165 réponses à ce sujet

[The Arbiter]

 I'm the one jumping to conclusions?    you just typed an essay full of them. All I did was point out a clear observation that you are speculating and making assumptions about past cycles synthetics based on Geth behavior and events from our current cycle.

 

 

Yes, we actually do know that organics whom were harvested in previous cycles did indeed have other synthetics around at the time. And yes , there were synthetics during the Prothean cycle. Says Javik. He would know. He was there.

 

No, the Morning War in no way invalidates any of the Catalysts claims. No, the last organic/synthetic conflict was not from the Leviathan cycle. It was from last cycle. Then most recently in our cycle. If your point is that no organic civilizations have been wiped out by their synthetic creations since the beginning of the cycles, you should also realize that its because the Reapers arrive before it's even a possibility. Which is their purpose.

 

Where are the other synthetics from past cycles? Guess you missed that Catalyst conversation where it clearly states it harvests all advanced civilizations. Organic and synthetic.

 

You're right about one thing though. Leviathan did observe organic civilizations being wiped out by rogue AIs before the cycles.

Read my post again it is all theories with "?" [question marks] not with a period [.] and the other half are taken out from the storyline of the game itself.

 

"You assume that all previous synthetics were exactly like the Geth or that every previous organic/synthetic conflict came about in the same exact way."

 

"Where are the other synthetics from past cycles? Guess you missed that Catalyst conversation where it clearly states it harvests all advanced civilizations." ???

 

I never heard the catalyst say that it "HARVESTED ALL ADVANCED CIVILIZATIONS Synthetics included" no "Synthetics" it only stated "all advanced civilizations" what kind? Organics? or Both? My arguments are all based on theories with their respective conclusions not one assumption. If this is the case then it only strengthens my theories that the other synthetics was forced to make an alliance with their masters the same way in our cycle to defeat the real threat... the Reapers which would then invalidate the "created will always rebel against the creators" but would rather be a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the friend of my enemy is my enemy".

 

Protheans created synthetics? what kind? did it revolt against them? did it start a war? please do link me to a citation

 

Also you still haven't answered my question... why did the Catalyst helped the Geth as well as went through the hassle of communicating with them in an attempt to make a "pact" while an Ancient organic civilization which attempted the same got wiped out instantly? 

[Mcfly616]

 

I never heard the catalyst say that it "HARVESTED ALL ADVANCED CIVILIZATIONS Synthetics included" no "Synthetics" it only stated "all advanced civilizations" what kind? Organics? or Both? My arguments are all based on theories with their respective conclusions not one assumption. If this is the case then it only strengthens my theories that the other synthetics was forced to make an alliance with their masters the same way in our cycle to defeat the real threat... the Reapers.

 

Protheans created synthetics? what kind? did it revolt against them? did it start a war? please do link me to a citation

you never heard....Then maybe you should talk to the Catalyst again. Maybe put aside your disdain for it just for a second, and you will hear what it has to say (maybe). No advanced civs make it out of any cycle/harvest. Organic or synthetic.

 

 

We don't know if the Protheans were responsible for creating the synthetics of their cycle. But someone did, as we know they were present at the time. They're called the Zhatil. The Protheans did go to war with them. No need to link a citation when all you need to do is talk to Javik.

[The Arbiter]

you never heard....Then maybe you should talk to the Catalyst again. Maybe put aside your disdain for it just for a second, and you will hear what it has to say (maybe). No advanced civs make it out of any cycle/harvest. Organic or synthetic.

 

 

I'm not sure if the Protheans were responsible for creating the synthetics of their cycle. But someone did, as they were present at the time. They're called the Zhatil. The Protheans did go to war with them. No need to link a citation when all you need to do is talk to Javik.

also the metacons? yes it seems the protheans did not create them... this is interesting... could they be leftovers from the cycles before the Protheans? why didn't the reapers take them out if they would go haywire and go start off another war again? does not make sense at all

[Mcfly616]

also the metacons? yes it seems the protheans did not create them... this is interesting... could they be leftovers from the cycles before the Protheans?

 I believe they're one in the same. Javik refers to the Prothean-Zhatil conflict as the "Metacon War". Much the same way we refer to the Geth-Quarian conflict as the " Morning War".

[The Arbiter]

 I believe they're one in the same. Javik refers to the Prothean-Zhatil conflict as the "Metacon War". Much the same way we refer to the Geth-Quarian conflict as the " Morning War".

wait wait wait... it says here that the Zha'til where organics which implanted themselves in order to save themselves in their inhospitable home world look -> The zha'til were a synthetic race that existed at the time of the Protheans. They originated when a race known as the zha implanted themselves with symbiotic AI technology to enhance their intelligence in order to survive as their homeworld became inhospitable. When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely.

 

wait so they weren't hostile? did the Reapers just... started a war in order to justify their purge?

[Dr. Rush]

To the OP, its not a solution to prevent war. Its a solution to prevent the extinction of organic life. 

 

War will still very likely occur within the synthesized populations of the galaxy, but there are no longer biological divides by which to exterminate certain "kinds" of life. Organic life and synthetic life are both permanently part of the galaxy, that is the solution synthesis provides.

[themikefest]

The catalyst does say that it harvests all life - both organic and synthetic.

https://youtu.be/yx_smmq_3AE?t=4m20s

[The Arbiter]

The catalyst does say that it harvests all life - both organic and synthetic.

https://youtu.be/yx_smmq_3AE?t=4m20s

A thank you for posting it I've missed this one. Well no wonder Legion and his people sided with the Organics... this may also be true with past cycles. Organics and synthetics fighting a war then the Reapers intervene... the two races come together because their existence are at risk but many times they have been wiped out or should I say... "preserved"

[Han Shot First]

Not true at all. Leviathan even tells you that civilizations were falling to their creations left and right. Which is what inspired them to create the Catalyst in the first place.

 

 

The Geth being "fairly peaceful" is rather irrelevant. Nobody said that synthetics were always the instigators. Just that organics and synthetics cannot coexist. Similar to what the Catalyst suggested of Leviathan, organics fail to see that they are part of the problem.

 

The Leviathan thralls were subjugated races. They may not have even have fielded military forces. In fact considering the nature of the Leviathan's Empire, it was probably unlikely. Any faction that fell to a synthetic rebellion before the Leviathans put it down was likely ill-equipped to fight back.

 

The Catalyst assumes that the synthetics and organics cannont coexist without an apocalyptic war where the organics are annihilated, but the Geth demonstrate that this is not so. They lack both the desire and the ability to annihilate the organic factions of the galaxy. 

 

I believe they're one in the same. Javik refers to the Prothean-Zhatil conflict as the "Metacon War". Much the same way we refer to the Geth-Quarian conflict as the " Morning War".

 

The Metacons and the Zhatil were seperate factions. The Metacons were fully synthetic while the Zhatil were cyborgs created by a species formerly known as the Zha. The Metacon War occured prior to contact with the Reapers and led to the creation of the Prothean Empire, while the Zhatil were the equivalent of the Collectors or ME1's Geth for the Protheans. The Zhatil were Reaper mooks. The Protheans won the Metacon War and successfully destroyed the Zhatil before the close of the Reaper War.

 

To the OP, its not a solution to prevent war. Its a solution to prevent the extinction of organic life.

War will still very likely occur within the synthesized populations of the galaxy, but there are no longer biological divides by which to exterminate certain "kinds" of life. Organic life and synthetic life are both permanently part of the galaxy, that is the solution synthesis provides.

 

That reasoning on the part of the Catalyst does not make sense however. Making every form of life in the galaxy a cyborg isn't any less likely to prevent war, or xenocide. Humans are biologically identical to each other...yet we've found no shortage excuses to engage in mass slaughter and genocide countless times throughout our own history. Eliminating physical differences isn't any less likely to prevent war or mass murder.

 

The only way the Catalyst's solution works if it is also rewiring the minds of the life forms being converted into cyborgs. 

[katamuro]

I just understood while making myself tea. The whole Reaper thing is because whoever programmed the Starbrat AI didn't debug properly. Its a coding error. Because it was given such vague orders and no understand of morality(same as leviathans i guess) the only solution it came up with was total control of the galaxy, total subjugation of advanced organics when its time. 

 

so lets learn a lesson from this and review the code we write from now on more diligently. I would be insulted if I got killed by Skynet because of a coding error.

[SolNebula]

The only thing I'm sure about is that Synthesis is the only way of putting a tombstone on this franchise.

[Dr. Rush]

That reasoning on the part of the Catalyst does not make sense however. Making every form of life in the galaxy a cyborg isn't any less likely to prevent war, or xenocide. Humans are biologically identical to each other...yet we've found no shortage excuses to engage in mass slaughter and genocide countless times throughout our own history. Eliminating physical differences isn't any less likely to prevent war or mass murder.

 

The only way the Catalyst's solution works if it is also rewiring the minds of the life forms being converted into cyborgs. 

 

I think you are missing the point that there is essentially no threat to successfully wiping out all organic life in the galaxy other than synthetic life. That is the premise. Not the Rachni, not the Krogan, not anyone else. Only synthetics will engage in a war with organics that will result in the inevitable extinction of all organic life. You don't have to agree with that premise, I'm not trying to convince you to like it. But that is what ME trilogy is about. Its not about murder or war, its about extinction. No other conflict results in an inevitable extinction outcome other than the organic vs synthetic conflict, thus it is the most important conflict in the galaxy of Mass Effect.

[The Arbiter]

I just understood while making myself tea. The whole Reaper thing is because whoever programmed the Starbrat AI didn't debug properly. Its a coding error. Because it was given such vague orders and no understand of morality(same as leviathans i guess) the only solution it came up with was total control of the galaxy, total subjugation of advanced organics when its time. 

 

so lets learn a lesson from this and review the code we write from now on more diligently. I would be insulted if I got killed by Skynet because of a coding error.

this is what I precisely stated weeks ago about a galactic law or code among civilizations

[The Arbiter]

I think you are missing the point that there is essentially no threat to successfully wiping out all organic life in the galaxy other than synthetic life. That is the premise. Not the Rachni, not the Krogan, not anyone else. Only synthetics will engage in a war with organics that will result in the inevitable extinction of all organic life. You don't have to agree with that premise, I'm not trying to convince you to like it. But that is what ME trilogy is about. Its not about murder or war, its about extinction. No other conflict results in an inevitable extinction outcome other than the organic vs synthetic conflict, thus it is the most important conflict in the galaxy of Mass Effect.

[Dr. Rush]

Yeah, and the idea is that on a cosmic timeline measured in thousands or millions of years, that peace will inevitably dissolve. I'm not saying its right, I'm saying that is what is presented as fact after millions of years of conflict in the ME Galaxy. By all means, refuse to believe it, but it is the premise by which the Reapers reap and the problem to which synthesis is a solution to. 

[Iakus]

I have seen no "facts" in the game about synthetics inevitably desttroying all organic life.  All I've seen is a lot of conjecture based on secondhand information provided by unreliable sources.