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Jaws of Hakkon: very disappointed


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#1
Kulyok

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(trying not to spoil the story, but I will be mentioning some general points about people you meet and such)

 

Dragon Age Origins was supposed to have one more origin - Avvar barbarians. Having never seen any of it, I was still relieved we never got that stuff in the first Dragon Age game, because something told me that whatever it would be, it wouldn't be good.

 

Aaand now that we've got it in Jaws of Hakkon, I hope to honestly never, ever, EVER see it again.

 

I am no big expert on Scandinavian/Norse/Yakut/Sakha mythology, but I'm fairly certain there got to be more to barbarians than "Hi! We're good barbarians! Here, have a fetch quest!" and "Raaaaagh! We be BAD, BAD barbarians! We be killing you!" and obligatory mentions of goat ****. Seriously, what gives?

 

(Even Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter wasn't That Bad. There, I said it.)

 

In short, both Avvar factions you're meeting, Good Barbarians and Bad Barbarians, are as shallow and cliche as you going to get.

 

You think I'm exaggerating? Well, look at the dialogue:

 

- Hello, I'm the local scald, when I finally think of a great song, I'll get a great name!

 

- Hello, I'm the local shaman, I'm appeasing local spirits, because we treat spirits like gods! Hint, hint, hint, hint, hint, HINT - repeat the line about spirits and gods four or five times in the dialogue until Solas finally interjects.

 

- Hello, I'm the local huntmaster, and whatever you are going to say, I'm going to be offended, because Barbarian Tradition! And then I'll wish you good luck and send you on a fetch quest.

 

Seriously, folks? I never thought I was going to miss that Dalish clan in the Exalted Plains. (I don't. I think the Dalish clan in Origins was much more interesting. But compared to those barbarians, I'd take anything).

 

I'm unpleasantly reminded of the worst parts of the Heart of Winter. The parts where you endlessly trudge along paths and corridors to meet Yet Another Quest Giver from the club of Nobody Cares.

 

GOOD NEWS: you're going to get splendid vistas.

 

BAD NEWS: you're not going to get story there. Not "enough story"(well, obviously, seeing how you get an area with 26 regions and plenty of empty space), and not "good story".

 

Because here's what you're going to get as "story/dialogue/fun stuff":

 

- First of all, we meet Scout Harding. Yay! And she gets lots of new dialogue! Yay? Well.. yay and nay. She gets a lovely bit of dialogue about treehouses, but in truth, you might be very disappointed, since the majority of Harding's new dialogue is going to be about "how's your father and mother, where did you study to shoot your bow, what do you think of our main quest progress".

 

It's not going to be interesting like Dagna's relationship to her father, or Solas learning about spirits, or Cassandra talking to you about the future of the chantry. Mostly, Scout Harding's dialogue is generic and makes you want to tear your hair out at the thought that all this word budget was spent for boring, boring, boring lines.

 

- Now, the more important part: the quest-giver, the guy who gives you quests, and provides interesting information. BAD NEWS: he looks like your average Requisition Officer, only male; his dialogue is hardly better that that of Professor Frederic of Serault from the Western Approach, and he keeps dreaming about "Lady Harding" all the time.

 

Honestly, I was really sad about that, because quest-givers could be great people - Enchanter Orsino, Commander Cullen(in DA2), Zathrian, King Bhelen, Duncan and Morrigan(in DAI) were all great quest-givers. I think it would've been great to get someone interesting, or maybe even an old face, given that many non-party members from Origins and DA2 are still alive. We could even get Leliana or Cullen or Josephine overseeing the operation. Or Cassandra! The Seekers are her thing, after all.

 

But no, instead we get a Generic Guy telling us Generic Lines that, yeah, the University of Orlais is okay, the weather's fine, and it's Very Important To Find Out whether The First Inquisitor preferred his toast done on one side or both... sorry, I meant to say, whether he was a loyal servant to Orlais or not.

 

(Why was it meant to be important? I'm afraid I do not care either way. I care about what sort of person the First Inquisitor was, what he was doing there, what he wanted from the Inquisition and the Seekers, I care about the woman he loved. But Orlais? Nah.)

 

You do get a promise of a very beautiful love story between the First Inquisitor and his love. And I was immediately jumping at it, hoping I'd get a few lines with my love interest/party members about it, and maybe that his love was a goddess and the story of DAI would be mirrored in the past, or maybe there would be a beautiful tale of star-crossed lovers...

 

Ha. No.

 

What you get is a side-quest when you get to a small island and get one short conversation with a spirit in the very beginning of the DLC, so you aren't even kept hanging in suspense. And that's it, the love story ends. Honestly, the Cloakwood side-quest with a Spirit of Command was better.

 

I love Dragon Age games, and I'm happy to get new DLC, but one thing I'm very disappointed and sad about is bad story. You can live with empty spaces, but you can't live without interesting adventures.

 

As for party members, you get one or two obligatory interjections "Hey, we're approaching the village the quest-giver told us about", and "Oh, yes, spirits, Solas, please interject here", but I'm afraid that's it.

 

My advice would be waiting until it's on sale - I'm not sure it's worth the same amount as Citadel DLC. Far from it.

 

 

 

Ah, and completely forgot to mention: that Level 20 requirement? Don't pay attention to it. My level 11 Knight-Enchanter killed everything but the rift monsters and Fade-touched beasts, and advanced to level 15 very quickly. Also, there's plenty of Silverite, Everite and such. You will also get new schematics - if you're content to pay 16k for each, of course.


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#2
Kendar Fleetfoot

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Well in Australia it is for sale for $25 which IMHO is way too expensive, so I am guessing I won't be getting the DLC any time soon based on your comments!!! Sad  :(



#3
Melca36

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(trying not to spoil the story, but I will be mentioning some general points about people you meet and such)

 

Dragon Age Origins was supposed to have one more origin - Avvar barbarians. Having never seen any of it, I was still relieved we never got that stuff in the first Dragon Age game, because something told me that whatever it would be, it wouldn't be good.

 

Aaand now that we've got it in Jaws of Hakkon, I hope to honestly never, ever, EVER see it again.

 

I am no big expert on Scandinavian/Norse/Yakut/Sakha mythology, but I'm fairly certain there got to be more to barbarians than "Hi! We're good barbarians! Here, have a fetch quest!" and "Raaaaagh! We be BAD, BAD barbarians! We be killing you!" and obligatory mentions of goat ****. Seriously, what gives?

 

(Even Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter wasn't That Bad. There, I said it.)

 

In short, both Avvar factions you're meeting, Good Barbarians and Bad Barbarians, are as shallow and cliche as you going to get.

 

You think I'm exaggerating? Well, look at the dialogue:

 

- Hello, I'm the local scald, when I finally think of a great song, I'll get a great name!

 

- Hello, I'm the local shaman, I'm appeasing local spirits, because we treat spirits like gods! Hint, hint, hint, hint, hint, HINT - repeat the line about spirits and gods four or five times in the dialogue until Solas finally interjects.

 

- Hello, I'm the local huntmaster, and whatever you are going to say, I'm going to be offended, because Barbarian Tradition! And then I'll wish you good luck and send you on a fetch quest.

 

Seriously, folks? I never thought I was going to miss that Dalish clan in the Exalted Plains. (I don't. I think the Dalish clan in Origins was much more interesting. But compared to those barbarians, I'd take anything).

 

I'm unpleasantly reminded of the worst parts of the Heart of Winter. The parts where you endlessly trudge along paths and corridors to meet Yet Another Quest Giver from the club of Nobody Cares.

 

GOOD NEWS: you're going to get splendid vistas.

 

BAD NEWS: you're not going to get story there. Not "enough story"(well, obviously, seeing how you get an area with 26 regions and plenty of empty space), and not "good story".

 

Because here's what you're going to get as "story/dialogue/fun stuff":

 

- First of all, we meet Scout Harding. Yay! And she gets lots of new dialogue! Yay? Well.. yay and nay. She gets a lovely bit of dialogue about treehouses, but in truth, you might be very disappointed, since the majority of Harding's new dialogue is going to be about "how's your father and mother, where did you study to shoot your bow, what do you think of our main quest progress".

 

It's not going to be interesting like Dagna's relationship to her father, or Solas learning about spirits, or Cassandra talking to you about the future of the chantry. Mostly, Scout Harding's dialogue is generic and makes you want to tear your hair out at the thought that all this word budget was spent for boring, boring, boring lines.

 

- Now, the more important part: the quest-giver, the guy who gives you quests, and provides interesting information. BAD NEWS: he looks like your average Requisition Officer, only male; his dialogue is hardly better that that of Professor Frederic of Serault from the Western Approach, and he keeps dreaming about "Lady Harding" all the time.

 

Honestly, I was really sad about that, because quest-givers could be great people - Enchanter Orsino, Commander Cullen(in DA2), Zathrian, King Bhelen, Duncan and Morrigan(in DAI) were all great quest-givers. I think it would've been great to get someone interesting, or maybe even an old face, given that many non-party members from Origins and DA2 are still alive. We could even get Leliana or Cullen or Josephine overseeing the operation. Or Cassandra! The Seekers are her thing, after all.

 

But no, instead we get a Generic Guy telling us Generic Lines that, yeah, the University of Orlais is okay, the weather's fine, and it's Very Important To Find Out whether The First Inquisitor preferred his toast done on one side or both... sorry, I meant to say, whether he was a loyal servant to Orlais or not.

 

(Why was it meant to be important? I'm afraid I do not care either way. I care about what sort of person the First Inquisitor was, what he was doing there, what he wanted from the Inquisition and the Seekers, I care about the woman he loved. But Orlais? Nah.)

 

You do get a promise of a very beautiful love story between the First Inquisitor and his love. And I was immediately jumping at it, hoping I'd get a few lines with my love interest/party members about it, and maybe that his love was a goddess and the story of DAI would be mirrored in the past, or maybe there would be a beautiful tale of star-crossed lovers...

 

Ha. No.

 

What you get is a side-quest when you get to a small island and get one short conversation with a spirit in the very beginning of the DLC, so you aren't even kept hanging in suspense. And that's it, the love story ends. Honestly, the Cloakwood side-quest with a Spirit of Command was better.

 

I love Dragon Age games, and I'm happy to get new DLC, but one thing I'm very disappointed and sad about is bad story. You can live with empty spaces, but you can't live without interesting adventures.

 

As for party members, you get one or two obligatory interjections "Hey, we're approaching the village the quest-giver told us about", and "Oh, yes, spirits, Solas, please interject here", but I'm afraid that's it.

 

My advice would be waiting until it's on sale - I'm not sure it's worth the same amount as Citadel DLC. Far from it.

 

 

 

Ah, and completely forgot to mention: that Level 20 requirement? Don't pay attention to it. My level 11 Knight-Enchanter killed everything but the rift monsters and Fade-touched beasts, and advanced to level 15 very quickly. Also, there's plenty of Silverite, Everite and such. You will also get new schematics - if you're content to pay 16k for each, of course.

 

Sorry I had my ass handed to me on hard with a level 16 so I don't believe you.   And I got plenty of schematics from chests. So please don't lie. There are other means than just buying them


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#4
Kulyok

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Sorry I had my ass handed to me on hard with a level 16 so I don't believe you.   And I got plenty of schematics from chests. So please don't lie. There are other means than just buying them

 

There's a difference between "chests" and "shop" schematics:

- you get tier 3 schematics from various chests, normal-loking ones(and it may be your good luck and my bad luck, but I only got one or two);

- the expensive ones are special(blue-gold ones), tier 4;

- Sorry, but I think you're being unnecessarily rude with the "don't lie" accusations. I've finished one run on Nightmare mode, now I'm playing on casual, and yes, level 11 Knight-Enchanter is doable, just don't reduce your threat level and get at least a Tier 2 crafted weapon. Those level 20 monsters and barbarians are easy on casual, I kid you not.


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#5
hobbit of the shire

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Thanks for your great review.  Looks like I won't be getting this or waiting till (if) it all comes out as an ultimate pack.  I'm still trying to finish the vanilla game.  Being a completionist is a bad thing.  I have been trying to complete all sidequests for like a month before doing the final end quest.  The thought of another fetch area just....  The topic of the DLC doesn't sound that interesting as I suppose my character is still thinking the Inquisitor is just a figurehead, that she could be a badass mercenary with a mark on her hand and still do what she needs to do.  The Quizzy baggage is just so that the rest of the idiots in Thedas has a reason to join the cause.  So my quizzy doesn't particularly care about her predecessor.  Maybe when I roll another character, their viewpoint (and thus mine) will change.

 

I'd like to have a story-driven DLC which has consequences on this game and DA4.  Perhaps in a city (sooo sick of the wilderness).  About the companions.  Playing as the companion.  Meeting a new companion.  Playing something that extends past the maingame timeline.  Lots of cutscenes and banter.  I hope one day they bring back expansions.  I'd sink good money into an Awakening-type expansion.  Or even something like Witch Hunt, Leliana's backstory (forgot the name) or Legacy.  The hard part of creating the game is done, so one could realistically make a whole expansion and charge full or near-full game price with much less overhead.  Is the age of full expansions over?  Are we just going to get a bunch of mini-DLCs?  Anyway, just rambling....



#6
Uccio

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Le me guess, still had that 3 + enemies rehash + dogs and bears? And giant humans? How about giant dwarfs?



#7
Rawgrim

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Le me guess, still had that 3 + enemies rehash + dogs and bears? And giant humans? How about giant dwarfs?

 

The giant humans in it had about 10 times and much HP as the Arishok had. Not my favorite enemy in the dlc.



#8
Dracon525

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I may have just not seen stuff, but was there even any advertisement of this DLC? I just saw a whole bunch of "AH! TRAILER TOMORROW!" stuff, yet people were already playing it?!?
 

Doesnt sound interesting at all to me, honestly. Though neither does the main game (still haveyet to do final quests).



#9
Kulyok

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I may have just not seen stuff, but was there even any advertisement of this DLC? I just saw a whole bunch of "AH! TRAILER TOMORROW!" stuff, yet people were already playing it?!?

 

No indeed. It was announced on Twitter a day ago, and then the media picked the news.

 

I accidentally clicked on the forums yesterday, and people were all excited and talking about the DLC. "WHAT?" I thought, and went to read PatrickWeekes's Twitter and DavidGaider's Twitter. Not a word. Then I went looking around - nothing. I got home, ran Origin - nothing. People were already playing, and it wasn't available on Origin - it was very frustrating. Fortunately, in an hour or two(19.00 Moscow time yesterday, I think) the DLC became available, I loaded it and started playing.

 

Really, I wish they told us in advance. Then people would have time to prepare and lower their expectations: we'd know it would be about the barbarians, there would be no Solas/Flemeth resolution, no interaction with companions, no romance, it would be just another big area(but with fetch quests given via a few dialogue lines, not via codex entries). Then maybe people would be more prepared and less disappointed.


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#10
wepeel_

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I actually prefer the way of just releasing content without attempting to build hype ahead of time. When paid-for content is announced, it tends to be in the form of marketing to get people to buy it, rather than the form of unbiased information. So even if it had been announced a month ago, it's unlikely the period from then until release would have allowed anyone to do much in the way of preparation. 

 

Much better to have it appear "out of the blue". That way you won't have had to invest/waste time and effort on speculation and anticipation, and since it's already out you can get (relatively) unbiased reviews of it very shortly, likely to provide you with much more useful information than a trailer and the standard infomercial product text.


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#11
berelinde

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Yeah, the way I see it, this new DLC would have to be something *really* special for me to give up using mods for it, and it isn't. I'm a sucker for scenery, but I've got the Emprise du Lion and the Emerald Graves for that.

 

It's a shame, too. I was really looking forward to an Avvar-centric story.



#12
Nefla

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I actually prefer the way of just releasing content without attempting to build hype ahead of time. When paid-for content is announced, it tends to be in the form of marketing to get people to buy it, rather than the form of unbiased information. So even if it had been announced a month ago, it's unlikely the period from then until release would have allowed anyone to do much in the way of preparation. 

 

Much better to have it appear "out of the blue". That way you won't have had to invest/waste time and effort on speculation and anticipation, and since it's already out you can get (relatively) unbiased reviews of it very shortly, likely to provide you with much more useful information than a trailer and the standard infomercial product text.

I prefer it too actually. You don't have time to get your hopes up and can watch people's LP the next day and decide if you want it or not.


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#13
Sartoz

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Sorry I had my ass handed to me on hard with a level 16 so I don't believe you.   And I got plenty of schematics from chests. So please don't lie. There are other means than just buying them

Combat ability is relative. Some get their ass handed to them on easy. Other have no problems on hard.  


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#14
Dai Grepher

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What if the game has been completed already? Is the DLC consistent with the current world state in that case? Does the adventure make sense in that context?



#15
SomeoneStoleMyName

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Let me guess no new interesting or awesome armors, headgear or weapons either?

DA:I Failed utterly on giving me that dark fantasy feel of DA:O. And now a DLC with the Boyscout-Hollywood Inquisitor continuing the black and white crusade vs cliche good vs bad barbs adventure? Poorly written story and characters doesent surprise me after how they handled the Corypheus storyline. Was good til haven.

Guess I'll wait for Witcher 3. 


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#16
Namea

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What if the game has been completed already? Is the DLC consistent with the current world state in that case? Does the adventure make sense in that context?

 

Yes, it still makes sense and there are lines about it if you finished the game. 

I somewhat liked the DLC but I do agree that it was a little bland. I only bought it because I already had 10 bucks in my EA wallet so I was only spending 5 on it. The new lore on the Avaar was interesting to know and the new fade-touched creatures was a cool addition. Otherwise...I dunno. I just wasn't feeling it. It was more endless quests with seemingly little real importance or story significance. 


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#17
DomeWing333

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- Sorry, but I think you're being unnecessarily rude with the "don't lie" accusations. I've finished one run on Nightmare mode, now I'm playing on casual, and yes, level 11 Knight-Enchanter is doable, just don't reduce your threat level and get at least a Tier 2 crafted weapon. Those level 20 monsters and barbarians are easy on casual, I kid you not.

Everything is easy on Casual. That's why it's called Casual. And that goes double when rolling with a KE. So it's pretty disingenuous to use that kind of play experience to tell people not to pay attention to the level requirement without any sort of disclaimer.


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#18
Dubya75

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Wait, WHAT??? Not much story content? Bad dialogue? Boring? But....this is BIOWARE! Oh.... LOL


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#19
Amaldur1

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Thank you for the excellent and detailed review. The odd thing to me is that BW/EA clearly have heard that the people want story and chacacter. I just read an article this morning where a dev went on about how those were the important things. But yet, they just don't seem to be able to actually produce those any compelling story or character interaction. It's all one liners and generic. It's almost like they don't understand what those terms mean.



#20
berelinde

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You do get a promise of a very beautiful love story between the First Inquisitor and his love. And I was immediately jumping at it, hoping I'd get a few lines with my love interest/party members about it, and maybe that his love was a goddess and the story of DAI would be mirrored in the past, or maybe there would be a beautiful tale of star-crossed lovers...

 

Ha. No.

 

What you get is a side-quest when you get to a small island and get one short conversation with a spirit in the very beginning of the DLC, so you aren't even kept hanging in suspense. And that's it, the love story ends. Honestly, the Cloakwood side-quest with a Spirit of Command was better.

 

Cloakwood? We're a long way from the Sword Coast.

 

Pity about the love story being a bust, though.



#21
Kulyok

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Crestwood - my head's not completely in the game at 9am. The side-quests do look a bit, well, _too simple_, though: find the girl who's fighting the bad beast, kill the bad beast, watch the girl thank you and pray to the spirits(naturally!), get XP, go home. Find the good beast tormented by bad cultists, kill the bad cultists, free the good beast, get XP, go home.

 

 

 

There's another parallel I wanted to mention: in this DLC you're trying to find the First Inquisitor, and naturally, you learn that he had companions. That could be a brilliant opportunity to empathize, to draw parallels between those companions and yours. If you played Mass Effect 3 with Javik as a companion, you probably remember the highly emotional scene when Javik tells Commander Shepard about the fate of his comrades, and, well... yeah, I have no words.

 

But it's worse in this DLC, I'm afraid. You get a long, long, LONG climb/walkaround/several obligatory fights with Bad Barbarians, who tend to respawn pretty quickly, and then you meet another Generic Researcher(an elf female this time, but it doesn't help much), who gives you a long droning speech on how this guy was a templar, and that girl was a dwarf. There's no emotional details to that backstory, no lost letters filled with desperation, nothing. 

 

(Actually, it's worse, since you're told it's a place of madness, but you never find why - the side quest is over, you get the XP, you go home).



#22
Whysper

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Well in Australia it is for sale for $25 which IMHO is way too expensive, so I am guessing I won't be getting the DLC any time soon based on your comments!!! Sad  :(

 

we play this game 10 friends but  we 100% decline this  price for DLC. Joke.. my original game was 25 Euro and they want i pay for  DLC  15 euro. Are You Mad? battlefield 4 PREMIUM was 20 Euro and include all DLC



#23
jpr9845

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I bought 'Jaws of Hakkon' but I can't figure out how to check it out in game. It is suppose to add a new area to my game but my world map is unchanged, no new area. When I look at my info on Origin it says it is installed, when I start the game it says "Install Jaw of Hakkon" so what is going on?

 

Do I need to do something or talk to a certain character to get access to this rather expensive DLC?