396 réponses à ce sujet

[SolNebula]

That seems kinda redundant since it was that very same aspect people cried out for with the Mass sequels -- Taking away the ability to explore uncharted worlds and the galaxy itself, left the Mass Effect series as just a corridor shooter with the occasional ability to go back to the Normandy to play with your train set. The MAKO and the sense of bigness that should usually follow with a self-proclaimed sci-fi opera such as that was replaced with nothing by the time of ME3 -- Oh, and there were certainly a lot of fetch quests in ME3, if that tells you anything.

 

The way I see it is this -- ME1 & KOTOR were good because they had that sense of bigness when travelling from planet to planet. The worlds themselves weren't too big neither too small, thus every minor odd job like retrieving a runaway droid for some crazy woman, investigating corporate corruption on Noveria, or solving a murder mystery on Dantooine felt less like busy work and more engaging since there were space for more dialogue. Essentially, I can get behind that. I don't dislike Inquisition, however, unlike most recent games that have taken a turn at the whole open world aspect, simply because it can and not necessarily because it's the right direction. Example, I don't think Metal Gear's approach to an open world is what that franchise needs, nor would I think the same for other stealth games that tries to do too much and thus ultimately ending up with nothing but empty space. I kinda liked what Inquisition did a lot. It granted me the option of vast customization that I wanted, and the ability to explore vast terrain and examine the environment here and there to find small stories, tied to the area, ultimately having the story be integrated into the environment itself -- Not necessarily in the same fashion as say... a game like Silent Hill, where atmosphere is key.

 

It wasn't perfect though -- Ultimately a lot of the quests did indeed feel like busy work, which made the game suffer for it altogether and that's a shame. I don't think they should scrap the idea of exploration like you do though, as I feel that's an aspect that made previous BioWare games so good and not just the characters. If it were the characters alone then I'd play the Longest Journey games instead, which are rich in good writing, characters and great lore, while sorely lack in gameplay. That's not what I want from BioWare though. In retrospect, it's always hard to decipher what fans want. If you ask for a game that caters to fans then you get garbage like Silent Hill Origins (for instance) which is no good. The best games are always the ones we never ask for at all.

If I were to ask for anything in future BioWare games then I'd say -- Keep the exploration, keep the vast customization, although keep things to a minimum in terms of scale if that helps building more engaging sub-quests to add layers to the worlds you visit.

 

You entered in my mind and took my ideas and wrote this wonderful post. I commend you kind Sir.

[Al Foley]

That seems kinda redundant since it was that very same aspect people cried out for with the Mass sequels -- Taking away the ability to explore uncharted worlds and the galaxy itself, left the Mass Effect series as just a corridor shooter with the occasional ability to go back to the Normandy to play with your train set. The MAKO and the sense of bigness that should usually follow with a self-proclaimed sci-fi opera such as that was replaced with nothing by the time of ME3 -- Oh, and there were certainly a lot of fetch quests in ME3, if that tells you anything.

 

The way I see it is this -- ME1 & KOTOR were good because they had that sense of bigness when travelling from planet to planet. The worlds themselves weren't too big neither too small, thus every minor odd job like retrieving a runaway droid for some crazy woman, investigating corporate corruption on Noveria, or solving a murder mystery on Dantooine felt less like busy work and more engaging since there were space for more dialogue. Essentially, I can get behind that. I don't dislike Inquisition, however, unlike most recent games that have taken a turn at the whole open world aspect, simply because it can and not necessarily because it's the right direction. Example, I don't think Metal Gear's approach to an open world is what that franchise needs, nor would I think the same for other stealth games that tries to do too much and thus ultimately ending up with nothing but empty space. I kinda liked what Inquisition did a lot. It granted me the option of vast customization that I wanted, and the ability to explore vast terrain and examine the environment here and there to find small stories, tied to the area, ultimately having the story be integrated into the environment itself -- Not necessarily in the same fashion as say... a game like Silent Hill, where atmosphere is key.

 

It wasn't perfect though -- Ultimately a lot of the quests did indeed feel like busy work, which made the game suffer for it altogether and that's a shame. I don't think they should scrap the idea of exploration like you do though, as I feel that's an aspect that made previous BioWare games so good and not just the characters. If it were the characters alone then I'd play the Longest Journey games instead, which are rich in good writing, characters and great lore, while sorely lack in gameplay. That's not what I want from BioWare though. In retrospect, it's always hard to decipher what fans want. If you ask for a game that caters to fans then you get garbage like Silent Hill Origins (for instance) which is no good. The best games are always the ones we never ask for at all.

If I were to ask for anything in future BioWare games then I'd say -- Keep the exploration, keep the vast customization, although keep things to a minimum in terms of scale if that helps building more engaging sub-quests to add layers to the worlds you visit.

And for God's sake take out the repitition.  I liked some of the fetch questing, I liked the rifts, but did the game really need seventy five of them and I think a ring quest in every major zone....well damn now that I am thinking about it there might have been three without.  Still, the amount of ring quests were too damn high!

[SolNebula]

And for God's sake take out the repitition.  I liked some of the fetch questing, I liked the rifts, but did the game really need seventy five of them and I think a ring quest in every major zone....well damn now that I am thinking about it there might have been three without.  Still, the amount of ring quests were too damn high!

 

Tbh I was watching a LP of the new DLC now (waiting for the PS4 release) and closing fade rifts is actually rewarding now because you get sweet items for doing so. I think the problem are the rewards you get for doing fetch quests. Closing fade rifts wasn't rewarding in the vanilla game.

[Al Foley]

Tbh I was watching a LP of the new DLC now (waiting for the PS4 release) and closing fade rifts is actually rewarding now because you get sweet items for doing so. I think the problem are the rewards you get for doing fetch quests. Closing fade rifts wasn't rewarding in the vanilla game.

Perhaps but this does not really address my problem.  I liked doing them.  I liked the gameplay of them, so the rifts were fine in the vanilla game, heck I did not even mind doing all 75 of them...but I just have to wonder if we could have squeazed out one or two more interesting side quests if we cut that number down.  

[littlebrightpanda]

They could have added more story content, especially some smaller things. Why can't I go to Starkhaven and talk some sense into Sebastian? Or visit the Ferelden Court? Isn't the Inquisition important enough for that? Little things like this could have improved the connection between player and Inquisition, cause you don't really feel the power you have. Although generally speaking, the things you do are quite good. Just not enough. 

 

However, I think the zone design was good. There were some with more story, some with less and it was up to you discovering things. You could do everything at your own pace and decide what exactly you wanted to do, which made the game more free than even ME1. 

 

There were 3 different types of zones, no.1 story-driven (Crestwood, Fallow Mire, Frostback Basin, Emprise du Lion), no.2 exploration-driven (Hissing Wastes, Western Approach, Storm Coast), and no. 3 mix-of-both (Hinterlands, Exalted Plains, Emerald Graves). You can argue which is exactly which, but I quite liked it. More story-driven ones might have been more appreciated than more mixed ones, but there was at least the attempt to give everybody something to do. They could have made the story-driven ones more clear (=more cutscenes), cause people appear to really like those. 

 

One of the major problems was the reward for some of the quests. Closing Fade-Rifts was great in the Frostback Basin because of great rewards. Not so in the vanilla game. And sometimes the context of quests was blurry, so you weren't involved as you could be. But these are things that can be improved. The basis is there, and the Frostback Basin already did a good job to show that they can do things a bit different. 

[Tython]

Dragon Age Inquisition is one of the best games I've played from Bioware. I've probably clocked over 100 hours in it over tons of alts. To say it's not story driven is shocking to me. There's more story packed into this game than most other games combined. If you don't like the fetch quests, don't do them; there's plenty of other things to do.

 

Anyway, I disagree with the op but it's their opinion. Just don't think coming on these forums and making a statement like that will not get you tons of responses from people who disagree with you.

[CronoDragoon]

Perhaps but this does not really address my problem.  I liked doing them.  I liked the gameplay of them, so the rifts were fine in the vanilla game, heck I did not even mind doing all 75 of them...but I just have to wonder if we could have squeazed out one or two more interesting side quests if we cut that number down.

Hard to say. I doubt the same people responsible for peppering Rifts are those responsible for crafting quests with dialogue/letters/codex entries. I do recall reading that for Baldur's Gate II they let the level designers work in quests of their own, though. It'd be cool if something similar was done here. Surely the best quest idea from a non-writer is still better than another area with a rift and two landmarks.

[jlb524]

I skipped most 'fetch' stuff my first pt and finished the game in 48 hours or so. This includes doing all companion quests. I don't think this is all that different from other DA games (I usually finish DAO/DA2 in 40 some hours, skipping side quests like the Chanters board stuff). So, I think the game could be just as story oriented if you want it to be (don't do the fetchy stuff).

DA2 did seem to have more focus on companion quests as each one had a mission for each chapter but DAI seemed to have more companion content over DAO.

I do think the main story for DAI could have been more interesting but eh.

[Lebanese Dude]

I do think the main story for DAI could have been more interesting but eh.

 

Like most plots it honestly depends on what you view as interesting. 

 

DAI focuses a lot on the concept of Faith in all its forms. I find that particular topic to be really fascinating so it added to the value of the storyline.

[Phoe77]

What else is there to find when exploring in DA:I? More elfroot and rocks? Shards? Notes on the ground telling me to go take a letter to a tree or go collect bear claws? The very rare dungeon with a generic rift demon as the "boss"? DA:I exploration certainly never gave me powerful and unique gear, let me meet interesting and memorable characters, taught me special abilities, revealed fun and intriguing storylines, or gave me opportunities to roleplay. Those are the things I look for and were included in every other BioWare game I've ever played. DA:I randomly did away with all that stuff and gave large maps that I find empty, lifeless, and boring. I don't enjoy looking at the scenery for the sake of looking at the scenery. The beauty of the maps is often brought up by people who like the exploration and say they are happy looking at all the views and that the shard collecting and druffalo herding give them an excuse to travel around the maps looking at the view. If I want a spectacular view I can look out my window.

 

Do I really have to qualify every single sentence of every single post I make with "this is my personal and subjective opinion?"

 

This post and the one I quoted earlier specifically mentions what is come across through exploration.  Combat encounters, dungeons, lore in the form of notes and ambient dialogue.  Whether or not you or I or anyone else found those things fulfilling is irrelevant to the point that I was making, which was that exploration does lead to other aspects of the game.  Saying that exploration allows you to experience nothing is just factually inaccurate. 

 

It also has nothing to do with prefacing your posts with "in my opinion".  As it is, there are benefits to exploring the world that Bioware crafted.  Regardless of how much or how little an individual values them, they are there.   If there truly was nothing more to the game than wandering around an empty landscape then I would agree that the game itself was inherently flawed.   As it is though, there are things to do out in the world of Inquisition (regardless of how often people will insist that there isn't).  

 

It's a shame that the things that Bioware included in the game are not things that you value very greatly in your gaming experience, but that doesn't mean that Bioware did something wrong.  It just means that this particular game doesn't seem to be a very good match for your preferences.  Call of Duty doesn't provide much of anything that I personally value in a game, but that doesn't mean that the game itself is flawed.

 

Note that I'm not necessarily even saying that you said the game is inherently bad because you don't care for it much.  It's just that it seems like the "I don't like it so it's objectively awful" mindset comes up so often and I like to go on the record to say that that isn't the case, even if it is futile.  

[Lebanese Dude]

*snip*

I think the problem with a few people here is that they attempt to emulate their previous gaming experiences in new games of the series.

 

What ends up happening is that they single out what they consider to be "flaws" in the new game since they are comparing those specific criteria to previous games without noting whether or not they're appropriate, feasible, or necessary.

 

Not to mention that the comparison ends up diluting whatever improvements have been made in the wake of the "faults", using some illusory prioritization regarding to what's important and what's not while forgetting that they all tie in to form a whole package.

 

It's not exactly something new. You always hear people say that they prefer rehashed versions of the original iteration which they're comfortable with as opposed to something new. This is often a product of nostalgia, but they can have their biases and preferences too.

[KaiserShep]

Tbh I was watching a LP of the new DLC now (waiting for the PS4 release) and closing fade rifts is actually rewarding now because you get sweet items for doing so. I think the problem are the rewards you get for doing fetch quests. Closing fade rifts wasn't rewarding in the vanilla game.

 

If I really had to pin down the biggest problem with the rifts, it's that most of them are not effectively depicted as being terribly perilous. Obviously, the ones in the deserts would be isolated, but it would have been nice to actually see some NPC's in danger as a result, like some soldiers fighting off demons or civilians attempting to flee. That elf woman in the outskirts should have been freaking out over a rift appearing right outside her front door, but you close the rift, and she doesn't even mention it lol.

[Lebanese Dude]

If I really had to pin down the biggest problem with the rifts, it's that most of them are not effectively depicted as being terribly perilous.

 

lol true

 

I guess it comes down to headcanon'ing the peril.

 

Also NPCs in games are historically oblivious to their surroundings. xD

[Al Foley]

If I really had to pin down the biggest problem with the rifts, it's that most of them are not effectively depicted as being terribly perilous. Obviously, the ones in the deserts would be isolated, but it would have been nice to actually see some NPC's in danger as a result, like some soldiers fighting off demons or civilians attempting to flee. That elf woman in the outskirts should have been freaking out over a rift appearing right outside her front door, but you close the rift, and she doesn't even mention it lol.

EXACTLY this reminds me I was thinking of when I was playing Inquisition...if the rifts only activate when the Inquisitor stumbles upon them then how are they dangerous to anyone else?  OK...maybe they activate when anyonec omes across them...in that case avoid them.  How are they so dangerous to trade and commerce for people?  Where are all the dozens of demons pouring through into the world and harrasing the population?  

[Lebanese Dude]

EXACTLY this reminds me I was thinking of when I was playing Inquisition...if the rifts only activate when the Inquisitor stumbles upon them then how are they dangerous to anyone else?  OK...maybe they activate when anyonec omes across them...in that case avoid them.  How are they so dangerous to trade and commerce for people?  Where are all the dozens of demons pouring through into the world and harrasing the population?  

 

No actually.

 

Rifts are simply another word for "veil tear". They're always a danger to people

 

To be honest I'm fairly certain they didn't want to overdo it with the "rift danger" since they wanted to explore other faces such as Elven lore, Chantry, Red Templars, etc... They dedicated two zones to the concept of demons (Fallow Mire, Exalted Plains) and in those zones you can see the effects of rifts on the population pretty clearly. The entire main quest revolves around closing the main rift too and you can also clearly see its effect on people... the whole game in fact

 

[Al Foley]

No actually.

 

Rifts are simply another word for "veil tear". They're always a danger to people

 

To be honest I'm fairly certain they didn't want to overdo it with the "rift danger" since they wanted to explore other faces such as Elven lore, Chantry, Red Templars, etc... They dedicated two zones to the concept of demons (Fallow Mire, Exalted Plains) and in those zones you can see the effects of rifts on the population pretty clearly. The entire main quest revolves around closing the main rift too and you can also clearly see its effect on people... the whole game in fact

I know.  Meh.  I didn't say it was a fair thought and I know outside of gameplay the rifts are dangerous.  And in lore they are horrifying.  Just, it always seemed odd that they would only 'awaken' and demons would seemingly only come out of them after the Inquisitor approached.  

[Toasted Llama]

I don't know if anyone else has already mentioned it but I wonder if I'm the only one that actually got the feeling like I was finally in Thedas due to the open world aspect. The fact that I was allowed to go where-ever I wanted, whether the narrative wanted me or not. And frankly, I enjoyed not facing a new group of enemies every 10 seconds, really allowed me to take in the scenery a bit more.

It just felt like I experienced Thedas, not just "Dragon Age".

Edit: To make it a bit more on topic: personally, I genuinely enjoyed not being enclosed to narrative, narrative, narrative, story, narrative for once.

[Al Foley]

I don't know if anyone else has already mentioned it but I wonder if I'm the only one that actually got the feeling like I was finally in Thedas due to the open world aspect. The fact that I was allowed to go where-ever I wanted, whether the narrative wanted me or not. And frankly, I enjoyed not facing a new group of enemies every 10 seconds, really allowed me to take in the scenery a bit more.

It just felt like I experienced Thedas, not just "Dragon Age".

Edit: To make it a bit more on topic: personally, I genuinely enjoyed not being enclosed to narrative, narrative, narrative, story, narrative for once.

I agree one hundred percent, one of the things I mentined in my Expecations blog, and then one of the things I commended them on in my review.  

[Lebanese Dude]

demons would seemingly only come out of them after the Inquisitor approached.  

 

Many reasons, ranging from pure gameplay to memory concerns

[Al Foley]

Many reasons, ranging from pure gameplay to memory concerns

I also did not like it that the rift's health was tied to the demon's health.  I would have preffered infinite waves of demons until you could seal the rift.  

[TheRatPack55]

lol true

 

I guess it comes down to headcanon'ing the peril.

 

Also NPCs in games are historically oblivious to their surroundings. xD

 

Not always. I wish a number of fetch-quest givers in DAI could get themselves eaten by monsters, the way it happened many a time for me in The Elder Scrolls.

 

I didn't miss them then and I sure wouldn't miss them now. 

[Draining Dragon]

I don't know if anyone else has already mentioned it but I wonder if I'm the only one that actually got the feeling like I was finally in Thedas due to the open world aspect. The fact that I was allowed to go where-ever I wanted, whether the narrative wanted me or not. And frankly, I enjoyed not facing a new group of enemies every 10 seconds, really allowed me to take in the scenery a bit more.

It just felt like I experienced Thedas, not just "Dragon Age".

Edit: To make it a bit more on topic: personally, I genuinely enjoyed not being enclosed to narrative, narrative, narrative, story, narrative for once.

This game is what experiencing Thedas feels like?

Oh, wow. No wonder the inhabitants are so dreary.

[CronoDragoon]

If I really had to pin down the biggest problem with the rifts, it's that most of them are not effectively depicted as being terribly perilous. Obviously, the ones in the deserts would be isolated, but it would have been nice to actually see some NPC's in danger as a result, like some soldiers fighting off demons or civilians attempting to flee. That elf woman in the outskirts should have been freaking out over a rift appearing right outside her front door, but you close the rift, and she doesn't even mention it lol.

Good point. I'm now imagining a missed opportunity where you stumble across a Rift that's spawned in the middle of a village and all the NPCs are dead.

With that being said, whatever peril was missing from NPC reaction I soon learned trying to close it. Besides Fire Dragons Rifts are by far the toughest fights in the game.

[Lebanese Dude]

I also did not like it that the rift's health was tied to the demon's health.  I would have preffered infinite waves of demons until you could seal the rift.  

 

Would have been interesting.

[Aren]

I don't know why many seems to have a huge problem with DAO quest in the fade, that part was awesome, play as a golem , a mouse, a fire corpose ecc.. see the nightmare of companions.