398 réponses à ce sujet

[Maboroshi]

Many modern AAA gaming studios have forgotten that gameplay mechanics and words can be powerful tools in conveying the message they want to the player. I personally think words and gameplay mechanics are far better than pretty graphics and over the top animation to do the job. They are also far more cost effective. 

 

But since many gamers these days are all about feels and looks...Well...they have to follow the market demand, don't they ?

Sadly, the videogame industry's over-reliance on shock and awe has come to replace the lasting joy of wonder and amazement. One of the more pernicious side effects of the end of literacy and the triumph of spectacle.

[Rawgrim]

True, but Bio's never been any good at matching gameplay to story.

 

Baldur's Gate 2 worked really well in that area.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

The devs shouldn't have marketed DA as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, then. That is exactly the reason why people expected DA to be very much like Pillars or BG.

 

They literally did an interview before DA:I's release were they talked about how Baldur's Gate is in the past and how they'll be advancing and doing new things....

[Cantina]

I'll definitely be getting Pillars of Eternity.

 

While I enjoy the DA games, I enjoy games like PoE more.

 

The problem with a large amount of games these days is there is too much hand holding.

 

I don't hate DAI and I don't love it it either. Its certainly not in best games of all time list and its not in my worst games of all time list either.

 

There is an old saying that fits Bioware perfectly: "Money talks and bulls**t walks."

[Lukas Trevelyan]

If you have any idea of how to disrespect them more, please teach me. I would love to. They disrespected me beyond redemption with the low quality of their products. PoE, Divinity and a lot others are perfect proof of how they could have done better.

Just because you prefer games like PoE and Divinity over DA:I, doesn't mean the product is of "low quality". 

You can almost see the tears, sweat and blood that went into creating DA:I, massive world, diverse and grasping main quests, multi-dimensional companions, etc... It came out and I'm saying this as objectively as possible pretty well, despite it's flaws. 

[Farangbaa]

Thanks your post is the perfect proof that a person that don't hate Inquisition is one unable to think properly as in understand anything other than the obvious writting Gaider and his friends make for the children (as in Inquisition).

Lol.

I'm not the one talking about running into dumb people in single player games.

And for your information: I love PoE. I also love DA:I. Both are entirely different games.

The devs shouldn't have marketed DA as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, then. That is exactly the reason why people expected DA to be very much like Pillars or BG.

Is it really so difficult to understand they've always wanted to make a cinematic, 3rd person 3D RPG, but couldn't because of technology and money? That's why they call it a spiritual successor, not a direct successor.

Bioware never wanted to make isometric RPGs, they just had to because that was the best way at the time.

[DementedSheep]

I haven't played PoE but from the looks of it, it would be more my cup of tea than DA:I.

 

That said I'm getting really sick of this attitude that bioware should quit or don't care about the DA franchise because they are taking the games in a direction you personally do not like and the insults levied at people who do like what they are putting out now. It reminds me of the people who throw hissy fits every time a band tries a new style of music.

 

Besides if they did keep making BG2 type games all that would happen is that they would get a different (or possibly even the same) set of people complaining they are a one trick pony or always playing safe.

[Draining Dragon]

Just because you prefer games like PoE and Divinity over DA:I, doesn't mean the product is of "low quality". 

You can almost see the tears, sweat and blood that went into creating DA:I, massive world, diverse and grasping main quests, multi-dimensional companions, etc... It came out and I'm saying this as objectively as possible pretty well, despite it's flaws.

...you're not mentioning the laughably simplistic side content, the button-mash combat, and how the entire game has generally been made even more generic. You also aren't mentioning how downright LAZY they were with both testing it (it was a bug-ridden mess on release, more so then previous games) and with porting it to PC.

I'm also still angry that they built hype over the game using features they eventually cut. Especially since they cut the features that would have been unique in favor of generic ones or ones lifted from titles from past years.

[Rawgrim]

Lol.

I'm not the one talking about running into dumb people in single player games.

And for your information: I love PoE. I also love DA:I. Both are entirely different games.


Is it really so difficult to understand they've always wanted to make a cinematic, 3rd person 3D RPG, but couldn't because of technology and money? That's why they call it a spiritual successor, not a direct successor.

Bioware never wanted to make isometric RPGs, they just had to because that was the best way at the time.

 

Its not about the isometric view. Its about tactical combat, freedom over your own character, very little limitations, and to let the player use all of the abilities the character has at any given time. DA:I has nothing like that.

[Rawgrim]

They literally did an interview before DA:I's release were they talked about how Baldur's Gate is in the past and how they'll be advancing and doing new things....

 

I know. And they utterly missed the target. The only thing it has in common with BG1 is that both have semi open worlds.

[Teddie Sage]

Yo, Tishen, just because I don't like reading in video games doesn't mean I can't read.

However, whenever someone expresses themselves through sarcasm online, I can't understand them at all.

[Wintermist]

Spirit of Baldur's Gate.

Dialogue depth of Planescape Torment.

Gameplay like Neverwinter Nights 2.

 

What's not to like?!

[Auztin]

Wow some people have a superiority complex.Get off your high horses.Dragon Age:Origins was not unique.Art design & game play was generic. Storyline was cliche but had interesting characters & backdrop.(I actually enjoyed Origins) DA:I played to it's strengths & tried new things unlike that so called Pillars of Eternity which to me looks & most probably plays like another typical old style game with nothing really new or unique. One is AAA story based & cinematic while the other is retro niche game that PC players will play.Also, before I am called "dumb" learn how to not be so illiterate & narcissistic.

[Farangbaa]

Its not about the isometric view. Its about tactical combat, freedom over your own character, very little limitations, and to let the player use all of the abilities the character has at any given time. DA:I has nothing like that.

Lol.
implying there's no tactical combat whatsoever in DA:I.
Implying DA:I doesn't have freedom over your character. I'll wager a few bets on how my S&S warrior is nothing like most others. (even if just for the fact I take zero Vanguard skills)
Implying PoE doesn't severely restrict you. It does so in other ways. Limitations on how many times you can cast a spell or use an ability, for starters. And don't start with calling it tactical. As long as they allow me to 'camp' inside a castle almost directly next to the room of a 'boss', there's nothing tactical about it. It's just annoying. Yes, in certain places this isn't possible. Like your own bloody stronghold where you have a bed

[Ascendra]

I think that only happens when the devs think fancy graphics are all they need. Just look at "The Last of Us." beautiful graphics, great story, awesome voice actors.  Their expressions, everything helped pull you into the story.  I do agree that they would have had to raise much more money for that, but I don't agree that written words conveys things better than visuals. I think both are great when used properly.  With Pillars, I find myself skimming the descriptions of the character's actions when it's added in the middle of the spoken dialogue.  It's a bit jarring and takes me out of what they are saying when I'm focused on reading their actions. 

 

You're probably right. I did not play the Last of Us, but I heard its good (just not my personal cup of tea, I prefer making my own characters). But from what I heard about it I also think its easier to animate than say Inquisition. For example because you have 1-2 preset protagonists with a rather linear story. If you try to animate PoE then I think it would be madness. Inquisition has 4 races and even there your character sometimes makes ridiculous faces, PoE has what 7-8 races plus a couple subraces. With that character animation madness could you then allow yourself to animate subtle things like Eder winking in a conversation? For me it was important as I could easily visualize the character and get a feel for who he was.

That aside there are things like the first description of biawac that said something along the lines of the "wind getting under your skin and into your bones, trying to rip the marrow from them". I'm not sure how you could even animate such a thing as these are essentially feelings the PC experiences. Or that conversation with a dwarven lady.

 

On the other hand there are things like Kotor2 where several conversations with a senile old woman made me realize what a wreck my character was and what she was feeling. So this effect was obviously achieved via several dialogue lines and a good voice acting.

 

So maybe it all depends on what things the developers consider important to animate/voice/show. i guess which brings me to your first point with which I am now agreeing with   .

Aaanyway Im just happy that PoE is what is it. Im definitely enjoying the descriptive bits and every detail that they have put and I would not change it in any way. I also like Inquisition, just seem to prefer reading more it seems. I just think they are different games which moved quite far away from each other. Mixing them up or trying to turn one into another would, in my opinion, be bad since they are obviously built around different concepts - visual vs written.

[Rawgrim]

Lol.
implying there's no tactical combat whatsoever in DA:I.
Implying DA:I doesn't have freedom over your character. I'll wager a few bets on how my S&S warrior is nothing like most others. (even if just for the fact I take zero Vanguard skills)
Implying PoE doesn't severely restrict you. It does so in other ways. Limitations on how many times you can cast a spell or use an ability, for starters. And don't start with calling it tactical. As long as they allow me to 'camp' inside a castle almost directly next to the room of a 'boss', there's nothing tactical about it. It's just annoying. Yes, in certain places this isn't possible. Like your own bloody stronghold where you have a bed

 

When people can button mash through DAI on Nightmare it has zero tactical requirements whatsoever. Yeah, people have done that.

 

You have 4 racial choices, and 5 choices for what weapon you use to kill stuff. That's the choices DA:I gives you.

 

The limitations on how many spells you can cast per day or whatever is in the lore. Pillars doesn't use a mana system like DA does.

 

Well yeah, you can't set up a camp inside your own home. Go figure. But you can sleep in your own bed instead. I know. It makes zero sense, right? Setting up a camp fire and a tent inside buildings. Not used to logic in games, are you?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Wow some people have a superiority complex.Get off your high horses.Dragon Age:Origins was not unique.Art design & game play was generic. Storyline was cliche but had interesting characters & backdrop.(I actually enjoyed Origins) DA:I played to it's strengths & tried new things unlike that so called Pillars of Eternity which to me looks & most probably plays like another typical old style game with nothing really new or unique. One is AAA story based & cinematic while the other is retro niche game that PC players will play.Also, before I am called "dumb" learn how to not be so illiterate & narcissistic.

 

DAI's gameplay is not generic ? Oh wait, its a clone and mashup of Diablo, World of Warcraft and Witcher 2. 

 

DAI's art design is not generic ? It is. Its typical high fantasy. 

 

DAI's conversation and environment is a Skyrim / Elder Scrolls rip-off.

 

DAI is story based and cinematic...Yet DAO has a tighter story, better plot, and you can actually enter cinematic mode when talking to people.

 

So it is you who should get off your high horse and go home. It is you who have a superiority complex. Check Metacritic and other review sites and see the reviews for Pillars of Eternity vs. Dragon Age Inquisition...

 

Sigh...Kids these days....  

[Medhia_Nox]

Tactics was always what the number crunch roleplayers did... it holds incredibly little interest to me.  

 

And PoE isn't revolutionizing it (quite the opposite since it's retro). 

 

So it's funny how people say "stupid people can't grasp this complex system" - it's the same system that's been regurgitated since D&D was first invented.  And people pride themselves on grasping its "depth".  

 

NOTE:  And I'm enjoying Pillars - but not for what numbers crunchers call roleplaying.

[Teddie Sage]

Sigh...Kids these days....  

Calling people names doesn't make you the wiser one, Tishen.

[Rawgrim]

Tactics was always what the number crunch roleplayers did... it holds incredibly little interest to me.  

 

And PoE isn't revolutionizing it (quite the opposite since it's retro). 

 

So it's funny how people say "stupid people can't grasp this complex system" - it's the same system that's been regurgitated since D&D was first invented.  And people pride themselves on grasping its "depth".  

 

NOTE:  And I'm enjoying Pillars - but not for what numbers crunchers call roleplaying.

 

I wouldn't say POE is that deep either. But if you look at BG2, you have so many factor to consider. Spell resistance. Which spells to counter this and that spell - quite a lot there since the game has about 350 different ones. What weapons to use vs different opponents. Some monsters are resistant to non magical weapons, or slashing weapons etc. A decent party composition is a factor as well, I guess. since some of the companions don't go well together at all.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Rawgrim:  And this is a serious question.  That is roleplaying to you?

And by the time BG 2 came out I was so familiar with D&D that those spells weren't imposing at all.  I get that you're saying more options is nice... what I'm going to argue is that more options can be totally pointless.  I mean - how many "elemental blasts" do I need? Then there's necrotic "blast" and mind "blast" and spirit "blast" and force "blast"  (something I find irritating since DA:O) 

 

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One thing I am really enjoying in Pillars are a few of the dialogue twists - some options have produced some very cool results. 

[Wintermist]

It's like watching "Xbox is better" - "Playstation is better" over and over....

[AWTEW]

Meh, POE way better value for money than DAI.

[Shechinah]

While this has been a delightful tour into generalising generations, shaming and whatnot, this seems to have derailed from its original purpose of shaming one game using another game rather than being about appreciating the other for its merits or providing constructive feedback on improving the aforementioned shamed game so you might want to rerail it, change it or move it to the off-topic.

[Rawgrim]

@Rawgrim:  And this is a serious question.  That is roleplaying to you?

And by the time BG 2 came out I was so familiar with D&D that those spells weren't imposing at all.  I get that you're saying more options is nice... what I'm going to argue is that more options can be totally pointless.  I mean - how many "elemental blasts" do I need? Then there's necrotic "blast" and mind "blast" and spirit "blast" and force "blast"  (something I find irritating since DA:O) 

 

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One thing I am really enjoying in Pillars are a few of the dialogue twists - some options have produced some very cool results. 

 

No. I was talking about combat and tactics. Roleplaying is being able to create your own character. Stats, motivations, goals, personality etc, and being able to play that and develop it during a game. How much freedom a game gives you to do that is what I consider to be a good roleplaying game. With video games and PC games there will be limitations, and that can't be avoided. But I don't think its a good thing when a series just removes more and more of those options, and just switches the entire focus over to what "role" you have during a fight and then just claim that that is what roleplaying is.