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[Master Warder Z_]

So in truth butchering the Avvar is the same as butchering the mage.

A holy mandate.

Your giving them to creation and not the false demons that plague their minds.

Any culture that worships anything spirit is diseased.

[Addai]

Pfft defending the savages.

All of this has really done is reveal why Thedas needs an occasional purge.

Societies just get the strangest notions if you let them.

The mage-templar war, Breach and Orlesian civil war was a pretty good purge.

[Master Warder Z_]

The mage-templar war, Breach and Orlesian civil war was a pretty good purge.

Not for what you imply but yes.

Celene being dead is excellent, Fiona being dead is excellent, the mage rebellion getting crushed is excellent. And that idiot darkspawn finally being destroyed is excellent.

But it doesn't change overly much within regards to the savage.

[The Baconer]

Disregard the verbal sewage.

 

"Not forgotten. Forbidden. Darkspawn in the north, all of Orlais afraid. No one could know. Orlais must stand unstained, no fear to falter. 'For both our peoples'".

 

I wonder, why would Ameridan's disappearance be covered-up, especially by his bro Drakon and fellow Inquisitors/Seekers? Orlais didn't have time for fear, okay, but since the dragon disappeared along with Ameridan one could comfortably assume he died whilst slaying it. I feel like there's a lot more to gain by spinning a story like that than smothering it.

[Drasanil]

Disregard the verbal sewage.

 

"Not forgotten. Forbidden. Darkspawn in the north, all of Orlais afraid. No one could know. Orlais must stand unstained, no fear to falter. 'For both our peoples'".

 

I wonder, why would Ameridan's disappearance be covered-up, especially by his bro Drakon and fellow Inquisitors/Seekers? Orlais didn't have time for fear, okay, but since the dragon disappeared along with Ameridan one could comfortably assume he died whilst slaying it. I feel like there's a lot more to gain by spinning a story like that than smothering it.

 

If the Chantry wants elves to be faithful servants of the Maker, why do they keep pretending the best examples of Andrastian elves don't exist? 

 

The answer is probably the same for both, who ever's in charge of their public relations is rubbish.

[TK514]

Disregard the verbal sewage.
 
"Not forgotten. Forbidden. Darkspawn in the north, all of Orlais afraid. No one could know. Orlais must stand unstained, no fear to falter. 'For both our peoples'".
 
I wonder, why would Ameridan's disappearance be covered-up, especially by his bro Drakon and fellow Inquisitors/Seekers? Orlais didn't have time for fear, okay, but since the dragon disappeared along with Ameridan one could comfortably assume he died whilst slaying it. I feel like there's a lot more to gain by spinning a story like that than smothering it.

Probably less about covering up Ameridan than covering up the fact that the Avvar could summon demons into dragons and unleash them on an unsuspecting world. Not really the sort of thing you want hanging over you while fighting an already near insurmountable foe.

[The Baconer]

Probably less about covering up Ameridan than covering up the fact that the Avvar could summon demons into dragons and unleash them on an unsuspecting world. Not really the sort of thing you want hanging over you while fighting an already near insurmountable foe.

 

Yeah, but nobody needs to know that part, assuming that was even the reason.

[Master Warder Z_]

Cornelius Drebel?

[Delphine]

New Fanart batch:

 

Source: http://shalizeh7.tum...ana-feels-again

 

Source: http://swevenfox.tum...sed-and-kept-me

[Bad King]

Shall I speak to the primitive state of their legal system?  Their lack of long distance trade (that can be somewhat remedied through a war table mission), little to no central authority, no real evidence of agriculture or anything beyond subsistence hunting and gathering, no real stratification of society, not sure if they have a written langauge.

 

I'll ignore more western-centric models for civilization such as monumental architecture, conquest, and such

 

They are stratified into clans, trade with Orzammar and live in settled villages: they are at least pastoralists (who keep goats) if not cultivators and they do have a system of writing (using runes). Regardless, any discussion of what is civilised tends to be very subjective: it depends on what you prioritise as important to a society e.g it's often argued that the adoption of agriculture created many problems (such as overpopulation and malnutrition) in many societies and many societies that lack writing have better developed oral traditions which are in themselves highly complex. 

[Steelcan]

They are stratified into clans, trade with Orzammar and live in settled villages: they are at least pastoralists (who keep goats) if not cultivators and they do have a system of writing (using runes). Regardless, any discussion of what is civilised tends to be very subjective: it depends on what you prioritise as important to a society e.g it's often argued that the adoption of agriculture created many problems (such as overpopulation and malnutrition) in many societies and many societies that lack writing have better developed oral traditions which are in themselves highly complex. 

That's not social stratification, that organization into loose bands, that are fairly loose in terms of membership, their clans are at least somewhat only semi-permanent as we hear a lot about moving through the mountains.  I don't want to get into the finer details of how real life pastoralist societies (that aren't agrarian) cannot survive in permanent settlements.  Orzammar isn't exactly long distance by the standards of Thedas's trade infrastructure.

 

Agriculture may cause some issues like overpopulation and malnutrition, but those are actually less pronounced that is often believed. Agro-psatoralist societies are the best sutied to fluctuations in population and able to cover dietary needs much more effectively than a pastorlist society.

[Bad King]

That's not social stratification, that organization into loose bands, that are fairly loose in terms of membership, their clans are at least somewhat only semi-permanent as we hear a lot about moving through the mountains.  I don't want to get into the finer details of how real life pastoralist societies (that aren't agrarian) cannot survive in permanent settlements.  Orzammar isn't exactly long distance by the standards of Thedas's trade infrastructure.

 

Agriculture may cause some issues like overpopulation and malnutrition, but those are actually less pronounced that is often believed. Agro-psatoralist societies are the best sutied to fluctuations in population and able to cover dietary needs much more effectively than a pastorlist society.

 

The clans themselves are stratified with roles that appear to be ascribed on kinship or individual ability - this may be more fluid than Ferelden's stratification, but it's still there. Regarding them being 'semi-permanent', this doesn't mean that they have a simple material culture - Maric in The Calling notes that they are highly skilled masons and is impressed by their well built stone residences and statues (he notes that they aren't primitives). We don't have direct evidence that they cultivate, but it is probable that they engage in it when they can to fuel their settlements. Regardless, on the agriculture vs pastoralism or gathering argument, in many archaeological populations, population explosions and increased stratification due to agriculture has caused high levels of pathology and malnutrition when compared with earlier modes of production. The elites no doubt lives better lives but they were always a minority but for the rest of society, health conditions certainly got worse. Also, whether or not agro-pastoralism is better for survival than pastoralism is highly dependent on context e.g being fully pastoralist is more suitable in certain environments - if the Avvar are indeed predominantly pastoralist, then it's probably because they live in a harsh environment that makes cultivation difficult. From the codex entry on Avvar from DA:O:

 

Nothing lasts in the mountains. Wind and rain eventually eat away the strongest holds. Valleys that were arable one generation are locked in year-round ice the next. Game is constantly on the move.

 

I imagine that these are the reasons that the Frostbacks are largely uncolonised by Orlais and Ferelden - they're very difficult to live in for a society that has a mode of production that's based solely around agriculture. Regarding trade, I'd consider Orzammar as a very important centre as it produces some of the finest goods in Thedas and the Avvar's control of the trade routes to Orzammar no doubt gives them a large advantage as all of Thedas seeks to trade with the dwarves. In this respect, the Avvar are similar to central Asian groups that prospered from the Silk Road trade systems.

[Drasanil]

Here's a funny thought, pretty sure it hasn't been brought up before. So, why is Ameridan sporting tats? He pre-dates the fall of the dales and they were re-adopted by the Dalish post fall as a reminder of their heritage. 

[Bad King]

Here's a funny thought, pretty sure it hasn't been brought up before. So, why is Ameridan sporting tats? He pre-dates the fall of the dales and they were re-adopted by the Dalish post fall as a reminder of their heritage. 

 

I assumed that the Dalish adopted the tattoos prior to the fall of the Dales (when they were trying to revive aspects of their earlier civilisation).

[In Exile]

If the Chantry wants elves to be faithful servants of the Maker, why do they keep pretending the best examples of Andrastian elves don't exist? 

 

The answer is probably the same for both, who ever's in charge of their public relations is rubbish.

 

Because the old Chantry is culturally imperialistic, and an arm of the Orlesian state in a lot of important ways. You see Leliana most of all fight against this conception with her view that elves should be represented at all elves of the Southern Chantry, which they are not.

 

 

Here's a funny thought, pretty sure it hasn't been brought up before. So, why is Ameridan sporting tats? He pre-dates the fall of the dales and they were re-adopted by the Dalish post fall as a reminder of their heritage. 

 

It may be that the tattoo survived as a concept of religious devotion (which became universal after the fall of the Dales), which it kind of was back in the old days of the elves (but which, as Solas eventually reveals, is more complicated and closer to servitude).

[leaguer of one]

Here's a funny thought, pretty sure it hasn't been brought up before. So, why is Ameridan sporting tats? He pre-dates the fall of the dales and they were re-adopted by the Dalish post fall as a reminder of their heritage. 

The tat use is pre-fall of dales, not post.

[LOLandStuff]

Perhaps having tattoos was optional.

And after the Dales fell, the Dalish decided to wear them since they wouldn't submit to humans and their religion, and still hold on to their own culture.

 

But I'm sure it went something like this when a Dalish and templar met: "My god on my face. In your face."

[TEWR]

Here's a funny thought, pretty sure it hasn't been brought up before. So, why is Ameridan sporting tats? He pre-dates the fall of the dales and they were re-adopted by the Dalish post fall as a reminder of their heritage. 

 

Nowhere is it stated, far as I can recall, that the vallaslin was used solely after the Fall of the Dales.

 

What we do know is that they attribute to it a further act of defiance following the Fall of the Dales. That's a different matter. Considering the Imperium outlawed Elven beliefs and did their best to stamp it out, I'm certain the Elves would've held on to what little scraps they could and brought it together in Halamshiral to work with, vallaslin being one of them.

[Delphine]

New Ameridan&Telana fanart from Shalizeh:

 

Source: http://shalizeh7.tum...g-these-two-its

[jedidotflow]

In all seriousness, that is a revelation I am expecting.

 

Read this codex entry on Andruil. 
http://dragonage.wik...ven_God_Andruil

 

In short, Andruil reached the Void and brought back a plague (the Blight) with her.

[Bad King]

Read this codex entry on Andruil. 
http://dragonage.wik...ven_God_Andruil

 

In short, Andruil reached the Void and brought back a plague (the Blight) with her.

 

Which suggests to me that the Forgotten Ones are the creators of the taint and the ones that blackened the Golden City. Andruil's void armour is reminiscent of Samson's red lyrium armour (which is itself tainted lyrium) and seeing as we discovered tainted lyrium in the Deep Roads in DA2, I'm inclined to believe that the Void /Forgotten Ones and the Primeval Thaig (and its denizens) are connected.

[In Exile]

Which suggests to me that the Forgotten Ones are the creators of the taint and the ones that blackened the Golden City. Andruil's void armour is reminiscent of Samson's red lyrium armour (which is itself tainted lyrium) and seeing as we discovered tainted lyrium in the Deep Roads in DA2, I'm inclined to believe that the Void /Forgotten Ones and the Primeval Thaig (and its denizens) are connected.

 

Remember, though, that the Veil seems to be artificial and (based on what Solas implies) the Fade wasn't always a physical place. I think the better guess is that what we think of as the "Fade" is as much as an artificially created realm as the "Crossroads" (since we know elves can invent realities wholesale).

 

The physical Fade is a mostly empty ether with actual physical rocks and ruins in it. That looks a lot like an artificially created realm that had plots of land thrown up into it (like, say, Corypheus created using a stolen elven orb; the parallels in the final battle are clearly intentional here, IMO). 

 

If the myth around Solas is inaccurate both not wrong (e.g. he did seal away the gods, just not quite as the Dalish think) then he's on OK terms with the Forgotten Ones. There's only one type of entity we see Solas befriending besides the gods that he trapped away: spirits. The Forgotten Ones in Dalish myth, IMO, a powerful spirits. 

[Gervaise]

Getting back to Inquisitor Ameridan, there seem similarities between his story and that of Shartan in the way the Chantry airbrushed him from history for political reasons.   The fact that he could show respect to both Andraste/the Maker and the elven gods also makes me wonder anew about Shartan.    The Chantry grudgingly acknowledge him as a disciple of Andraste/Maker but was he?    Did he honour the elven gods or did their worship only resume after the restoration of the Dales?    His shade in Origins has no facial tattoos but that may be an oversight.   I also wonder about Andraste herself.    She was said to have originally been thought too delicate to bear Maferath's children.   Could this have been because she was an elf?  

 

Did anyone else do that war table mission concerning his descendants?    On the one hand there were human nobles claiming they came from his line.   On the other were a clan of elves who claimed (justifiable it would seem) that he was from their clan but whose claim had always been dismissed by the humans.    This brings me to another thing that has bothered me in the past about Shartan.    It would seem that both he and Ameridan were genuine elven heroes, who worked with their humans neighbours to rid the land of evil that threatened both their peoples,  yet the Dalish seem to give more weight to the stories of their gods than these historical figures.    Are the Dalish Keepers (who descend from the priesthood in the Dales) actually guilty of similar prejudice to the Chantry?    They are so keen to perpetuate the hatred and mistrust of humans, they don't wish to admit that their two greatest heroes were actually on good terms with them and may even have worshipped gods other than their own.

 

Ameridan mentions that there was already a movement afoot in the Dales towards greater isolationism and that they were advocating withholding support from the battle against the Blight, which we know ultimately won the day and worsened relations with Orlais.    Ameridan had spoken out against this.    A horde of barbarians with a dragon at their head would have been just as much a threat to the elven Dales as it was to Orlais; more so in fact since they would have to cross the Dales to get there.   So Ameridan was protecting his homeland as much as Orlais and thus you would think the elves would be interested in finding out what happened to him.   Since they were not being distracted by fighting the Blight, as Drakon was, why did they not do so?      It would seem his enemies among the priesthood of the Dales found it expedient not to take too much interest on what became of him because it suited their political ideals.     Since at least his own clan remembered their connection to him with pride, I wonder just how much division there was among the elves.    Some Chantry historians claim the Exalted March was only called after the elves sacked Montsimmard and were threatening Val Royeaux itself; why were the elves so far out of their own territory?    Did all the elves of the Dales really approve of this action?   It would seem that moderate elves, like Ameridan, who advocated good relations with their neighbours and clearly did not feel threatened by the Chantry, at some point were ousted from positions of influence by more radical and aggressive factions.    It is one thing guarding your borders from intrusion; quite another to actually attack your human neighbours and hope their weakness from the Blight and poor relations with the other humans would guarantee success.      I feel there is still more history of what happened at that time that is still to come to light.

[dragonflight288]

Just finished the DLC. 

 

I have to say I like Ameridan, but what I took most out of the DLC, since I had Cassandra with me the most during it, is Ameridan and Cassandra talking about the Seekers and her surprise that the head of the Seekers was potentially a mage, and he corrects that bit of history in that he wasn't a Seeker but worked closely with them.

 

Another thing that I took out of it was that the Rite of Tranquility was never, ever meant to be used as a punishment, or even applied permanently. When Cassandra brought it up and how mages are made tranquil permanently, he angrily lashes out at the Seekers of his time, saying they had promised him that tranquility would never be used that way, they would make sure it was never abused. 

 

Add in that Emperor Drakon's best friend was an elven mage, something that history and the Chantry wiped out so thoroughly that all information regarding Inquisitor Ameridan is now completely false. I liked the professor's reaction when he found out. "I will either be famous or be beheaded," because the information, the truth, goes so far against chantry teachings and propaganda.

 

Drakon, someone in Chantry history held almost as much regard as Andraste, best friends with an elven mage who was also the head of the Inquisition, most certainly calls into question many of the Chantry's teachings on elves and the place they hold in society. Even Giselle says that it's taught that elves are believed to have turned further from the Maker as humans and that's why can't be priests. 

 

There's a lot to take in about this DLC, but I think I like Inquisitor Ameridan. I like the armor my Inquisitor was wearing better than his though. Shame I can't upload it from xbox one. I'll try to take a picture on my phone and upload it that way.

[Patchwork]

Getting back to Inquisitor Ameridan, there seem similarities between his story and that of Shartan in the way the Chantry airbrushed him from history for political reasons.   The fact that he could show respect to both Andraste/the Maker and the elven gods also makes me wonder anew about Shartan.    The Chantry grudgingly acknowledge him as a disciple of Andraste/Maker but was he?    Did he honour the elven gods or did their worship only resume after the restoration of the Dales?    His shade in Origins has no facial tattoos but that may be an oversight.   I also wonder about Andraste herself.    She was said to have originally been thought too delicate to bear Maferath's children.   Could this have been because she was an elf?  

 

 

I'm not sure who Tevinter was worshipping at that point in their history but it makes sense, to me at least given how long it's been since Arlathan fell, that the enslaved elves would follow the same religion albeit with a few half remembered traditions from Elvhenan still observed. A lot like modern City Elves.