396 réponses à ce sujet

[Lebanese Dude]

Good point. I'm now imagining a missed opportunity where you stumble across a Rift that's spawned in the middle of a village and all the NPCs are dead.

With that being said, whatever peril was missing from NPC reaction I soon learned trying to close it. Besides Fire Dragons Rifts are by far the toughest fights in the game.

Crestwood though

 

Regarding the rift difficulty, on my first playthrough (was Nightmare too ) I got DESTROYED by the Terror Demons. It wasn't til later that I realized the value of Dispel Magic and CC to neutralize them.

[Lebanese Dude]

I don't know why many seems to have a huge problem with DAO quest in the fade, that part was awesome, play as a golem , a mouse, a fire corpose ecc.. see the nightmare of companions.

 

It's mostly because it's very linear. It doesn't help that it's a solo experience when the game is based on having a party.

I personally enjoyed it over the course of many playthroughs, but i can see how it can be grating to others.

[Shechinah]

(to Aren) I think it was more because of how long it could take with everything besides the transformations and nightmares meaning it became more of a bother to find your way around the Fade, at least that was the case with me as far as I can remember. I was and still am one of the players who use the Fade mod and I adore that I can still play the companions' nightmare sections and fight the boss using the transformations.

 

Bit sad that it skips over most of the parts with Niall but I ended up having such a bad time with navigating the Fade that it wound up not being fun at all to play so I'll just settle for pretending how those conversations played out.

[CronoDragoon]

I liked the nightmare part of Origins' Fade, but felt that DA2 did this part better by skipping the gimmicks and getting to the interesting parts.

[Nefla]

This post and the one I quoted earlier specifically mentions what is come across through exploration.  Combat encounters, dungeons, lore in the form of notes and ambient dialogue.  Whether or not you or I or anyone else found those things fulfilling is irrelevant to the point that I was making, which was that exploration does lead to other aspects of the game.  Saying that exploration allows you to experience nothing is just factually inaccurate. 

 

It also has nothing to do with prefacing your posts with "in my opinion".  As it is, there are benefits to exploring the world that Bioware crafted.  Regardless of how much or how little an individual values them, they are there.   If there truly was nothing more to the game than wandering around an empty landscape then I would agree that the game itself was inherently flawed.   As it is though, there are things to do out in the world of Inquisition (regardless of how often people will insist that there isn't).  

 

It's a shame that the things that Bioware included in the game are not things that you value very greatly in your gaming experience, but that doesn't mean that Bioware did something wrong.  It just means that this particular game doesn't seem to be a very good match for your preferences.  Call of Duty doesn't provide much of anything that I personally value in a game, but that doesn't mean that the game itself is flawed.

 

Note that I'm not necessarily even saying that you said the game is inherently bad because you don't care for it much.  It's just that it seems like the "I don't like it so it's objectively awful" mindset comes up so often and I like to go on the record to say that that isn't the case, even if it is futile.  

Semantics. I didn't mean there was literally nothing at all to do while exploring, I meant there was nothing of value to do while exploring, nothing that I found fun or interesting in the slightest (and I keep listing the things that I would have found fun). They could have made DA:I into a tetris style puzzle game and it wouldn't be "flawed" or "objectively awful" (which I've never said about DA:I) but there are plenty of people who wouldn't like that the elements they found enjoyable were now gone. I have no desire to play games like CoD either and their existence doesn't bother me. On the other hand, if DA4 came out and was a CoD clone just with a medieval skin, would you be praising and defending it? I loved DA:O and BioWare's other games (KotOR and beyond) they all had the same kind of side quest which I expected in DA:I as well and now it's entirely gone. Outside of the main plot and companion quests I feel like I'm playing WoW and that's not what I signed up for. It breaks my heart that this is the direction BioWare is going (along with other elements I dislike) and I don't think they will ever produce another game that resonates with me the way their games used to.

[CronoDragoon]

Semantics. I didn't mean there was literally nothing at all to do while exploring, I meant there was nothing of value to do while exploring, nothing that I found fun or interesting in the slightest (and I keep listing the things that I would have found fun). They could have made DA:I into a tetris style puzzle game and it wouldn't be "flawed" or "objectively awful" (which I've never said about DA:I) but there are plenty of people who wouldn't like that the elements they found enjoyable were now gone. I have no desire to play games like CoD either and their existence doesn't bother me. On the other hand, if DA4 came out and was a CoD clone just with a medieval skin, would you be praising and defending it? I loved DA:O and BioWare's other games (KotOR and beyond) they all had the same kind of side quest which I expected in DA:I as well and now it's entirely gone. Outside of the main plot and companion quests I feel like I'm playing WoW and that's not what I signed up for. It breaks my heart that this is the direction BioWare is going (along with other elements I dislike) and I don't think they will ever produce another game that resonates with me the way their games used to.

What about Mass Effect 1?

[Dinkledorf]

There's a distinct difference between doing something and not finding it entertaining, and doing something and the product is plain bad.

So which is it in this case?  Seems subjective to me no matter how you slice it, no?

[CronoDragoon]

So which is it in this case?  Seems subjective to me no matter how you slice it, no?

 

I think the distinction O Ventus is outlining is the following: evaluating something based on what you want from it, and evaluating something based on what it's trying to do. So long as what it's trying to do seems like a worthy goal, it seems like evaluating the degree to which a product is successful at what it wants to do is a more "objective" analysis than evaluating something based on one's own tastes.

 

That's not to say the latter isn't very useful, as opinions about whether someone liked something is always useful if presented constructively. But it's a different problem if a game fails on its own terms rather than a specific player's, if that makes sense.

[dsl08002]

The problem with this big enviroment that DAI has, is that it gets very limited with story behind it. If you dont take the correct path then you will miss of something importence. You cant do jump and scare or make an enviroment change like an earthquake.

[Lebanese Dude]

I think the distinction O Ventus is outlining is the following: evaluating something based on what you want from it, and evaluating something based on what it's trying to do. So long as what it's trying to do seems like a worthy goal, it seems like evaluating the degree to which a product is successful at what it wants to do is a more "objective" analysis than evaluating something based on one's own tastes.

 

That's not to say the latter isn't very useful, as opinions about whether someone liked something is always useful if presented constructively. But it's a different problem if a game fails on its own terms rather than a specific player's, if that makes sense.

 

How eloquent

[In Exile]

This seems to have been the expected approach to the game. Didn't Laidlaw express surprise that so many players went completionist?

I think their mistake was in not thinking about the game needing to succeed at two levels: casual and completionist. I think they expected a bell curve in terms of content consumption but it's likely closer to two peaks.

[In Exile]

Disappointing if they are being dismissive of player's feedback about the lack of story content and excessive fetch.

I don't think they're dismissive. I think what he's saying is that the side quests aren't mandatory for any story related content. We can see them try to do better with Jaws. Obviously it's just a touched up zone but pitting price aside most all agree it's better than the regular zones no?

[Nefla]

What about Mass Effect 1?

ME1 included that kind of quest as well ex: The ones involving Conrad Verner, Emily Wong, the ones referencing your backstory, etc...

[Nefla]

I think the distinction O Ventus is outlining is the following: evaluating something based on what you want from it, and evaluating something based on what it's trying to do. So long as what it's trying to do seems like a worthy goal, it seems like evaluating the degree to which a product is successful at what it wants to do is a more "objective" analysis than evaluating something based on one's own tastes.

 

That's not to say the latter isn't very useful, as opinions about whether someone liked something is always useful if presented constructively. But it's a different problem if a game fails on its own terms rather than a specific player's, if that makes sense.

I don't know anyone who doesn't evaluate a product based on their own tastes. Why is it suddenly wrong to say what you like and don't like about something? What was BioWare trying to do with the sidequests and zones? If their intention was to pad out the playtime and make the core game seem longer by putting in power requirements that force you to grind shallow tasks between the main story missions then they accomplished their goal. If their goal was to be like Skyrim, they did not succeed on any level. Even with the map size (which is their closest aspect) it's still not an open world.

[CronoDragoon]

I don't know anyone who doesn't evaluate a product based on their own tastes. Why is it suddenly wrong to say what you like and don't like about something?

It isn't, and I explicitly said it wasn't in the post you quoted. I only wanted to differentiate them, not suggest that posting about your preferences was wrong.
 

What was BioWare trying to do with the sidequests and zones?

They've said it many times, but funnily enough Darrah reiterated it in the Kotaku session going on right now:
 

The goal for DAI is for everything you do to, in some way, be feeding back into the Inquisition.

Whether you are strengthening yourself, gaining influence, or solving issues, it all feeds back in.

Now, I think a fair criticism of this goal would be to suggest that it doesn't include making all those activities interesting in their own right, instead focusing on the building of the Inquisition as gameplay influencing narrative as the interesting part. In other words, they thought, "The player will be naturally interested in completing this quest because it builds the Inquisition."

[littlebrightpanda]

Now, I think a fair criticism of this goal would be to suggest that it doesn't include making all those activities interesting in their own right, instead focusing on the building of the Inquisition as gameplay influencing narrative as the interesting part. In other words, they thought, "The player will be naturally interested in completing this quest because it builds the Inquisition."

 

They forgot to make the Inquisition important to us. There is some connection, but because you don't really see your power in effect, it just kind of sits there. I look at my 100 power and think "What now?". Little sidequests directly referencing the power, e.g. meeting important nobles, rulers, somebody would have given the whole thing a bit of flavor. Even if they would have only visited Skyhold. 

[Toasted Llama]

This game is what experiencing Thedas feels like?

Oh, wow. No wonder the inhabitants are so dreary.

Pfahahaha! Myeah if roaming around vast landscapes isn't your cup of tea I can see where you're coming from xD

Maybe you can convince the inhabitants of Thedas to rebel against Bioware and demand them to make more interesting games for you 

[Phoe77]

Semantics. I didn't mean there was literally nothing at all to do while exploring, I meant there was nothing of value to do while exploring, nothing that I found fun or interesting in the slightest (and I keep listing the things that I would have found fun). They could have made DA:I into a tetris style puzzle game and it wouldn't be "flawed" or "objectively awful" (which I've never said about DA:I) but there are plenty of people who wouldn't like that the elements they found enjoyable were now gone. I have no desire to play games like CoD either and their existence doesn't bother me. On the other hand, if DA4 came out and was a CoD clone just with a medieval skin, would you be praising and defending it? I loved DA:O and BioWare's other games (KotOR and beyond) they all had the same kind of side quest which I expected in DA:I as well and now it's entirely gone. Outside of the main plot and companion quests I feel like I'm playing WoW and that's not what I signed up for. It breaks my heart that this is the direction BioWare is going (along with other elements I dislike) and I don't think they will ever produce another game that resonates with me the way their games used to.

 

Let me reiterate that I don't mean to imply that you yoursellf were stating that Inquisition was objectively bad or anything.  If it feels like my arguments are directed at you in particular then I apologize.  I just think that some people who feel similarly to how you do refuse to recognize that a game not fitting their ideal criteria is not necessarily indicative of poor quality.  

 

If the next DA game were a CoD clone I doubt I'd be discussing it much at all.  I probably wouldn't even play it.  But I similarly wouldn't insist that it was a bad game and that Bioware was at fault for making it just because the style wasn't right for me.  Again, just for clarity, I'm not saying that you would do that either, but I am certain that there would be tons of posters who would.  

[Nefla]

It isn't, and I explicitly said it wasn't in the post you quoted. I only wanted to differentiate them, not suggest that posting about your preferences was wrong.

Just how did I not make it clear that everything I posted was my opinion and personal feelings? I don't see how "I liked this" "I didn't like this" "this element was boring to me" etc...requires any further "differentiation."

 

 

 

They've said it many times, but funnily enough Darrah reiterated it in the Kotaku session going on right now:
 

Quote

The goal for DAI is for everything you do to, in some way, be feeding back into the Inquisition.

Whether you are strengthening yourself, gaining influence, or solving issues, it all feeds back in

 

Now, I think a fair criticism of this goal would be to suggest that it doesn't include making all those activities interesting in their own right, instead focusing on the building of the Inquisition as gameplay influencing narrative as the interesting part. In other words, they thought, "The player will be naturally interested in completing this quest because it builds the Inquisition."

 

 

Well that's a big problem for me. In what way does reading a note on the ground and doing what it says (finding bear claws, bringing a letter to a mailbox, bringing some flowers to a tree, etc...) strengthen the Inquisition or the Inquisitor? No one even knows you did anything (and why would anyone care?) and there are a ton of quests like that. Even the ones where you actually talk to someone are usually unrelated and very small scale. You're basically a head of state and supposedly have the power to affect nations so why would finding someone's lost Druffalo/ring/elfroot/etc...have any effect on that whatsoever? It's so small-scale that realistically it would have no effect.

 

This kind of thing would make sense in a small scale game where you were the head of the Redcliffe militia for example and the whole game was set in Redcliffe and the surrounding area, your problems were about wolves and bandits and other small things. In that kind of setting, doing little tasks for people would make much more sense because you live among them and helping people would go towards your goal of bolstering the local militia.

 

Those quests don't logically build the inquisition and for many of us they're not fun either.

[Nefla]

Let me reiterate that I don't mean to imply that you yoursellf were stating that Inquisition was objectively bad or anything.  If it feels like my arguments are directed at you in particular then I apologize.  I just think that some people who feel similarly to how you do refuse to recognize that a game not fitting their ideal criteria is not necessarily indicative of poor quality.  

 

If the next DA game were a CoD clone I doubt I'd be discussing it much at all.  I probably wouldn't even play it.  But I similarly wouldn't insist that it was a bad game and that Bioware was at fault for making it just because the style wasn't right for me.  Again, just for clarity, I'm not saying that you would do that either, but I am certain that there would be tons of posters who would.  

Perhaps you should stop arguing with and quoting me then and try arguing with someone who is actually saying those things...

[Phoe77]

They forgot to make the Inquisition important to us. There is some connection, but because you don't really see your power in effect, it just kind of sits there. I look at my 100 power and think "What now?". Little sidequests directly referencing the power, e.g. meeting important nobles, rulers, somebody would have given the whole thing a bit of flavor. Even if they would have only visited Skyhold. 

 

I could agree with this, but I also think it's similar to what ME3 did in regards to war assets.  I wasn't opposed to that mechanic per se, but I know a lot of people didn't like it much.  It would be cool if certain power thresholds were in place that would allow for unique encounters or quests to open up though.

[Phoe77]

Initially I quoted you because a statement you made provided what I thought would be a good introduction to a point that I wanted to make and I thought that referencing it directly would make my point more coherent.  Subsequently, you asked questions that seemed to be related to what I had said, so I responded in an attempt to clarify.  Sorry if it offended you in some way, but it didn't occur to me that I was out of line in doing so.  As a matter of fact, I felt like it would be more rude of me to just ignore you.  

 

But that's all I'm going to say on the subject.