555 réponses à ce sujet

[Shevy]

Skyrim sold 20 million. Nothing good sells 20 million. To sell 20 million it has to be accessible to dumb people and people who wouldn't spend their time to read tow lines in the page of a book which both Skyrim and DAI are. A zombie could play and finish both, probably better and faster than most younglings in their late teens.

GTA series and WoW want to speak with you. Your argument is invalid. While sales doesn't automatically correspond with the quality of a product, saying "nothing good sells 20 million" is rubbish.

 

Skyrim is pretty good at what it wanted to deliver. No one expects deep story or characters out of a TES. You expect a sandbox world with enormous content and nobody does it better in the RPG sector than Bethesda.

[Andraste_Reborn]

For what it's worth, my personal top five looks like this:

 

1. Baldur's Gate. (Well, the two base games. I think Throne of Bhaal is a significant step down in quality.)

 

2. Dragon Age. I am wishy-washy and cannot make up my mind whether I like one more than another. Mostly I just love being in Thedas.

 

3. The Secret World. I am not usually a MMORPG person, but there's one big exception. Joined during the last beta weekend before launch, and I'm hugely excited to see the end of the first storyline later this month.

 

4. Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. Simultaneously one of the best RPGs I've ever played and an unfinished, buggy piece of crap. Fan patches let me love it anyway.

 

5. Pillars of Eternity. Maybe it's too early to put it up here with my all-time greats, but I really enjoyed my first run. Can't wait for the expansion! And the sequel!

 

... so Inquisition isn't my favourite of all time, but it's pretty damn close. This is despite my having played many, many CRPGs since I started in 1994.

[EdwardTeach]

DA:I is officially the most boring game I've ever played and I am a big DA fan but ever since Bioware went down the MMO approach all I've been able to think about was whether i be able to get a fefund or not for DA:I since the much of the dialogue narrated by the Inquisitor is monotonous and boring the same as with all the fetch quests and all the other misguided boring side quests as well as the fact that much of the time and budget for DA:I went into creating beautiful locations but what is stuffed in the locations is boring content and the only redeeming factors are Cassandra and Morrigan so there.

P.S. I've spent over a 100+ hours on this game and I have regretted it since it much more boring than DA 2 but since I was able to at least complete DA 2 at least several times I will give it the benefit of the doubt and call DA:I the most boring game that made me think it would be as good as DA:O but DA:I just ended up a huge disappointment.

[PhroXenGold]

How can you spend 100 hours playing a game you find boring?

[SquirrelTeamSix]

This game does not hold a candle to Origins, sorry.

[Grieving Natashina]

How can you spend 100 hours playing a game you find boring?

I actually enjoyed DA:I quite a bit, but I've ended the game at about the 75-80 hour mark on both of my completed characters.  Aside from shards, I don't bother with the collection quests, and I do kill all the dragons.  Around that point, I don't have a lot left to do and I get antsy, so I go for the End Game.  That's for a game I enjoy.  The last game that bored me to tears, which was FF XIII (I still regret that purchase to this day,) and I got about 2 hours in.  I rarely make it longer than 1-3 hours into a game that I'm bored with.  At the most.

[Elhanan]

I actually enjoyed DA:I quite a bit, but I've ended the game at about the 75-80 hour mark on both of my completed characters.  Aside from shards, I don't bother with the collection quests, and I do kill all the dragons.  Around that point, I don't have a lot left to do and I get antsy, so I go for the End Game.  That's for a game I enjoy.  The last game that bored me to tears, which was FF XIII (I still regret that purchase to this day,) and I got about 2 hours in.  I rarely make it longer than 1-3 hours into a game that I'm bored with.  At the most.

Probably a better approach for replay value than one that attempts to complete most content. Both of my campaigns are 250+ hrs, which does lead to some desired break periods for between sessions. This, plus the needed breaks due to a lack of concentration required on current settings is extending the length a campaign can take to complete.

[Terodil]

How can you spend 100 hours playing a game you find boring?

I spent 160+ hours on a game I found boring.

It's easy. You just keep hoping for better. Actually paint me naive, until the very end I refused to believe that BW would produce a game like DA:I. Maybe the classic train wreck hypnosis played a part too.

[Grieving Natashina]

Probably a better approach for replay value than one that attempts to complete most content. Both of my campaigns are 250+ hrs, which does lead to some desired break periods for between sessions. This, plus the needed breaks due to a lack of concentration required on current settings is extending the length a campaign can take to complete.

I just know I have attention span issues, sometimes severely.  I think the last game I cracked the 100 hour mark on was FFX International.  I did everything, and finished the game at 105 hours.  I don't know if I could do that again.  

 

My average for a longer game like this is about 80 hours.  Even then, I'm still taking a break from DA:I.  I'm not worried about the quality of the DLC, and the modding issue has been taken care of (thank you modders!)  I had just finished the game for the second time within days of the DLC getting ready to come out for the PC, and I couldn't do another character so quickly.  The game isn't going anywhere though, so I'll probably be picking up the DLC after I finish ME3 again.

[London]

I spent almost 200 hours on DAI. I think I found 50 genuinely enjoyable and maybe another 10 on character creation as I had a hard time getting my face right. I guess this meant I spent 70% of my time forcing myself through content or trying new characters to see if it would make the experience better.

I have a great love and respect for BioWare and wanted to see where the story went. I only bought DAI last year as there were no games that interested me so I did my best to enjoy the game.

In the end it was like a light was turned on and I realized I was not enjoying a majority of my time in the game so it was time to stop.

While of course I got my $70 worth or whatever the collectors edition cost hours wise, I would have more appreciated a less superfluous experience.

[Vault_Tec101]

How can you spend 100 hours playing a game you find boring?

 

I spent 160+ hours on a game I found boring.

It's easy. You just keep hoping for better. Actually paint me naive, until the very end I refused to believe that BW would produce a game like DA:I. Maybe the classic train wreck hypnosis played a part too.

 

This is what kept me going as well the false hope that in the end it will get better. That and the "I'm too much invested [time wise] to quit and throw it all in vain" notion. I believe that that is one the tendencies that television networks exploit; by having you realize all too late that a movie is horrible but by then you keep watching due to the above reasoning so they put in commercials at a faster rate.

 

I believe one term used for this is the Dollar Auction and it has a devastating effect that can be found from the Vietnam war to the Persian Gulf War. The only reason I bring up these contentious topics and go this deep into the issue is because the above poster (and the persons who liked the post) seemed genuinely incredulous that one would spend that much time on something they did not enjoy, I wish to show that this tendency is not as remote and shocking as it may first seem as well as that it is not limited to video games.

[otis0310]

Hi Vault-Tec101, I think the concept you are looking for is  loss aversion.  Take into consideration the concept of auctioning off a 20$ bill, but the first place winner pays and gets the bill, the 2nd place winner also pays but gets nothing.  People start bidding hoping to buy a $20 for 1$ , a real bargain, but as time goes on the need to get a bargain is replaced by the aversion of loss.  Let me explain.

 

So we start bidding at 1$, if they win they gain 19$, but as time goes one they end up passing the value fo the bill being sold.  The reason is obvious. Let's say the bid goes up to around 22$.  At this point obviously you are losing money even if you do win.  However, if you win, you lose only 2$, if you are in 2nd place you lose $22.  Obviously, you would rather lose only 2$ so you bid again hoping the other guy drops out.  Now let's say the top bid is $40, the winnner loses $20 (40$ bid - the value of the $20 bill = a $20 loss), the second place person loses $39, the cost of the bid, with nothing to show for it.

 

This is the concept of loss aversion at work.

 

Same goes for the Vietnam war,  they spent so much money, men and resources to win the war.  It would be shameful to spend all that money and lose all of those men's lvies and come home with nothing to show for it.  So they keep dumping more men and money into it in a futile attempt to turn things around, wasting even more money and lives.

 

This concept can go for computer game  as you said, you spent your money on it, you aren't getting it back.  So you might as well play the game, because if it was a bad game you just wasted your money.  Loss aversion at work again, you are trying to avoid losing your money on a worthless product.  So you keep on using the product, in this case playing the game, in a desperate attempt to convince yourself that the money was well spent.  But it wasn't, you were ripped off.  So as time goes by you slowly , but surely, come to the sad conclusion that you just threw away your money.

 

This is why you played the game for so long, not because it was good.  But because it HAD to be good or else your money was wasted.  You don't want to accept the fact you wasted your money, so you spend forever trying to convince yourself it was good.  Loss aversion at work.

 

Apparently PhroXenGold and others do not understand the concept, but I hope it is now more apparent to them.  I however do, I went through the same thing with this game, and Sims 4.

[Grieving Natashina]

....

....

 

Spoiler

 

Only on the BSN can folks equate video game development/price with the Vietnam War.  I'm not dismissing the point, but that's a comparison I didn't think I'd see on this site.

[Jack19526]

Finally a real time fighting, I love it most of those 3.

 

Why ??? I love it so much, that you people give us now the option,

to use tactics or real fighting

 

That gives freedom to your customars

Remove that option, and I will never buy again

 

Nevertheless, the first one was also a great game.

 

Still, try further, ....

There are games, you will never BEAT

 

Gothic 2 : Night of the Raven

Gothic 3 : Enhanced Editition

Gothic 1

Divinity 2 : The Dragon Knight Saga

 

Look on youtube, then you'll understand ....  

 

Not those stupid 10000 of repeated small trailers,

I've founded someone who SHOWS really these games,

Longer trailers instead of short ones.

 

https://www.        youtube.com/channel/UCK-8EUVb7BFU-VE_I-8yZHg/videos

 

Or look after: Wesley Daholtarre Gothic games

[Sartoz]

There is so much ridiculous semi-trolling whinging going on about this game on these boards, and it's really frustrating me. Especially since much of it is clearly coming from people who are playing this game to death, yet feel the need to come on these boards to whine and have their baseless criticisms validated because they think it makes them seem like discerning gamers.

 

Nuts to that. 

 

I have played Bioware games since Baldur's Gate 2, and up until now that was my favourite RPG of all time. I liked DA:O just fine, and I loved DA2, but they weren't quite as mind-blowing as BG2. 

 

This game makes all of those games look like amateur efforts. The sheer amount of content. The gorgeous well-designed graphics. The enormous amount of codex entries that don't dumb it down and don't "streamline" the world-building. The dynamic and innovative combat system that blends real-time elements with turn-based concepts. The well-thought out cast that's devoid of ridiculous stereotypes that have plagued some previous Bioware titles. Deep, involved romances, more so than any previous Bioware title. 

 

This game is truly incredible. People see that, and that's why it's received such critical acclaim. It's not without its flaws. The loss of the detailed tactics system in DA2 disappointed me. Skyhold feels a bit empty and lifeless - Haven is a better home-base.

 

But this truly redefined what I thought Bioware was capable of, and RPGs more generally. 

 

Please, leave a comment if you loved this game and are tired and frustrated by the constant pettiness and insincere cries of "Not enough hairstyles - guess I'm returning the game then!" 

 

.

                                                                                                              <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

PC Here... For $70 BIO gave me(physical media)

 

 

1. The sheer amount of content..... I believe you meant to say "the sheer anount of empty content" and useless grinding that came with it..

 

2. The gorgeous well-designed graphics....  gorgeous graphics.. I'll give you that. well-designed? hmm. Bio made a mess with the nav-meshes in the gorgeous maps that produced pathing problems and the inability to click-to-move with a mouse.

 

2. codex entries.....forget a game manual. Let's save a few bucks! I grant that the entries provide sufficient Lore info, even while that game Lore is violated with entry #3., such as the Mage Healer.

 

3. dynamic and innovative combat system... strictly for console kiddies who want instant gratification and attempts to help Electronic Arts Chief Creative Officer Richard Hillman's cry that EA games take too long to learn. Source: http://www.gameskinn...es-are-too-hard

 

4. turn based concepts.... your'e joking here right? perhaps you can conceptualize these concepts for me vs a RPG like DA:O or even the aRPG like DA2? Please mention the lack of an auto-attack or enemy auto-lock vs the previous games.

 

5. devoid of ridiculous stereotypes that have plagued some previous Bioware titles.... this made my gaming experience near and dear to me while I fought the game that came with un-intuitive KB+M UI ?. the same game that gave me cramps in my hands after an hour of play? The same game that initially failed to recongnize more than two mouse buttons and key-to-mouse-bindings? The same game that was designed for consoles and that the senior console game designer forgot that a PC Desktop's input device controls are a keyboard and mouse? You do realize that a Desktop PC comes with a keyboard and mouse, don't you?  The last time I checked a Desktop PC does not come with a controller.

 

I could go on.  Come to think about it, the spiel is very well written... words like incredible  and phrases like received such critical acclaim  or the other one ... truly redefined what I thought Bioware was capable of, and RPGs more generally appear to be taken from an Advertising Manual .. something like Mike Laidlaw's PR Speak. Fancy words designed to imply goodness and sweetnes but nothing concrete.

 

Just for your information I am a fan of DA:O and DA2....have ME1-3. and followed the DAI hype from day1.. pre-ordered the game even. It's all about what Bio said vs what it delivered.

 

As far as "hairstyles" are concerned, perhaps Skyrim's mod on hair: http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/29624/? will give you a hint of what an incredible gorgeous well-designed graphic game can be.

[Elhanan]

Seeing as disabled gamers gave the controls an award, and as I am a disabled gamer myself with hundreds of hours in gameplay, it would appear that some may be trying to Push on a Pull door to get hand cramping after an hour. Not saying that this style is wrong, but it appears to be easier when utilized another way.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Seeing as disabled gamers gave the controls an award, and as I am a disabled gamer myself with hundreds of hours in gameplay, it would appear that some may be trying to Push on a Pull door to get hand cramping after an hour. Not saying that this style is wrong, but it appears to be easier when utilized another way.

 

"It doesn't affect me, so it's not a real problem."

 

Thank you very much for your continued support, Elhanan. Your wit and eloquence are a boon to every discussion, no thread would be complete without your wise words. I have no idea what we would do without your moral compass, your righteousness and your staunch defence of DA:I. You make it look so easy. By simply declaring any issue to be a non-problem you get rid of any and all complications. Marvelous.

[Terodil]

Seeing as disabled gamers gave the controls an award, and as I am a disabled gamer myself with hundreds of hours in gameplay, it would appear that some may be trying to Push on a Pull door to get hand cramping after an hour. Not saying that this style is wrong, but it appears to be easier when utilized another way.

 

This makes me seriously cross. As somebody who claims to be disabled himself, you really should have more empathy when people report issues (e.g. regarding the M+KB control scheme giving RSI), and not simply ridicule them as being stupid for 'doing it wrong'.

[Elhanan]

This makes me seriously cross. As somebody who claims to be disabled himself, you really should have more empathy when people report issues (e.g. regarding the M+KB control scheme giving RSI), and not simply ridicule them as being stupid for 'doing it wrong'.

Again, they may not be doing it incorrectly, but as the DAGARS Award was gifted to DAI, and as one that has neuropathy and poor eye-hand coordination and still manages to play hundreds of hours without such problems, something is clearly different. Now it could be that I use Pause and Tac-Cam more frequently, and use Action mode as a secondary 'flow of battle engine', but nothing experienced is close to what is described above here.

The imaginary insults never happened....

[Il Divo]

I spent 160+ hours on a game I found boring.

It's easy. You just keep hoping for better. Actually paint me naive, until the very end I refused to believe that BW would produce a game like DA:I. Maybe the classic train wreck hypnosis played a part too.

 

Yeah, but there does come a point where someone is going to raise their eyebrows in disbelief. I'm not unsympathetic to those who dislike DA:I. But I think 160+ hours on a game you find boring is very much excessive. Hell, I think 50 hours is actually pushing the margin. Unless your goal is to be able to critique every last aspect of the game, which is fine but something I doubt most people set out to do, that lies at the extreme end of the spectrum.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yeah, but there does come a point where someone is going to raise their eyebrows in disbelief. I'm not unsympathetic to those who dislike DA:I. But I think 160+ hours on a game you find boring is very much excessive. Hell, I think 50 hours is actually pushing the margin. Unless your goal is to be able to critique every last aspect of the game, which is fine but something I doubt most people set out to do, that lies at the extreme end of the spectrum.

 

I think it was after about 20 hours of playing DA:I that I realized that this was not the game I had hoped for at all. At this point I planned to write a review but to do that, I had to at least complete the game.

In the end it took me ~120 hours for a complete playthrough. I wasn't bored all the time, there were some entertaining moments. It did take me -months- to finish the game though because I had to be in the right mood to put up with it.

 

I basically endured the game because I wanted to find out what happens in the end. That's all. I'm not going to play it again though. Haven't touched it in a long time now.

[Il Divo]

I think it was after about 20 hours of playing DA:I that I realized that this was not the game I had hoped for at all. At this point I planned to write a review but to do that, I had to at least complete the game.

In the end it took me ~120 hours for a complete playthrough. I wasn't bored all the time, there were some entertaining moments. It did take me -months- to finish the game though because I had to be in the right mood to put up with it.

 

I basically endured the game because I wanted to find out what happens in the end. That's all. I'm not going to play it again though. Haven't touched it in a long time now.

 

Yeah, I think that's more accurate. To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying that playing DA:I to that extent is a bad thing, particularly if you are writing a review. Only that I think that continuing in order to comment on the game and continuing hoping it gets better are two different things. If I thought the first 150 hours of DA:I are mostly terrible as an example, I probably wouldn't keep going out of the expectation that it gets better.
 

[Sartoz]

See, I specifically said that I agree with criticism and that I have made trenchant criticism of my own. You're part of the problem.

 

The board is called "Feedback". That includes positive feedback. I don't really see much on these boards telling the devs what went RIGHT in the game, what we appreciated and would like to see more of in the future. 

 

I just see fools like you talking about circle-jerking and fan-gasms. You think that's creating a community anyone wants to be a part of? 

 

There is nothing wrong with positive feedback. On the other hand, the OP reads like an Advetising Essay Exercise in "How to Promote a Product Without Revealing Too Much".

 

Concrete examples would help the reader including me.
 

[Sartoz]

I actually enjoyed DA:I quite a bit, but I've ended the game at about the 75-80 hour mark on both of my completed characters.  Aside from shards, I don't bother with the collection quests, and I do kill all the dragons.  Around that point, I don't have a lot left to do and I get antsy, so I go for the End Game.  That's for a game I enjoy.  The last game that bored me to tears, which was FF XIII (I still regret that purchase to this day,) and I got about 2 hours in.  I rarely make it longer than 1-3 hours into a game that I'm bored with.  At the most.

I had no idea what I was getting into when I got FF-XXX.  The promo pictures vs reality. Oh, it's definitely a console game.... but I really wanted to try a Final Fantasy game.  I guess I had money to burn or my head wasn't screwed in right, when I made that decision.

[Grieving Natashina]

I had no idea what I was getting into when I got FF-XXX.  The promo pictures vs reality. Oh, it's definitely a console game.... but I really wanted to try a Final Fantasy game.  I guess I had money to burn or my head wasn't screwed in right, when I made that decision.

 

I know what you meant, but that was pretty funny.

 

As far as FF games go, the last new game I felt was worth the money was Crisis Core on the PSP.  That was surprisingly good.