555 réponses à ce sujet

[9TailsFox]

They make the gameplay a lot more exciting and gratifying.

Exactly. Wait we still talking about sex, yes?

[BabyPuncher]

Oh. Crap. I thought this was about kill animations.

[Spellbound7]

No one? I skip GoT, The Sopranos, Deadwood, and a myriad of other TV and films for the same reasons I pass on some games: profanity, and excess sex and violence. And based on the content advisories, I doubt I am alone.

And DAO is a fairly good example of how to maturely discuss matters of a sexual and violent nature without resorting to illustrating them. The scenes and poem of the Broodmother is one of the most memorable sections of the game, and sim tales are told in the Denerim Alienage and Haven.

Of course these are my opinions, but are worth no more or less than others. But I repeat, which betters the stories? BSN itself is a better forum than many because of Terms of Service restrictions and moderation; same could be applied to the games themselves.

 

Again, not everything has to better the stories. Some elements can be there simply to give the world credibility. Sex is one of them. Did you expect humans in Thedas never had sex? What did you expect would happen when you wooed someone? Was Dorian just supposed to dry-hump my Inquisitor fully clothed and call it a day? Sex is a believable followup to two sexual individuals who feel mutual attraction. Beside, I don't know what the other intimate romance scenes were like, but Dorian's was pretty vanilla (you saw his ass), and then him and Inquisitor guy had a heart to heart - y'know, some character development.

 

Sex is about realism in a world filled with sexual beings. It has its place in a game like the Witcher because holy crap, that one grimdark universe. Doggy style should be the last thing that disturbs you in that game.

 

Also I'm baffled you disregard GoT because of the sex scenes. Granted, it's not family-friendly, but still... what a shame I hope you at least read the books.

[Elhanan]

Again, not everything has to better the stories. Some elements can be there simply to give the world credibility. Sex is one of them. Did you expect humans in Thedas never had sex? What did you expect would happen when you wooed someone? Was Dorian just supposed to dry-hump my Inquisitor fully clothed and call it a day? Sex is a believable followup to two sexual individuals who feel mutual attraction. Beside, I don't know what the other intimate romance scenes were like, but Dorian's was pretty vanilla (you saw his ass), and then him and Inquisitor guy had a heart to heart - y'know, some character development.
 
Sex is about realism in a world filled with sexual beings. It has its place in a game like the Witcher because holy crap, that one grimdark universe. Doggy style should be the last thing that disturbs you in that game.
 
Also I'm baffled you disregard GoT because of the sex scenes. Granted, it's not family-friendly, but still... what a shame I hope you at least read the books.

Not a fan of the author; his works reportedly never end, so nothing by him at all. BTW - He will not be involved with next season of GoT. And it is more of the reported profanity, incest, rapes, and other sexual matters that go beyond romance that keep me away.

Personally, I simply head canon that sex and nudity are prevalent in the homes; do not require seeing it any more than in RL. And I treat many of the romances the same way; a reason why am I am fond of the treatment received by Scout Harding, and broken hearted by Aveline.

[BabyPuncher]

It's true. There's no reason the story needs to explicitly show sex. The idea that if we don't see it, it doesn't happen is nonsensical.

[AlanC9]

It's true. There's no reason the story needs to explicitly show sex. .

I agree. Of course, saying that the story doesn't need to explicitly show sex isn't any kind of an argument against explicitly showing sex.

[Lilithor]

I make a good troll, right?

Don't know what should I answer since it is April 1st x_x"

[Archerwarden]

Why should games be a moral arbiter anyway? Why do they need to have a moral message? One of the best things about the opening up of a more tolerant society in recent years is the ability to behave as one wants without condemnation or harassment. I am sure Bioware would agree with this in principle, but then they shove a moral agenda down our throats and allow no deviation. My morality may differ from your morality. I don't try to dictate your morality and I would prefer if you didn't dictate mine. So please let's give the player the freedom to behave however they want in their private world where their decisions affect no-one but themselves.

Agree with this. Thought DAO did a good job with morality choices by giving the player options through dialog, characters, and quest choices.
The last thing I want is for a developer to eliminate choices because it may offend someone. Goodness, time will come when swords will be deemed to violent, pretty well developed females to racy or suggestive, desire demons too whatever,romance scenes too much skin, too explicit for a 16 year old, that axe animation to gory and real and the list goes on. Developers will stop putting them in their games because someone is offended. What we as players will get is bland, boring games with nothing to do but walk around and admire the view singing kumbaya songs. oh wait...

[Elhanan]

^ If such a case were true, then CRPG's would not have arrived to this point at all. Simply put, because most earlier games did not have the graphical capability to include nudity and sexual exhibitions. Most did not even have romances as far as I recall.

The lack of such material does not equate to bland storytelling.

[Realmzmaster]

^ If such a case were true, then CRPG's would not have arrived to this point at all. Simply put, because most earlier games did not have the graphical capability to include nudity and sexual exhibitions. Most did not even have romances as far as I recall.

The lack of such material does not equate to bland storytelling.

 

Actually Baldur's Gate series did have romances. Many of the early cRPGs from Wizardry to Ultima to Bards Tale did not and they had no trouble with storytelling. In fact Icewind Dale ! & 2 had no romamces at all and are considered a good cRPGs.

 

Sex, nudity, profanity may or may not add to the experience but none are needed. Planescape Torment shows that sometimes even violence is not necessary to arrive at a good story. 

[Doctorkepler]

Torment had whores in the streets. 

[Spellbound7]

Again, again, sex is not necessarily about storytelling. It's about a believable world. All the objections I've heard against the depiction of sex amount to, "I don't like it." You are allowed to not like things as much as you want, but the fact remains there is nothing wrong with sex. If you want mature content out of an M-rated game, I suggest you not play it altogether (optional content, I might add, in the case of the Dragon Age games), it's your choice as a consumer. If it bothers you that much, just avoid it.

[AlanC9]

Sex, nudity, profanity may or may not add to the experience but none are needed. Planescape Torment shows that sometimes even violence is not necessary to arrive at a good story.

Now I'm trying to imagine an RPG that only contains elements which really are needed.

[Elhanan]

Actually Baldur's Gate series did have romances. Many of the early cRPGs from Wizardry to Ultima to Bards Tale did not and they had no trouble with storytelling. In fact Icewind Dale ! & 2 had no romamces at all and are considered a good cRPGs.
 
Sex, nudity, profanity may or may not add to the experience but none are needed. Planescape Torment shows that sometimes even violence is not necessary to arrive at a good story.

I was thinking of the pre-Baldur's gate games, such as The Gold Box series.

[Realmzmaster]

I was thinking of the pre-Baldur's gate games, such as The Gold Box series.

 

Which is why I also mentioned the Wizardry, Ultima and Bard's Tale which had no romances that I remember but had good story telling.

 

Neverwinter Nights had romances that were done rather nicely and complemented the storytelling.

[BabyPuncher]

Again, again, sex is not necessarily about storytelling. It's about a believable world. All the objections I've heard against the depiction of sex amount to, "I don't like it." You are allowed to not like things as much as you want, but the fact remains there is nothing wrong with sex. If you want mature content out of an M-rated game, I suggest you not play it altogether (optional content, I might add, in the case of the Dragon Age games), it's your choice as a consumer. If it bothers you that much, just avoid it.

 

No, it's not a more believable world at all. Unless you somehow believe that sex only exists in the fictional universe if it's shoved under your nose, which would be pretty stupid.
 

[Spellbound7]

No, it's not a more believable world at all. Unless you somehow believe that sex only exists in the fictional universe if it's shoved under your nose, which would be pretty stupid.
 

 

I said it fleshes out the world more (therefore, yes, it does make it more believable), not that it can't exist if not depicted. You don't HAVE to show it, but does is detract from the narrative if it's visually presented and not just mentioned or implied? Yes, it's assumed people in Thedas have sex, even if it were never mentioned or shown. No, there's nothing wrong with showing it IN AN M-RATED GAME. I don't mean to say that you need to have sex in a game for adults but 'it makes me uncomfotable' or 'ew sex yucky' or even 'doesnt advance the plot' are all bad arguments.

 

I should just like to point out that I don't really feel the need for there to be sex scenes in games either. I'm perfectly fine with start undressing --> fade to black --> sex done. However, it makes sense to have it in a game like the Witcher where the tone itself is far more mature. It's not REQUIRED, but it doesn't devalue the game either.

[BabyPuncher]

I don't mean to say that you need to have sex in a game for adults...

 

Is that right? It sounds to me like that's exactly what you 'mean to say.' That since this is a 'game for adults' (ah ha ha ha...ha) more explicit sex equates to more believability and maturity.

 

 

[Spellbound7]

Is that right? It sounds to me like that's exactly what you 'mean to say.' That since this is a 'game for adults' (ah ha ha ha...ha) more explicit sex equates to more believability and maturity.

 

I literally stated a few sentences earlier that you don't have to have sex scenes in games, but that there's nothing wrong if they are present. Pay attention.

 

Also the game for adults thing is based of the M rating it has. Children should technically not be playing this, even though imo DA:I is vanilla enough for younger people to enjoy it... if it were an enjoyable game, ie.

[BabyPuncher]

I literally stated a few sentences earlier that you don't have to have sex scenes in games, but that there's nothing wrong if they are present. Pay attention.

 

No, what you said was that it's okay not to have sex scenes if you're willing to make your story 'less believable.' So, clearly, for a storyteller to make the best 'adult' story possible, the most believable story, explicit sex scenes are a necessity. Isn't that right? 

[Terodil]

There's more sex to be seen on an afternoon TV show than in DA:I.

Also, 

The last thing I want is for a developer to eliminate choices because it may offend someone. Goodness, time will come when swords will be deemed to violent, pretty well developed females to racy or suggestive, desire demons too whatever, romance scenes too much skin, too explicit for a 16 year old, that axe animation to gory and real and the list goes on. Developers will stop putting them in their games because someone is offended. What we as players will get is bland, boring games with nothing to do but walk around and admire the view singing kumbaya songs. oh wait...

Indeed. So much this. Make of my underlining what you will.

I also think that there's one thing that has changed over the last decades, and that's the ability of society to go into a free-wheeling "moral outrage mode". Companies have become so afraid of shitstorms that they pre-emptively remove anything that can offend. This also answers Elhanan's question why things are different today than they used to be in the past (though I'm beginning to suspect that E. has put me on ignore). And some of the most vocal groups have a lot of power via their excellent command of media manipulation.

No, what you said was that it's okay not to have sex scenes if you're willing to make your story 'less believable.' So, clearly, for a storyteller to make the best 'adult' story possible, the most believable story, explicit sex scenes are a necessity. Isn't that right?

Huh? I think we established that sex is integral part of human society. Without it, we'd actually die out. So what is more believable/realistic? A world with sex or a world without?

[BabyPuncher]

Huh? I think we established that sex is integral part of human society. Without it, we'd actually die out. So what is more believable/realistic? A world with sex or a world without?

 

FFS...

 

Nobody is claiming that sex does not exist in Dragon Age or Mass Effect or whatever universe. Do you understand that just because something isn't shoved under the audience's nose, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist? Do you think that nobody goes to the bathroom because the story never shows characters sitting on the can?

 

I specifically said explicit sex scenes. I think we can all agree that scenes and dialogue making clear sex occurs are very important. The question is only whether the story should explicitly show it.

[Spellbound7]

No, what you said was that it's okay not to have sex scenes if you're willing to make your story 'less believable.' So, clearly, for a storyteller to make the best 'adult' story possible, the most believable story, explicit sex scenes are a necessity. Isn't that right? 

 

I think you're reading a bit too much into this. There are many things that make a world believable. Sex can be one of them - just like eating food is one of them. A story isn't less believable for not depicting sex, or eating, but the believability is reinforced if these things are present. They are not REQUIRED to make a world seem real, but they can certainly help.

[Terodil]

FFS...

Wow, lay off the coffee. (Or go have sex. SCNR)

I specifically said explicit sex scenes. I think we can all agree that scenes and dialogue making clear sex occurs are very important. The question is only whether the story should explicitly show it.

Nah, it's only a slight difference but nonetheless important; the question is whether the story should explicitly NOT show it. And this is where we loop back to the argument we extensively examined two pages back. Does the fact that something is not needed mean that it should not be included? I made my point abundantly clear and am not going to repeat myself.