Did you read the post I was responding to?
Yes. And do agree with In Exile that the Dalish's nomadic lifestyle was never the end goal for their people because, well, the Dalish flat out tell us that they want a homeland again instead of continuing their constant wandering. And like I said, I don't see how moving forward, or you know, actually achieving their stated goal has anything to do with being forced to embrace Andrastianism.
the point------------------you
The point is, you decided to do some bashing because you're bitter some elf guy doesn't worship just his people's gods.
Great. Do we get to meet any of them?
Yep. His name's Ameridan. Wore the vallaslin and worshiped the Creators. Just because he revered the Maker as well doesn't make him any less Dalish or a follower of the elven pantheon. Besides, as far as we know the Dalish religion doesn't hold that their aren't any gods outside of their pantheon. Ameridan could of easily just include the Maker in a group of gods he believed in.
No one said anything about being forced, except the writers forcing it on characters.Yes. And do agree with In Exile that the Dalish's nomadic lifestyle was never the end goal for their people because, well, the Dalish flat out tell us that they want a homeland again instead of continuing their constant wandering. And like I said, I don't see how moving forward, or you know, actually achieving their stated goal has anything to do with being forced to embrace Andrastianism.
Bollocks.Yep. His name's Ameridan. Wore the vallaslin and worshiped the Creators. Just because he revered the Maker as well doesn't make any less Dalish or a follower of the elven pantheon.
Great. Do we get to meet any of them?
Bollocks.
So, he's not really Dalish because he decided to include another god into his beliefs. I see. Regardless, of the fact that the Dalish have never outright stated that they believe that the Maker doesn't exist. Alright. I suppose Ameridan's no true scotsman as well.
He's a syncretist. That's not representative of traditional elven belief- obviously. Apparently Bioware thinks we can't relate to a hero that's not Andrastian. I didn't really go along with those who were upset about elven beliefs being crapped on in the main game, but it's starting to annoy me, too.So, he's not really Dalish because he decided to include another god into his beliefs. I see. Regardless, of the fact that the Dalish have never outright stated that they believe that the Maker doesn't exist. Alright. I suppose Ameridan no true scotsman as well.
So, he's not really Dalish because he decided to include another god into his beliefs. I see. Regardless, of the fact that the Dalish have never outright stated that they believe that the Maker doesn't exist. Alright. I suppose Ameridan no true scotsman as well.
Exactly, who says that the Maker can't fit into the Elven Pantheon or that some Dalish might chose to meld the two faiths like Ameridan did?
Look at the Avvar for instance? One of the codex entries mentions how mortified an Andrastian soldier was to realise that her Avvar friend was under the impression that the Maker is probably just another powerful God-spirit like the many in their own Pantheon? Which could even be true, for all we know?
Couple that with how the Dalish pantheon has both the Forgotten and Forbidden Ones as minor dieties outside of the Creators, as well as Fen'Harel who seems not to fall into any particular group in their pantheon, it's not out of the question that the Maker could easily be one of these minor figures?
Or, perhaps Ameridan didn't worship the Maker at all.. but simply respected the religion of Drakon because of their friendship?
He's a syncretist. That's not representative of traditional elven belief- obviously. Apparently Bioware thinks we can't relate to a hero that's not Andrastian. I didn't really go along with those who were upset about elven beliefs being crapped on in the main game, but it's starting to annoy me, too.
It is not representative of traditional elven belief? Were does it say in Dalish religion that the adoption of another deity in their pantheon is forbidden? And Bioware must think we can relate to a hero who isn't Andrastian if its willing to include companions like Velanna, Merrill, Oghren, Solas, Iron Bull, etc, along with having the choice to play a PC that's a follower of the Stone, the Creators or just an atheist.
Or, perhaps Ameridan didn't worship the Maker at all.. but simply respected the religion of Drakon because of their friendship?
I agree with the rest of your post, entirely. However, if he didn't worship the Maker, why make a shrine to Andraste/the Maker that likely no one would ever see or know was made by him?
So the first Inquisitor is an Andrastian Elf ? His name is Ameridan.
His tale is tragic but in an interesting way. He is like a playable character that we never played. He did good, had a love interest, had a four member party consisting of different races and different classes.
I am pleasantly surprised.I wonder why no one has mentioned this before though. I mean in Origins, Garahel was known and since Elven heroes are not very common in Thedas, you would have thought that they would have mentioned this guy's name since he led the first Inquisition.
Btw, I hope Kenric gets the truth out about Ameridan without being assassinated or beheaded. Academics have to stand up for truths, it is part of our job (I am a grad student) and to face potential beheading for that...well, let's hope that does not happen)
Who wants to behead a valued member of the Inquistion? 
I agree with the rest of your post, entirely. However, if he didn't worship the Maker, why make a shrine to Andraste/the Maker that likely no one would ever see or know was made by him?
Well, the statue is of Andraste who was a major figure in helping the Elves gain their freedom and whom we've seen that some Dalish do have a lot of respect for (Velanna admires her, despite having disliking humans completely), so it could have been a nice little compromise that melded the two faiths? Humans see the shrine and see it representing one thing, elves see it and see another?
Or perhaps it was Telana who worshipped the Maker and Andraste and he was honouring her faith? Supposedly during his lifetime there were Elves who had converted to Andrastianism, which was putting the traditionalist elves on edge? So when a generation later, one of their hunters ran off to elope with a human at Red Crossing, they assumed he was coverting... and calamity ensued?
Or like our Inquisitor, regardless of their own race and religion, they are seen as a figure of the Chantry so can decide to simply roll with it? The two little figures on a statue of Andraste were just Ameridan's little nod at his own heritage or beliefs?
It is not representative of traditional elven belief? Were does it say in Dalish religion that the adoption of another deity in their pantheon is forbidden? And Bioware must think we can relate to a hero who isn't Andrastian if its willing to include companions like Velanna, Merrill, Oghren, Solas, Iron Bull, etc, along with having the choice to play a PC that's a follower of the Stone, the Creators or just an atheist.
That's not quite the problem. The problem is one with image: there aren't any major heroes out there who deny the Maker, and I actually consider that more important than honoring the Creators (given that the Creators now appear utterly worthless).
Guest_Faerunner_*
Exactly, who says that the Maker can't fit into the Elven Pantheon or that some Dalish might chose to meld the two faiths like Ameridan did?
All things being equal, there wouldn't be a problem. But it's not equal.
First, how many Andrastian humans are interested in fitting the Elven Pantheon to their worship of the Maker? None. How many Andrastian humans choose to meld the two faiths the way they might expect the elves to do? None. So why should the elves do it when humans won't show the same courtesy?
Second, the Andrastian religion runs on the core ideal that only their religion and their god is "true," while all other religions and gods are "fake."
Quoth the Canticles of Light:
"As there is but one world,
One life, one death, there is
But one god, and He is our Maker.
They are sinners, who have given their love
To false gods."
EDIT: And then turn around and tell another people, "And there is not room among your gods for one more?"
There is something inherently unequal in a religion that says, "I don't have to compromise on my beliefs, but you do. I don't have to add any other gods to my list of worship, but you have to add mine." How long before they try to phase the others out? How soon before, "Why don't you add my god to your list of gods?" becomes, "Why don't you worship my god instead of yours?"
Once humans start making room for other gods in their roster of worship, I'll be okay with the Dalish doing so for them.
It is not representative of traditional elven belief? Were does it say in Dalish religion that the adoption of another deity in their pantheon is forbidden? And Bioware must think we can relate to a hero who isn't Andrastian if its willing to include companions like Velanna, Merrill, Oghren, Solas, Iron Bull, etc, along with having the choice to play a PC that's a follower of the Stone, the Creators or just an atheist.
I don't care about American... uh, I mean Ameridan, lolol, but seriously? Quit playing stupid.
A Christian wouldn't adopt the belief of Allah as well, and if they do, they're not really Christian. It's pretty much the same difference. He's Dalish culturally, yes, but don't act like you can't tell the difference between a Dalish who sticks to his elven gods and one that sings koombayah and believes in the Maker as well.
I for one like that this is an idea getting more traction, but not really from the dalish first inquisitor... Corny.
That said, this works pretty well for my particular Inquisitor considering my background. Very well in fact.
I don't care about American... uh, I mean Ameridan, lolol, but seriously? Quit playing stupid.
A Christian wouldn't adopt the belief of Allah as well, and if they do, they're not really Christian. It's pretty much the same difference. He's Dalish culturally, yes, but don't act like you can't tell the difference between a Dalish who sticks to his elven gods and one that sings koombayah and believes in the Maker as well.
I for one like that this is an idea getting more traction, but not really from the dalish first inquisitor... Corny.
That said, this works pretty well for my particular Inquisitor considering my background. Very well in fact.
Well... actually, an Arabic Christian would indeed adopt the belief of Allah, because "Allah" is just Arabic for "God."
A Christian wouldn't adopt the belief of Allah as well, and if they do, they're not really Christian. It's pretty much the same difference. He's Dalish culturally, yes, but don't act like you can't tell the difference between a Dalish who sticks to his elven gods and one that sings koombayah and believes in the Maker as well.
I don't sincerely think you can make that call, particularly since you have not seen anything that disproves that one can believe in both Maker and Creators, and still be fully Dalish.
All things being equal, there wouldn't be a problem. But it's not equal.
First, how many Andrastian humans are interested in fitting the Elven Pantheon to their worship of the Maker? None.
Where'd you get the silly idea anything had to be equal first of all.
Second, Mother Giselle actually.
Well... actually, an Arabic Christian would indeed adopt the belief of Allah, because "Allah" is just Arabic for "God."
No, that's a silly idea. The translation to the name is the same but it is not the same god, hence different religions. It's called Christianity for a reason. Christ. Son of God. They're not the same.
Where'd you get the silly idea anything had to be equal first of all.
Second, Mother Giselle actually.
Giselle never says anything of the sort.
I don't sincerely think you can make that call, particularly since you have not seen anything that disproves that one can believe in both Maker and Creators, and still be fully Dalish.
Varric is kinda Andrastian and believes in the Stone occasionally
No, that's a silly idea. The translation to the name is the same but it is not the same god, hence different religions.
its the same God as the other Abrahamic ones
I don't sincerely think you can make that call, particularly since you have not seen anything that disproves that one can believe in both Maker and Creators, and still be fully Dalish.
I made the call and I stick with it. It's not the same, no one's ever given a hint it would be. If it were, they'd barely have a reason to be isolated.
Giselle never says anything of the sort.
Yea she does actually, she suggests the possibility that their gods also exist right after the mission.
Yea she does actually, she suggests the possibility that their gods also exist right after the mission.
make them a Saint or something, worked for the Catholics pretty well
Retour en haut