Shepard forces peace regularly. We're just more comfortable with that peace being through killing and destroying and hurting, and on the relatively smaller scales. So go ahead, pick Destroy.
He sure does, he usually forces a genetic transformation as well because it's impossible to achieve peace, how could I've forgotten that?
Oh yeah, I will.
*shrugs*
Genetic transformation may not have been immediately acted, but comes from Genophage Cure and Rannoch Peace. Or rather, is slightly implied for the latter, given the already integration into Quarian suits by Geth, and the stories of something similar from Javik.
Synthesis 'cures' the impairment of the Reapers and bring 'peace' to the Organics.
But I guess its okay for people to pick those two things because its a war and war has pressing matters or something. And involves characters we like.
And now we have Krogan and Geth rampant. But haha now we have Wrex+Eve and LegionLord+Tali 
.
Is a genetic transformation, in itself, worse than destroying the Geth and EDI and all the potential within the Reapers?
To some it isn't.
Eventually, it was to me. I picked Destroy.
Genetic transformation may not have been immediately acted, but comes from Genophage Cure and Rannoch Peace. Or rather, is slightly implied for the latter, given the already integration into Quarian suits by Geth, and the stories of something similar from Javik.
Synthesis 'cures' the impairment of the Reapers and bring 'peace' to the Organics.
But I guess its okay for people to pick those two things because its a war and war has pressing matters or something. And involves characters we like.
And now we have Krogan and Geth rampant. But haha now we have Wrex+Eve and LegionLord+Tali
Is a genetic transformation, in itself, worse than destroying the Geth and EDI and all the potential within the Reapers?
To some it isn't.
Eventually, it was to me. I picked Destroy.
Genetic transformation may not have been immediately acted, but comes from Genophage Cure and Rannoch Peace. Or rather, is slightly implied for the latter, given the already integration into Quarian suits by Geth, and the stories of something similar from Javik.
Synthesis 'cures' the impairment of the Reapers and bring 'peace' to the Organics.
But I guess its okay for people to pick those two things because its a war and war has pressing matters or something. And involves characters we like.
And now we have Krogan and Geth rampant. But haha now we have Wrex+Eve and LegionLord+Tali
Is a genetic transformation, in itself, worse than destroying the Geth and EDI and all the potential within the Reapers?
To some it isn't.
Eventually, it was to me. I picked Destroy.
It's funny you should say that because when it all comes down to it all we really have in life is the illusion of free will so control and synthesis isn't really that bad when you think about it this would concept especially apply for religious groups.Look, if you are now picking Synthesis and support it, that's fine by me, I won't condemn you or the reasons that led you for choosing it. I still don't believe that Synthesis is suitable, I just can't change everything, lose individuality, but that's just me.
To be honest, after learning how the EMS system work and passing through the worst ending, the first version of destroy, I went with Control for at least four times, but my view about it changed over the months, if the galaxy is always going to destroy itself without the reaper's interference (Ironic), so be it, but I'll at least know that nobody was being forced into anything, and that organics trailed their own path, but I don't believe that will happen again, the Catalyst is a package full of lies. I go with Destroy, sure, it backfires and it sucks, but everyone knew what was at stake, even EDI accepts sacrificing herself for the greater good, each to their own.
Look, if you are now picking Synthesis and support it, that's fine by me, I won't condemn you or the reasons that led you for choosing it. I still don't believe that Synthesis is suitable, I just can't change everything, lose individuality, but that's just me.
To be honest, after learning how the EMS system work and passing through the worst ending, the first version of destroy, I went with Control for at least four times, but my view about it changed over the months, if the galaxy is always going to destroy itself without the reaper's interference (Ironic), so be it, but I'll at least know that nobody was being forced into anything, and that organics trailed their own path, but I don't believe that will happen again, the Catalyst is a package full of lies. I go with Destroy, sure, it backfires and it sucks, but everyone knew what was at stake, even EDI accepts sacrificing herself for the greater good, each to their own.
Wat. I picked Destroy. Breath Destroy.
I picked Synthesis once but then redid the choice as Destroy since. Never picked Control.
Well it's certainly possible for synthetics to outstrip organics in terms of troops eventually, since they wouldn't need 16+ years to create a new solider, and don't suffer from fatigue and injury as easily as organics can. Also - and I think this point is missed most times this argument happens - the Catalyst is the Bad Guy. You don't have to agree with him. For example, my decision to choose Synthesis on my first playthrough was initially based on how Geth-Quarian conflict turned out in my game.
Then again, no matter how much I try to justify it, I fear you'd always have an anti-synthetic bias, what with you definitely not being Admiral Xen.
Synthetics have their own disadvantages too. Synthetics can be hacked. Synthetics can be destabilized by EMP and similar weaponry. Synthetics do not have regenerative healing capabilities. Synthetics require highly refined resources and manufactories in order to be produced.
Perhaps most importantly, they need a power supply of some kind, which is something that was never seriously touched upon in-game at all and was something that could've represented the Reapers' Achilles heel.
Imagine if the Reapers' advantage in the War is only temporary because they draw their power from the Citadel and Mass Relays, and if they go too long without firing all of them at once, their power will decline so greatly that conventional victory against them is not only possible, but easy? That would've added an entirely new dimension to the story and would have required no Catalyst or debate; merely action.
Just like Shepard said in ME1, "You're a machine, and machines can be broken!" Kind of a silly line, but all too true and it would've been ever so poetic if the Reapers' power was balanced by a thirst for energy and the untimely destruction of Sovereign and the need to travel through Dark Space put them on the edge of their own demise.
But with synthesis you gain what would be countless years of knowledge and understanding not to mention the technological advancments that it would lead to that's gotta be worth somthing right?
Wat. I picked Destroy. Breath Destroy.
I picked Synthesis once but then redid the choice as Destroy since. Never picked Control.
Synthetics have their own disadvantages too. Synthetics can be hacked. Synthetics can be destabilized by EMP and similar weaponry. Synthetics do not have regenerative healing capabilities. Synthetics require highly refined resources and manufactories in order to be produced.
Perhaps most importantly, they need a power supply of some kind, which is something that was never seriously touched upon in-game at all and was something that could've represented the Reapers' Achilles heel.
Imagine if the Reapers' advantage in the War is only temporary because they draw their power from the Citadel and Mass Relays, and if they go too long without firing all of them at once, their power will decline so greatly that conventional victory against them is not only possible, but easy? That would've added an entirely new dimension to the story and would have required no Catalyst or debate; merely action.
Just like Shepard said in ME1, "You're a machine, and machines can be broken!" Kind of a silly line, but all too true and it would've been ever so poetic if the Reapers' power was balanced by a thirst for energy and the untimely destruction of Sovereign and the need to travel through Dark Space put them on the edge of their own demise?
What I found the most strange and what convinced me in the end that Synthesis is a trap set by the Reaper control AI was that everyone was completely fine with Reapers, husks and other reaper ground forces. There is absolutely no way most people would be fine with seeing hordes of their own people turned into that and strolling around as if nothing happened. Not unless something drastic was done to their minds, something that took away their ability to have the emotional reactions quite expected in such times.
Which means, yes Synthesis does achieve peace, possibly even for eternity, for ever and ever but the price, a complete and utter limitation of life, of evolution, things like music, poetry and the great works of written fiction they come from the places in our minds where chaos rules. They come out of emotion, not always nice, not always good but it all has place. Without that, without the ability to look at Reapers, husks and be horrified and repulsed by the whole idea of what they are and what was done are the people after synthesis even in control of their minds anymore? For all intents and purposes they could still be doing the same things, going around the galaxy as if nothing has happened but in certain times, in certain conditions their new "nature" would assert control preventing them from creating synthetics, preventing them from doing certain things that the Reaper AI deems "dangerous".
So peace by wholesale indoctrination of the all sapient species in the galaxy? I would rather risk a war.
What I found the most strange and what convinced me in the end that Synthesis is a trap set by the Reaper control AI was that everyone was completely fine with Reapers, husks and other reaper ground forces. There is absolutely no way most people would be fine with seeing hordes of their own people turned into that and strolling around as if nothing happened. Not unless something drastic was done to their minds, something that took away their ability to have the emotional reactions quite expected in such times.
Which means, yes Synthesis does achieve peace, possibly even for eternity, for ever and ever but the price, a complete and utter limitation of life, of evolution, things like music, poetry and the great works of written fiction they come from the places in our minds where chaos rules. They come out of emotion, not always nice, not always good but it all has place. Without that, without the ability to look at Reapers, husks and be horrified and repulsed by the whole idea of what they are and what was done are the people after synthesis even in control of their minds anymore? For all intents and purposes they could still be doing the same things, going around the galaxy as if nothing has happened but in certain times, in certain conditions their new "nature" would assert control preventing them from creating synthetics, preventing them from doing certain things that the Reaper AI deems "dangerous".
So peace by wholesale indoctrination of the all sapient species in the galaxy? I would rather risk a war.
My thoughts exactly.
In my first playthrough I initially picked Synthesis, because hey, peace between everyone sounds like such a nice solution.
When I saw afterwards what I've actually done it didn't sit well with me. I re-loaded the final sequence right away and picked Destroy. Never will do anything else.
I also would rather risk a war between Organics and Synthetics, because that would at least be a fate that these races themselves chose.
My thoughts exactly.
In my first playthrough I initially picked Synthesis, because hey, peace between everyone sounds like such a nice solution.
When I saw afterwards what I've actually done it didn't sit well with me. I re-loaded the final sequence right away and picked Destroy. Never will do anything else.
I also would rather risk a war between Organics and Synthetics, because that would at least be a fate that these races themselves chose.
Yeah, the first playthrough I could not believe what I saw so I reloaded and tried all 3 endings before going online and finding that in fact what I got was what everyone else got, my choice as destroy was the one I stuck with because the others simply did not sit well with me.
One of the things I never quite understood about Synthesis, is why the Catalyst believes this solution will bring about eternal peace.
There a lot of elements from this ending that could be singled out for being nonsensical, but I'm going to focus on it as a solution to war. The Catalyst believes that synthetics and organics are so different from one another that they cannot coexist, and it sees war and possibly extinction as an inevitable conclusion. It's solution then is to turn both into cyborgs, in the belief that eliminating differences between them will allow them to coexist.
But here is where it fails: War is not driven by physical differences. Wars are caused by differences in ideology. Assuming for a moment that the Catalyst is correct about war being synthetics and organics being inevitable, the reason for that war would not be because the two look different from one another...that war would spring from the fact that their minds are alien compared to the other. So as a solution synthesis would not guarantee peace, unless it also altered their minds to be similar and and in lock step. In which case, we are now talking about something similar to indoctrination.
War is the inevitable result of scarcity of resources. Plus the inherent aggressive nature of living beings.
As long as any "solution" doesn't get rid of ALL scarcities, then we won't have a solution.
Star Trek did a far better job introducing a solution by suggesting the Food synthesizer among other things.
The whole premise of the catalyst is illogical on a fundamental level. And it gets worse the more you think about it.
Well, Synthesis is quite frankly one of the main problems the ending had in the first place. It lies outside the common sense and allowable "suspension of disbelief" that an audience has for sci-fi. I mean the whole green ending couldn't have been written any worse if they stated that unicorns and rainbows showed up and everyone was suddenly happy. It was written obviously to appeal to the whole collectivist utopian types who think its perfectly okay to wipe out all sense of individualism and diversity and make everyone think and look exactly the same as each other.
Just ignore that choice and suddenly the game and ending is much more palatable.
For the Catalyst, the conflict between organic and synthetic is based on the differences that separate them. Organics see their creations as devices without consciousness, lesser beings, slaves, and in fact will see signs of consciousness as signs of malfunction. Synthetics will see attempts to correct this "malfunction" as acts of violence, and eventually react to defend themselves. Because each cannot see the other side of things this emnity will continue until Synthesis provides them with the experience of the other side of the conflict. Organics will see the "humanity" (or you know, whatever the alien eqivalent is) in synthetics, and synthetics wil understand what lay behind the organic fear. This won't end all war, but the Catalyst only wants to end one war.
And this is different from organic prejudice against other organics how? Even within human history?
But given time and effort, these are prejudices we can overcome ourselves. Waving a magic wand of "organic energy" to magically make everyone understand each other is frankly, beneath Bioware. It's the very shortcut that the trilogy was beating us over the heard with as at best pointless and at worst a disaster in the making.
One of the things I never quite understood about Synthesis, is why the Catalyst believes this solution will bring about eternal peace.
There a lot of elements from this ending that could be singled out for being nonsensical, but I'm going to focus on it as a solution to war. The Catalyst believes that synthetics and organics are so different from one another that they cannot coexist, and it sees war and possibly extinction as an inevitable conclusion. It's solution then is to turn both into cyborgs, in the belief that eliminating differences between them will allow them to coexist.
And this is different from organic prejudice against other organics how? Even within human history?
But EDI can understand or at least relate to the organic needs and desires even has them herself. And geth, I wish the geth were left as they were. Their concept of intelligence was fascinating.
All the synthetic Pinocchios get turned into Real Boys. Somehow. Whatever that actually means.
Oh, and Organics can now go out and upgrade their RAM or something. Maybe have a solid state drive installed.
Well, Synthesis is quite frankly one of the main problems the ending had in the first place. It lies outside the common sense and allowable "suspension of disbelief" that an audience has for sci-fi.
Actually synthesis is a trope as old as the sci fi genre itself.
Actually synthesis is a trope as old as the sci fi genre itself.
True(Battlestar Galactica 2004 is a good example) but not the way it was presented in ME3, during the ME1 and ME2 and most of ME3 we were constantly shown that organic and synthetic fusion is not pretty(Saren, husks, other reaper forces) that it is a threat, that it goes against the grain of the species shown in MEU.
Also in most scifi the kind of synthesis, union of flesh and machine is a choice, a deliberate conscious choice on the part of the person which then leads to all kinds of exploration of the concept of what is it to be human.
Another good example is Ghost in the Shell, where the main character is basically 90% synthetic, cyborg in all but brain, which cannot be seen and so plays the role of the human "soul". As in you think its there, but you cannot feel it or prove it to yourself. In the TV series they constantly explore how forced synthesis, forced cybernetics lead to quite a few unsavoury situations. Its a really good series.
Snip
Check out the ending of the novel Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov (1982). Which is widely thought to be the main inspiration for the last 10 minutes of ME3
Check out the ending of the novel Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov (1982). Which is widely thought to be the main inspiration for the last 10 minutes of ME3
Yeah, I am finding myself in disagreement with Asimov's later works. He was one of the few who could take a complicated idea and write it well but I just can't get myself to like that sort of thing. Complicated ideas are fine but more often than not the pinnacle of the story, what supposed to bring it all together is anti-climactic.
Check out the ending of the novel Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov (1982). Which is widely thought to be the main inspiration for the last 10 minutes of ME3
Annoyingly not the inspiration for all the minutes preceding the ending. It's not a good idea to write in a grander, contradictory, and quite evidently convoluted theme after the climax.
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