396 réponses à ce sujet

[duckley]

It seems that for some, DA:I isnt stellar because it is not as good as Skyrim, and for others it isnt a stellar game because it is too much like Skyrim. Seems like a no win scenario for Bioware.

I am not a big fan of Skyrim. I found it was way too open and big with way too many irrelevant activities and fetch quests. For me, it lacked soul as there were no deep and rich relationships established. The story got lost in all the side questing and house decorating. Furthermore, it was so buggy that I couldn't complete the game as it froze every few minutes, despite patch after patch.

Hmm does this sound like many of the complaints some have about DA:I?

Although not a big fan of Skyrim, I did find elements to enjoy and appreciate in the game. I hope that those who aren't crazy about Inquisition can still get some fun and entertainment from the game and appreciate some of its beauty.

[blahblahblah]

Well if you want a story/character-driven game, I recommend you come to the JRPG side... I recommend Tales of Vesperia for 360.

 

On top, to make it short, I do think we will see story/character-driven games from Bio again. I trust they will take the feedback from here, metacritic, game websites like gamestop, maybe even YT, and keep the criticisms in mind when they begin work on the new DA game. They seemed to take the feedback from DA2, about the small, repetitive world. However, they now have went to extremes in DAI. I'm a little afraid that the next game will be linear with total focus on the main story a la Final Fantasy 13 lol  but nah, I don't think they'd go that far... I just want them to find a nice balance, I hope they can...

Or exploring the same cave like DA2.

[Rekkampum]

The Dark Brotherhood was literally the ONLY faction quest line I completed, in all of Skyrim. I enjoyed the crap out of it, but I'm like a grown man-child. I need training wheels on my bike, rails to guide me! Otherwise I'm crossing the 100 hour mark in a game and haven't made it to High-Hrothgar.....yup. That's my issue with Skryim, too much freedom.

 

Spoiler

If you haven't done the mission at Frostflow Lighthouse, do it. Easily the most gripping side quest out of any in Skyrim.

[Hazegurl]

Well, half of those things have been happening to those who like it also. Plus something related to EA. I guess inexplicable bias is an equal opportunity provider here on BSN!

Oh I'm sure, but I try my best to stay away from "DAI is awesome" threads. I see no need to go in those threads just to tell the OP that DAI sucks when all they want to do is gush about it.  I prefer to express my opinion in topics like this and usually it has it's fair share of those lines directed at the OP.   Not by everyone who likes DAI but some.  I guess in the end, we should all get along....but....

 

 

This is more fun

-------------

 

As for the Skyrim debate.  I think the DA devs were mostly trying to please fans who were upset over DA2's reused maps and during an interview they thought up the first open world game they knew of and said it.  Which was Skyrim. Idk, it seems more like that could be the case.

 

Personally, if DA went full Skyrim, I would never touch their game again. Sorry Skyrim fans but that game is boring. I still haven't finished it and I probably never will. I got a lot of mods, can have multiple followers, married Argis, got a modded Hearthfire pad. But that game feels so empty. The Hypothermia and survival mods are awesome though and kept me playing longer than I ever would have. I do like the npcs moving about, I love throwing the food about, I loved being able to kill whomever I wanted. But I didn't give two craps about anyone in that world nor was I ever invested in what was going on.  I do give DAI credit for making me at least care about how they did their story, even if I wasn't satisfied with it.

[Chiramu]

What gets me to play Dragon Age games(Mass Effect is boring to me) is the party interaction, character customisation and the world. I don't play Skyrim or any Bethesda game because I feel alone in the world, also I enjoy playing support heroes and you cannot play a support hero in a solo RPG. I don't play The Witcher because of the lack of character customisation and like Elder Scrolls game it is solo. 

 

I feel the middle of Dragon Age games is where the story sort of wobbles, in Inquisition the middle is so flimsy and the ending is it falling over backwards. The introduction to the Dragon Age world has always been the best part of the game, and then the rest of the story always ends up disappointing me.

 

That is why I want to enjoy the Dragon Age world, ever the optimist and ever disappointed(thus far).

[thruaglassdarkly]

Well if you want a story/character-driven game, I recommend you come to the JRPG side... I recommend Tales of Vesperia for 360.

 

I actually really enjoyed the characters in DA:I. The playable cast is probably my favorite part of the game.  "Tales" is a pretty excellent series too, although I have trouble getting into JRPGs like I used too.  I probably over did that when I was younger. That said, for someone starting out with JRPGs to try something new, "Tales" is probably the series I'd recommend.

[wright1978]

If I had to make an assumption, I would say that they made this game thinking that an open world map that you can spend countless hours roaming around in, is enough to compensate for the lack of interesting characters and plot.

 

Good gameplay and wonderful maps are always welcome, but story and characters come first. Always. It's what made me replay the Mass Effect series countless times. Those are the things I look forward to. And if there's nothing to look forward to in a game, then I'm not even going to play it.

 

The scale of the maps got a little too big that it was hard to fill every inch of it with meaningful activities. Instead 50% of the game was you rummaging around the bushes trying to pick up something. The RNG and forced reliance on crafting didn't help either.

 

Hopefully Mass Effect 4 and its "focus on exploration" doesn't mean that they're doing the same thing - as in all open world and exploration, but no meaningful story and wonderful characters.

 

Yep very much keeping my fingers crossed DAI is a aberration not an indication of future direction. Beautiful large zones void of story and filled with filler isn't what i want from an RPG.

[TheRatPack55]

Rant ahead.

 

I have to say I actually enjoyed the exploration aspect in The Elder Scrolls (and all open world Bethesda games, really), something I can't say about DAI. I still sometimes fire up Skyrim just to walk around a bit, enjoy the views, search for Dragon Priests and such (I think there's still one I never found, almost four years after the game came out...). By contrast, the thought of starting up Inquisition to roam around the Hinterlands again makes me break out in hives. It's not fun. It's a chore.

 

Somehow, I find it satisfying to fill bowls in my Skyrim house with precious gems (I barely loot anything but gems and cash after a point), even though I'm swimming in septims, while finding more useless loot in random chests in DAI just means I'm going to have to sort my inventory again and drop by a merchant. Chore.

 

Which is why exploration shouldn't be one of the main pillars on which a Bioware rpg is built. It can be there, a bit of it anyway, but as a little bonus. Story and characters ought to be the main focus, along with entertaining gameplay, but the last has been a bit of an issue in all three DA games, as far as I'm concerned. Still, the emotional impact of the story and character interactions mostly made up for it. The story in DAI didn't emotionally affect me in the slightest, and I didn't feel like most of the characters felt strongly about anything at all.

 

To go back to Bethesda for a moment, sure, the npcs in Skyrim and other games are automatons, but at least they move about, and react when I punch them in the face. There's a day/night cycle. All that, plus a firs person perspective adds to the immersion needed for an exploration-based game to be enjoyable. DA never had that, and it was ok because exploration was not the point. The way in which they added it to DAI is like putting nutella on a burger, because, well, nutella is good, right? People like nutella.

 

So now you'll just have to spend a long time scraping it all off so you can get to your burger.

[ashwind]

Rant ahead.

 

I have to say I actually enjoyed the exploration aspect in The Elder Scrolls (and all open world Bethesda games, really), something I can't say about DAI. I still sometimes fire up Skyrim just to walk around a bit, enjoy the views, search for Dragon Priests and such (I think there's still one I never found, almost four years after the game came out...). By contrast, the thought of starting up Inquisition to roam around the Hinterlands again makes me break out in hives. It's not fun. It's a chore.

 

 

There is the problem. You are exploring, hoping to find the Dragon Priest to get da mask. Why do you feel like exploring and not a chore? Because there is no glowing arrow pointing you towards where they are. You need to explore to find them.

 

We explore to discover, to find interesting things but when everything has a stupid glowing arrow pointing at it or a silly achievement page tagged to it, there is nothing to -discover- and hence exploration does not exists. That is why seasoned TES players always prefer Morrowind over silly Skyrim.

 

My favourite area in DAI is the Hissing Waste. Here are some poorly drawn maps just go find them tombs and discover the story behind this strange dwarven city above ground. It brought back exploration! Wish it had some/more secrets and puzzle in it.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

@ashwind

i swear, when i get home i'll print your post and frame it 

[MaxQuartiroli]

My first playthrough was about 47hrs and I didn't really do much in the way of area quests. I did companion content and the main quest. I didn't even venture into Emerald Graves, Hissing Wastes, or Emprise du Lion. I think I finished the game at level 16. I think that's reasonable for someone if they don't want to do much side-questing.

 

But to expect the game developers to come up with 100's of hours worth of story content? Unreasonable expectation. 

 

I am not talking about x hours which are worth or content, I was just asking if is possible to play and enjoy the game on higher difficult, without an overpowered class (i.e. Knight-Enchanter) and if you do, let's say, only the 20% of the content.

 

In every RPG game is mandatory gaining power and leveling up your character and your gears if you want to progress. And this is the right thing because it's the meaning of the game.. if you could finish your game at level 4 by going immediately to the final mission, well, where would be the fun? So every game provide you a way to do it. If it says that the suggested level for x area is 15, you have got to reach that level, if you have to fight an enemy which is level 20 you are supposed to be at least near at par with it. While it is true that not all the content in DA:I is mandatory I don't also think it is true that all the side content in is optional and this does not apply only for DA:I but for every game you play. 

 

So, maybe you can also win against an enemy which is 5 level higher but you have to find some non conventional way and, perhaps, to rely on a bit of luck. And perhaps use the most powered classes. And you can also go trough the main story but without the dialogue perks you miss some options, and not only dialogue options, but options which can influence the story. So, in a way or in another you are still forced to play in a specific way. You can choose to do more non mandatory things to have more options, or you can choose to do only the mandatory things but you are limited in your choices. Which is a thing that for many players, for me at least, is even worst than doing content which they don't like. And I suppose that is also the reason why many players who don't like the so-called optional content are "still there", like Mr. Laidlaw said. 

[Nefla]

There is the problem. You are exploring, hoping to find the Dragon Priest to get da mask. Why do you feel like exploring and not a chore? Because there is no glowing arrow pointing you towards where they are. You need to explore to find them.

 

We explore to discover, to find interesting things but when everything has a stupid glowing arrow pointing at it or a silly achievement page tagged to it, there is nothing to -discover- and hence exploration does not exists. That is why seasoned TES players always prefer Morrowind over silly Skyrim.

 

My favourite area in DAI is the Hissing Waste. Here are some poorly drawn maps just go find them tombs and discover the story behind this strange dwarven city above ground. It brought back exploration! Wish it had some/more secrets and puzzle in it.

I never discovered anything worthwhile or fun in my "exploration" of DA:I.

[o Ventus]

I never discovered anything worthwhile or fun in my "exploration" of DA:I.

That sounds like a 'you' problem rather than a problem with the game.

[Milana]

He might be a visual person who gets more enjoyment when things are laid out for him to view. This is unlike other people who can read something and 100% visual what they're reading. Different strokes for different folks.

Well i admit cutscenes are important to me, maybe thats why i love Mass effect much more. 

 

Though i still can read a book and imagine it in my head, and after i feel like i watched a movie. But even if i equally enjoy reading and playing my favorite video games, those are still different things to me.

[KaiserShep]

Well i admit cutscenes are important to me, maybe thats why i love Mass effect much more. 

 

Though i still can read a book and imagine it in my head, and after i feel like i watched a movie. But even if i equally enjoy reading and playing my favorite video games, those are still different things to me.

 

Yeah, Mass Effect does play like a Make-Your-Own-Adventure-Movie, which has a lot of charm. I'm a total noob to RPG type games of any sort, so it was a totally new experience for me and got hooked ever since.

[JJDXB]

DA:I has plenty of story.  It's just not yours.  I'm sure the devs have said that DA is Thedas' story, not one character's.  Thedas is the main character, and there is plenty of story that has been told and plenty more to be told.

[ashwind]

I never discovered anything worthwhile or fun in my "exploration" of DA:I.

 

One usually find the process of exploration itself fun and worthwhile but not the discovery because the discovery simply marks the end of the exploration and brings satisfaction. Not all exploration needs to end with something "worthwhile" for something that is worthwhile to you maybe worthless to others.

 

I agree that DAI does not provide much "exploration and discovery" but the Hissing Waste is definitely an area that provides "exploration and discovery". Because not everything is a marker on the map and you dont simply run from one marker to another, you have to find those tombs based on clues and hints.

 

If you cant find satisfaction in figuring out hints and clues too discover something, you simply dont like to explore and that is perfectly fine.

 

The shards for example... you just follow the marker and run all over the place. Exploration and Discovery? Nope. Chores they are.

 

Now if Bioware were to simply drop hints and clues as to where the shards are. Some maybe in a collector's house, some was last recorded to be in the hands of the Avvar, find a map that leads to a hidden dungeon where one of the shard is etc etc and leave us to figure out where they are. That would result in the excitement of exploration and the satisfaction of discovery.

[Dieb]

Fallow Mire with its thick atmosphere and deserted townships; the Emerald Graves just in general; all the grave robbing, the mountain hike & the sheer realization that it's NOT just backdrop in the Hissing Wastes; seeing the ocean and learning about the dwarven harbor & its fate in the Storm Coast, etc... If nothing of that gives you something, then I don't know what your standards are for exploration.

 

I'm not saying that everyone should value that over other aspects that arguably are important about their version of the franchise, but saying the exploration parts are fundamentally worse than other games defined by it, seems like just turning rocks (ha).

 

My opinion of course being just as subjective as everyone else's.

[Apollexander]

If you don't like the marker, I suggest you go to the option and set the HUD to be "always off". Then you will get rid of the minimap.

[ashwind]

If you don't like the marker, I suggest you go to the option and set the HUD to be "always off". Then you will get rid of the minimap.

 

Lets ignore the fact that turning off HUD all the time also hides my skill bar and other things I want to see but that is besides the point.

 

Today games are design to not provide hints or information for players to discover things. Instead of providing in game information/hints/clues to lead you somewhere, it is been reduced to a marker. Hence the sense of exploration and discovery is lost.

[Bunny]

Even though markers take away from the sense of exploration and can make quests feel like chores (I agree 100% with that point), it's also frustrating to be unable to proceed in a game when the clues are too subtle. The Fade in DAO was challenging for me, even with markers everywhere.

[SuperNose]

Lets ignore the fact that turning off HUD all the time also hides my skill bar and other things I want to see but that is besides the point.

 

Today games are design to not provide hints or information for players to discover things. Instead of providing in game information/hints/clues to lead you somewhere, it is been reduced to a marker. Hence the sense of exploration and discovery is lost.

 

I personally like this idea. I'd like the ability to turn off the quest marker, and to have the game lead me in the correct direction. I believe that would help the fetch quests feel less boring. Looking back, I spent more time watching the mini-map than I did watching what was around me. Some of my more memorable moments were when I snapped out of what I was doing, and actually LOOKED around me and took in the sights. The game really is gorgeous and filled with all kinds of little stories and moments, you just need a reason to see it!

 

Even though markers take away from the sense of exploration and can make quests feel like chores (I agree 100% with that point), it's also frustrating to be unable to proceed in a game when the clues are too subtle. The Fade in DAO was challenging for me, even with markers everywhere.

 

This is also extremely true. There's a fine line a game needs to walk so that exploring and not searching for what you need to find!

[Al Foley]

Not to sound like a broken record here but I feel as though BioWare sort of solved this problem in DA I.  The markers, often, did not take you right to the area you still had to look for them.  I should know by the frustrating amount of time it took me tof ind several things in the Storm Coast and Hinterlands...and WA.  

[CronoDragoon]

Did anyone actually follow markers in DA: I unless they were nearing zone completion? I always just ran to unmapped parts of the zone and the markers took care of themselves.

[AlanC9]

Lets ignore the fact that turning off HUD all the time also hides my skill bar and other things I want to see but that is besides the point.

Today games are design to not provide hints or information for players to discover things. Instead of providing in game information/hints/clues to lead you somewhere, it is been reduced to a marker. Hence the sense of exploration and discovery is lost.

Right. I was lucky with Skyrim. I'm currently using a fairly large TV set as a monitor, and I've found that with the right seat position I can put the indicators out of my peripheral vision. (I'd mod them off alogether except that some quests really expect you to use the compass.)

Of course, Skyrim blatantly throws content at you even without the compass. Most of the ruins and whatnot, whether "lost" or not, have trails leading down to a main road if they're not actually visible from it. Which is hilarious in a couple of cases, but Skyrim's not about plausibility so it doesn't bother me too much.