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ME1 Character Run-ins... disappointing?


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#126
DarchAngelDavid

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Badpie wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...
I also heard one of them say that they thought most people would cheat on their LI's. I can't understand why they would do something like that to those fans who really like the romance part of the story and would have preferred to be with our old LI's. It's like they did a poor job on purpose knowing it would cause a majority to cheat. Kinda cruel if you ask me. If it was simply to garner some kind of emotion it only added to by detachment from the game. 

It's definitely cruel.  Whether it was done on purpose or not, we'll probably never know.  But the fact remains that those of us who still care about the original LIs are getting a big F-U from Bioware.  They can talk about wanting to "save" them for ME3 all they want, but it doesn't explain why they made them all so unlikable in this game.

I don't understand how any of this, especially their decision to bury Liara's breakdown and confession behind two one-chance-only dialog options.  I've lost count of the posts I've seen saying things like "Liara is cold" and "what happened to Liara?"  It's obvious most people aren't getting to the good ending of her quest, and it's really starting to bother me.  I don't want to believe that Bioware would sabotage her character that, but I can't think of another explanation.  Are they simply trying to drive comic sales?  And if so, couldn't they have thought of a better way to do it?

The cruelest part of all is that we'll have to wait another two or three years to find out what Bioware intends to do with these characters.  But as it stands right now, I have little reason to believe they won't be swept under the rug and forgotten about.  The way the roles of Liara, Ash, and Kaidan were written in this game, I don't see anyone but their most hardcore fans remaining loyal to them anyway.



I think it was done on purpose but not at all as an F-U from Bioware.  Think about it.  They knew perfectly well that everyone would have a strong response to the way they handled the love interests from the first game.  And that was the point! They WANT you to be hurt and confused and angry and frustrated and maybe even a little vindictive, maybe even a little tempted to assuage your anger and sadness by running to the arms of another.  Because that's what Shepard is feeling.  All I know is this is how I felt after meeting Ash:  OMG ASH!  SO HAPPY!  okay this is a little awkward but who cares?  ASH!  .....WTF ASH?!  **** YOU!  WAIT DON'T GO!  NO GO!  I HATE YOU!  WAIT I LOVE YOU!  Okay fine.  Bye.  Sigh.  It says a lot for the writing when you're actually feeling exactly what your character is supposed to be feeling.

This is a really ambitious and risky move that they've taken that could end up being one of the most amazing love stories or they could drop the ball and give us crap in the 3rd installment.  They're asking for a lot of faith from their loyal fans.  Personally, I predict awesomeness, but I understand why some people are frustrated.




I am with you on this one. They have crafted a very nice love triangle that the player has to fall into. If you don't dig deep enough you will never know why she is acting this way. However, if you do then you might make the choice to wait for her instead of making a new LI. It gives the player the power but it puts him or her into a situation that real life people deal with all the time. You never know fully what someone is thinking or going through and you have to react your own way. With a story this deep you shouldn't expect instant gratification around every corner. I personally don't think she has really changed all that much. They made it pretty clear that she was faking over the line to seem really hard by saying something the player would pick up on. She is just passionate to get back at the person that hurt you and tried to take you away from her. She is new to relationships and just isn't dealing with the whole thing very well so in an attempt to do what she felt was right she may have hurt you and that kind of thing happens in relationships all the time. How you react to it is up to you. Give her the time she asked for because you love her that much or move on to the arms of another and lick your wounds. Stuff like this is what makes this game so great. I for one can't wait to see how your LI from ME1 reacts in ME3 based on what you did in ME2. I think it is going to be off the chain for the player both ways.

Modifié par DarchAngelDavid, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:40 .


#127
Badpie

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Pabloescobar20 wrote...

Funniest part was the fact that Liara didn't care enough about you to even investigate the ship that attacked Normandy or even take revenge. Even though she was my love interest and a trusted member of the team that shared a deep connection with me.

But instead, she decides to kill The Shadow Broker because he murdered her no name friend that she only knew for a year or two. It's like me forgetting about some guy that killed my wife but then going after someone who murdered a co-worker i only knew for a short time.



Uhh....maybe you should go talk to her again.  Or read this thread.

#128
Corti78

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Pabloescobar20 wrote...

Funniest part was the fact that Liara didn't care enough about you to even investigate the ship that attacked Normandy or even take revenge. Even though she was my love interest and a trusted member of the team that shared a deep connection with me.

But instead, she decides to kill The Shadow Broker because he murdered her no name friend that she only knew for a year or two. It's like me forgetting about some guy that killed my wife but then going after someone who murdered a co-worker i only knew for a short time.


I suggest you read the rest of the thread and get the conversation where she explains herself. FYI she was always going after the shadow broker for Shepard.

#129
Sursion

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I like how nobody mentions the Horizon encounter when they're talking about 'Bad, poorly written, horrible run-ins with previous squad'

That was an intense moment. They basically tell you to f off.

Modifié par Sursion, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:42 .


#130
DarchAngelDavid

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Pabloescobar20 wrote...

Funniest part was the fact that Liara didn't care enough about you to even investigate the ship that attacked Normandy or even take revenge. Even though she was my love interest and a trusted member of the team that shared a deep connection with me.

But instead, she decides to kill The Shadow Broker because he murdered her no name friend that she only knew for a year or two. It's like me forgetting about some guy that killed my wife but then going after someone who murdered a co-worker i only knew for a short time.


You didnt read up on what she was doing.  She is the reason you are alive in the first place.  Out of everyone from the crew Liara was the only one looking for your body so you are very wrong sir.  Her revenge on the Shadow Broker is all about you and what he did to you.  Read Mass Effect redemption.

#131
Badpie

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Sursion wrote...

I like how nobody mentions the Horizon encounter when they're talking about 'Bad, poorly written, horrible run-ins with previous squad'

That was an intense moment. They basically tell you to f off.


So do you think it's a bad, poorly written run in on Horizon?  Or do you think it's an intense well written thing?  I couldn't tell from your post.

I think the latter.  The writers did that well.

#132
cpolisch

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You know, I completely disagree with the fact that the reunion wasn't emotional enough. I mean, what were they supposed to do? I'm talking about Kaidan here... so if this doesn't work for Ashley and I know it doesn't work for Liara, but still. I mean... a kiss would have been okay but he was in a LOT of shock, he'd heard you were alive and was probably trying to convince himself not to hope and then with the Cerberus bit tied in he didn't know WHAT to think. But when he saw you, the hug, first and foremost was possibly more sensual than that dang kiss from Liara and the way he looked at you was OBVIOUSLY very filled with emotion. They did a really good job with the facial expressions as far as he goes. You could tell he was really struggling, and then he switched back to being pissed off about Cerberus for the end of the conversation and storms off because the woman he's in love with popped back up and is with one of the Alliance's biggest enemies. I'd storm off too.



As for the e-mail, I really liked it. It set things up really nicely, and someone who said it was like all he cared about was the sex. No. Just because he mentioned the night before Ilos? It wasn't like he said, "God you were good in bed." He said it meant EVERYTHING to him. To me, it seemed like he was more worried about Shepard moving on. I thought Bioware did an awesome job setting it up for ME3, and unlike Liara, Kaidan seemed the same, if unsure of himself.



I also didn't think the doctor reference was that bad, it was adorable in my opinion and the fact that it took him two years to manage even drinks? Yeah, I thought Bioware did it perfectly, and that's sayin something because beforehand, I was as pissed off at Bioware as anyone.

#133
Nigawatts

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Liara is fine. At least from a plot perspective. If you convince her to tell you the whole story she'll break down and finally say she is the reason you were resurrected, she was the one who got to your body first and gave it to Cerberus because she couldn't let YOU go. Unlike the other people who moved on, she was the one who was still looking out for Shepard.



The whole "why does she care about some nobody she knew for only 2 years?" um...how long did she know Shepard? Apparently this guy died helping her get you so you could come back to life. So this guy (who I think is the Drell in the comic) deserves more respect from some of you IMO.



You also have to take into affect how unnatural it is what they did to Shepard. Is life completely tied to the bodies well being? Where has Shepard's soul been for the last 2 years? This was a very unnatural thing to do no matter how futuristic this universe is. What Liara allowed them to do, instead of putting you to rest, is probably something she can't come to terms with, especially since she IS one of the few Asari who are religious.

#134
ratzerman

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Badpie wrote...

Pabloescobar20 wrote...

Funniest part was the fact that Liara didn't care enough about you to even investigate the ship that attacked Normandy or even take revenge. Even though she was my love interest and a trusted member of the team that shared a deep connection with me.

But instead, she decides to kill The Shadow Broker because he murdered her no name friend that she only knew for a year or two. It's like me forgetting about some guy that killed my wife but then going after someone who murdered a co-worker i only knew for a short time.



Uhh....maybe you should go talk to her again.  Or read this thread.


Sigh.....  This is the kind of thing that has me worried, Badpie.  So many people are getting the wrong impression from the Liara scenes.  By the time ME3 (or by some miracle, DLC) rolls around, most will abandon Liara as that nutty chick who used to be cute but now just wants to kill.

I don't see the logic behind making Liara's confession a one-shot option on the dialog wheel. 

#135
Badpie

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cpolisch wrote...

You know, I completely disagree with the fact that the reunion wasn't emotional enough. I mean, what were they supposed to do? I'm talking about Kaidan here... so if this doesn't work for Ashley and I know it doesn't work for Liara, but still. I mean... a kiss would have been okay but he was in a LOT of shock, he'd heard you were alive and was probably trying to convince himself not to hope and then with the Cerberus bit tied in he didn't know WHAT to think. But when he saw you, the hug, first and foremost was possibly more sensual than that dang kiss from Liara and the way he looked at you was OBVIOUSLY very filled with emotion. They did a really good job with the facial expressions as far as he goes. You could tell he was really struggling, and then he switched back to being pissed off about Cerberus for the end of the conversation and storms off because the woman he's in love with popped back up and is with one of the Alliance's biggest enemies. I'd storm off too.

As for the e-mail, I really liked it. It set things up really nicely, and someone who said it was like all he cared about was the sex. No. Just because he mentioned the night before Ilos? It wasn't like he said, "God you were good in bed." He said it meant EVERYTHING to him. To me, it seemed like he was more worried about Shepard moving on. I thought Bioware did an awesome job setting it up for ME3, and unlike Liara, Kaidan seemed the same, if unsure of himself.

I also didn't think the doctor reference was that bad, it was adorable in my opinion and the fact that it took him two years to manage even drinks? Yeah, I thought Bioware did it perfectly, and that's sayin something because beforehand, I was as pissed off at Bioware as anyone.


I agree with all of this.  The hug was way better than a kiss would have been (for both Ash and Kaidan).  I mean seeing the thought dead person you loved or the person you loved who thought YOU were dead is going to be a kind of awkward moment no matter how you slice it.  The lingering, affectionate hug was far more honest about how much they care about one another than a kiss would have been.  In fact I think the hug spoke volumes more than their actual conversation did.

Their conversation, while some thought it wasn't "emotional enough" I found to be perfectly heartwrenching and honest.  I'm not quite sure what some people wanted?  Tears?  And the emails (both of them) were great too.  Didn't gush, didn't beg for forgiveness, didn't get overly melodramatic but it still all carried the same basic message - that they love you and can't lose you again.  It was all very in character in my opinion.

Sigh.  "Ashley is an incredible woman.  I didn't like saying goodbye."  Image IPB

Modifié par Badpie, 29 janvier 2010 - 08:01 .


#136
JrayM16

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Can you be Pargon un Me1 and ME2 as a male and keep ashely/kaiden alive at the end of ME2?

#137
DarchAngelDavid

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Nigawatts wrote...

Liara is fine. At least from a plot perspective. If you convince her to tell you the whole story she'll break down and finally say she is the reason you were resurrected, she was the one who got to your body first and gave it to Cerberus because she couldn't let YOU go. Unlike the other people who moved on, she was the one who was still looking out for Shepard.

The whole "why does she care about some nobody she knew for only 2 years?" um...how long did she know Shepard? Apparently this guy died helping her get you so you could come back to life. So this guy (who I think is the Drell in the comic) deserves more respect from some of you IMO.

You also have to take into affect how unnatural it is what they did to Shepard. Is life completely tied to the bodies well being? Where has Shepard's soul been for the last 2 years? This was a very unnatural thing to do no matter how futuristic this universe is. What Liara allowed them to do, instead of putting you to rest, is probably something she can't come to terms with, especially since she IS one of the few Asari who are religious.


See it is refreshing to see someone else dug deep and found out what happened to her.  In the end even if she was not your LI of choice she is the one who loves you the most.

#138
Corti78

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JrayM16 wrote...

Can you be Pargon un Me1 and ME2 as a male and keep ashely/kaiden alive at the end of ME2?


None of the ME1 LI join the squad in ME2. Bioware wanted to make sure to keep them alive for ME3.

#139
MICHELLE7

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I'm towards the end of this now...someone already mentioned this but I'll repeat it because when they posted it...it sounded more like something they simply went and did...I did not realize it was a cut scene.



If you stay faithful...just before you go on the mission(still wondering if I'll survive...Jack's already dead) Shep will go into her/his quarters and take a long look at the picture of their LI. I am assuming that this would be where others who chose ME2 LI's got their love scenes. Even though I'm still not seeing any facial reactions there, they did take there time with it and make it look like Shep was still in love with the person. It was a nice touch.

#140
Badpie

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MICHELLE7 wrote...

I'm towards the end of this now...someone already mentioned this but I'll repeat it because when they posted it...it sounded more like something they simply went and did...I did not realize it was a cut scene.

If you stay faithful...just before you go on the mission(still wondering if I'll survive...Jack's already dead) Shep will go into her/his quarters and take a long look at the picture of their LI. I am assuming that this would be where others who chose ME2 LI's got their love scenes. Even though I'm still not seeing any facial reactions there, they did take there time with it and make it look like Shep was still in love with the person. It was a nice touch.


Does Shepard then whump down onto the floor crying?  Because I think I might.  Image IPB

LOL

#141
DarchAngelDavid

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MICHELLE7 wrote...

I'm towards the end of this now...someone already mentioned this but I'll repeat it because when they posted it...it sounded more like something they simply went and did...I did not realize it was a cut scene.

If you stay faithful...just before you go on the mission(still wondering if I'll survive...Jack's already dead) Shep will go into her/his quarters and take a long look at the picture of their LI. I am assuming that this would be where others who chose ME2 LI's got their love scenes. Even though I'm still not seeing any facial reactions there, they did take there time with it and make it look like Shep was still in love with the person. It was a nice touch.


I came about that conclusion based on the facts that were already laid out from the games encounters and the comic.  It is nice to see that they did take some time to add more detail to it.

#142
MICHELLE7

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I'm through now...I tried the continue option just to see if Anderson might have some new dialog...no such luck. I had hoped(naively) that since Kaidan said that he and Shep might get together after everything settled down 'maybe' that they might have added something afterwards. As far as I can tell they didn't. I guess it simply meant...see you in ME3. I just hope seeing them after everything settles down doesn't mean after the reapers are dealt with because if I have to wait to the end of ME3 to even get a reconciliation cameo it will really suck big time.

I told TIM off at the end but it still looks like Shep is working for him...I hate that...I liked the Alliance better...I would prefer if Shep didn't work with Cerberus next time. One good thing...I got my revenge...All the potential love interests for Femshep this time around bit the dust(including Garrus). And I got an added bonus...Miranda died too...In the words of Zevran...I am a wicked, wicked woman.:devil::lol:

#143
Corti78

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MICHELLE7 wrote...

I'm through now...I tried the continue option just to see if Anderson might have some new dialog...no such luck. I had hoped(naively) that since Kaidan said that he and Shep might get together after everything settled down 'maybe' that they might have added something afterwards. As far as I can tell they didn't. I guess it simply meant...see you in ME3. I just hope seeing them after everything settles down doesn't mean after the reapers are dealt with because if I have to wait to the end of ME3 to even get a reconciliation cameo it will really suck big time.

I told TIM off at the end but it still looks like Shep is working for him...I hate that...I liked the Alliance better...I would prefer if Shep didn't work with Cerberus next time. One good thing...I got my revenge...All the potential love interests for Femshep this time around bit the dust(including Garrus). And I got an added bonus...Miranda died too...In the words of Zevran...I am a wicked, wicked woman.:devil::lol:


ENDING SPOILERS

If you blow the base and tell TIM off you basically cut all ties with Cerberus. Jacob says something along the lines of "Nice way to tell the boss you're quitting." Miranda says something similar.

Its pretty much like ME1, the crew was not just an "alliance" crew they were Shepard's crew. The same thing happened here, the crew decided to side with Shepard instead of Cerberus. I expect the Normandy to have a new paint job in ME3, possibly a Spectre paint job. Who knows.

On an added note: If Shepard dies at the end Joker is the one that reports to TIM and basically tells TIM off too. It looks like ME3 we'll finally be the ones in complete charge.

Modifié par Corti78, 29 janvier 2010 - 10:34 .


#144
RabidWHM

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Badpie wrote...

cpolisch wrote...

You know, I completely disagree with the fact that the reunion wasn't emotional enough. I mean, what were they supposed to do? I'm talking about Kaidan here... so if this doesn't work for Ashley and I know it doesn't work for Liara, but still. I mean... a kiss would have been okay but he was in a LOT of shock, he'd heard you were alive and was probably trying to convince himself not to hope and then with the Cerberus bit tied in he didn't know WHAT to think. But when he saw you, the hug, first and foremost was possibly more sensual than that dang kiss from Liara and the way he looked at you was OBVIOUSLY very filled with emotion. They did a really good job with the facial expressions as far as he goes. You could tell he was really struggling, and then he switched back to being pissed off about Cerberus for the end of the conversation and storms off because the woman he's in love with popped back up and is with one of the Alliance's biggest enemies. I'd storm off too.

As for the e-mail, I really liked it. It set things up really nicely, and someone who said it was like all he cared about was the sex. No. Just because he mentioned the night before Ilos? It wasn't like he said, "God you were good in bed." He said it meant EVERYTHING to him. To me, it seemed like he was more worried about Shepard moving on. I thought Bioware did an awesome job setting it up for ME3, and unlike Liara, Kaidan seemed the same, if unsure of himself.

I also didn't think the doctor reference was that bad, it was adorable in my opinion and the fact that it took him two years to manage even drinks? Yeah, I thought Bioware did it perfectly, and that's sayin something because beforehand, I was as pissed off at Bioware as anyone.


I agree with all of this.  The hug was way better than a kiss would have been (for both Ash and Kaidan).  I mean seeing the thought dead person you loved or the person you loved who thought YOU were dead is going to be a kind of awkward moment no matter how you slice it.  The lingering, affectionate hug was far more honest about how much they care about one another than a kiss would have been.  In fact I think the hug spoke volumes more than their actual conversation did.

Their conversation, while some thought it wasn't "emotional enough" I found to be perfectly heartwrenching and honest.  I'm not quite sure what some people wanted?  Tears?  And the emails (both of them) were great too.  Didn't gush, didn't beg for forgiveness, didn't get overly melodramatic but it still all carried the same basic message - that they love you and can't lose you again.  It was all very in character in my opinion.

Sigh.  "Ashley is an incredible woman.  I didn't like saying goodbye."  Image IPB


I just got my "Kaidan hug" broke my heart . It was a very emotional scene. Did wonders for me and my shepard. I figure'd he'd need some time and soul searching. I let him go... for now. I have a galaxy to save! Plus once you've been with Shep you'll never be the same! XD

Also you guys are saying that there is a little scene with the photo? That is so special! Aww! I can't wait till we are our own bosses, sock it to the reapers and have things patched up with kaidan. ME3 is going to be epic like a good movie or book~

My renegade shep was like screw u kaiden, I likey this garrius action. You've been replaced :P

#145
I RedScorpion I

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yea i was quite disappointed with the re-united parts like you say they dont really seem to care cept for ash who then disowns you after i even saved her ass in me1 just makes u feel like u waste dur time importing your charecter. Even at end game you cant find Ash to try and patch things up and even anderson is underplayed.... does the council even exist for that matter save for that 1 conversation? Ah i dont get me wrong its still an epic game but dont know why so much was left out.



Only tali seems to care which i felt abit bad cus i never used her at all in me1 yet she is the only 1 to care at all. Hope Me3 will have better ways to sort these out or even some DLC to start patching things up in the years to come while waiting for me3.... mind you with that being said there was only 2 DLC's while waiting for me2 and only the asteroid mission was decent so i wont get my hopes up ;-)

#146
DarchAngelDavid

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Liara cares for Shepard more then people are giving her credit for. Everything she is going through right now is because of him and she saved his life.

#147
batmike

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I thought the moment wrex and shepard met up was really heart warming, you could tell how much wrex respected him and the look on shepards face was like "**** yeah I kicked your arse in gear"

#148
MICHELLE7

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Corti78 wrote...



ENDING SPOILERS

If you blow the base and tell TIM off you basically cut all ties with Cerberus. Jacob says something along the lines of "Nice way to tell the boss you're quitting." Miranda says something similar.

Its pretty much like ME1, the crew was not just an "alliance" crew they were Shepard's crew. The same thing happened here, the crew decided to side with Shepard instead of Cerberus. I expect the Normandy to have a new paint job in ME3, possibly a Spectre paint job. Who knows.

On an added note: If Shepard dies at the end Joker is the one that reports to TIM and basically tells TIM off too. It looks like ME3 we'll finally be the ones in complete charge.


That's what I did but Jacob and Miranda are dead...might try talking to some of the others though.

And back to the helmet scene of Ash that nobody can find in game...I wonder if maybe they included that scene in a new game that doesn't have an import of a previous save. It did look like Shep was remembering Ash in the scene. Perhaps they gave the new players a little something extra to let them know that this was a potential love interest for ME3 even if they couldn't interact with them this time around. Just a little something to establish the fact that the two of them had a history.