147 réponses à ce sujet

[Vertrucio]

Not only are they still connected, I think they did a good job of showing how much time had passed and how Shepard's disappearance affected them.

[TuringPoint]

I thought the reunions were plenty adequate. The Mass Effect series is probably the first game series to have emotionally adequate reunions.



Seeing Garrus, seeing Tali... very awesome. You see more of their personality than you ever saw in ME1, am I right?

[Badpie]

SwobyJ wrote...


You're also not taking into account that ME2 seems to have two large goals in terms of story:
-set up for massive conflicts and story events in ME3
-give Shepard and his immediate allys more of a chance to take on the Reaper threat. A big part of this was getting rid of Normandy 1 and replacing it with SR-2.

Don't worry- this is all just extended set-up, like any middle act in a trilogy.

This.  While on a personal level as an Ashley fan I wanted to see more of her and have all kinds of lovey dovey scenes I also know that that just doesn't make sense in terms of the bigger picture.  Conflict and drama create satisfying conclusions.  That's assuming of course Bioware doesn't drop the ball on this in ME3 (I'm watching you, devs!)

Do I think the reunions with our ME pals, especially our love interests could have been better?  Maybe (I thought the non-love interests ones were just fine), but I believe Bioware when they say the love interests will play an important role in ME3 and we'll have a satifactory conclusion.  Meh.  Call me naive, but I just don't see any reason to doubt that just yet.

[ratzerman]

SwobyJ wrote...

Just you wait- if the ME1 LI's return in ME3 as squaddies I'll be so happy. If not,then there's an issue. I'm completely happy with a turn away from them in ME2 though.

Wow..... I wish I shared your optimism.  The way the ME1 love interests react to you, the way they've all become somewhat bitter and hostile, is a clear indication that they're never coming back as squaddies.   I think their roles in ME2 were designed with two goals in mind....

1) Make them as unlikable as possible to new players.  Seriously, is there anything about them that would make a new fan the least bit interested in going back to ME1, and getting to know them better?

2) Give returning fans so little hope at a future relationships with Liara, Ash or Kaidan, that everyone but their most fervent admirers will be compelled to move on to new romances. 

If both of these goals are met, Bioware is then completelely off the hook.  They'll be free to give us another sucker-punch cameo in ME3, and chalk it up to them "listening to the fans."  Just so we're clear, I hope everything I just wrote is proven wrong.  Nothing would make me happier than to have Liara back on my squad in ME3.  But the odds against that happening now seem so outrageous, I'm not even going to entertain the thought.

Modifié par ratzerman, 27 janvier 2010 - 06:07 .

[Badpie]

ratzerman wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Just you wait- if the ME1 LI's return in ME3 as squaddies I'll be so happy. If not,then there's an issue. I'm completely happy with a turn away from them in ME2 though.

 I think their roles in ME2 were designed with two goals in mind....

1) Make them as unlikable as possible to new players.  Seriously, is there anything about them that would make a new fan the least bit interested in going back to ME1, and getting to know them better?

2) Give returning fans so little hope at a future relationships with Liara, Ash or Kaidan, that everyone but their most fervent admirers will be compelled to move on to new romances. 

If both of these goals are met, Bioware is then completelely off the hook.  They'll be free to give us another sucker-punch cameo in ME3, and chalk it up to them "listening to the fans."  Just so we're clear, I hope everything I just wrote is proven wrong.  Nothing would make me happier than to have Liara back on my squad in ME3.  But the odds against that happening now seem so outrageous, I'm not even going to entertain the thought.

I am hoping against hope that this is not the case.  If it is, I will be very disappointed with Bioware.    I really think they'll do good by the ME1 squaddies, but I do think, ratzerman that your very excellent point needs to be both considered and brought to the attention of the devs in a way that they can see that it simply would NOT be acceptable to fans.

Because it wouldn't be.  We would riot.    *points finger at Bioware*  WE'RE WATCHING YOUUUUU!

Modifié par Badpie, 27 janvier 2010 - 06:19 .

[Corti78]

I'm not sure how they'll work Kaidan/Ash back into the squad but Liara would be easy. All she has to do is finally track down the shadow broker and since the SB is such a powerful figure in the ME universe there is no way she can take him on alone. How do you take on a person like that? Rejoin the person that has made a career of facing impossible odds and taking down powerful enemies, aka Shepard.

I honestly hope they release some DLC that furthers the shadow broker sub-plot for ME2.

Modifié par Corti78, 27 janvier 2010 - 06:20 .

[rines]

Really the only me1 appearance i was psyched to see was Garrus, Refund Guy, and myself.

[syllogi]

I was seriously disappointed in Liara and Ash/Kaidan's reunion scenes as well.



It's pretty insulting to those who enjoyed Ashley and Kaidan in the first game to make them virtually interchangable in their one scene in this game...those were two very different people, yet somehow we are supposed to believe that they have the same exact outlook and reaction to Shepard working with Cerberus, and we should just accept that they are violently against helping Shep, even though they know that they are on a suicide mission, while characters like Garrus and Tali, who didn't have as close a connection in the first game, are fine and dandy with working with a pro-human terrorist organization, because they trust Shepard's leadership.



Then we have Liara, who seems so different and weird, I thought she must have been brainwashed. She quotes her mother while threatening people, acts mysterious and distant, and she even talks with a different inflection, which is bizarre. I *really* hope the writers are going somewhere with Liara's complete change of character, because if no explanation is eventually made, that's just plain lazy.



Sigh. I like many things about this game so far, but these particular points are gnawing at me. Combine that with my extreme lack of enthusiasm for any of the female romance interests, and ME2 is just kind of "meh".

[Arcadionn]

Liara was slightly defensive, she kisses you and seems interested, but she has a lot on her plate since you've been gone... some involving your retrieval ... She is in debt... she deals in information and had to become much tougher than she was, and that she did alone... in no small part to you dying.



Shiala was really friendly and has my vote for LI in ME3 haha. (I have been wishing she was a crew member since ME1, but heh) She adds story element for one of the colonies you saved and I find that really nice.



Wrex has his leader facing many challenges/enemies type of thing, but he remains happy to see you and would join you in a heartbeat if he did not have to, you know, help save his people!?



My disappointing ones were Kaidan (i saved him... didnt want to restart ME1 whole just for that detail lol) makes sense that he hates cerberus I guess but still... and Anderson.



I still have yet to see a return to the Meteorite DLC of ME1, maybe I missed it.

[ratzerman]

Corti78 wrote...

I'm not sure how they'll work Kaidan/Ash back into the squad but Liara would be easy. All she has to do is finally track down the shadow broker and since the SB is such a powerful figure in the ME universe there is no way she can take him on alone. How do you take on a person like that? Rejoin the person that has made a career of facing impossible odds and taking down powerful enemies, aka Shepard.

I honestly hope they release some DLC that furthers the shadow broker sub-plot for ME2.

I sincerely hope you're right, Corti78.  Your scenario for Liara rejoining Shepard makes perfect sense, and I have no doubt that Bioware could pull it off brilliantly.  But at this point, I don't see it happening.  Why go through the trouble of making her so unappealing, if you're going to try selling DLC later on that focuses on her?  Who besides her most hardcore fans would buy it?

[Arcadionn]

ratzerman wrote...

Corti78 wrote...

I'm not sure how they'll work Kaidan/Ash back into the squad but Liara would be easy. All she has to do is finally track down the shadow broker and since the SB is such a powerful figure in the ME universe there is no way she can take him on alone. How do you take on a person like that? Rejoin the person that has made a career of facing impossible odds and taking down powerful enemies, aka Shepard.

I honestly hope they release some DLC that furthers the shadow broker sub-plot for ME2.

I sincerely hope you're right, Corti78.  Your scenario for Liara rejoining Shepard makes perfect sense, and I have no doubt that Bioware could pull it off brilliantly.  But at this point, I don't see it happening.  Why go through the trouble of making her so unappealing, if you're going to try selling DLC later on that focuses on her?  Who besides her most hardcore fans would buy it?

Unappealing? Omg no she evolved into a harder person and lost the fully innocent personality she had as depicted in the comic series...

She lost you, she was alone in a hostile and dangerous Universe... leaving her as a fragile and innocent asari scientist would have likely gotten her killed... context-wise, I see it as a really good decision by Bioware...

Her not jumping to hug you when you see her just goes to show how she needs to maintain that appearance of profesionnalism. She works in a dangerous environment (information trading)...

To each his own I guess.

[SmilingMirror]

I liked every reunion. I killed ash, had a romance with Liara and saved Wrex.

I thought Kaiden had become an ass and Liara went on drugs and became a criminal mastermind, but overall i was impressed with the scenes in the game.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 27 janvier 2010 - 07:14 .

[ratzerman]

Arcadionn wrote...

Unappealing? Omg no she evolved into a harder person and lost the fully innocent personality she had as depicted in the comic series...

She lost you, she was alone in a hostile and dangerous Universe... leaving her as a fragile and innocent asari scientist would have likely gotten her killed... context-wise, I see it as a really good decision by Bioware...

Her not jumping to hug you when you see her just goes to show how she needs to maintain that appearance of profesionnalism. She works in a dangerous environment (information trading)...

To each his own I guess.

I'm not saying that I find her unappealing.  Quite the opposite, actually.  I'm saying that Bioware has purposely made her character unappealing to new players, so they won't have to worry about giving her a larger role in ME3.

Everything you say about Liara having to maintain a professional appearance makes sense. It's just very hard for me to believe that Bioware has big plans for her beyond the comic book.  Maybe once the disappointment fades away, I'll be able to see things more clearly.  But right now, my favorite character in my favorite game has been turned into a cold, bitter shell of her former self.  And it'll be another two years before I find out if she'll ever be herself again.

[AlphaJarmel]

The thing with Liara I found is that she acts so out of character. So in two years she has now gone from being a scientist to an information broker? Two years is a long time but that is a pretty drastic shift. Also she's now cold-blooded enough to just kill people off without thinking about it?

[Kyero]

Youguys realize they most likely thought he would be alive. And tali was happy. Their not gonna get all tearie eyed. Their not chiildren...

[ComTrav]

Liara did have the most dramatic character shift IMO...



The scene with Ashley was interesting, because from her perspective its the (paragon) Shepherd who has made the dramatic character shift. ("Don't you remember how Cerebrus was the villain in like every sidequest we did?")

[StolenThunder]

I was pretty upset with the Liara reunion. I mean, it's cool that she's, um, tough, and stuff, but all that BS about not being able to open up was just stupid. Her whole V for Vendetta thing is totally crazy for her character and you'd think that seeing her old hump-buddy would kinda snap her out of it. Oh, well, I guess Dantes needs to really stick it to Mondego :-/



But at least my Fem!Shep got a makeout session instead of just a hug that the Kaidan/Ash shippers got. *thumbs down*

[bstrothe]

I saw Liara as moving to the matron phase of Asari life, which means less wide-eyed innocence, more pragmatic. I wouldn't say she is colder, just not as overwhelmed by Shepard.

[DSWDalish]

Liara run in was a let down. SHe was my ME1 LI and all i got was a kiss. THen shes like go hack terminals and help me assassinate people. She has totally changed. Cheating on her is hard tho. Ramifications in ME3 might be to great. Hmmm wat to do wat to do............... Ashley i wasnt surprised how she acted but i did want to slap her afterwards.

[MICHELLE7]

Fhaileas wrote...
. Even Kaiden (my LI) was more upset at me for working with Cerberus, not caring that she was alive and had sacrificed herself to save the rest of the crew on that fateful day. The "email" Kaiden sends after that encounter almost seems like a slap in the face (Paraphrasing: "Hey sorry for venting at you like that, I had moved on but I still remember that "oh so special" night we shared, so good luck with your "suicide" mission and maybe we can "hookup" when you get back"). This almost selfish and ego-centric perspective makes it seem like he was more interested in the "lay" than any semblance of a meaningful relationship.

.

Okay, I'll admit that the email was upsetting at first...but after reading it several times I got the jest of it. He essentially says seeing Shep at the colony threw him for a loop and he didn't know how to handle it. No he doesn't trust Cerberus but there was more to his reaction than just that. He tells you in the encounter he thought that the two of you had something, that he loved you and that your death put him through hell.

As for the night before Illos he says it meant 'everything' to him...that isn't just some sort of lay. Don't forget Kaidan(for those of us that played ME) doesn't get physical with someone unless he cares for them...which is why he makes the point of saying that the girl his friends set him up with on a date wasn't serious...he's letting Shep know he's not sleeping with her.

And I think that the last lines of the email may be a hint to the players. When he says maybe after everything has settled down 'maybe' they can get back together(something along those lines). I think that is a hint that you may be able to get back together(ME3 perhaps) only if you don't cheat(that's the maybe part)...it's conditional.

I'm not saying that it's still not a little disappointing. I would have liked to have had more interaction and a better outcome. You can talk to Kelly Chambers after the colony and reveal to her you care about your LI and you can also talk to Joker and he will refer to your relationship as one where the two of you were 'dating'. Nice touches even if it was a little weak.

The thing about the email that bothered me the most was the fact that he refers to Ilos like it was the only time they were together. From what I understand it was two months from the time of Saren till the Normandy went down. I would think they were together more often than just once...perhaps that is what we are meant to assume and that Ilos was just the first 'special' night. 

I thought the encounter with Liara was worse...almost like a split personality. And I don't know what they were thinking with Chakwas. When you finish talking to her and she turns in that chair back to her desk she looks zombified. You could cue the Silent Hill music and it would be perfect. Really creepy. Through rambling....back to game.

[ComTrav]

Personally, I think it's likely you'll be able to return to your ME1 LI (if you want) in ME3 whatever you do in ME2.

I remember some dev using the example of there being a different girl in the Indiana Jones movies. He might ended up with the girl from Raiders, but you can bet he didn't pass up that chick in Temple of Doom. (And he was working on that girl in Last Crusade, but she was a **** spy anyway.)



It would help a lot of Shepherd learned to write email during his supersoldier training. ("Hey Ash, I know things got heated on Horizon, but I appreciate your email. This whole thing where I've been dead for two years really sucks.")

[Crackseed]

Some of the ME1 encounters were a bit tamer then I hoped, but I LOVED Wrex's one. I really enjoyed that

It's sad though, as the more I thought about it, coupled with my ME2 run in, the more I don't care about leaving Liara behind. She's obviously left my Shep behind.

Besides. Tali. GG >.>

[MICHELLE7]

ComTrav wrote...


It would help a lot of Shepherd learned to write email during his supersoldier training. ("Hey Ash, I know things got heated on Horizon, but I appreciate your email. This whole thing where I've been dead for two years really sucks.")

Yeah it would have been a nice touch if after you got an email you got a choice(dialogue option) to send a positive email or negative one. You know...either I want to see you after this is all over or we're through. The way it was left was just a little bit murky and not clear. People that don't know about the email simply assume that was the breakup and have no idea your LI is still interested.

[ratzerman]

MICHELLE7 wrote...
People that don't know about the email simply assume that was the breakup and have no idea your LI is still interested.

Similarly, if you don't follow Liara's fetching missions all the way to the end, you never find out that she turnsed Shep over to Cerberus, and how profoundly guilt stricken she is.  She's really broken up inside, afraid that Shepard would "hate" her if s/he found out.  Telling her that she did the right thing relieves a lot of the tension in her voice.  But if you give up at any point along the way, you don't find this out.  Couple that with a rather awkward kiss, and I'm not surprised if most people who romanced her simply move on to other romances..... which is probably want Bioware wants anyway.

[RabidWHM]

I have to agree with everyone here I was disappointed
with everyone's "Your alive...Okay, well that’s good.  I’m kind of busy” attitude. That was so infuriating.
As someone stated even your LI's are a bit of a bummer.  While In my
opinion they are not as bad as your companions, they do go berserk on you. Even
after you tell them about the new threat and BEING DEAD. Hey Ash/Kaidan, do you
remember what happened last time people underestimated these threats? *cough* Sovereign
*cough*

It felt like Shepard’s sacrifice didn’t impact your
companions at all. I know I completed all those additional “personal” quests
for them. I know they must’ve had some good times together. Also didn’t Shepard
save the galaxy? All you ungrateful bums would be dead/turned into husks if it
wasn’t for Shepard. At least you can do is be happy to see me!