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Anyone else hate Bianca?


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#276
Xilizhra

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my point is that in this setting there is nothing wrong with an organization exercising power that derives from religious authority. 

I would say that that's up to the individual's morals to determine whether or not it's wrong.

 

 

Actually, that's exactly what it means. The Chantry is seen as the law on these matters, so to flout them is wrong. It may be for the right reasons, but it is still against the law thus seen as wrong. 

I would disagree with you about it being wrong. It may be commonly perceived as such, but I wouldn't agree with the common perception here.



#277
Steelcan

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I would say that that's up to the individual's morals to determine whether or not it's wrong.

 

 

I would disagree with you about it being wrong. It may be commonly perceived as such, but I wouldn't agree with the common perception here.

oh please spare me this individualistic nonsense

 

the Chantry has been invested with power and authority to carry out its laws by the Populace of Thedas.  Beyond the most radical elements of the mage rebellion, there is no in-universe movement that contests its ability to do so, the Inquisition skirts close but ultimately does not supplant the Chantry.  People may individually say "well I don't think ___ is right", and good for them, but they do not get to decide what is and is not a broadly accepted authority and are still bound by its laws.



#278
Xilizhra

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oh please spare me this individualistic nonsense

 

the Chantry has been invested with power and authority to carry out its laws by the Populace of Thedas.  Beyond the most radical elements of the mage rebellion, there is no in-universe movement that contests its ability to do so, the Inquisition skirts close but ultimately does not supplant the Chantry.  People may individually say "well I don't think ___ is right", and good for them, but they do not get to decide what is and is not a broadly accepted authority and are still bound by its laws.

Obviously, no one gets to decide that without legal power. But just because the Chantry is powerful doesn't mean that the level of power it holds is morally right.

 

Though I admit, I do wish that the Inquisition could fully supplant the Chantry.



#279
Steelcan

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Obviously, no one gets to decide that without legal power. But just because the Chantry is powerful doesn't mean that the level of power it holds is morally right.

 

Though I admit, I do wish that the Inquisition could fully supplant the Chantry.

its power IS morally right in the eyes of the majority its adherents



#280
Shadow Fox

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its power IS morally right in the eyes of the majority its adherents

Are we really going to get into a Lawful good vs good debate here?



#281
KaiserShep

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You mean the same Inquisition he trusts to help him with personal matters immediately after it is formed?


Because he is a fugitive. Varric knows he is a fugitive, yet aids and abets him. He had good cause to do that, but he still broke the law and was guilty of the crimes he was apprehended for.
Your opinions on the Templars don't matter. That's like saying it is okay to break the law because you think cops are corrupt. Even if they are, it doesn't make what you did any less wrong.


Depends if they knew he if he was a fugitive or not. If they did, then yes.


Yes. He broke the law of the order he willingly joined.

So people should obey every law in effect no matter how unjust one feels a few of them may be? Can't say that this is a mindset to really respect. I imagine people who defied segregation laws or some other bullshit rule would have laughed at this, or gotten really pissed.
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#282
Shadow Fox

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So people should obey every law in effect no matter how unjust one feels a few of them may be? Can't say that this is a mindset to really respect. I imagine people who defied segregation laws or some other bullshit rule would have laughed at this, or gotten really pissed.

This conversation's really happening?

 

...*observes*


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#283
KaiserShep

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This conversation's really happening?
 
...*observes*


I know right? Not sure why I bother. The internet's a hell of a drug.

#284
Shadow Fox

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I know right? Not sure why I bother. The internet's a hell of a drug.

Lawful vs moral debates are like trainwrecks to me.

 

I can't look away.

 

But atleast they don't make me bash my head like religious and political debates.


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#285
silencekills

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Like Fallout 3 and The Brotherhood 'cept I can't kill Bianca...



#286
dragonflight288

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Lawful vs moral debates are like trainwrecks to me.

 

I can't look away.

 

But atleast they don't make me bash my head like religious and political debates.

 

Same here. 

 

Anywho, my take on it. 

 

Whether you morally agree with the Chantry's authority or not, they have been given political power throughout Southern Thedas in many nations, and the templars have been given authority to deal with mages so long as they were part of the Chantry and the Seekers had authority over the Templars so long as they were part of the Chantry and the empires and kingdoms of Thedas respected that authority.

 

When the Templars and Seekers broke away from the Chantry, they in effect lost what authority they had. Cassandra, as of DA2, had not left the Chantry and was acting with Divine Justinia's approval, thus retained her authority within the Chantry hierarchy, and thus was respected as an authority by Kirkwall and the kingdoms of Thedas. 

 

After the explosion at the Conclave, the Chantry was leaderless, the templars were rogue, the mages were rogue and an Inquisition was on the rise. 

 

The Chantry retained its power because of the united faith of Southern Thedas, and the Inquisition gained power either through marshall might, ferreting out secrets or through political maneuvering. 

 

Essentially, the beginning of Inquisition until the end wasn't about lawful good or moral good. It was a "might makes right" situation where the Inquisition became a power in the world because it established itself as something that was solving the world's problems when no one else was, or could. 

 

We couldn't supplant the Chantry, they are too widespread and popular, but we could affect its direction with the choice of a new divine, and we could influence the direction of Thedas in many, many ways. 


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#287
Hanako Ikezawa

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So people should obey every law in effect no matter how unjust one feels a few of them may be? Can't say that this is a mindset to really respect. I imagine people who defied segregation laws or some other bullshit rule would have laughed at this, or gotten really pissed.

I never said that. In fact, I ever said they can break the law, thus doing something wrong, for the right reasons. The people in your example I think we can all agree did the right thing, but the fact remains that they broke the law thus did something that is considered wrong to do something right.

 

Another example: A man steals a loaf of bread to feed his family. 

Did he do the right thing? Yes

Did he do it by doing something wrong? Yes

 

So when Varric gets arrested for aiding and abetting fugitives, that act of arresting him is justified since he did do something wrong, even if it was for the right reasons. 



#288
silencekills

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I'm sure this has something to do with Bianca, but i'll be damned if I'm going to look through twelve pages worth of comments to figure out how.

 

So, no, you're wrong. 

 

Instant discussion stoker. 



#289
Steelcan

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I think the templars would say the Chantry had surrendered its mandate when they refused to uphold certain laws.  If the Nevarran accords are null and void then they are entitled to resume their former methods of dealing with mages deemed dangerous

 

Not saying I agree with it wholly, but its not as if there is no justification



#290
Ynqve

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I can't fault Varric for being a true bro. I love that his loyalty is with people, not organizations. As far as Varric's concerned, there's no need for Cass to know where Hawke is. And what's the first thing he do after he realizes that Hawke IS needed (after the attack on Haven)? He contacts him/her to help the Inquisition. 

 

Varric is a lot of things but he's not a bad guy. 


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#291
Hanako Ikezawa

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Varric is a lot of things but he's not a bad guy. 

Yes. Yes he is. 



#292
Ynqve

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Yes. Yes he is. 

 

No. He really isn't. But we've had this conversation before so let's just agree to disagree. 


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#293
Dragonzzilla

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Bianca: ". . . And I'll feed you your own eyes."

Qunari Inquisitor: "You're going to need a ladder first."


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#294
Hanako Ikezawa

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No. He really isn't. But we've had this conversation before so let's just agree to disagree. 

He cheats, he steals, he kills, he lies, etc. Yes, he is a bad guy. 

 

Fine. 


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#295
AresKeith

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He cheats, he steals, he kills, he lies, etc. Yes, he is a bad guy. 

 

Fine. 

 

Wouldn't this make a lot of people bad guys?


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#296
Hanako Ikezawa

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Wouldn't this make a lot of people bad guys?

Yes. I think Dragon Age has proved that a lot of the population is made of bad people. 


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#297
LobselVith8

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Like Fallout 3 and The Brotherhood 'cept I can't kill Bianca...

 

I liked Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel myself.



#298
Shadow Fox

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Bianca: ". . . And I'll feed you your own eyes."

Qunari Inquisitor: "You're going to need a ladder first."

Or

 

Mage Inquisitor: "You do realize I can set you on fire with just a thought yes?"



#299
Lady Artifice

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This thread got weirder. 



#300
Ynqve

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He cheats, he steals, he kills, he lies, etc. Yes, he is a bad guy. 

 

Fine. 

 

Name me one of our companions who isn't cheating, stealing, killing or lying. I guess everyone is a bad guy.