1428 réponses à ce sujet

[jmark22]

Malcroix wrote...

TheRedVipress wrote...

Oh, what a relief. 
and here i thought i was the only one who cares about little things like "lore" and "canon".

good to know i'm not the only crazy in town...

It's funny how BioWare screwed up the ubiquitous "mass effect" in the second game. There are 2 areas where players get to actually use the "mass effect" beyond star-travel: guns and biotics. So first they introduce the moronic "thermoclips", destroying the unique "mass effect" accelerator nature of the guns, and then suddenly mass effect fields can't affect shielded or armored objects.

It's like they forgot their own lore / continuity, and decided to make things from scratch, as generic as possible. Not cool.

Oh, the irony!

At least I have the PC version, so I can make biotics effective against shields/armor if I so chose by editing that .ini file.  I really found this to be a minor issue in my first playthrough as a vanguard on veteran, but I can see why adepts are complaining about hardcore/insanity.  I feel sorry for the 360 users who are completely at the mercy of Bioware on this issue - I don't think that it will be changed in a patch on either 360 or PC.

Even though I think biotics shouldn't have been nerfed quite so much - the thermal clips were a bad idea, too - this has been one of the greatest gaming experiences I have ever had.  Great job, Bioware!  (Just please respect your own lore)

Maybe Bioware could make available a biotic amp as free DLC that allows pull/throw to be used against enemies with armor?

[OneDrunkMonk]

I agree that ME2 treatment of Biotics is contradictory to the lore that has previously been presented in the books and in ME1. It doesn't make sense that shields or armor could do anything more than offering a concussive dampener towards Biotics. Too I miss the variety of Biotics found in ME1.

[aswan4]

is it just me or does the global cooldown go faster if you use a skill with a faster recharge time? that's why i try to use the abilities with short cooldowns when i can. i think pull + squad fire works great to finish off enemies and then i get to use my warp a couple seconds earlier on a target that actually has protection left that i would have otherwise been able to do if i finished off the first guy with a warp. at least that's how i thought of it, but maybe i was imagining it, because everybody is saying the global cooldown makes everything else useless.

[AlphaJarmel]

aswan4 wrote...

is it just me or does the global cooldown go faster if you use a skill with a faster recharge time? that's why i try to use the abilities with short cooldowns when i can. i think pull + squad fire works great to finish off enemies and then i get to use my warp a couple seconds earlier on a target that actually has protection left that i would have otherwise been able to do if i finished off the first guy with a warp. at least that's how i thought of it, but maybe i was imagining it, because everybody is saying the global cooldown makes everything else useless.

I think this is almost worthy of facepalm.

[Laughing_Man]

Hmm... kinda ironic.



from lore & canon point of view, global cool-down for biotics makes sense,

because the adept needs to recover from each use of biotics, not from the specific variation

that this power was used for.



but fret not, i'm sure bioware didn't use this system just because the trivial reason

that its more in line with the canon, probably something to do with the God of balance or something...

[ranger614]

Jack > You.

[sinosleep]

SonsofNorthWind wrote...

AOE Damage + AOE Damage also instantly kills groups, the difference is that AOE Damage + AOE Damage works to punch through different defense types while one half of the AOE Damage + AOE Biotic equation is worthless without the other.

CC Biotics have massively weakened AOEs (3 meters!) AND can't penetrate defenses. ME2's answer is not the solution to ME1's problems.

I haven't found the aoe gun powers to be as powerful as the aoe biotic powers.

[Laughing_Man]

by the way, i wonder, why didnt bioware use some kind of mana-biotic pool for the adepts?
it would have made alot of sense imo.

Throw and pull takes some "points" from the pool, while singularity for example, takse alot.

the pool will recharge slowly after each use, in accordance with the concept of "cool-down".

what do you think?

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 01 février 2010 - 03:32 .

[Xivai]

All I know is they really dropped the ball. I don't care if they don't patch it this game. I just want some reassurance they will give the Adept a buff in the sequel.

Even them just admitting they over did it with the nerfs a tad would be an amazing bit of news. They seem reluctant to even post in this thread though. Worse Christina awhile back was making some pretty lame defenses of the class. I don't even see what the problem is in buffing the class slightly. It's a single player game. Make the adept as he was meant to be.

If I had to choose between the crap system in place now, and the old one? I would definitely go to the old one. I want to have fun and use all my cool powers when I want to. I'm only saying this because I have a feeling they won't buff the adept. Here or in the next game.

Edit
Even worse, when we make a Biotic thread to discusss a balanced adept they just chuck it in here. So all the reaonsable people get thrown intot he mass of people just whing about the state of Biotics. It's so infuriating.

Modifié par Xivai, 01 février 2010 - 03:42 .

[aswan4]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

I think this is almost worthy of facepalm.

so is this

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Yea Adepts can screwed pretty badly.

Modifié par aswan4, 01 février 2010 - 04:31 .

[Jarmelopt]

aswan4 wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

I think this is almost worthy of facepalm.

so is this

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Yea Adepts can screwed pretty badly.

You answered your own question.  I don't know how that isn't worthy of facepalm.  If you even read what you typed down earlier than you would see how stupid it is.  And yes the Adepts do get screwed on certain levels later in the game, mainly with the Collectors and Husks.

[sinosleep]

I don't see what's so hard about husks. Again, I played a vanguard not an adept and on hardcore not insanity (although everyone has been saying anything at veteran and higher makes them gimped so hardcore counts being the 2nd hardest difficulty available), but the combo I used for husks would work just as well with an adept since they have access to the 2 powers needed. Samara casts mass reave everything loses armor, I cast shock wave, everything dies. It takes all of 2 second and is quicker and more effective than any of the weapon based combos I tried.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 février 2010 - 05:28 .

[Darth_Shizz]

aswan4 wrote...

is it just me or does the global cooldown go faster if you use a skill with a faster recharge time?  

No, No...you are not imagining this...



But you DO realise that you already seemingly knew the answer, right?

[IndianKJBlue]

Beating Insanity without a good couple of crowd-controlling biotic skills might be impossible. Enemies regenerate health and take cover regularly, and husk charges will kill you if you use weapons alone. You need biotics in this game. They are not useless, they're just not god-like. In ME1, Lift worked on EVERYTHING, and the result was a combat system that felt brokenly easy. Maybe they should have an easy-mode where biotics like Pull and Throw work on anything and everything, but it wouldn't make for a more enjoyable game imo.

[Darth_Shizz]

Playing through my adept on insanity still (run with Garrus/Miranda). From what I've found, Wide Singularity + Nemesis + Heavy Warp are still a pretty great combination, especially considering singularity:

1) Still snares an enemy regardless of shields/armour, which can buy you valuable time.
2) Has a pretty long duration, meaning you can throw one down before even killing shields, and still have it take effect once they're brought down. This + heavy overload + heavy warp = great combo

I've also added Warp Ammo as a bonus skill, on top of running with a certain, high shield/barrier damage AR. Works for me for the most part...I just occasionally struggle with Heavy enemies in confined spaces

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 01 février 2010 - 05:51 .

[Maveick_Vile]

adept is one of the best classes and is very useful on insanity biotics are actually overpowered in me2

[Hoffburger]

IndianKJBlue wrote...

Beating Insanity without a good couple of crowd-controlling biotic skills might be impossible. Enemies regenerate health and take cover regularly, and husk charges will kill you if you use weapons alone. You need biotics in this game. They are not useless, they're just not god-like. In ME1, Lift worked on EVERYTHING, and the result was a combat system that felt brokenly easy. Maybe they should have an easy-mode where biotics like Pull and Throw work on anything and everything, but it wouldn't make for a more enjoyable game imo.

I am almost finished with my solo Insanity run as an Infiltrator. Crowd control is useless and a joke because any time it can be used, the enemy is dead. Husk charges, don't make me laugh, vindicator + AP ammo + headshots = target practice on husks. Widow + tactical cloak + ap ammo makes all bosses a complete joke. I mean come on, the Widow has 368 base damage. When you add in +70% from AP ammo, +50% from AP Sniper, +50% from weapon upgrades, +75% from tactical cloak, +15% from your class, +10% from visor, +15% from Miranda, +whatever bonus for headshots you get a really really big number. Also, I haven't tested it yet, but since tactical cloak says it makes powers do more damage it makes me think it will make heavy weapons do more damage. In which case you could 1 shot the last boss with the nuke.

Ammo isn't an issue, Vindicator + Hand Cannon + Widow and I've run out of ammo only a couple of times and you still have Incinerate as a backup for when you do. Also, tactical cloak + melee is a great way to finish things off and you always have the crappy SMG as backup if you ever need it.

You don't need CC when you 1-2 burst kill things with the Vindicator, 1 shot regulars with the Widow, and 2-3 shot Bosses with the Widow.

People complain that allowing Adepts to always use their abilities on enemies would be overpowered? I don't see how. It takes me .5 seconds to kill a normal Enemy and < 10 for bosses. Adepts would take 4 seconds with maxed out recharge time to get 1 kill via Pull+Throw combo. Their CC wouldn't be that overpowered due to AoE being very small on all biotics and the global cooldown. Yea they could keep a boss CCed forever, but I'm sure there's a way to fix that. Not like bosses hit me as an infiltrator anyways due to cover.

[Graunt]

vhatever wrote...

I'm sure you impressed all your junior high friends how much biottics pwn on casual mode.

Haha.  Maybe if the thread title was changed to "Why were biotics made useless in any difficulty higher than Veteran?" you wouldn't have so many people posting with how much they PWN with biotics and how they constantly one shot enemies with them.  Having the PC version though, I can't complain about the issue now, or at least I can't complain about my personal enjoyment.  They should however make an official patch for both the PC and 360 that does the same thing the INI tweak does because it actually makes the Adept fun again in the later difficulties, not just a tedious Warpbot.

I am almost finished with my solo Insanity run as an Infiltrator. Crowd
control is useless and a joke because any time it can be used, the
enemy is dead. Husk charges, don't make me laugh, vindicator + AP ammo
+ headshots = target practice on husks. Widow + tactical cloak + ap
ammo makes all bosses a complete joke. I mean come on, the Widow has
368 base damage. When you add in +70% from AP ammo, +50% from
AP Sniper, +50% from weapon upgrades, +75% from tactical cloak,
+15% from your class, +10% from visor, +15% from Miranda, +whatever
bonus for headshots you get a really really big number. Also, I haven't
tested it yet, but since tactical cloak says it makes powers do more
damage it makes me think it will make heavy weapons do more damage. In
which case you could 1 shot the last boss with the nuke.

Ammo
isn't an issue, Vindicator + Hand Cannon + Widow and I've run out of
ammo only a couple of times and you still have Incinerate as a backup
for when you do. Also, tactical cloak + melee is a great way to finish
things off and you always have the crappy SMG as backup if you ever
need it.

You don't need CC when you 1-2 burst kill things with
the Vindicator, 1 shot regulars with the Widow, and 2-3 shot Bosses
with the Widow.

People complain that allowing Adepts to always
use their abilities on enemies would be overpowered? I don't see how.
It takes me .5 seconds to kill a normal Enemy and < 10 for bosses.
Adepts would take 4 seconds with maxed out recharge time to get 1 kill
via Pull+Throw combo. Their CC wouldn't be that overpowered due to AoE
being very small on all biotics and the global cooldown. Yea they could
keep a boss CCed forever, but I'm sure there's a way to fix that. Not
like bosses hit me as an infiltrator anyways due to cover.

Yeah, I said in previous posts that it's fine for Infiltrators to be stupidly powerful in this game but not an Adept, and those that supposedly played an Infiltrator scoff at the idea that they really are that strong in comparison to everyone else.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 février 2010 - 07:02 .

[MGIII]

Graunt wrote...

vhatever wrote...

I'm sure you impressed all your junior high friends how much biottics pwn on casual mode.

Haha.  Maybe if the thread title was changed to "Why were biotics made useless in any difficulty higher than Veteran?" you wouldn't have so many people posting with how much they PWN with biotics and how they constantly one shot enemies with them.  Having the PC version though, I can't complain about the issue now, or at least I can't complain about my personal enjoyment.  They should however make an official patch for both the PC and 360 that does the same thing the INI tweak does because it actually makes the Adept fun again in the later difficulties, not just a tedious Warpbot.

And in the process breaks the game. Insanity is no longer Insanity, it's a tech demo for ragdoll physics. <_<

[Graunt]

MGIII wrote...

Graunt wrote...

vhatever wrote...

I'm sure you impressed all your junior high friends how much biottics pwn on casual mode.

Haha.  Maybe if the thread title was changed to "Why were biotics made useless in any difficulty higher than Veteran?" you wouldn't have so many people posting with how much they PWN with biotics and how they constantly one shot enemies with them.  Having the PC version though, I can't complain about the issue now, or at least I can't complain about my personal enjoyment.  They should however make an official patch for both the PC and 360 that does the same thing the INI tweak does because it actually makes the Adept fun again in the later difficulties, not just a tedious Warpbot.

And in the process breaks the game. Insanity is no longer Insanity, it's a tech demo for ragdoll physics. <_<

Did you forget that there's more classes than just the Adept?  Did you also forget that you don't instakill shielded and armored enemies just from pulling them off the ground?  All you get is CC and something to make your first Warp a little stronger.  How does making abilities go from "completely useless outside of Warp" to "supremely useful...LIKE ANY OTHER WEAPON OR ABILITY" broken?  Maybe you should actually try out it before making these claims.  

You can't possibly deny that the current system just doesn't make any sense from a "lore" perspective.  It's also not balanced either when you have classes like the Infiltrator, Soldier and Sentinel able to easily solo if they want through Insanity while with the Adept it's an exercise in monotony.

[KingDavid007]

Hoffburger wrote...

Popstick wrote...

I was ripping through the Collectors, Blue Suns/Bloods and Eclipse with an Adept on a mixture of Hardcore and Insanity...so, don't know what problems you were having. Heck, there were large segments of the game where I didn't even fire a single shot and could still clear a room. Throw a Warp to knock out their Barrier or Armour. If it's still up, fire a second one while behind cover. If there are multiple protected enemies, stay behind cover and fire Warp repeatedly until they're all softened up. Since the recharge time is very quick, 5 or so seconds, you can clear an entire room in a matter of minutes. Finish the softened up enemies with a couple of Pulls. I just let my squad mates shoot the floating enemies.

And your abilities don't scale with difficulty, but the enemies do. Unprotected enemies, Varren, Husks on Normal will have Armour on Hardcore and Insanity. Enemies will use upgraded weapons and fire powers more frequently compared to Normal.

I have yet to die as an adept on hardcore, it's just stupid to have to use warp 20 times or have to empty half of my ammo to bring down their armor and shields before I can do anything with my biotics. I tried an infiltrator and headshots with the sniper rifle, disruptor ammo, and incenerate just completely dominate anything an adept has because it simply 1 shots them once they get into health. I'm sure soldier is the same way.

Even in ME1 on insane difficulty you could still use biotics on enemies. Oh and the new warp is terrible IMO, not really worth spending points on. The damage it does is way less than the damage you could've done by simply shooting the enemy a few times.

Dont be an idiot, every class has it's pros and cons. I am an infiltrator. You don't see me ****ing about how cryo ammo doesn't work on insanity. You dont see me ****ing about how AI hacking doesnt work as effectively on easier difficulties. Come on man! In ME1 adepts were OP and their biotic skills scaled better than tech skills on higher difficulties. Besides I believe engineers have the same problem too.

[Graunt]

KingDavid007 wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

Popstick wrote...

I was ripping through the Collectors, Blue Suns/Bloods and Eclipse with an Adept on a mixture of Hardcore and Insanity...so, don't know what problems you were having. Heck, there were large segments of the game where I didn't even fire a single shot and could still clear a room. Throw a Warp to knock out their Barrier or Armour. If it's still up, fire a second one while behind cover. If there are multiple protected enemies, stay behind cover and fire Warp repeatedly until they're all softened up. Since the recharge time is very quick, 5 or so seconds, you can clear an entire room in a matter of minutes. Finish the softened up enemies with a couple of Pulls. I just let my squad mates shoot the floating enemies.

And your abilities don't scale with difficulty, but the enemies do. Unprotected enemies, Varren, Husks on Normal will have Armour on Hardcore and Insanity. Enemies will use upgraded weapons and fire powers more frequently compared to Normal.

I have yet to die as an adept on hardcore, it's just stupid to have to use warp 20 times or have to empty half of my ammo to bring down their armor and shields before I can do anything with my biotics. I tried an infiltrator and headshots with the sniper rifle, disruptor ammo, and incenerate just completely dominate anything an adept has because it simply 1 shots them once they get into health. I'm sure soldier is the same way.

Even in ME1 on insane difficulty you could still use biotics on enemies. Oh and the new warp is terrible IMO, not really worth spending points on. The damage it does is way less than the damage you could've done by simply shooting the enemy a few times.

Dont be an idiot, every class has it's pros and cons. I am an infiltrator. You don't see me ****ing about how cryo ammo doesn't work on insanity. You dont see me ****ing about how AI hacking doesnt work as effectively on easier difficulties. Come on man! In ME1 adepts were OP and their biotic skills scaled better than tech skills on higher difficulties. Besides I believe engineers have the same problem too.

You don't need Cryo ammo to work when you can one shot, to two shot enemies on Insanity as an Infiltrator.  The Adpet has to use Warp 3-4x on the same target and at a higher risk.  Can't really argue about Engineers too much though, they are probably the second to worst class if not tied for second to worst.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 février 2010 - 07:05 .

[Jarmelopt]

KingDavid007 wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

Popstick wrote...

I was ripping through the Collectors, Blue Suns/Bloods and Eclipse with an Adept on a mixture of Hardcore and Insanity...so, don't know what problems you were having. Heck, there were large segments of the game where I didn't even fire a single shot and could still clear a room. Throw a Warp to knock out their Barrier or Armour. If it's still up, fire a second one while behind cover. If there are multiple protected enemies, stay behind cover and fire Warp repeatedly until they're all softened up. Since the recharge time is very quick, 5 or so seconds, you can clear an entire room in a matter of minutes. Finish the softened up enemies with a couple of Pulls. I just let my squad mates shoot the floating enemies.

And your abilities don't scale with difficulty, but the enemies do. Unprotected enemies, Varren, Husks on Normal will have Armour on Hardcore and Insanity. Enemies will use upgraded weapons and fire powers more frequently compared to Normal.

I have yet to die as an adept on hardcore, it's just stupid to have to use warp 20 times or have to empty half of my ammo to bring down their armor and shields before I can do anything with my biotics. I tried an infiltrator and headshots with the sniper rifle, disruptor ammo, and incenerate just completely dominate anything an adept has because it simply 1 shots them once they get into health. I'm sure soldier is the same way.

Even in ME1 on insane difficulty you could still use biotics on enemies. Oh and the new warp is terrible IMO, not really worth spending points on. The damage it does is way less than the damage you could've done by simply shooting the enemy a few times.

Dont be an idiot, every class has it's pros and cons. I am an infiltrator. You don't see me ****ing about how cryo ammo doesn't work on insanity. You dont see me ****ing about how AI hacking doesnt work as effectively on easier difficulties. Come on man! In ME1 adepts were OP and their biotic skills scaled better than tech skills on higher difficulties. Besides I believe engineers have the same problem too.

You're an idiot if you use cryo in the first place.  Infiltrators have alot more options in Insanity than the Adept does.  The adept is stuck with warp and sometimes Singularity.  The infiltrator has the cloak at all times as well as Incinerate which is debately more useful than Warp is.  Infiltrators can adapt which is their strong point.  There are some really really hard parts with the Infiltrator though due to their lack of crowd control and the absolute swarms there are on Insanity.

Edit:Once again Infiltrator is probably tied with Soldier as the best class and the rest just go downhill from there.

Modifié par Jarmelopt, 01 février 2010 - 07:09 .

[Hoffburger]

MGIII wrote...

Graunt wrote...

vhatever wrote...

I'm sure you impressed all your junior high friends how much biottics pwn on casual mode.

Haha.  Maybe if the thread title was changed to "Why were biotics made useless in any difficulty higher than Veteran?" you wouldn't have so many people posting with how much they PWN with biotics and how they constantly one shot enemies with them.  Having the PC version though, I can't complain about the issue now, or at least I can't complain about my personal enjoyment.  They should however make an official patch for both the PC and 360 that does the same thing the INI tweak does because it actually makes the Adept fun again in the later difficulties, not just a tedious Warpbot.

And in the process breaks the game. Insanity is no longer Insanity, it's a tech demo for ragdoll physics. <_<

1. Not all areas have places to throw people off of for instant kills.

2. Rarely do you ever fight just 1 enemy.

3. Global Cooldowns.

4. Pull + Throw Combo takes 4 seconds minimum (6 or so if you count flight time).

5. AoE for biotics is ridiculously small.

6. Every class in the game can kill a regular enemy in under 4 seconds with weapons or damaging powers like warp/incinerate/reave.

7. Nobody wants to be able to permanently CC a boss, just the regular enemies like you should be able to.

8. Characters like Jacob will actually be useful again.



After playing the game a few times I've noticed that bosses are the only enemies with armor AND sheidls/barrier. Regular enemies have armor OR shield/barrier. If possible an easy solution would be to allow biotics to work on anything with 2 "health bars" but not 3. There you go, problem solved.

[MGIII]

Graunt wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Graunt wrote...

vhatever wrote...

I'm sure you impressed all your junior high friends how much biottics pwn on casual mode.

Haha.  Maybe if the thread title was changed to "Why were biotics made useless in any difficulty higher than Veteran?" you wouldn't have so many people posting with how much they PWN with biotics and how they constantly one shot enemies with them.  Having the PC version though, I can't complain about the issue now, or at least I can't complain about my personal enjoyment.  They should however make an official patch for both the PC and 360 that does the same thing the INI tweak does because it actually makes the Adept fun again in the later difficulties, not just a tedious Warpbot.

And in the process breaks the game. Insanity is no longer Insanity, it's a tech demo for ragdoll physics. <_<

Did you forget that there's more classes than just the Adept?  Did you also forget that you don't instakill shielded and armored enemies just from pulling them off the ground?  All you get is CC and something to make your first Warp a little stronger.  How does making abilities go from "completely useless outside of Warp" to "supremely useful...LIKE ANY OTHER WEAPON OR ABILITY" broken?  Maybe you should actually try out it before making these claims.  

You can't possibly deny that the current system just doesn't make any sense from a "lore" perspective.  It's also not balanced either when you have classes like the Infiltrator, Soldier and Sentinel able to easily solo if they want through Insanity while with the Adept it's an exercise in monotony.

Bioware could easily say that armor and shield have seen new advances that allow them to resist mass effect field or somesuch. I must admit, I'm not too snappy on ME's "lore". I mean, a guy comes back brand new after being "deader than dead", which defies physiological facts we know now (there's no way Cerberus could've reconstructed his memories and ****), but no one complains about that. Or how Miranda face doesn't explode when she's in a hard vacuum with a mask on (unless that mask somehow equalizes her internal pressure with...nothing).

Modifié par MGIII, 01 février 2010 - 07:09 .