1428 réponses à ce sujet

[Hoffburger]

MGIII wrote...

Heavy Warp has the highest single output of damage in the game. It is only outclassed by Heavy Incinerate in total damage, but that takes three full seconds to only do ten more point of damage.

Source: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Powers

Try doing your research and actually looking at the website you link before blidnly linking it.

They have the same cooldown so I ask you this which is a bigger number 220 or 200? If you answer 200, then yes Warp does more damage per second.

Also when hitting armor and biotic barriers Reave does double damage. So which is bigger 440 or 200?

Now let's assume that Warp does double damage against barriers because it says it works really well on biotic barriers. Which is bigger 440 or 400?

Modifié par Hoffburger, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:19 .

[MGIII]

lantzk wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

lantzk wrote...

Ratio wise, Shields:Armor:Health is about the same. They're all modified by the same ratio in the .ini for higher difficulty levels as well. The difference between them being that Shields and Armor are resistant to certain things (Surprise?), like basic bullets, hacking, and certain biotics. So, use the skills that ARE effective against them! Like Armor-Piercing Ammo, Warp, Warp Ammo, Shredder Ammo Overload, Energy Drain, etc...

The reason that a person's health goes down quickly after their shields are down is because, wait, they don't have any shields or amor! And Biotics are still incredibly useful, just in a different fashion. Warp prevents all the regenerating buggers from doing so, Pull/Singularity disables enemies, etc...

Again, the information regarding the ease of eliminating someone after their shields are down with a gun is exaggerated, especially for an Adept. We have low shields, low health and no inherent weapon bonus skills. Taking out an enemy without Shields takes a fair bit of ammo until you get your bonus weapon, and even then Biotics are often more useful.

Biotics have been changed into a far more tactical weapon, hence why they now curve around corners. On a per shot basis, with Biotics on Insanity, you will do more damage and take less damage when compared with most guns (If you use the powers correctly, don't continually Push a shielded enemy obviously). The balance to this is that you have a cooldown, so that you aren't doing damage again and again from around corners. Also, you can no longer take cover, toss a Singularity, disable six enemies, and then toss a warp and end even Insanity battles in under 30 seconds.

I understand the issue that many of you have with the changes, especially if you played ME1, however, simply because your two-shot instakill has been turned into three doesn't mean that all hell has broken lose (Lift+Throw ---> Warp/(Shield Attack)+Pull+Throw). Biotics still have a fair bite, but we can no longer disable entire rooms and then kill them all without thought for tactics. One of the reasons that ME1 combat was largely uninteresting (besides the fun of chucking people like nobody's business) was because 99% of the time it required no tactical thought as a high-level Biotic. Now, you have to think before you run headfirst into a room and start gunning and throwing. Biotics are fine as they are, although I would not be opposed to a slight kinetic effect from Biotics affecting enemies.

When I first started playing I too was upset at how different things were, and how it was no longer possible to do the fun things of ME1. But, I got over it, and I learned to appreciate a lot of the fun things that you can do in ME2 (Pull + Warp = Mobile Bomb).

Also, there's a reason that the skills that you start out with are Warp and Singularity. These are your bread and butter, Throw is no longer the powerhouse that it once was, and it is a change for the better.

If people are really interested in seeing the strength of shields and armor decreased on Insanity/Hardcore then I can do that by lowering the ratios that enemy shields are increased by. If someone uploads their unmodded Coalesced.ini file and then sends me the link then I can do that. Just give me the percent you want the shields to be reduced by and I can make it happen.

Be warned though, this will fundamentally change your gameplay, and make sure to backup your original in case you decide to revert. Also, this will affect every single game on that difficulty level, not just your Adept's. Additionally, I am in no way responsible for any permanent damage done to your game. I just know a little bit about changing .ini files to get desired results, that's all.

Something tells me you haven't played the game and can't aim. Once you get their shields/armor down another warp or 1-2 shots to the head with the heavy pistol kills everything in the game, including bosses. Non-spoiler version if you ever figure out how to get a power that puts a DoT on the enemy that does more than 2x the damage that warp does you will realize that it usually kills enemies before you can even use powers on them.

Just about the only thing I've found singularity, pull, shockwave, and warp worth using for is mass husks when you use your heavy pistol to shoot each of them once to remove their armor. This only saves ammo though because you can just shoot them twice to kill them.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm no Marine Sniper (kudos if you get the reference), and as to the 2X damage Warp (Does it start with an "R" and rhyme with Beave? Hmmm....) it's definitely awesome, but if I'm playing as an Adept I tend to choose a shield damaging power as a bonus power in order to have more versatility. I generally pick Reave if I play as Sentinel, however.

Part of the virtue of Biotics is its ability to curve around corners and always hit. I have a decent headshot rate, but again I'm not great. I'm not trying to insult anyone here, and I would prefer if I would be treated in the same fashion. I tend to have a rather sarcastic demeanor, and that comes off, but I'm not trying to be mean, I just find the game to be eminently playable on Insanity with an Adept. 

If it is "R----" (seriously, is saying typing it out even a spoiler?) that he's talking about, it's a biotic skill, so his whole point is rendered moot.

[jrw02007]

Hoffburger, whining about singularity being less useful against shielded enemies is like whining about overload being less useful against enemies without shields. Powers like pull and singularity have a defined role in this game - sweeping/finishing injured enemies. If you'd rather have a shield-breaker role on your team, play a solder or a sentinel, who are both oriented towards that. There are several uniquely biotic tricks in this game you can't replicate with a gun - hitting people who are hiding behind cover is pretty huge in a cover shooter.

[vhatever]

Hoffburger wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Wow, this is 12 pages?

I really thought I'd read the first page and it would end with a "level up, noob" post.

Adepts can be tough early on, just like in ME1. Stick to singularity and warp. Make sure you partner with thane or Miranda cause Warp+ singualrity rocks. ME1 adepts starting from level 1 on insanity was ridiculously hard early on. Nothing has really changed in that regard.

I think vanguards have it even worse than adepts in ME2 early on, on the harder difficulties.

I just completed the game on insanity with an adept BTW.

Cool story bro, too bad singularity is terribad and you don't know what you're talking about.

Singularity is terrible for crappy players and/or pre-teens that cry on message boards how badly they suck and its all "the game's" fault, and then 1 day later act like they are an expert at the same game.

Pretty funny, bro. You suck, get over it.

[MGIII]

Hoffburger wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Heavy Warp has the highest single output of damage in the game. It is only outclassed by Heavy Incinerate in total damage, but that takes three full seconds to only do ten more point of damage.

Source: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Powers

Try doing your research and actually looking at the website you link before blidnly linking it.

They have the same cooldown so I ask you this which is a bigger number 220 or 200? If you answer 200, then yes Warp does more damage per second.

Also when hitting armor and biotic barriers Reave does double damage. So which is bigger 440 or 200?

Now let's assume that Warp does double damage against barriers because it says it works really well on biotic barriers. Which is bigger 440 or 400?

Reave is a biotic skill, so I don't see what you're trying to assert with saying it is better than warp.

HI does ten more damage over three more seconds. Also, Warp does more damage to Barrier'd foes, therefore having more utility than HI. 

[Hoffburger]

MGIII wrote...

If it is "R----" (seriously, is saying typing it out even a spoiler?) that he's talking about, it's a biotic skill, so his whole point is rendered moot.

If people didn't fail out of highschool and actually had reading comprehension we wouldn't have pointless arguments like this. For the hundredth time this is about losing what makes an Adept an Adept. Being able to CC enemies and fling them around is what an Adept was advertised as and what an Adept should be. If I wanted to simply spam the same damaging power over and over that doesn't do anything neat and is basically juse a bullet that has a cooldown and can be curved I would play any of the other classes or just shoot the enemy instead.

This is NOT about an Adept having difficulty on Insanity. In fact, Adepts and Sentinels are probably #2 and #1 for completing Insanity due to weapons being more readily available and having the fastest and most damaging powers (without spoilers). Infiltrator/Soldier are tied but could run into Ammo issues and would be forced to use Reave, Incinerate, or Concussive Blast.

[Hoffburger]

vhatever wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Wow, this is 12 pages?

I really thought I'd read the first page and it would end with a "level up, noob" post.

Adepts can be tough early on, just like in ME1. Stick to singularity and warp. Make sure you partner with thane or Miranda cause Warp+ singualrity rocks. ME1 adepts starting from level 1 on insanity was ridiculously hard early on. Nothing has really changed in that regard.

I think vanguards have it even worse than adepts in ME2 early on, on the harder difficulties.

I just completed the game on insanity with an adept BTW.

Cool story bro, too bad singularity is terribad and you don't know what you're talking about.

Singularity is terrible for crappy players and/or pre-teens that cry on message boards how badly they suck and its all "the game's" fault, and then 1 day later act like they are an expert at the same game.

Pretty funny, bro. You suck, get over it.

Hilarious, give me a single situation where Singularity is the optimal power to use and I will paypal you $100. It just doesn't exist.

[MGIII]

Hoffburger wrote...

MGIII wrote...

If it is "R----" (seriously, is saying typing it out even a spoiler?) that he's talking about, it's a biotic skill, so his whole point is rendered moot.

If people didn't fail out of highschool and actually had reading comprehension we wouldn't have pointless arguments like this. For the hundredth time this is about losing what makes an Adept an Adept. Being able to CC enemies and fling them around is what an Adept was advertised as and what an Adept should be. If I wanted to simply spam the same damaging power over and over that doesn't do anything neat and is basically juse a bullet that has a cooldown and can be curved I would play any of the other classes or just shoot the enemy instead.

This is NOT about an Adept having difficulty on Insanity. In fact, Adepts and Sentinels are probably #2 and #1 for completing Insanity due to weapons being more readily available and having the fastest and most damaging powers (without spoilers). Infiltrator/Soldier are tied but could run into Ammo issues and would be forced to use Reave, Incinerate, or Concussive Blast.

Even a rank 3 Warp could take care of most enemies' shields and what not, on top of your teammates' skills. Therefore, getting rid of shields should not be hard. And considering that Biotics can do that job as well as any other class (better in some ways), you calling them "useless" is wrong. Which is all I'm proving.

Perhaps you shouldn't try to change your stance, or your point, to try and fit an arguement. No need for petty insults.

I've repeatedly stated that biotics are now a team player, instead of being the top dawg like they were in ME1. You can still make enemies your playthings with biotics, you just have to work to earn the right to abuse them biotically on Hardcore/Insanity, or you can play on the lower difficulty levels and play god.

Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:35 .

[aksoileau]

It's fine, learn 2 play. Sorry had to.

[Hoffburger]

MGIII wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

MGIII wrote...

If it is "R----" (seriously, is saying typing it out even a spoiler?) that he's talking about, it's a biotic skill, so his whole point is rendered moot.

If people didn't fail out of highschool and actually had reading comprehension we wouldn't have pointless arguments like this. For the hundredth time this is about losing what makes an Adept an Adept. Being able to CC enemies and fling them around is what an Adept was advertised as and what an Adept should be. If I wanted to simply spam the same damaging power over and over that doesn't do anything neat and is basically juse a bullet that has a cooldown and can be curved I would play any of the other classes or just shoot the enemy instead.

This is NOT about an Adept having difficulty on Insanity. In fact, Adepts and Sentinels are probably #2 and #1 for completing Insanity due to weapons being more readily available and having the fastest and most damaging powers (without spoilers). Infiltrator/Soldier are tied but could run into Ammo issues and would be forced to use Reave, Incinerate, or Concussive Blast.

Even a rank 3 Warp could take care of most enemies' shields and what not, on top of your teammates' skills. Therefore, getting rid of shields should not be hard. And considering that Biotics can do that job as well as any other class (better in some ways), you calling them "useless" is wrong. Which is all I'm proving.

Perhaps you shouldn't try to change your stance, or your point, to try and fit an arguement. No need for petty insults.

Humanity is doomed.

[GEWill]

Why is this still being argued?



Obviously some people can play with Biotic users and others can't.



End of story, case closed, move on to a new gripe already.

[Uriel* Sunrise Lord]

Is the game significantly harder on Insanity than hardcore? As in, is the game completely different with different rules and mechanics? If so, discount what I say below, I'll eat my words tonight when I start my new game +.



If it isn't, I am having trouble understanding what the complaints are about. I'm nearing my first playthrough as an Adept. I've only wiped a handful of times, usually because I did something certifiably stupid. My squad doesn't have problems staying alive so long as I keep them in cover. And I've found so much medi-gel in this game, I've never wanted to use Unity and not been able to. I'm not bragging about my elite PvE shooter skills; I'm just saying it is quite possible (and necessary) to keep your squad alive.



Some people are saying that you just can't use certain powers against enemies with shields, this is simply inaccurate. Your abilities might not do much (or any) damage to shields, but abilities aren't "disabled." I've never tried to use warp, for instance, and had Shep just sit there doing nothing. In fact, other than trying to use lift on an enemy with shields, I've never had a power not do any damage to the enemy. Warp does quite a bit of damage to armor and barrier, and singularity does effect enemies with armor with a DoT effect.



The "strategy" of spamming warp is not very effective even on hardcore. As an adept I almost always try to achieve synergistic effects with my own powers or my allies. I use singularity much more often than most people apparently - I'll plant one right beside cover and switch to guns to bring a mob's armor down. They'll get sucked into the singularity, which is a perfect time for a warp. I will admit that against heavily shielded enemies it is tough to get by without Overload, so I always keep someone with overload on my squad.



My guess about the complaints is that people wanted to play more like the Adepts from ME1, where you could just ignore gunplay for the most part and solo the game. I think that the Adept trailer is a bit misleading by indicating you can take enemies down without firing a shot - the game is at its heart a shooter and you will spend a lot of time shooting. But the adept is no glass cannon who must always rely on biotic powers. You have a lot of weapons at your disposal as well, many of which address the deficiencies of the adept's offensive repertoire.



I very, very much enjoyed playing as an adept on hardcore. For my insanity playthrough I was considering switching it up and playing as a Sentinel, but I feel like I'll miss singularity and nemesis. Honestly, I really don't understand Hoffburger's complaints, it is as if he (and some others) are playing an entirely different game than me.



The only design complaint I've seen on these forums that I really agree with is that the vanguard's charge ability has no place on the harder difficulties. Very satisfying on normal and below but underwhelming despite how cool it looks. But really I'm just waiting for some leet vanguard player to post some youtube videos owning insanity and using charge.. Maybe Ms. Norman should do that under a false name, heh.



Oh yeah, and we really need helmet toggling back. That one /must/ have been an oversight. I can't imagine the design decision was made, "Look, I know we had helmet toggling before, but Shep is the kind of guy who would sit at a bar, spill a drink all over his helmet as if he was drinking it, and then still act drunk when he got up. It really takes away from the game to assume he takes off his helmet before talking or drinking."

[MGIII]

Hoffburger wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

MGIII wrote...

If it is "R----" (seriously, is saying typing it out even a spoiler?) that he's talking about, it's a biotic skill, so his whole point is rendered moot.

If people didn't fail out of highschool and actually had reading comprehension we wouldn't have pointless arguments like this. For the hundredth time this is about losing what makes an Adept an Adept. Being able to CC enemies and fling them around is what an Adept was advertised as and what an Adept should be. If I wanted to simply spam the same damaging power over and over that doesn't do anything neat and is basically juse a bullet that has a cooldown and can be curved I would play any of the other classes or just shoot the enemy instead.

This is NOT about an Adept having difficulty on Insanity. In fact, Adepts and Sentinels are probably #2 and #1 for completing Insanity due to weapons being more readily available and having the fastest and most damaging powers (without spoilers). Infiltrator/Soldier are tied but could run into Ammo issues and would be forced to use Reave, Incinerate, or Concussive Blast.

Even a rank 3 Warp could take care of most enemies' shields and what not, on top of your teammates' skills. Therefore, getting rid of shields should not be hard. And considering that Biotics can do that job as well as any other class (better in some ways), you calling them "useless" is wrong. Which is all I'm proving.

Perhaps you shouldn't try to change your stance, or your point, to try and fit an arguement. No need for petty insults.

Humanity is doomed.

Your title (or strongly implies) says biotics are useless. I refuted that.

Your OP went into further details about ow Biotics are useless or outclassed. I refuted that.

If you don't like the roles biotics have now, then that's your problem with the game, not the game's problem. In that case, you shouldn't make threads like these like what you'rer saying is fact.

Also, continue with the silly insults. It makes my nipples hard.  

Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:42 .

[lantzk]

Hoffburger wrote...

MGIII wrote...

If it is "R----" (seriously, is saying typing it out even a spoiler?) that he's talking about, it's a biotic skill, so his whole point is rendered moot.

If people didn't fail out of highschool and actually had reading comprehension we wouldn't have pointless arguments like this. For the hundredth time this is about losing what makes an Adept an Adept. Being able to CC enemies and fling them around is what an Adept was advertised as and what an Adept should be. If I wanted to simply spam the same damaging power over and over that doesn't do anything neat and is basically juse a bullet that has a cooldown and can be curved I would play any of the other classes or just shoot the enemy instead.

This is NOT about an Adept having difficulty on Insanity. In fact, Adepts and Sentinels are probably #2 and #1 for completing Insanity due to weapons being more readily available and having the fastest and most damaging powers (without spoilers). Infiltrator/Soldier are tied but could run into Ammo issues and would be forced to use Reave, Incinerate, or Concussive Blast.

Again, I see no reason to be overly hostile here. We can all have a nice discussion about this without devolving into petty insults in order to further our points. I'm trying to be respectful here, please try and reciprocate.

Now, Adept according to ME2:

[color=rgb(0, 0, 0)">"<span style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255)]The Adept, outfitted with L5x implants, is a biotic specialist, capable of disabling and killing enemies with raw biotic power. With their unique talents, Adepts are the only class able to deploy the Singularity power, a lethal biotic trap capable of snaring multiple enemies. When enemies hide behind cover Adepts are able to Pull them, exposing them for a deadly follow-up attack. Additionally Adepts are able to throw the opposition with their Push ability, making cliffs and ledges lethal opportunities. While they lack advanced combat training, Adepts are the best class at defeating enemies without firing a shot."[/color]

Adept according to ME1: 

"Adepts are biotic specialists. Starting out equipped with pistols and light armor, the true strength of the adept is through the upgradeable implants that give them their biotic powers. These powers can be used to lift or throw objects, shield the party and disable or destroy enemies."

Bioware advertised the capability of Adepts based on the Normal gameplay experience (Difficulty level, not actual normality), and based on the description this is what the class does. The Mass Effect world, codex, fiction, and so on are all based on the normal experience. Once we get into the higher difficulty levels, that experience changes, and so do the gameplay mechanics. The Adept is no longer able to instakill enemies because that wouldn't be difficult enough for the Insanity level of gameplay, it would make the Adept the ideal class for beating the game on that difficulty level. Now, in order to avoid backlash from...everyone who plays other classes, they focused on making the game challenging for the Adept as well. The game that you are playing is the direct result of considerable thought and gameplay testing to make sure that all of the classes are (mostly) balanced for each difficulty level.

Increased health and shields wouldn't mean squat if the Adept could fling them all into the oblivion. So, in order to make it a challenge they added qualifiers to that.

As you have noted, Adepts and Sentinels are some of the best classes for Insanity. And the flavor is still there, it's just muted. And if you think about it, it is for all of the other classes as well at that level. Infiltrators can no longer one shot people into the next galaxy. Soldiers can't burst into a room and single handedly wipe everything out without a sweat (I think....I haven't played as a soldier yet). Engineers can't hack, freeze, and burn their way to the collectors with ease. Sentinels can no longer skip carefree through a battlefield due to their power armor. And Vanguards can't charge into everyone that moves and laugh as they cower before his might.

Insanity changes not only the difficulty but some of the lore as well. Normal difficulty is where you'll find the Adept of your dreams. And believe me, it is as awesome as it was in ME1. When you endeavor to complete Insanity, you unfortunately sacrifice some of what is awesome about the Adept in exchange for the practicality of his powers. His focus becomes less about cool crowd control, and more about effective management of his powers and one or two enemies at a time.

I agree with you that it is disappointing that the original flair of the Adept was not maintained as well in the higher difficulties, and I apologize for not really reading much of the thread and misunderstanding what you were getting at. Part of my confusion was the title, which uses the word "Useless". You probably would've gotten responses more along the lines that you were looking for if you had titled it "Why Are Biotics No Longer Cool/Fun?".

And again, if someone figures out how to maintain the challenge of Insanity and the epic nature of Biotics (Bioware or someone else), that would be awesome. I'm all for that. I just don't have the capability to make it happen.

Modifié par lantzk, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:49 .

[Hoffburger]

Uriel, Sunrise Lord wrote...

Is the game significantly harder on Insanity than hardcore? As in, is the game completely different with different rules and mechanics? If so, discount what I say below, I'll eat my words tonight when I start my new game +.

If it isn't, I am having trouble understanding what the complaints are about. I'm nearing my first playthrough as an Adept. I've only wiped a handful of times, usually because I did something certifiably stupid. My squad doesn't have problems staying alive so long as I keep them in cover. And I've found so much medi-gel in this game, I've never wanted to use Unity and not been able to. I'm not bragging about my elite PvE shooter skills; I'm just saying it is quite possible (and necessary) to keep your squad alive.

Some people are saying that you just can't use certain powers against enemies with shields, this is simply inaccurate. Your abilities might not do much (or any) damage to shields, but abilities aren't "disabled." I've never tried to use warp, for instance, and had Shep just sit there doing nothing. In fact, other than trying to use lift on an enemy with shields, I've never had a power not do any damage to the enemy. Warp does quite a bit of damage to armor and barrier, and singularity does effect enemies with armor with a DoT effect.

The "strategy" of spamming warp is not very effective even on hardcore. As an adept I almost always try to achieve synergistic effects with my own powers or my allies. I use singularity much more often than most people apparently - I'll plant one right beside cover and switch to guns to bring a mob's armor down. They'll get sucked into the singularity, which is a perfect time for a warp. I will admit that against heavily shielded enemies it is tough to get by without Overload, so I always keep someone with overload on my squad.

My guess about the complaints is that people wanted to play more like the Adepts from ME1, where you could just ignore gunplay for the most part and solo the game. I think that the Adept trailer is a bit misleading by indicating you can take enemies down without firing a shot - the game is at its heart a shooter and you will spend a lot of time shooting. But the adept is no glass cannon who must always rely on biotic powers. You have a lot of weapons at your disposal as well, many of which address the deficiencies of the adept's offensive repertoire.

I very, very much enjoyed playing as an adept on hardcore. For my insanity playthrough I was considering switching it up and playing as a Sentinel, but I feel like I'll miss singularity and nemesis. Honestly, I really don't understand Hoffburger's complaints, it is as if he (and some others) are playing an entirely different game than me.

The only design complaint I've seen on these forums that I really agree with is that the vanguard's charge ability has no place on the harder difficulties. Very satisfying on normal and below but underwhelming despite how cool it looks. But really I'm just waiting for some leet vanguard player to post some youtube videos owning insanity and using charge.. Maybe Ms. Norman should do that under a false name, heh.

Oh yeah, and we really need helmet toggling back. That one /must/ have been an oversight. I can't imagine the design decision was made, "Look, I know we had helmet toggling before, but Shep is the kind of guy who would sit at a bar, spill a drink all over his helmet as if he was drinking it, and then still act drunk when he got up. It really takes away from the game to assume he takes off his helmet before talking or drinking."

The time you spent using singularity and then warp could've been better used by just using 2 warps and the enemy would've been dead a lot quicker. Playing the game on harder difficulties means warp, warp, warp, warp, warp, or reave, reave, reave, reave, oh look I can use my powers now, you start to pull or use singularity, oh wait, my squad members already killed them,. Or, oops, I shot him a couple times and it dies before I could play around and feel like an Adept.

MGIII wrote...

Your title (or strongly implies) says
biotics are useless. I refuted that.

Your OP went into further
details about ow Biotics are useless or outclassed. I refuted that.

If
you don't like the roles biotics have now, then that's your problem
with the game, not the game's problem. In that case, you shouldn't make
threads like these like what you'rer saying is fact.

Also,
continue with the silly insults. It makes my nipples hard.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

www.hookedonphonics.com, I clearly stated in the first post of the thread that the problem is that you can't use your abilities that make you an Adept. If people just wanted to spam a damaging ability over and over they wouldn't be playing an Adept.

[lantzk]

GEWill wrote...

Why is this still being argued?

Obviously some people can play with Biotic users and others can't.

End of story, case closed, move on to a new gripe already.

No, he wasn't complaining about the difficulty. He has issue with how the flair or style of the Adept is greatly altered on higher difficulties.

[lantzk]

www.hookedonphonics.com, I clearly stated in the first post of the thread that the problem is that you can't use your abilities that make you an Adept. If people just wanted to spam a damaging ability over and over they wouldn't be playing an Adept.

Again, I understand your frustration, but there's no reason to go all Thomas Nast on us.

[Laughing_Man]

GEWill wrote...

Why is this still being argued?

Obviously some people can play with Biotic users and others can't.

End of story, case closed, move on to a new gripe already.

Sadly, you are probably right.
looks like all the valid points here are going to be lost due to the flame and smoke.

Personaly, what irks me most, is the double-standards in ME2.
in the game "certain biotics" are nerfed to death, and cant be used against shields etc....
while in the the SuZe trailer for example, biotics looks flashy and powerfull as if they are from:
"Star wars: The force unleashed", so apparently its ok to create a misleading advertisement,
deliver something else entirely, and than tell tha gamers that all was done in the name of balance or whatever.

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:55 .

[MGIII]

Hoffburger wrote...

Uriel, Sunrise Lord wrote...

Is the game significantly harder on Insanity than hardcore? As in, is the game completely different with different rules and mechanics? If so, discount what I say below, I'll eat my words tonight when I start my new game +.

If it isn't, I am having trouble understanding what the complaints are about. I'm nearing my first playthrough as an Adept. I've only wiped a handful of times, usually because I did something certifiably stupid. My squad doesn't have problems staying alive so long as I keep them in cover. And I've found so much medi-gel in this game, I've never wanted to use Unity and not been able to. I'm not bragging about my elite PvE shooter skills; I'm just saying it is quite possible (and necessary) to keep your squad alive.

Some people are saying that you just can't use certain powers against enemies with shields, this is simply inaccurate. Your abilities might not do much (or any) damage to shields, but abilities aren't "disabled." I've never tried to use warp, for instance, and had Shep just sit there doing nothing. In fact, other than trying to use lift on an enemy with shields, I've never had a power not do any damage to the enemy. Warp does quite a bit of damage to armor and barrier, and singularity does effect enemies with armor with a DoT effect.

The "strategy" of spamming warp is not very effective even on hardcore. As an adept I almost always try to achieve synergistic effects with my own powers or my allies. I use singularity much more often than most people apparently - I'll plant one right beside cover and switch to guns to bring a mob's armor down. They'll get sucked into the singularity, which is a perfect time for a warp. I will admit that against heavily shielded enemies it is tough to get by without Overload, so I always keep someone with overload on my squad.

My guess about the complaints is that people wanted to play more like the Adepts from ME1, where you could just ignore gunplay for the most part and solo the game. I think that the Adept trailer is a bit misleading by indicating you can take enemies down without firing a shot - the game is at its heart a shooter and you will spend a lot of time shooting. But the adept is no glass cannon who must always rely on biotic powers. You have a lot of weapons at your disposal as well, many of which address the deficiencies of the adept's offensive repertoire.

I very, very much enjoyed playing as an adept on hardcore. For my insanity playthrough I was considering switching it up and playing as a Sentinel, but I feel like I'll miss singularity and nemesis. Honestly, I really don't understand Hoffburger's complaints, it is as if he (and some others) are playing an entirely different game than me.

The only design complaint I've seen on these forums that I really agree with is that the vanguard's charge ability has no place on the harder difficulties. Very satisfying on normal and below but underwhelming despite how cool it looks. But really I'm just waiting for some leet vanguard player to post some youtube videos owning insanity and using charge.. Maybe Ms. Norman should do that under a false name, heh.

Oh yeah, and we really need helmet toggling back. That one /must/ have been an oversight. I can't imagine the design decision was made, "Look, I know we had helmet toggling before, but Shep is the kind of guy who would sit at a bar, spill a drink all over his helmet as if he was drinking it, and then still act drunk when he got up. It really takes away from the game to assume he takes off his helmet before talking or drinking."

The time you spent using singularity and then warp could've been better used by just using 2 warps and the enemy would've been dead a lot quicker. Playing the game on harder difficulties means warp, warp, warp, warp, warp, or reave, reave, reave, reave, oh look I can use my powers now, you start to pull or use singularity, oh wait, my squad members already killed them,. Or, oops, I shot him a couple times and it dies before I could play around and feel like an Adept.

MGIII wrote...

Your title (or strongly implies) says
biotics are useless. I refuted that.

Your OP went into further
details about ow Biotics are useless or outclassed. I refuted that.

If
you don't like the roles biotics have now, then that's your problem
with the game, not the game's problem. In that case, you shouldn't make
threads like these like what you'rer saying is fact.

Also,
continue with the silly insults. It makes my nipples hard.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

www.hookedonphonics.com, I clearly stated in the first post of the thread that the problem is that you can't use your abilities that make you an Adept. If people just wanted to spam a damaging ability over and over they wouldn't be playing an Adept.

And again, I answered that by saying it doesn't take long to get rid of the shields of enemies and make them your biotic plaything.

Anything else? It seems like Normal is the optimal difficulty level for you. There you can be the "ideal Adept" that you think you are and should be in ME2.

Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:55 .

[tetracycloide]

MGIII wrote...
And again, I answered that by saying it doesn't take long to get rid of the shields of enemies and make them your biotic plaything.

Why waste a power cooldown on a foe that's only 1-3 headshots away from death?  I guess if you just want to toy with something and waste time then yeah, awesome, you can do that.  Not really combat effective though.

[jrw02007]

For the hundredth time this is about losing what makes an Adept an Adept. Being able to CC enemies and fling them around is what an Adept was advertised as and what an Adept should be.

Okay, let's talk about CC. The combat part of this game is way closer to Gears of War than it is to Dragon Age: Origins. [nerd] CC is intended for games where things like DPS are an issue - in which case, you're locking down part of the enemy Mob's DPS. ME2 is a shooter - it's not about DPS, it's about cover, flanking, and healing. In a shooter, locking someone down has much less of a point - hence the lack of a "paralysis gun" in Halo, TF2, Half-Life, ect. It's not that no one is creative enough to try it, it's that taking someone out of the fight - but not killing them - doesn't fit in the whole shooter idiom. The Adept has abilities that are better suited to a shooter - curving powers, AOEs, finishers, and so on. [/nerd]

That's my two cents, at least.

[rumination888]

Warp is indeed the best Biotic power.
The Sentinel and Adept have Warp. Theres no contest that the Sentinel is better than the Adept. Tech Armor for defense, Overload for shields and synthetics, Cryo Blast/Throw for unprotected enemies, and Warp against armor/barriers. When a biotic class doesn't have Warp(ie. Vanguard), you can see how bad the class is.

The main problem with Biotics is they all share a global cooldown. The problem doesn't exist for Sentinels because their abilities dont really overlap with each other. Sentinels can use the most optimal ability for the right situation.
If Singularity were off the global cooldown, I think that would make the Adept much better.

[MGIII]

tetracycloide wrote...

MGIII wrote...
And again, I answered that by saying it doesn't take long to get rid of the shields of enemies and make them your biotic plaything.

Why waste a power cooldown on a foe that's only 1-3 headshots away from death?  I guess if you just want to toy with something and waste time then yeah, awesome, you can do that.  Not really combat effective though.

Well, you obviously have ammo than can go around or through corners to get at enemies that have taken defensive positions, as well as attacking multiple foes with one or a couple shots. Cool ****, man.

[IndianKJBlue]

ME1, you could get away with anything. Even on "Insanity" mode.
Now you have to have balance on your team. The "lack" of skills per character means you need to find the right combo of shield/armor damage and crowd-control from what you have in your teammates - who have a pretty large variety of skills amongst them. No character can play God-mode like an Adept could from ME1.

I think the ironic thing about this game is people are trying to rampage through it like they're an Adept in ME1, and they can't, so they call the game "dumbed down" and the like - even though there is obviously a lot more going on in this game than the first one. It's kind of funny. They game may require you to play it more like a shooter, but it's also requiring more thought. Insanity mode now actually means something since you can't just spam your favorite talents.

[Thozi]

WrexKroganKing wrote...

So guys, should I continue my level 60 Adept into ME2 or just change to Soldier? I plan to play on Veteran for my first playthrough and from the sounds of it there's no point =/

At "Veteran" level biotics are still very usefull.