1428 réponses à ce sujet

[WrexKroganKing]

I was really, really looking forward to importing my level 60 Adept, and continuing on using my favourite class, but from what you guys are saying there seems no point



Soldier it is I guess...=/

[kerblagh]

This is depressing. The adept is supposed to control the battlefield and all we can do is warp? What happened to 'never fire a shot' with universal cool downs? What do I do while I wait, skip rope? If they would just increase the health of the bad guys, it would be fine. I think maybe I should wait a week to buy the game and see if they fix it.

[Lambs09]

Adepts are still very useful, especially on the harder difficulties. The "weak guys" without armor can swarm you and being able to Pull (think Lift from ME1) every two seconds is extremely handy. Also, Warp works on shields and armor, and can be volleyed around corners.



You're not supposed to solo everything. Your team is supposed to complement the gaps in your abilities.



Finally, being able to Pull then Throw to jettison someone off a ledge if pretty rewarding.

[Orlfane]

Lambs09 wrote...

Adepts are still very useful, especially on the harder difficulties. The "weak guys" without armor can swarm you and being able to Pull (think Lift from ME1) every two seconds is extremely handy. Also, Warp works on shields and armor, and can be volleyed around corners.

You're not supposed to solo everything. Your team is supposed to complement the gaps in your abilities.

Finally, being able to Pull then Throw to jettison someone off a ledge if pretty rewarding.

I agree with this statement. I'm having a blast as an adept. The ability to arc your pull and warp is just awesome. Also so very true about hurling enemies off cliffs or 100 yards into the air, there is so much satisfaction when I use that combo.

[Mikey_205]

Great so either my Biotic is tooled up on steroids or he's impotent minus one power. Why no middleground?

[bluecapsule6]

This thread has got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read. Hoffburger points out that on harder difficulty levels, biotics aren't fun to use since enemies are practically dead by the time their shields/armor are down, and tons of people respond by calling him a noob for not "using tactics" to take their shields down before using biotics.



I think the problem is that some people wanted biotics to work like the did in ME1, ie massive crowd control. Bioware changed biotics from "crowd control" to "finishing moves". This wouldn't be so bad if the ratio of health to armor/shields were a bit higher, but a lot of times your teammates will simply finish off the enemy with gunfire before the animation for your biotics even finish.

[ELEMENT ZERooo]

I have to defend the new adept controls here because I really don't see what the issue is. All that's really different about it is that lift and singularity have been sort of combined since they were really the same thing in ME1 anyways. Except lift could sometimes send your enemies into the friggin SKY where it was impossible to shoot them, then they fell and didn't get hurt at all. But indoors, they really worked the same. And Stasis was useless anyways.



Warp works a lot better though. It actually smacks into them with a "thud" and knocks them back instead of just making them look sick and crumble. And the fact you can control your biotic powers without even bringing up the wheel is pretty sweet and makes you feel a lot more powerful and fluid. I really don't see what the big deal is. I've been playing as my ME1 adept and I'm having a blast. As long as I have my SMG, I'm good.



The main thing you want to do is use your biotics to render your opponents in peculiar positions and just let your squad finish them off for you by directing them around with the MUCH better squad commands. Using an adept properly requires patience, precision, and not just rushing in shooting everything yourself. Sometimes you don't have a choice, but they come in handy when you're pinned down.

[Chclve]

I was planning on playing on veteran. But after reading this thread i must say im leaing against playing on normal. They sould have made it so that the more shield/armor an enemy has, the more resistant it should be to powers. Then with the scaling shields on higher difficulty it would have made sence.

[Ahglock]

kerblagh wrote...

This is depressing. The adept is supposed to control the battlefield and all we can do is warp? What happened to 'never fire a shot' with universal cool downs? What do I do while I wait, skip rope? If they would just increase the health of the bad guys, it would be fine. I think maybe I should wait a week to buy the game and see if they fix it.

Well technically you never have to fire a shot.  You just warp, warp., warp...oh and then you can finish them off with pull or something but a pistol would be quiker.  The universal cooldowns are fairly short, though warp is the longest at a beefy 6 seconds.(which gets reduced with training and upgrades)

On a side not singularity sucks hard IMO, the area of effect is so effing tiny nothing ever moves into it and I'm lucky to hit 2 people.  Maybe once I've evolved it, it will have a worthwhile area of effect.  Right now lift is just better in every way. (1.75 meter radius at level 3 I think)  It is very rare for enemies to be that close to each other.

[Zakmonster85]

I generally use my biotic/tech abilities when I'm on the move. It's more accurate than trying to sight my weapon and it can usually one-shot an enemy without shields/armor. Those that do have shields/armor will still get knocked back slightly, allowing me time to get to cover or do something else to make his day worse.

When I'm behind cover, there's little need to use biotic or tech abilities. Sure, you could lift someone out of cover or arc an incendiary blast to take out an armored enemy. But you could just shoot them twice in the head and they die.

Still, I understand why most people are unhappy. The gameplay changes are somewhat radical and are a completely different experience. I suggest sticking with it for a few days and trying out all the classes at least. I've already played through the first 2 missions with all the classes. I'm finding the Sentinel to be the most suited for my gameplay which is strange because I never played the Sentinel in ME1.

Don't get too attached to class names. Play the game with the style that is most fun for you, regardless of class.

Modifié par Zakmonster85, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:23 .

[Ahglock]

Lambs09 wrote...

Adepts are still very useful, especially on the harder difficulties. The "weak guys" without armor can swarm you and being able to Pull (think Lift from ME1) every two seconds is extremely handy. Also, Warp works on shields and armor, and can be volleyed around corners.

You're not supposed to solo everything. Your team is supposed to complement the gaps in your abilities.

Finally, being able to Pull then Throw to jettison someone off a ledge if pretty rewarding.

Um what weak guys without armor.  I have only seen enemies without armor or shields in the intorductory mission, once you are past the trainig mode everything was either armored or shielded or both.  On top of that once I am trhoguh the armor or shield they drop stuipid fast too bullets so there isn't much need to use my biotics for cool trickks.  I do frequently because yes it is cool, but it owuld be easier to just shoot them. 

[tonnactus]

So its true.They downgraded biotics from good tools for crowdcontrol to fancy,but unnessecary redundant finishing moves.
Dragon ball Z biotics.
But okay,in the sentinel video:"Take down their shields,then finish them off with a throw."
So its not really a suprise.
Really great, bioware...

Modifié par tonnactus, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:36 .

[MGIII]

bluecapsule6 wrote...

This thread has got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read. Hoffburger points out that on harder difficulty levels, biotics aren't fun to use since enemies are practically dead by the time their shields/armor are down, and tons of people respond by calling him a noob for not "using tactics" to take their shields down before using biotics.

I think the problem is that some people wanted biotics to work like the did in ME1, ie massive crowd control. Bioware changed biotics from "crowd control" to "finishing moves". This wouldn't be so bad if the ratio of health to armor/shields were a bit higher, but a lot of times your teammates will simply finish off the enemy with gunfire before the animation for your biotics even finish.

Oh, it's cool that the enemies in your game stand out in the open, susceptible to gunfire, and that your squadmates can curve bullets around cover to finish them off.

For the rest of us, Slamming, or Shockwaving them works just fine. The CC is definitely still there.

[bluecapsule6]

MGIII wrote...

bluecapsule6 wrote...

This thread has got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read. Hoffburger points out that on harder difficulty levels, biotics aren't fun to use since enemies are practically dead by the time their shields/armor are down, and tons of people respond by calling him a noob for not "using tactics" to take their shields down before using biotics.

I think the problem is that some people wanted biotics to work like the did in ME1, ie massive crowd control. Bioware changed biotics from "crowd control" to "finishing moves". This wouldn't be so bad if the ratio of health to armor/shields were a bit higher, but a lot of times your teammates will simply finish off the enemy with gunfire before the animation for your biotics even finish.

Oh, it's cool that the enemies in your game stand out in the open, susceptible to gunfire, and that your squadmates can curve bullets around cover to finish them off.

For the rest of us, Slamming, or Shockwaving them works just fine. The CC is definitely still there.

Are you playing on hardcore/insanity? How are you using biotics for CC when just about every single enemy has shields/armor. 

[MGIII]

bluecapsule6 wrote...

MGIII wrote...

bluecapsule6 wrote...

This thread has got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read. Hoffburger points out that on harder difficulty levels, biotics aren't fun to use since enemies are practically dead by the time their shields/armor are down, and tons of people respond by calling him a noob for not "using tactics" to take their shields down before using biotics.

I think the problem is that some people wanted biotics to work like the did in ME1, ie massive crowd control. Bioware changed biotics from "crowd control" to "finishing moves". This wouldn't be so bad if the ratio of health to armor/shields were a bit higher, but a lot of times your teammates will simply finish off the enemy with gunfire before the animation for your biotics even finish.

Oh, it's cool that the enemies in your game stand out in the open, susceptible to gunfire, and that your squadmates can curve bullets around cover to finish them off.

For the rest of us, Slamming, or Shockwaving them works just fine. The CC is definitely still there.

Are you playing on hardcore/insanity? How are you using biotics for CC when just about every single enemy has shields/armor. 

Insanity, thankyouvrymuch. The best way to play a game is at its hardest dificulty, as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, armor and shields go very fast with concentrated fire or powers. However, finishing off enemies that are behind cover is tricky with munitions. That's where biotics come in. More often than not, you're going to have a fair amount of enemies running about naked--no armor or shields. Biotcis are the best way to take them out, and it saves you ammo that can go towards other enemies' shields, barriers and whatnot.

Nothing quite like Pulling an enemy over a chasm and watching them fall to their deaths.  

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

MGIII wrote...

Insanity, thankyouvrymuch. The best way to play a game is at its hardest dificulty, as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, armor and shields go very fast with concentrated fire or powers. However, finishing off enemies that are behind cover is tricky with munitions. That's where biotics come in. More often than not, you're going to have a fair amount of enemies running about naked--no armor or shields. Biotcis are the best way to take them out, and it saves you ammo that can go towards other enemies' shields, barriers and whatnot.

I don't think an adept is supposed to be about finishing off the last guy hiding behind a box. Maybe biotics is supposed to be a secondary attack for other classes, but not for the adept.

Biotics need to be fixed.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:57 .

[MGIII]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Insanity, thankyouvrymuch. The best way to play a game is at its hardest dificulty, as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, armor and shields go very fast with concentrated fire or powers. However, finishing off enemies that are behind cover is tricky with munitions. That's where biotics come in. More often than not, you're going to have a fair amount of enemies running about naked--no armor or shields. Biotcis are the best way to take them out, and it saves you ammo that can go towards other enemies' shields, barriers and whatnot.

I don't think an adept is supposed to be about finishing off the last guy hiding behind a box. Maybe biotics is supposed to be a secondary attack for other classes, but not for the adept.

Biotics need to be fixed.

Well, in my experiences, Warp is far and away the best individual skill in the game, with Mordin's contributions being close behind.

Truth of the matter is, biotics need nerfing. In ME1, they were the be all end all. The consensus "best" classes last game were Vanguard and Adept, and it was indisputable. Biotics ruled the scene.

I think because people are used to being a biotic God, they feel slighted when they're a lesser, but still very formidable, combatant. It's unfortunate you feel that way, but biotics do have a place. It's just that now they're level with munitions and tech skills.

Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 09:03 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I think because people are used to being a biotic God, they feel slighted when they're a lesser, but still very formidable, combatant. It's unfortunate you feel that way, but biotics do have a place. It's just that now they're level with munitions and tech skills.

Nah, people want to cast more than just Warp as an adept. We don't want to be gods. No reason to insult us.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 28 janvier 2010 - 09:12 .

[bluecapsule6]

Hmm, there's some conflicting information here. MGIII says that most enemies don't have armor/shields even on insanity, while others have said most enemies do.



Warp is great, but people are just missing the visceral thrill of throwing people around. Yes, biotics were overpowered in ME1, but you have to admit the nerf is pretty extreme. Biotics simply don't feel as fun.

[MGIII]

bluecapsule6 wrote...

Hmm, there's some conflicting information here. MGIII says that most enemies don't have armor/shields even on insanity, while others have said most enemies do.

Warp is great, but people are just missing the visceral thrill of throwing people around. Yes, biotics were overpowered in ME1, but you have to admit the nerf is pretty extreme. Biotics simply don't feel as fun.

Woah, where have I said that? All enemies have armor/shields on Insanity, but your small guns can take care of those rather easily. A decent squadmate's Warp/Overload will one-shot a regular enemies' protection most of the time. After that, the long-biotic game opens up.

I wasn't insulting anyone, either, Wiz. I can only see that as the only reason why people are disappointed. If you could use biotics on all enemies, all the time, then this game would be broken.

Don't knock it 'til you try it. You can manipulate enemies in far greater ways in ME2 than 1. I **** myself when I Con. shotted an enemy white it was Warped during the Slam animation.

The screams were satisfying.

Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 09:20 .

[Rilus]

MGIII is completely missing the point. We're complaining because other than Warp, nothing else is useful against enemies with shields and armor. What's her response? "Just shoot them! LAWL!"

Wow... That's exaclty what people are complaining about. Way to miss the point. In fact, that's exactly why we're saying that simply playing a Soldier or Infiltrator is the best choice. You get to damage their shields, armor, AND health, instead of spamming Warp until your're blue in the face.

MGIII wrote...

Woah, where have I said that?
All enemies have armor/shields on Insanity, but your small guns can take care of those rather easily. A decent squadmate's Warp/Overload will one-shot a regular enemies' protection most of the time. After that, the long-biotic game opens up.

Have you even played this game? What long biotic game? You mean the one-shot kill after enemies are down to their health??

I wasn't insulting anyone, either, Wiz. I can only see that as the only reason why people are disappointed.
If you could use biotics on all enemies, all the time, then this game would be broken.

Jebus... We're not asking for god powers! We're asking for EVEN powers! " If you could use biotics on all enemies, all the time, then this game would be broken." This is just too rich. Is that why we can use guns on ALL enemies ALL the time? But that's not overpowered, somehow, right? If you're going to make it harder when you change difficulty levels, make it difficult for ALL classes across the board, not just a couple.

Modifié par Rilus, 28 janvier 2010 - 09:33 .

[dissonance-zaon]

MGIII wrote...

Well, in my experiences, Warp is far and away the best individual skill in the game, with Mordin's contributions being close behind.

Truth of the matter is, biotics need nerfing. In ME1, they were the be all end all. The consensus "best" classes last game were Vanguard and Adept, and it was indisputable. Biotics ruled the scene.

I think because people are used to being a biotic God, they feel slighted when they're a lesser, but still very formidable, combatant. It's unfortunate you feel that way, but biotics do have a place. It's just that now they're level with munitions and tech skills.

You're missing the point so much that it's only worth noting to you but not worth explaining in detail... but I'll summarize it quickly:

Being a Soldier that's restricted to using a Pistol until Shields and Armor are BOTH removed from an enemy is a bit absurd. So grossly absurd that it's not a part of the game.

So... why does this apply to Biotics? "Balance" is the wrong answer, btw.

[bluecapsule6]

Nobody is saying that biotics should work on all enemies, all the time. Just a bit more balance would be nice, such as more health/less shields, or maybe longer cool downs but more effective biotics.

I guess I misinterpreted your "More often than not, you're going to have a fair amount of enemies running about naked--no armor or shields." I see what you mean now, but it still brings us back to the problem of having to bring down their shields before being able to use biotics as CC. After their shields are down, they're pretty much as good as dead anyways. This is what people are complaining about.

[MGIII]

I can turn around and say the same thing about tech abilities. They can't do anything to Armor, so they're useless.

How am I missing the point again? I answered the thread title and OP directly: biotics needed to be nerfed because they made the first game laughably easy (on top of an already easy game).

The problem people have with biotics is that they only work on unprotected enemies. I addressed that, but I'll clarify in case anyone missed it or misinterpreted what I'm saying: it would break the game.

Krogans from the first game behaved similarly to all enemies on Hardcore and Insanity...and Korgans were the toughest normal enemies around.

This way promotes balance, and forces the player to use tactics and their squadmates. That's why they were nerfed biotics (because they're far from useless).

Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 09:48 .

[aswan4]

what is the ratio of shields to health on insane?