Why were biotics made useless in ME2?
#276
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 03:58
#277
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 03:59
MGIII wrote...
If you could use biotics on all enemies, all the time, then this game would be broken.
The only broken things in Mass Effect 1 were bastion stasis and immunity.
Nothing else.You could lift a geht colossus with master lift,but that has a much shorter duration then when used on a regular, not bosstype enemy.There wasnt any need to change that.There fix what never be broken.Like with the ammo system called thermoclips.
#278
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 04:35
tonnactus wrote...
MGIII wrote...
If you could use biotics on all enemies, all the time, then this game would be broken.
The only broken things in Mass Effect 1 were bastion stasis and immunity.
Nothing else.You could lift a geht colossus with master lift,but that has a much shorter duration then when used on a regular, not bosstype enemy.There wasnt any need to change that.There fix what never be broken.Like with the ammo system called thermoclips.
Cannot agree more. Although I think the Biotic being useless only happens on hard and insane. Most weak enemies don't have protection, so most of the time you can just biotic his a** right away. As for bosses or high tier enemies, well whats the point of them being tough if you can just pull then throw them away? Thats where teamates and guns come in...I think it is pretty well balance gameplay wise.
#279
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 04:51
As long if they didnt die because of that and have a high physics resistence,its okay.In Mass Effect 1 biotics are helpers.Keep/disable dangerous enemies at distance(krogans) with throw/lift,group together some regular enemies with singularity.You have to finish them of with weapons anyway in most cases.Now it seems its the other way round,but biotics not really needed for the finish.(only to save to ammo maybee)daemon1129 wrote...
As for bosses or high tier enemies, well whats the point of them being tough if you can just pull then throw them away?
Modifié par tonnactus, 28 janvier 2010 - 04:52 .
#280
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 04:57
kerblagh wrote...
Is it even possible to change it at this point? I want to have an amazing first playthrough, I don't want to have to shoot/warp people all the damn time and use the rest of my powers for finishing moves(if i get a chance to pull them off). Why cant they just increase health? Is that so hard? I think that biotics don't fit well into their shooting focused game, so they are phasing them out.
I switched classes and restarted ME2 because of how much I disliked the new Vanguard. The new Vanguard feels like a kamikaze with a bomb strapped to their chest rather than the tankie type from Mass Effect. Since restarting as a Sentinel, I have been enjoying the game alot more.
#281
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 05:16
If biotics were any more useful in ME2 (if they could be used on protected foes), it would be far and away the best option against opponents.
Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 05:17 .
#282
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 05:27
MGIII wrote...
People will come to respect biotics' new role in the ME universe.
If biotics were any more useful in ME2 (if they could be used on protected foes), it would be far and away the best option against opponents.
What new role? warp spamming? Sentinals can do that, and their other abilities actually work. Our other stuff is useless until its too late. what the hell is the point of an adept? What do we have that other people dont?
I do hope they add more health before I start playing.
#283
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 05:38
Really? Mass effect universe has books where a biotic krogan lift a tank.In the codex,asari warriors are the best soldiers in the galaxy,krogan battlemasters too. And now cannonfooder with shields are not even affected a bit? This is not even explainable with gameplay balance, because that doesnt exist when tech and combat classes are so much better and biotics are jokes.MGIII wrote...
People will come to respect biotics' new role in the ME universe.
Really, not even the engineer in insanity was such gimped.(a class in enjoy despite of that)
Modifié par tonnactus, 28 janvier 2010 - 05:41 .
#284
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 06:08
kerblagh wrote...
MGIII wrote...
People will come to respect biotics' new role in the ME universe.
If biotics were any more useful in ME2 (if they could be used on protected foes), it would be far and away the best option against opponents.
What new role? warp spamming? Sentinals can do that, and their other abilities actually work. Our other stuff is useless until its too late. what the hell is the point of an adept? What do we have that other people dont?
I do hope they add more health before I start playing.
Their new role is waiting on the ship while bunch of soldiers and techs go finish the job
#285
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 06:30
Catlana wrote...
Camachox88 wrote...
The only biotic power I use is my vangaurds charge.Bow before the charge followed by the point blank shotgun blast.
I keep knocking enemies off into never, never land that makes all kinds of issues. Mostly doors will not open up because not all enemies are "dead", so I have to reload. Also, Vanguards getting lift instead of barrier is pretty stupid.
do to this being a general discussion board and not game play I am going to keep this spoiler very very vague
a certian teammate has barrier once you make the team mate loyal you can then use it on all charicters (even new ones)
hopfully that helps
#286
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 06:33
Couldn't they have simply increased the cooldown and reduced the effectiveness of the biotics skills on high levels instead of this nonsense where armor and shields protect enemies from biotics? Funny how this doesn't work in cutscenes though. Seeing how every enemy has a shield or armor, one starts to wonder how the hell Jack got out of the prison and the facility where she grew up. Maybe she played on casual?
#287
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:12
#288
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:20
Engineer/Sentinel?What do you like when playing a adept?Powers?WrexKroganKing wrote...
So guys, should I continue my level 60 Adept into ME2 or just change to Soldier? I plan to play on Veteran for my first playthrough and from the sounds of it there's no point =/
Modifié par tonnactus, 28 janvier 2010 - 07:20 .
#289
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:25
Another slight thing is, I really want to use my Blood Dragon armor, but it'd be wasted on a Soldier =/
#290
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:34
The reason that a person's health goes down quickly after their shields are down is because, wait, they don't have any shields or amor! And Biotics are still incredibly useful, just in a different fashion. Warp prevents all the regenerating buggers from doing so, Pull/Singularity disables enemies, etc...
Again, the information regarding the ease of eliminating someone after their shields are down with a gun is exaggerated, especially for an Adept. We have low shields, low health and no inherent weapon bonus skills. Taking out an enemy without Shields takes a fair bit of ammo until you get your bonus weapon, and even then Biotics are often more useful.
Biotics have been changed into a far more tactical weapon, hence why they now curve around corners. On a per shot basis, with Biotics on Insanity, you will do more damage and take less damage when compared with most guns (If you use the powers correctly, don't continually Push a shielded enemy obviously). The balance to this is that you have a cooldown, so that you aren't doing damage again and again from around corners. Also, you can no longer take cover, toss a Singularity, disable six enemies, and then toss a warp and end even Insanity battles in under 30 seconds.
I understand the issue that many of you have with the changes, especially if you played ME1, however, simply because your two-shot instakill has been turned into three doesn't mean that all hell has broken lose (Lift+Throw ---> Warp/(Shield Attack)+Pull+Throw). Biotics still have a fair bite, but we can no longer disable entire rooms and then kill them all without thought for tactics. One of the reasons that ME1 combat was largely uninteresting (besides the fun of chucking people like nobody's business) was because 99% of the time it required no tactical thought as a high-level Biotic. Now, you have to think before you run headfirst into a room and start gunning and throwing. Biotics are fine as they are, although I would not be opposed to a slight kinetic effect from Biotics affecting enemies.
When I first started playing I too was upset at how different things were, and how it was no longer possible to do the fun things of ME1. But, I got over it, and I learned to appreciate a lot of the fun things that you can do in ME2 (Pull + Warp = Mobile Bomb).
Also, there's a reason that the skills that you start out with are Warp and Singularity. These are your bread and butter, Throw is no longer the powerhouse that it once was, and it is a change for the better.
If people are really interested in seeing the strength of shields and armor decreased on Insanity/Hardcore then I can do that by lowering the ratios that enemy shields are increased by. If someone uploads their unmodded Coalesced.ini file and then sends me the link then I can do that. Just give me the percent you want the shields to be reduced by and I can make it happen.
Be warned though, this will fundamentally change your gameplay, and make sure to backup your original in case you decide to revert. Also, this will affect every single game on that difficulty level, not just your Adept's. Additionally, I am in no way responsible for any permanent damage done to your game. I just know a little bit about changing .ini files to get desired results, that's all.
#291
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:39
Modifié par newcomplex, 28 janvier 2010 - 07:40 .
#292
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:51
newcomplex wrote...
It actually isn't useless. Enemys without sheild can take cover, or move behind something, and take several seconds to die. A quick pull or throw instantly kills them. I do agree however, this makes AOE powers almost useless, singularity especially.
People are complaining because they can't just run into a fight and fling enemies willy nilly. Those days are over. If you can manage to de-shield a few enemies, they are completely at your mercy. Biotics have more control over motion than any power or weapon in this game.
People are power hungry and just want that all the time. Biotics are better for taking out shields than ammo and have better CC and tactical application than ammo when it comes to health, and are even with tech abilities when it comes to getting rid of protection and cause more damage than tech to health. How is that not balanced? Biotics are still superior, IMO.
Shockwave does damage to shielded foes and make them recoil (which is an invaluable quality on Insanity) and Warp is pretty much the best skill in the game.
And what the hell does the books have anything to do with it? In the Halo books, Spartans could run 60 mph, but that isn't replicated in the gameplay. Same deal here. Books are books because of what the can do to the reader's imagination. If Bioware put in something similar, the game would be too easy. If you have the PC version, fiddle with the properties files and have biotics affect everyone and everything, regadless of protection, and watch how Insanity becomes an absolute cakewalk.
Biotics have been nerfed, but for balancing purposes, it was the right choice. It's ironic how people are claiming it's useless and negatively balanced when it's the absolute opposite. <_<
#293
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:53
MGIII wrote...
newcomplex wrote...
It actually isn't useless. Enemys without sheild can take cover, or move behind something, and take several seconds to die. A quick pull or throw instantly kills them. I do agree however, this makes AOE powers almost useless, singularity especially.
People are complaining because they can't just run into a fight and fling enemies willy nilly. Those days are over. If you can manage to de-shield a few enemies, they are completely at your mercy. Biotics have more control over motion than any power or weapon in this game.
People are power hungry and just want that all the time. Biotics are better for taking out shields than ammo and have better CC and tactical application than ammo when it comes to health, and are even with tech abilities when it comes to getting rid of protection and cause more damage than tech to health. How is that not balanced? Biotics are still superior, IMO.
Shockwave does damage to shielded foes and make them recoil (which is an invaluable quality on Insanity) and Warp is pretty much the best skill in the game.
And what the hell does the books have anything to do with it? In the Halo books, Spartans could run 60 mph, but that isn't replicated in the gameplay. Same deal here. Books are books because of what the can do to the reader's imagination. If Bioware put in something similar, the game would be too easy. If you have the PC version, fiddle with the properties files and have biotics affect everyone and everything, regadless of protection, and watch how Insanity becomes an absolute cakewalk.
Biotics have been nerfed, but for balancing purposes, it was the right choice. It's ironic how people are claiming it's useless and negatively balanced when it's the absolute opposite. <_<
Agree completely. If people want the game to be easy with Biotics they COULD just play on a lower difficulty.
#294
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:55
lantzk wrote...
Ratio wise, Shields:Armor:Health is about the same. They're all modified by the same ratio in the .ini for higher difficulty levels as well. The difference between them being that Shields and Armor are resistant to certain things (Surprise?), like basic bullets, hacking, and certain biotics. So, use the skills that ARE effective against them! Like Armor-Piercing Ammo, Warp, Warp Ammo, Shredder Ammo Overload, Energy Drain, etc...
The reason that a person's health goes down quickly after their shields are down is because, wait, they don't have any shields or amor! And Biotics are still incredibly useful, just in a different fashion. Warp prevents all the regenerating buggers from doing so, Pull/Singularity disables enemies, etc...
Again, the information regarding the ease of eliminating someone after their shields are down with a gun is exaggerated, especially for an Adept. We have low shields, low health and no inherent weapon bonus skills. Taking out an enemy without Shields takes a fair bit of ammo until you get your bonus weapon, and even then Biotics are often more useful.
Biotics have been changed into a far more tactical weapon, hence why they now curve around corners. On a per shot basis, with Biotics on Insanity, you will do more damage and take less damage when compared with most guns (If you use the powers correctly, don't continually Push a shielded enemy obviously). The balance to this is that you have a cooldown, so that you aren't doing damage again and again from around corners. Also, you can no longer take cover, toss a Singularity, disable six enemies, and then toss a warp and end even Insanity battles in under 30 seconds.
I understand the issue that many of you have with the changes, especially if you played ME1, however, simply because your two-shot instakill has been turned into three doesn't mean that all hell has broken lose (Lift+Throw ---> Warp/(Shield Attack)+Pull+Throw). Biotics still have a fair bite, but we can no longer disable entire rooms and then kill them all without thought for tactics. One of the reasons that ME1 combat was largely uninteresting (besides the fun of chucking people like nobody's business) was because 99% of the time it required no tactical thought as a high-level Biotic. Now, you have to think before you run headfirst into a room and start gunning and throwing. Biotics are fine as they are, although I would not be opposed to a slight kinetic effect from Biotics affecting enemies.
When I first started playing I too was upset at how different things were, and how it was no longer possible to do the fun things of ME1. But, I got over it, and I learned to appreciate a lot of the fun things that you can do in ME2 (Pull + Warp = Mobile Bomb).
Also, there's a reason that the skills that you start out with are Warp and Singularity. These are your bread and butter, Throw is no longer the powerhouse that it once was, and it is a change for the better.
If people are really interested in seeing the strength of shields and armor decreased on Insanity/Hardcore then I can do that by lowering the ratios that enemy shields are increased by. If someone uploads their unmodded Coalesced.ini file and then sends me the link then I can do that. Just give me the percent you want the shields to be reduced by and I can make it happen.
Be warned though, this will fundamentally change your gameplay, and make sure to backup your original in case you decide to revert. Also, this will affect every single game on that difficulty level, not just your Adept's. Additionally, I am in no way responsible for any permanent damage done to your game. I just know a little bit about changing .ini files to get desired results, that's all.
Something tells me you haven't played the game and can't aim. Once you get their shields/armor down another warp or 1-2 shots to the head with the heavy pistol kills everything in the game, including bosses. Non-spoiler version if you ever figure out how to get a power that puts a DoT on the enemy that does more than 2x the damage that warp does you will realize that it usually kills enemies before you can even use powers on them.
Just about the only thing I've found singularity, pull, shockwave, and warp worth using for is mass husks when you use your heavy pistol to shoot each of them once to remove their armor. This only saves ammo though because you can just shoot them twice to kill them.
#295
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 07:56
MGIII wrote...
newcomplex wrote...
It actually isn't useless. Enemys without sheild can take cover, or move behind something, and take several seconds to die. A quick pull or throw instantly kills them. I do agree however, this makes AOE powers almost useless, singularity especially.
People are complaining because they can't just run into a fight and fling enemies willy nilly. Those days are over. If you can manage to de-shield a few enemies, they are completely at your mercy. Biotics have more control over motion than any power or weapon in this game.
People are power hungry and just want that all the time. Biotics are better for taking out shields than ammo and have better CC and tactical application than ammo when it comes to health, and are even with tech abilities when it comes to getting rid of protection and cause more damage than tech to health. How is that not balanced? Biotics are still superior, IMO.
Shockwave does damage to shielded foes and make them recoil (which is an invaluable quality on Insanity) and Warp is pretty much the best skill in the game.
And what the hell does the books have anything to do with it? In the Halo books, Spartans could run 60 mph, but that isn't replicated in the gameplay. Same deal here. Books are books because of what the can do to the reader's imagination. If Bioware put in something similar, the game would be too easy. If you have the PC version, fiddle with the properties files and have biotics affect everyone and everything, regadless of protection, and watch how Insanity becomes an absolute cakewalk.
Biotics have been nerfed, but for balancing purposes, it was the right choice. It's ironic how people are claiming it's useless and negatively balanced when it's the absolute opposite. <_<
Warp is useless once you unlock the DoT that does twice the damage as warp.
#296
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 08:00
Blue_dodo wrote...
Catlana wrote...
Camachox88 wrote...
The only biotic power I use is my vangaurds charge.Bow before the charge followed by the point blank shotgun blast.
I keep knocking enemies off into never, never land that makes all kinds of issues. Mostly doors will not open up because not all enemies are "dead", so I have to reload. Also, Vanguards getting lift instead of barrier is pretty stupid.
do to this being a general discussion board and not game play I am going to keep this spoiler very very vague
a certian teammate has barrier once you make the team mate loyal you can then use it on all charicters (even new ones)
hopfully that helps
I appreciate the tip. I got so frustrated with the new kamekazi Vanguard play style that I reimported my Mass Effect game and switched to Sentinel. I am much, much happier with the Sentinel. I have encountered a lot less problems on this play through.
#297
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 08:07
I really thought I'd read the first page and it would end with a "level up, noob" post.
Adepts can be tough early on, just like in ME1. Stick to singularity and warp. Make sure you partner with thane or Miranda cause Warp+ singualrity rocks. ME1 adepts starting from level 1 on insanity was ridiculously hard early on. Nothing has really changed in that regard.
I think vanguards have it even worse than adepts in ME2 early on, on the harder difficulties.
I just completed the game on insanity with an adept BTW.
#298
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 08:08
vhatever wrote...
Wow, this is 12 pages?
I really thought I'd read the first page and it would end with a "level up, noob" post.
Adepts can be tough early on, just like in ME1. Stick to singularity and warp. Make sure you partner with thane or Miranda cause Warp+ singualrity rocks. ME1 adepts starting from level 1 on insanity was ridiculously hard early on. Nothing has really changed in that regard.
I think vanguards have it even worse than adepts in ME2 early on, on the harder difficulties.
I just completed the game on insanity with an adept BTW.
Cool story bro, too bad singularity is terribad and you don't know what you're talking about.
#299
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 08:10
Hoffburger wrote...
MGIII wrote...
newcomplex wrote...
It actually isn't useless. Enemys without sheild can take cover, or move behind something, and take several seconds to die. A quick pull or throw instantly kills them. I do agree however, this makes AOE powers almost useless, singularity especially.
People are complaining because they can't just run into a fight and fling enemies willy nilly. Those days are over. If you can manage to de-shield a few enemies, they are completely at your mercy. Biotics have more control over motion than any power or weapon in this game.
People are power hungry and just want that all the time. Biotics are better for taking out shields than ammo and have better CC and tactical application than ammo when it comes to health, and are even with tech abilities when it comes to getting rid of protection and cause more damage than tech to health. How is that not balanced? Biotics are still superior, IMO.
Shockwave does damage to shielded foes and make them recoil (which is an invaluable quality on Insanity) and Warp is pretty much the best skill in the game.
And what the hell does the books have anything to do with it? In the Halo books, Spartans could run 60 mph, but that isn't replicated in the gameplay. Same deal here. Books are books because of what the can do to the reader's imagination. If Bioware put in something similar, the game would be too easy. If you have the PC version, fiddle with the properties files and have biotics affect everyone and everything, regadless of protection, and watch how Insanity becomes an absolute cakewalk.
Biotics have been nerfed, but for balancing purposes, it was the right choice. It's ironic how people are claiming it's useless and negatively balanced when it's the absolute opposite. <_<
Warp is useless once you unlock the DoT that does twice the damage as warp.
Heavy Warp has the highest single output of damage in the game. It is only outclassed by Heavy Incinerate in total damage, but that takes three full seconds to only do ten more point of damage.
Source: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Powers
Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:11 .
#300
Posté 28 janvier 2010 - 08:18
Hoffburger wrote...
lantzk wrote...
Ratio wise, Shields:Armor:Health is about the same. They're all modified by the same ratio in the .ini for higher difficulty levels as well. The difference between them being that Shields and Armor are resistant to certain things (Surprise?), like basic bullets, hacking, and certain biotics. So, use the skills that ARE effective against them! Like Armor-Piercing Ammo, Warp, Warp Ammo, Shredder Ammo Overload, Energy Drain, etc...
The reason that a person's health goes down quickly after their shields are down is because, wait, they don't have any shields or amor! And Biotics are still incredibly useful, just in a different fashion. Warp prevents all the regenerating buggers from doing so, Pull/Singularity disables enemies, etc...
Again, the information regarding the ease of eliminating someone after their shields are down with a gun is exaggerated, especially for an Adept. We have low shields, low health and no inherent weapon bonus skills. Taking out an enemy without Shields takes a fair bit of ammo until you get your bonus weapon, and even then Biotics are often more useful.
Biotics have been changed into a far more tactical weapon, hence why they now curve around corners. On a per shot basis, with Biotics on Insanity, you will do more damage and take less damage when compared with most guns (If you use the powers correctly, don't continually Push a shielded enemy obviously). The balance to this is that you have a cooldown, so that you aren't doing damage again and again from around corners. Also, you can no longer take cover, toss a Singularity, disable six enemies, and then toss a warp and end even Insanity battles in under 30 seconds.
I understand the issue that many of you have with the changes, especially if you played ME1, however, simply because your two-shot instakill has been turned into three doesn't mean that all hell has broken lose (Lift+Throw ---> Warp/(Shield Attack)+Pull+Throw). Biotics still have a fair bite, but we can no longer disable entire rooms and then kill them all without thought for tactics. One of the reasons that ME1 combat was largely uninteresting (besides the fun of chucking people like nobody's business) was because 99% of the time it required no tactical thought as a high-level Biotic. Now, you have to think before you run headfirst into a room and start gunning and throwing. Biotics are fine as they are, although I would not be opposed to a slight kinetic effect from Biotics affecting enemies.
When I first started playing I too was upset at how different things were, and how it was no longer possible to do the fun things of ME1. But, I got over it, and I learned to appreciate a lot of the fun things that you can do in ME2 (Pull + Warp = Mobile Bomb).
Also, there's a reason that the skills that you start out with are Warp and Singularity. These are your bread and butter, Throw is no longer the powerhouse that it once was, and it is a change for the better.
If people are really interested in seeing the strength of shields and armor decreased on Insanity/Hardcore then I can do that by lowering the ratios that enemy shields are increased by. If someone uploads their unmodded Coalesced.ini file and then sends me the link then I can do that. Just give me the percent you want the shields to be reduced by and I can make it happen.
Be warned though, this will fundamentally change your gameplay, and make sure to backup your original in case you decide to revert. Also, this will affect every single game on that difficulty level, not just your Adept's. Additionally, I am in no way responsible for any permanent damage done to your game. I just know a little bit about changing .ini files to get desired results, that's all.
Something tells me you haven't played the game and can't aim. Once you get their shields/armor down another warp or 1-2 shots to the head with the heavy pistol kills everything in the game, including bosses. Non-spoiler version if you ever figure out how to get a power that puts a DoT on the enemy that does more than 2x the damage that warp does you will realize that it usually kills enemies before you can even use powers on them.
Just about the only thing I've found singularity, pull, shockwave, and warp worth using for is mass husks when you use your heavy pistol to shoot each of them once to remove their armor. This only saves ammo though because you can just shoot them twice to kill them.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm no Marine Sniper (kudos if you get the reference), and as to the 2X damage Warp (Does it start with an "R" and rhyme with Beave? Hmmm....) it's definitely awesome, but if I'm playing as an Adept I tend to choose a shield damaging power as a bonus power in order to have more versatility. I generally pick Reave if I play as Sentinel, however.
Part of the virtue of Biotics is its ability to curve around corners and always hit. I have a decent headshot rate, but again I'm not great. I'm not trying to insult anyone here, and I would prefer if I would be treated in the same fashion. I tend to have a rather sarcastic demeanor, and that comes off, but I'm not trying to be mean, I just find the game to be eminently playable on Insanity with an Adept.





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