1428 réponses à ce sujet

[MGIII]

Graunt wrote...

KingDavid007 wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

Popstick wrote...

I was ripping through the Collectors, Blue Suns/Bloods and Eclipse with an Adept on a mixture of Hardcore and Insanity...so, don't know what problems you were having. Heck, there were large segments of the game where I didn't even fire a single shot and could still clear a room. Throw a Warp to knock out their Barrier or Armour. If it's still up, fire a second one while behind cover. If there are multiple protected enemies, stay behind cover and fire Warp repeatedly until they're all softened up. Since the recharge time is very quick, 5 or so seconds, you can clear an entire room in a matter of minutes. Finish the softened up enemies with a couple of Pulls. I just let my squad mates shoot the floating enemies.

And your abilities don't scale with difficulty, but the enemies do. Unprotected enemies, Varren, Husks on Normal will have Armour on Hardcore and Insanity. Enemies will use upgraded weapons and fire powers more frequently compared to Normal.

I have yet to die as an adept on hardcore, it's just stupid to have to use warp 20 times or have to empty half of my ammo to bring down their armor and shields before I can do anything with my biotics. I tried an infiltrator and headshots with the sniper rifle, disruptor ammo, and incenerate just completely dominate anything an adept has because it simply 1 shots them once they get into health. I'm sure soldier is the same way.

Even in ME1 on insane difficulty you could still use biotics on enemies. Oh and the new warp is terrible IMO, not really worth spending points on. The damage it does is way less than the damage you could've done by simply shooting the enemy a few times.

Dont be an idiot, every class has it's pros and cons. I am an infiltrator. You don't see me ****ing about how cryo ammo doesn't work on insanity. You dont see me ****ing about how AI hacking doesnt work as effectively on easier difficulties. Come on man! In ME1 adepts were OP and their biotic skills scaled better than tech skills on higher difficulties. Besides I believe engineers have the same problem too.

You don't need Cryo ammo to work when you can one shot, to two shot enemies on Insanity as an Infiltrator.  The Adpet has to use Warp 3-4x on the same target and at a higher risk.  Can't really argue about Engineers too much though, they are probably the second to worst class if not tied for second to worst.

One Warp, a few bursts from the SMG to those same enemies an Infy one-shots. By the time an Infy reloads their Widow SR, the other classes would be mowing down the other enemies. It's ROF is a small drawback. Better for bosses, though.

[Hoffburger]

KingDavid007 wrote...

Dont be an idiot, every class has it's pros and cons. I am an infiltrator. You don't see me ****ing about how cryo ammo doesn't work on insanity. You dont see me ****ing about how AI hacking doesnt work as effectively on easier difficulties. Come on man! In ME1 adepts were OP and their biotic skills scaled better than tech skills on higher difficulties. Besides I believe engineers have the same problem too.

Infiltrators were the best class in ME1, they had the highest damage and they had immunity, making them unkillable.

Engineers have less of an issue because they get overload for shields, Incinerate for armor/health, sentry for CC that works on all enemies, and Reave for biotics and armor. Combine this with AR or sniper bonus weapon and they are arguably one of the better classes for Insanity.

In fact, if you pick up Reave for Vanguards and AP Ammo for Adepts and Sentinels, they will all be pretty optimal for Insanity. Here's the catch though, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS GODDAMN THREAD IS ABOUT.

Who cares about being overpowered? What's gonna happen, someone going to beat your speedrun time? Jeeze. People just want fun, luckily they can do that on PC, I just feel bad for people on 360 (sorta, I really hate console kiddies but realize not all people who own one are, bad experiences with halo 3 tainted my views on consoles). They just have to play nice and not lift/singularity a boss to death to preserve some of the difficulty, as if there was any to begin with.

[Hoffburger]

MGIII wrote...

One Warp, a few bursts from the SMG to those same enemies an Infy one-shots. By the time an Infy reloads their Widow SR, the other classes would be mowing down the other enemies. It's ROF is a small drawback. Better for bosses, though.

You don't waste Widow on regular enemies unless you see tons of ammo lying around or know there is a heavy weapon ammo crate lying around. The Vindicator is what you use on normal enemies.

That being said, the Widow still kills enemies more quickly than anything else in the entire game. If you count the reload you can kill an enemy every 2 seconds or so.

[MGIII]

Hoffburger wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Graunt wrote...

vhatever wrote...

I'm sure you impressed all your junior high friends how much biottics pwn on casual mode.

Haha.  Maybe if the thread title was changed to "Why were biotics made useless in any difficulty higher than Veteran?" you wouldn't have so many people posting with how much they PWN with biotics and how they constantly one shot enemies with them.  Having the PC version though, I can't complain about the issue now, or at least I can't complain about my personal enjoyment.  They should however make an official patch for both the PC and 360 that does the same thing the INI tweak does because it actually makes the Adept fun again in the later difficulties, not just a tedious Warpbot.

And in the process breaks the game. Insanity is no longer Insanity, it's a tech demo for ragdoll physics. <_<

1. Not all areas have places to throw people off of for instant kills.

2. Rarely do you ever fight just 1 enemy.

3. Global Cooldowns.

4. Pull + Throw Combo takes 4 seconds minimum (6 or so if you count flight time).

5. AoE for biotics is ridiculously small.

6. Every class in the game can kill a regular enemy in under 4 seconds with weapons or damaging powers like warp/incinerate/reave.

7. Nobody wants to be able to permanently CC a boss, just the regular enemies like you should be able to.

8. Characters like Jacob will actually be useful again.



After playing the game a few times I've noticed that bosses are the only enemies with armor AND sheidls/barrier. Regular enemies have armor OR shield/barrier. If possible an easy solution would be to allow biotics to work on anything with 2 "health bars" but not 3. There you go, problem solved.

Shockwave which has the great range of CC in the game recharges in around three seconds (as in, before the enemy can get back up or retaliate).

True. Might as well be one with how hast biotics cooldown in this game.

I can only speak for Shockwave, but its AoE is quite impressive. Largest in the game, actually.

I never said biotics should be used to attack one enemy. You're better off just shooting them. Biotics were never the damaging part of the combat trifecta.

He would be even more useful if he has better AI to accomodate his role.

I myself came up with the idea that large CCing biotics like Singularity could affect all enemies regardless if they're naked or not, but it would have a huge cooldown (twenty seconds or something). The lesser biotics like pull or Throw would not go through armor and shields and their cooldowns would stay the game. This way, skills are more individualized and they stand out more, as well as adding a dimension of strategy to the game. 

[MGIII]

Hoffburger wrote...

In fact, if you pick up Reave for Vanguards and AP Ammo for Adepts and Sentinels, they will all be pretty optimal for Insanity. Here's the catch though, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS GODDAMN THREAD IS ABOUT.

To be fair, your thread title and OP are misleading. The discussion has evolved.

Modifié par MGIII, 01 février 2010 - 07:24 .

[Hoffburger]

MGIII wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

In fact, if you pick up Reave for Vanguards and AP Ammo for Adepts and Sentinels, they will all be pretty optimal for Insanity. Here's the catch though, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS GODDAMN THREAD IS ABOUT.

To be fair, your thread title and OP are misleading. The discussion has evolved.

The title may be, but the OP is most definitely clear as to what the discussion is about. If people are too lazy to read the OP then they shouldn't be banned from the boards or anything, they should be neutered so that they don't produce any offspring.

We have to keep Idiocracy from becoming a documentary instead of fiction.

[The_11thDoctor]

Someone doesnt understand how to use biotics... I rarely shoot anything and my bios shred anything...

[Hoffburger]

aang001 wrote...

Someone doesnt understand how to use biotics... I rarely shoot anything and my bios shred anything...

Someone doesn't understand how to read...

Modifié par Hoffburger, 01 février 2010 - 07:59 .

[Tested-Faythe]

Ok, let me say this. I'm a level 30 Adept. I went through Grunt, Tali, Samara, AND Thane's missions virtually unaided by my squadmates ON INSANITY. Throughout all that I died maybe 3 times. I just finished with my recruitment missions. (minus legion). I've died maybe 10 times. Oh, and I've used MediGel like twice.



All you need is Heavy Energy Drain, Heavy Warp, and Wide Singularity. Drain the guys' shields, Warp their armor/ barriers (I can take down most in one hit). of the entire group, through out a couple singularities, and warp to cause massive damage. WORKS. EVERY. TIME.

[Graunt]

Tested-Faythe wrote...

Ok, let me say this. I'm a level 30 Adept. I went through Grunt, Tali, Samara, AND Thane's missions virtually unaided by my squadmates ON INSANITY. Throughout all that I died maybe 3 times. I just finished with my recruitment missions. (minus legion). I've died maybe 10 times. Oh, and I've used MediGel like twice.

All you need is Heavy Energy Drain, Heavy Warp, and Wide Singularity. Drain the guys' shields, Warp their armor/ barriers (I can take down most in one hit). of the entire group, through out a couple singularities, and warp to cause massive damage. WORKS. EVERY. TIME.

Again, missing the point entirely.  Can you use pull or throw on any enemy without having to use Warp/Drain first?  Does Singularity do anything other than a miniscule snare before you use two other biotics before it?  Is it sinking in yet?  And who the hell starts out playing Insanity at level 30? Of course you're going to think it's easy, you're playing with a giant advantage early on, but it doesn't matter what class you pick for that.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 février 2010 - 08:15 .

[Xivai]

Tested-Faythe wrote...

Ok, let me say this. I'm a level 30 Adept. I went through Grunt, Tali, Samara, AND Thane's missions virtually unaided by my squadmates ON INSANITY. Throughout all that I died maybe 3 times. I just finished with my recruitment missions. (minus legion). I've died maybe 10 times. Oh, and I've used MediGel like twice.

All you need is Heavy Energy Drain, Heavy Warp, and Wide Singularity. Drain the guys' shields, Warp their armor/ barriers (I can take down most in one hit). of the entire group, through out a couple singularities, and warp to cause massive damage. WORKS. EVERY. TIME.

No no no your doing it all wrong. What's it called again? Reading yes that's it!

This isn't about Biotics being "useless" it is about how ineffective and how much harder it is to use them comparable to every other class. I don't think it fair everyone whined about adepts being stronger in ME1 and got us a nerf. Then the time comes around Adepts have been over nerfed and are calling for a buff/nerf of other classes everyone tells us to shut up.

However that is not even the point. The point is exactly what you stated. We only need those abilities. I didn't choose the Warp/Singularity class. I chose the Adept with a wide variety of Biotic abilities to kick some ass. Except I am stuck spamming warp/singularity on insanity. If all the other classes have a bag of tricks to use why is ours so heavily penealized?

WORSE! This is a single player game. Who cares if something is imbalanced. How the **** did that even crop up? It has no relevance to a single player game. Until now apparently. I think Mass Effect 2 is the first single player game in histroy to listen to the community about nerfing things half of them don't ****ing use or ever see. It didn't make sense right from the get go.

If soldiers can go in and take a bajillion hits and keep fighting and be uber leet ass kicking machines. Then I want my adept to physics control the battle. I want to feel powerful.

If Engineers can god damn roast anything tech related and feel in awe as they control the battlefield, I want to also feel strong as an adept.

If Sentinels have a ****ing swiss army knife attachment for any situation from shooting someone to picking your teeth I want my ****ing throw to actually throw.

If Infiltraitors can cloak and shut down small groups of enemies and kick ass with a sniper. I want my biotic powers to work god damn it!

If Vanguards charge in and live and kick some all mighty ass in a tidal wave of god damn cranage and shotgun shells. I want my god damn lift to throw people all willy nilly and feel in god damn awe!

All the other classes are cool, amazing, give you a sense of power, and most importantly. THEIR GOD DAMN POWERS WORK!!!

I can't stress the stupidity of that last point the most. It seems like the Adept has just been ****ing wailed and beaten over and over with a nerf bat.

Worse the Devs and mods just chuck any Biotics "complaint" thread intot his old and outdated one where we can't ****ing discuss the problem and try offer suggestions and construtive feedback because it all get sucked up into this crap whole whine fest. It's just a horrible cycle.

Modifié par Xivai, 01 février 2010 - 08:19 .

[flamingdts]

Too bad Vanguards aren't doing much better. Their biotic abilities are even more useless. Charge is just dangerous for a Vanguard in every possible way, because you barely harm the enemy when you hit them and you don't even knock them over.



Change the health to shield ratio, that should give biotics a reason to use their abilities instead of just finishing them off with a couple of shots.

[Jarmelopt]

Xivai wrote...

Tested-Faythe wrote...

Ok, let me say this. I'm a level 30 Adept. I went through Grunt, Tali, Samara, AND Thane's missions virtually unaided by my squadmates ON INSANITY. Throughout all that I died maybe 3 times. I just finished with my recruitment missions. (minus legion). I've died maybe 10 times. Oh, and I've used MediGel like twice.

All you need is Heavy Energy Drain, Heavy Warp, and Wide Singularity. Drain the guys' shields, Warp their armor/ barriers (I can take down most in one hit). of the entire group, through out a couple singularities, and warp to cause massive damage. WORKS. EVERY. TIME.

No no no your doing it all wrong. What's it called again? Reading yes that's it!

This isn't about Biotics being "useless" it is about how ineffective and how much harder it is to use them comparable to every other class. I don't think it fair everyone whined about adepts being stronger in ME1 and got us a nerf. Then the time comes around Adepts have been over nerfed and are calling for a buff/nerf of other classes everyone tells us to shut up.

However that is not even the point. The point is exactly what you stated. We only need those abilities. I didn't choose the Warp/Singularity class. I chose the Adept with a wide variety of Biotic abilities to kick some ass. Except I am stuck spamming warp/singularity on insanity. If all the other classes have a bag of tricks to use why is ours so heavily penealized?

WORSE! This is a single player game. Who cares if something is imbalanced. How the **** did that even crop up? It has no relevance to a single player game. Until now apparently. I think Mass Effect 2 is the first single player game in histroy to listen to the community about nerfing things half of them don't ****ing use or ever see. It didn't make sense right from the get go.

If soldiers can go in and take a bajillion hits and keep fighting and be uber leet ass kicking machines. Then I want my adept to physics control the battle. I want to feel powerful.

If Engineers can god damn roast anything tech related and feel in awe as they control the battlefield, I want to also feel strong as an adept.

If Sentinels have a ****ing swiss army knife attachment for any situation from shooting someone to picking your teeth I want my ****ing throw to actually throw.

If Infiltraitors can cloak and shut down small groups of enemies and kick ass with a sniper. I want my biotic powers to work god damn it!

If Vanguards charge in and live and kick some all mighty ass in a tidal wave of god damn cranage and shotgun shells. I want my god damn lift to throw people all willy nilly and feel in god damn awe!

All the other classes are cool, amazing, give you a sense of power, and most importantly. THEIR GOD DAMN POWERS WORK!!!

I can't stress the stupidity of that last point the most. It seems like the Adept has just been ****ing wailed and beaten over and over with a nerf bat.

Worse the Devs and mods just chuck any Biotics "complaint" thread intot his old and outdated one where we can't ****ing discuss the problem and try offer suggestions and construtive feedback because it all get sucked up into this crap whole whine fest. It's just a horrible cycle.

To be fair the Vanguard gotta a pretty raw deal too.  Charge is very situational.

[vhatever]

Umm, staring over with a 25+ adept is way harder than your first playthrough. The adept has no advantage whatsoever. Try it before you open your mouth about it again.



But you should take note at the missions he said he completed, and pay close attention that he left out a bunch of missions where he died over and over. He only named missions where you can go through the entire thing just plinking away with biotics because the enemy never rushes you with anything serious or put you on a time limit.



Plink, plink, plink 10 minutes later 3-4 dead mercs, basically. ZzZZz

[Graunt]

vhatever wrote...

Umm, staring over with a 25+ adept is way harder than your first playthrough. The adept has no advantage whatsoever. Try it before you open your mouth about it again.

But you should take note at the missions he said he completed, and pay close attention that he left out a bunch of missions where he died over and over. He only named missions where you can go through the entire thing just plinking away with biotics because the enemy never rushes you with anything serious or put you on a time limit.

Plink, plink, plink 10 minutes later 3-4 dead mercs, basically. ZzZZz

Who are you talking to?  Yes they DO have an advantage over someone starting out at level one.  Make sense to you now?  Notice how I also said every other class can do the same?

Modifié par Graunt, 01 février 2010 - 08:32 .

[Xivai]

Who else wishes the developers would take a look back into Biotics? I don't care if we have to wait until Mass Effect 3. I just want to know if they will look into re-balancing the Adept in some way shape or form.Also make an official comment on it. Something, anything!?

Modifié par Xivai, 01 février 2010 - 08:35 .

[Graunt]

Xivai wrote...

Who else wishes the developers would take a look back into Biotics? I don't care if we have to wait until Mass Effect 3. I just want to know if they will look into re-balancing the Adept in some way shape or form.Also make an official comment on it. Something, anything!?

The current state of the game didn't affect sales and more than likely drew in more people from "that crowd", which was their goal.  It's those very same people that have no problem with the way biotics work because they wouldn't use them anyway, so there's no reason to spend time and money to fix something only a vocal minority care about.

[vhatever]

Graunt, you obviously have not played newgame + so why the hell do you keep making a fool out of yourself.



When you start over on insanity newgame+, your enemies deal twice as much damage to you than they normally would, and your biotics do about half as much as they should. Shut up already if you don't know what you are talking about.

[Xivai]

Graunt wrote...

Xivai wrote...

Who else wishes the developers would take a look back into Biotics? I don't care if we have to wait until Mass Effect 3. I just want to know if they will look into re-balancing the Adept in some way shape or form.Also make an official comment on it. Something, anything!?

The current state of the game didn't affect sales and more than likely drew in more people from "that crowd", which was their goal.  It's those very same people that have no problem with the way biotics work because they wouldn't use them anyway, so there's no reason to spend time and money to fix something only a vocal minority care about.

Yet it was a vocal minority that got it nerfed in the first place... so... irritating.

Edit
You don't start with any bonus in ME2 for a ng+ as an adept. Your powers go back to weaksauce, and your enemies get harder and immune to everything. I should know, it took long enough to kill one god damn Y-MIR.

Modifié par Xivai, 01 février 2010 - 08:41 .

[Graunt]

vhatever wrote...

Graunt, you obviously have not played newgame + so why the hell do you keep making a fool out of yourself.

When you start over on insanity newgame+, your enemies deal twice as much damage to you than they normally would, and your biotics do about half as much as they should. Shut up already if you don't know what you are talking about.

You keep replying with venom and don't even know what the hell you're replying to.  Instead of throwing stupid insults, how about you comprehend just what was being stated first?  Don't act stupid and claim that only the Adept has scaling issues.  Every class can start out at the level you finished your previous game, but to also claim they have NO ADVANTAGE AT ALL is completely false.  And where did I make any comparison about starting a new game on normal compared to a leveled up character on Insanity?  That's right, I didn't, you did.  My comparison was a level one compared to a nearly max level character starting out on Insanity.  Keep replying without reading more than the first sentence though.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 février 2010 - 08:45 .

[vhatever]

Nice attempt at deflectiom, Graunt. You were wrong, now apologize or slither off.

[Coffee_without_sugar]

unfortunately I have to agree, a lot of the fun I had with my Vanguard and Adept back in ME1 is gone.

Who cares about balance in a single player game? Every class should be FUN to play ...



Worst thing is the global cooldown tho ... Wish I could properly use Barrier -> Charge -> Shockwave with my vanguard Gimme longer cooldowns on each ability, fair enough, but the global cooldown takes all the fun of biotics away for me

[For Humanity]

vhatever wrote...

Nice attempt at deflectiom, Graunt. You were wrong, now apologize or slither off.

Do you agree that spamming one biotic power until the enemy is dead is not fun:
(Yes) - Then we agree and biotics need to be rebalanced.
(No) - Then have fun with that but the majority of the forum adepts/vanguards disagree.

Any other response is a troll post and requires you to shutup.

[_Dannok1234]

For Humanity wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Nice attempt at deflectiom, Graunt. You were wrong, now apologize or slither off.

Do you agree that spamming one biotic power until the enemy is dead is not fun:
(Yes) - Then we agree and biotics need to be rebalanced.
(No) - Then have fun with that but the majority of the forum adepts/vanguards disagree.

Any other response is a troll post and requires you to shutup.

Actually that should be two abilities. At least starting as a level 5 adept on insanity I found it very useful to throw Singularity(it does damage their defenses) then Warp. Also felt a fair bit easier then doing the same as a vanguard, probably due to the fact that as a vanguard your in danger of running out of ammo, while with the adept, you don't really need to fire a single shot.

If biotics would work on enemies with full shields and armor, then there wouldn't be a point to playing on insanity really, as the game would simply be too easy. As adepts would have abilities to nearly oneshot anyone without any ammo cost at all.
Weird thing is, most seem to think that biotics are fine on normal, but needs more power on higher difficulties, but the whole point of biotics being weaker is so that those difficulties will be harder.

Personally I don't find it more fun as a soldier starting out on insanity, you have to shoot forever for things to drop, I prefer adding in some useful abilities to that.(and still shoot).

About vanguards.. I found it frustrating early on due to lack of defenses and inability to charge around like a mad bunny from hell. But once you get some kit going, then thats sorted out and charge works just fine. (Althought a lot of people don't seem to think so. But it sure as hell works for me, against pretty much anything with full defenses up)