Aller au contenu

Photo

Why were biotics made useless in ME2?


1428 réponses à ce sujet

#626
Spaceweed10

Spaceweed10
  • Members
  • 498 messages

Switch296 wrote...

All we ask is bioware change "false" to "true" and update the game so we can be biotic users on hardcore/insane.

It is NOT possible for a adept to complete the game on insanity at the moment, vanguard can but it will be near-impossible. All we ask is for you to fix this bioware.

It takes about 6 keystrokes to change the file, then you just have to put it in the next update. Do it for your fans, yeah you remember, your fans. Or have you forgot what they are since EA put you on a leash?


L2P, noob.

#627
Switch296

Switch296
  • Members
  • 133 messages

Spaceweed10 wrote...

Switch296 wrote...

All we ask is bioware change "false" to "true" and update the game so we can be biotic users on hardcore/insane.

It is NOT possible for a adept to complete the game on insanity at the moment, vanguard can but it will be near-impossible. All we ask is for you to fix this bioware.

It takes about 6 keystrokes to change the file, then you just have to put it in the next update. Do it for your fans, yeah you remember, your fans. Or have you forgot what they are since EA put you on a leash?


L2P, noob.


Shoo kidiot. Pokemon forums are that way -->

#628
Peer of the Empire

Peer of the Empire
  • Members
  • 2 044 messages
Edited

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 31 janvier 2010 - 12:59 .


#629
Peer of the Empire

Peer of the Empire
  • Members
  • 2 044 messages

Graunt wrote...

jivebeaver wrote...

heres a simple fix:

for people who are on PC and don't give a ****

use your favorite Coalesced.ini editor and find

UseSharedPowerCooldown=TRUE
bShieldsBlockPowers=true

and set these both to false

instant physics biotic effectiveness on Insanity


How do you even get this to work without screwing up the game so that it will no longer get past the launcher screen?  I had to reinstall the game because using wordpad to open that file up and make changes screws it up.  Even setting it back to the default "TRUE" doesn't seem to revert whatever the problem was.

Use notepad for editing anything of this sort.  Instead of editing coalesce.ini directly however, see this thread:
http://social.biowar...06/index/834703

#630
Graunt

Graunt
  • Members
  • 1 444 messages

LucidStrike wrote...

My Adept felt underpowered, until I evolved into a Nemesis. I made Harbinger seem inept with the number of Warps I could toss in about 10-15 seconds to decimate it.

That said, Reave was awesome but was usually ineffective, as was SIngularity. I guess it was the barriers, but that emssed up the secondary Warp effect. I would rather toss something other thn Warp first and blow it up with Warp, not have to use Warp just to mke the other effective. Of course, this also became less of a problem as a Nemesis.

Evole into Nemesis. Takes Biotics to a whole 'nother level.

:bandit:


Are you talking about NORMAL difficulty?  Sure sounds like it.  Anyway, here's a PC fix for biotics.  And this will allow you to use something other than Warp first and then use Warp to do explosive damage.

http://social.biowar...03/index/868508

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/106/index/834703


Just saw that, not sure if it will get the same results right away just yet though.

Modifié par Graunt, 31 janvier 2010 - 01:43 .


#631
Adamzen

Adamzen
  • Members
  • 74 messages
Well i like the way biotics are implemented in the second mass effect.

In ME1 Adepts were way to powerful and there was not much of a strategy nor a well balanced team needed to bash trough the harder difficulty settings. One Man Army Style...



Now you have to take a different approach to be successful and rely more then once on the skills your other group members have to offer. (Given you are playing on insane. On Normal Adepts are still more then "fine")



What is true on the other hand is that the shared cd hurts the Adept class the most.

IMO Adepts are still fun to play. Not because u can "sleepwalk" trough the game like before but because of the challenges they provide.

This time you rly have to use your mind with Adepts :)


#632
lost lupus

lost lupus
  • Members
  • 233 messages
so after reading this thread all the way through ive found that my game (on 360) must be broken

even on casual if an enemy has
health bar - all abilty's can be cast
armour - only warp and singularity* can be cast (*merely holds them in place like stasis)
shields - only singularity can be cast (*merely holds them in place like stasis)

what MY cripe is ...... is that for most of the game
i can not use my powers i choose an adept to use the powers
for the most part im ONLY USING WARP to do damage and singularity to hold them still
boss are not affected at all by botics warp does a little singularity doesnt even hold them still

now when i can (for instantance getting the drell or geth teammate)
im like a one man army so they didnt balance the powers
at all they disabled them

that is the cripe now people have said in their games botics work on enemys with armour when played in normal

great i'd be happy with that but when i load ME2 on normal or casual it doesnt let me cast anything other then warp or signularity if an enemy has armour
could a BIOWARE employee please confirm if these people are talking rubbish or that indeed
my game is broken so i can get a new one?

i dont expect anybody to understand 25 pages and they still think its about what level you play on
i dont care about the AMOUNT of damage my powers do i want to USE my powers

Modifié par lost lupus, 31 janvier 2010 - 02:04 .


#633
Elanareon

Elanareon
  • Members
  • 980 messages
Global cooldown is lame... Even with other classes. Wanted to make an fps? Why make abilities at all? Although some people seem to enjoy waiting for skills to be used again. And their cooldowns finish at the same time!!!!



Note this is not about spamming this is about heing idle for a time before doing anything! At least have the non used skills refresh faster???



And the shield thing is lame as well. I'd understand a biotic barrier stopping biotic skills but armor? Heh DAMN! Lol



game is fun though because of the story and all. Just some lame gameplay designs.

#634
Kanye150

Kanye150
  • Members
  • 36 messages
i played around 30 hours. I don't think biotics are useless, just read this
"health bar - all abilty's can be cast
armour - only warp and singularity* can be cast (*merely holds them in place like stasis)
shields - only singularity can be cast (*merely holds them in place like stasis)"

And it looks rational for me the cooldown system, before u could launch 20 powers in 5 secs.

Modifié par Kanye150, 31 janvier 2010 - 02:29 .


#635
tonnactus

tonnactus
  • Members
  • 6 165 messages
Energy drain as a bonus talent is a really good solution.So a shielded enemy come,just strip his shield and then play with him just like in old times.For other enemies warp is good enough to take down armor/barrier.
Energy drain is also better then overload because it has shorter cooldown.

Modifié par tonnactus, 31 janvier 2010 - 02:30 .


#636
Garsemor

Garsemor
  • Members
  • 3 messages
Warp is the best choice against armored and shielded enemys. It's also good against sinterics and colector health but some enemys like the husks are better delt whit by a throw because it recharges fast and they don't last much. Best advice I can say is not to use throw against sintetics because it almost doesn't effect them. If you want to cause a big boom combine warp thit lift, pull or singularyty for a granade type effect. Also maxing out you're class points helps a lot by reducing the time comsumption.

#637
lost lupus

lost lupus
  • Members
  • 233 messages

Kanye150 wrote...

i played around 30 hours. I don't think biotics are useless, just read this
"health bar - all abilty's can be cast
armour - only warp and singularity* can be cast (*merely holds them in place like stasis)
shields - only singularity can be cast (*merely holds them in place like stasis)"

And it looks rational for me the cooldown system, before u could launch 20 powers in 5 secs.


i dont have a problem with the cool down system at all
my problem is ONLY the disabling of powers if somebody has armour or sheilds
mainly because a biotic is crowd control i dont give a damn if they dont do ANY DAMAGE
but atleast allow me to use singularity to pick up armoured enemys
atleast allow me to use push to knock them down

thinning then herd is what biotics should be not
oh crap he has a shield time to hide till miranda does her thing
(and god damn she does it well) the point is when it happens I feel useless this never happended in ME1

adepts got screwed they went a catered for the RPG HaXOR11 types that like a slow and mundane game the sort that love hours of *mining* just look at the planet searching rubbish

they figured *casual* gamers would want a shooter and so catered for them
they figured HARDCORE RPG types (the sort that complained biotics were overpowered in ME1)
would play as biotics and so made it like a boring MMORPG 
thus making the class inaccesable to everyone else

kind of ironic considering the shooter crowd dont care as they just shoot everything and the RPG crowd mirco manage every god damn thing and the people middle of the roaders who made ME1 sell loads of copies because it was accesable to everyone now feel that the best class has become the worst class

those mid of the road gamers that play for  "FUN" not to be AwEsOm3!!!! got screwed im lucky that i like shooters myself so i'll just play a soldier of infiltratior but you can not deny that adepts are buggerd

Modifié par lost lupus, 31 janvier 2010 - 03:21 .


#638
Graunt

Graunt
  • Members
  • 1 444 messages

lost lupus wrote...

Kanye150 wrote...

i played around 30 hours. I don't think biotics are useless, just read this
"health bar - all abilty's can be cast
armour - only warp and singularity* can be cast (*merely holds them in place like stasis)
shields - only singularity can be cast (*merely holds them in place like stasis)"

And it looks rational for me the cooldown system, before u could launch 20 powers in 5 secs.


i dont have a problem with the cool down system at all
my problem is ONLY the disabling of powers if somebody has armour or sheilds
mainly because a biotic is crowd control i dont give a damn if they dont do ANY DAMAGE
but atleast allow me to use singularity to pick up armoured enemys
atleast allow me to use push to knock them down

thinning then herd is what biotics should be not
oh crap he has a shield time to hide till miranda does her thing
(and god damn she does it well) the point is when it happens I feel useless this never happended in ME1

adepts got screwed they went a catered for the RPG HaXOR11 types that like a slow and mundane game the sort that love hours of *mining* just look at the planet searching rubbish

they figured *casual* gamers would want a shooter and so catered for them
they figured HARDCORE RPG types (the sort that complained biotics were overpowered in ME1)
would play as biotics and so made it like a boring MMORPG 
thus making the class inaccesable to everyone else

kind of ironic considering the shooter crowd dont care as they just shoot everything and the RPG crowd mirco manage every god damn thing and the people middle of the roaders who made ME1 sell loads of copies because it was accesable to everyone now feel that the best class has become the worst class

those mid of the road gamers that play for  "FUN" not to be AwEsOm3!!!! got screwed im lucky that i like shooters myself so i'll just play a soldier of infiltratior but you can not deny that adepts are buggerd


If you're playing on the PC, the INI tweak is a simple fix to all your biotic woes.  For anyone playing on the 360 though, I can sympathize.  And there's really no reason to feel like it's "cheating" when it should be the default setting anyway.

Modifié par Graunt, 31 janvier 2010 - 03:42 .


#639
lost lupus

lost lupus
  • Members
  • 233 messages
finally some commen ground

i agree with you im not an elitest if 360 had the option to do that i would be there as it is i have 360

so its screwed.......... funny seeing most casual gamers have consoles and more hardcore gamers have 1000 PC's to run the latest games

#640
Elanareon

Elanareon
  • Members
  • 980 messages
It is easy to play biotic sure. I mean its basically the electric, fire, normal ammos for different shields. Its like rock paper scissors! But it is still gimped!

#641
Endurance_117

Endurance_117
  • Members
  • 626 messages

Graunt wrote...

jivebeaver wrote...

heres a simple fix:

for people who are on PC and don't give a ****

use your favorite Coalesced.ini editor and find

UseSharedPowerCooldown=TRUE
bShieldsBlockPowers=true

and set these both to false

instant physics biotic effectiveness on Insanity


How do you even get this to work without screwing up the game so that it will no longer get past the launcher screen?  I had to reinstall the game because using wordpad to open that file up and make changes screws it up.  Even setting it back to the default "TRUE" doesn't seem to revert whatever the problem was.

^Beat the game on insanity with Adept and Infiltrator and almost with the Sentinel


Sure you did.


Are you mad that I did? Just because you suck at playing this game doesn't mean I do. lol For having to modify a game to make it easier for you. Just play on normal.

Modifié par Endurance_117, 31 janvier 2010 - 05:29 .


#642
Serenum

Serenum
  • Members
  • 42 messages
Some observations:



- There is no more crowd control for an adept -- with global cooldowns and resistances an Adept cannot control a battlefield vis a vis ME1, even with a maxed Wide Singularity as well as a Pull Field you still are at the mercy of enemies without any resistances for it to work plus the area of effect has been reduced to such an extent that unless you are fighting in a closed space your biotic power will be holding a few enemies at the most.



- Difficulty doesn't solve anything, biotics still doesn't work in enemies with resistance, please stop with the "Normal solves your problem" argument, that is extremely silly, if someone wants to add up the difficulty and play in Insanity that's great and he should be able to do so without having the game revert to a cheap tactic of making enemies immune to a certain class altogether (with exception of Warp of course)



- The ratio of Health/Armor/Shield-Barrier is unbalanced. The main argument here is that once you get to an enemies Health bar it is simply easier to shoot him rather than using a biotic power. This is a fact of the game. Even with maxed out biotic powers it is still faster to use a gun to take the enemy down, try it out yourself and you will see. Just for kicks here's an example using the killer combo Pull+Throw: Enemy has no resistances -- Adept uses Pull -- Waits cooldown -- Squadmate kills the enemy with shots or the Adept while waiting just shoot the enemy himself and kills him. Why wait for the cooldown when you can kill him with a couple of shots?



- The Adept is supposed to excel at crowd control, and its the ultimate Irony that even in its class video Christina says that he can control the battlefield and kill enemies without firing a single shot. Is it untrue? No but extremely misleading and a not really a fun gameplay since using one skill for impact - Warp - makes the Adept feel like a substandard class and one who can't really exercise the crowd control capabilities that you would expect even moreso had you played ME1.



I still enjoy the class somewhat, it was my favorite in ME1 and I absolutely loved playing the Adept, some skills were overpowered but that could be said of any class in the game once you hit level 60 and in the end this is a single player game where you are expected to be powerful by the end of it, the concept of overpowered is not really applicable as long as over classes have a fun gameplay option as well.



Unfortunately in ME2 my Adept feels very limited and not really fun to play. Biotics have some really interesting effects now such as rounding around corners but with the addition of resistances it became extremely annoying to use them.



I am not advocating for a removal, far from it, what I am advocating for is an improved and fun gameplay for the Adept. Unfortunately spamming Warp gets old very fast, the new global cooldown mechanics present some amazing opportunities to make the game very challenging and tactical for the Adept but in all honesty I think it fails to deliver.



One way to solve or at the very least mitigate the problem would be to change the ratio of Health/Armor/Shield-Barrier on the enemies. Just increase the Health more on the enemies, hell, I even recommend making it very large to have an overall more fun gameplay to any class. Keep Shields and Barriers or even increase them to have more enemies wear those and differ in how some enemies (sub bosses, elites) have even more of spread but give the option of exercising the gameplay that a class is supposed to.



This is why it is surprising to me that this wasn't adjusted in the game, a simple fix of increasing the health of an enemy makes brings benefits in terms of gameplay to any class. It's a win-win scenario.

#643
Malcroix

Malcroix
  • Members
  • 360 messages
I have a lot of gripes with ME2, and will gear up for a bit rant sometime soon. However, in this particular thread, I want to defend biotics and the Adept a little bit.

Of course, biotics are not as powerful now as they were in ME1. They are not an Answer to All Questions - merely one of the available tools. But, they still provide for a unique and enjoyable playstyle.

First, there's Warp. Awesome power, and straight away it sets the Adept apart from everyone else. Even though some squadmates also have Warp, theirs has a 12 second cooldown, as opposed to the Adept's 6 seconds; plus, Biotic Mastery reduces cooldowns by another 20%. The Adept can spam 2-3 Warps in the time a squadmate casts one. Compared to gunfire, Warp is fast to shoot off, self-guided, and can reach behind cover - minimising your exposure to enemy fire and reaching hidden enemies.

OFC, spamming Warp can get tedious; but so is spamming powers of other classes.

But, we all know Warp is cool; so let's get to the other powers.

Here's a list of situations I found biotics other than Warp to be useful in:

1. Singularity/Wide Singularity: With a 4,5 sec. cooldown, and stopping power affecting even shielded enemies so that they can't advance on your position, it's an excellent opener. While the enemies are pinned down, drop their shields/armor with Warp and gunfire. Plus, Warp Explosion is great. And, of course, Singularity is priceless when faced with a crowd of health-only mooks - allows to take care of the trash quickly & efficiently in order to focus on the big boys.

2. Throw/Throw field: 3 words: THREE SECOND COOLDOWN. With -20% Mastery and -20% upgrade, this gets down to 2 seconds. Perfect when you're being rushed by a crowd of Husks, Varren, & various other low-level mooks with no defenses but big numbers. Or, when you've just gotten that Krogan down to his health, but he's already charging, and there's no way you're gonna kill him with one Warp or a burst from the SMG. Don't know about you, but stuff like that happened to me pretty often during my Adept playthrough. Throw, SMG burst for 2 seconds, and Warp = 1 dead Krogan or Geth Hunter instead of 1 dead Shepard.

3. Domination/Heavy Domination:
On higher levels, it cools off faster than the Domination effect runs out, so you or Morinth will always have a slave to soak up enemy fire. Just as importantly, it makes the enemies switch their tactics to focus on the new, closer foe - which more often than not makes them change cover, exposing themselves to your squad's fire. It's more tactical than most other powers, but I think it rocks: there are plenty of Domination-worthy powerful organic enemies (although it still doesn't compare to hacking a YMIR).

4. Pull/Pull Field, Shockwave - didn't use them myself, but they were somewhat decent on SuZe with her +20% biotic damage. Since I didn't use Suze all that much anyway, can't comment a lot here; Reave - killed Samara so don't know.

So, Biotics are not just cool finishing moves IMO. They range from awesome (Warp) to very useful CC (Singularity) to situational CC/panic button (Throw) to very original and tactical (Domination). And, of course, there are "meh" powers - but you won't have enough points to max them anyway, so why even talk about them.

Now to speak about the Adept as a whole. I, for one, was surprised at how this class played out, and not altogether unpleasantly. ME1 Adept was the quintessential D&D Wizard - weak defense (light armor only), intended-as-weak offense (the pistol power was broken, but that's a balance issue), but awesome offensive & defensive "spells" that could be unleashed in quick succession, followed by a long period of cooldown. Personally, although I adore the D&D Wizards, I prefer to play casters who are also warriors. Something about "squishiness" does not exactly appeal to me. I preferred the Vanguard over the Adept in ME1, but it feld kinda broken (Adrenaline Rush being so much better than all of the Adept's bonuses). In this respect, ME2 Adept's ability to wear cool heavy armor and wield weapons such as the Tempest SMG, Sniper or the AR, while at the same time being very biotic focused, was very welcome in my book.

Once you come to terms with the necessity to use your gun and to play much more tactically than ME1 ever demanded, ME2 becomes quite entertaining for an Adept. I used Warp Ammo as a bonus power, so as not to overstrain my cooldowns, and found Heavy Warp + Wide Singularity + Nemesis + Sniper to be an excellent build with varied powers suitable for different situations. I started to play on Veteran and then switched to Hardcore, and it was fun through and through. Having a good mouse with lots of assignable buttons helps a lot to use powers quickly and efficiently.

But, OFC, I would prefer biotics to be useful more often/in more ways. From the lore perspective, the "mass effect" nature of biotics ought to affect targets regardless of shields/armor. Here's how I think it should have been made:

1. Shields not affected by biotics at all, but not stopping biotics from affecting target (maybe with a reduced effectiveness);

2. Armor makes targets more resistant to biotics - i.e. target is considered "heavier" when pulled/thrown/singed (ME1 had a similar thing with one of the exoskeleton armor uprgades), and Warp/Singularity do less damage. This makes sense because the target has much more mass and is much more dense on the outside;

3. Pure health highly affected by biotics - i.e. Heavy Warp killing them outright (completely messes up internal organs), and Throw smashing them so hard they lose consciousness for a time;

4. Barrier having a unique relationship with biotics - can completely stop some powers (pull/throw) but is totally destroyed by Warp (maybe even damaging target).

Sure, it would require some balancing, but overall would make the game much more fun. And it would be even more fun to be able to customise your own armor (and that of your squad) to specifically counter some biotic threats. I.e.: if you know you're going against biotics, putting on more armor at the expense of shields might be a good idea.

But, oh well. Gotta use what we've got.

Going back to the game, now. Have fun.

Modifié par Malcroix, 31 janvier 2010 - 06:08 .


#644
Praemorior

Praemorior
  • Members
  • 3 messages
Hm. At first I thought that adepts suck in ME2, but then I started to like it. It's quite easy to destroy enemy shields/armor/barrier with 1 or 2 warps (the lesser enemies, I'm playing in hardcore difficulty), and then pull them around or use singularity. What's the problem with that? Someone said that enemies have too low health and there is no time to use powers because they die, but I think that the powers have been extremely useful. I haven't yet maxed singularity, but with the rank 2 skill it's been fun sending enemies flying.

#645
Elanareon

Elanareon
  • Members
  • 980 messages
You completely missed the point. Global cd's forces all skills to be available at the same time, because of armor/barrier you are forced to use warp almost all of the time. Since every cooldown is thr same you keep using warp all of the time. Yeah the other abilities are cool but they are almost useless unless you force yourself to use it just for the heck of it.



And as the poster someway above told us, it is hetter to gundown a mob if it has red health further decreasing biotic's usefulness. Well unless you force yourself to use it and wait for the cooldown because, well they are kewl.

#646
SonsofNorthWind

SonsofNorthWind
  • Members
  • 111 messages
As an extra dig to the adept, Sentinel is actually better at using Warp. Power Armor upgrade for Tech Armor makes the Sentinel do more damage per Warp than the Adept, to say nothing of the significant shield increase and an actual noticeable AoE on breakage to boot. You also get overload, which allows your character to damage shields while still keeping your bonus talent slot open (I'm considering putting Reave in there, as with the right biotic upgrades you should be able to Warp your own Reave for extra damage).

If Singularity had a 12 m radius, it might be useful - you'd pretty much grab any enemy as soon as you broke through their defenses, which while not extraordinary on higher difficulties would still be useful.  As it is, though, Adept's unique is terrible in comparison to his nearest competition.  

Modifié par SonsofNorthWind, 31 janvier 2010 - 10:02 .


#647
cavallodispade

cavallodispade
  • Members
  • 64 messages

Spaceweed10 wrote...

Switch296 wrote...

All we ask is bioware change "false" to "true" and update the game so we can be biotic users on hardcore/insane.

It is NOT possible for a adept to complete the game on insanity at the moment, vanguard can but it will be near-impossible. All we ask is for you to fix this bioware.

It takes about 6 keystrokes to change the file, then you just have to put it in the next update. Do it for your fans, yeah you remember, your fans. Or have you forgot what they are since EA put you on a leash?


L2P, noob.

Yeah i kind of agree. im a vanguard and i never really had too much trouble. actually if i had no biotics i would never have been able to get anywhere at all, since for harder enemies that rush you, like geth prime or krogan, the only way i survive them is take armor down and then air juggle them.

#648
OneDrunkMonk

OneDrunkMonk
  • Members
  • 605 messages
OK I just did the mission to pick up Jack (SuZe). On Purgatory when she's let loose she literally tears the ship apart to escape, I'm thinking "Whoa! This gal kicks serious @ss!" Then I have her in my squad and not only does she have less than half of Liara's Biotic abilities, she can't even use them most of the time because of the Biotic nerf. Seriously, the most powerful human Biotic and most of the time she's just an extra shotgun on the battlefield.

#649
Graunt

Graunt
  • Members
  • 1 444 messages

Endurance_117 wrote...
Are you mad that I did? Just because you suck at playing this game doesn't mean I do. lol For having to modify a game to make it easier for you. Just play on normal.


Yeah man, I'm super furious because you beat a game where you don't have to use even a single tech power or biotic to beat on insanity with an Adept.  Too bad you can't see the forest for the trees and don't even understand why people have issues with biotics.  It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to beat the game OR "difficulty", period.  You either didn't play as an Adept, or you've never played the first ME because no one can possibly be that obtuse.

OK I just did the mission to pick up Jack (SuZe). On Purgatory when
she's let loose she literally tears the ship apart to escape, I'm
thinking "Whoa! This gal kicks serious @ss!" Then I have her in my
squad and not only does she have less than half of Liara's Biotic
abilities, she can't even use them most of the time because of the
Biotic nerf. Seriously, the most powerful human Biotic and most of the
time she's just an extra shotgun on the battlefield.


Jack is pretty potent if you just focus on Shockwave with her first.  She's the main character to have around on missions that have swarms and swarms coming at you.  And if you're playing on the PC you can remove the biotic nerf anyway.

Modifié par Graunt, 31 janvier 2010 - 07:12 .


#650
OneDrunkMonk

OneDrunkMonk
  • Members
  • 605 messages
Question, do people have character powers setting to auto or just defense?