1428 réponses à ce sujet

[Elanareon]

Wait i read a stupid post... Sales was not affected by the nerfs? Of course not! They didn't know it was broken! This is a much awaited game were many people pre ordered!

[Graunt]

WillieStyle wrote...

vhatever wrote...

The trailers were pretty desceiving. ME1 was also decieving. In Me1, adepts didn't do crazy damage or anything like that, what they excelled at was ragdolling NPCs around, basically pulling enemies out of cover and stopping rushing enmies.

It was fine. Why did they change it?

I haven't played a biotic class yet so I can't comment on their relative power in ME2 but this statement is ridiculous.

They changed Adepts from ME1 for the same reason they nerfed Immunity: it was overpowerd as hell.

An Adept with Bastion Stasis could permanantly lock down every enemy on screen indefinitely.  I could lock down the final boss so thoroughly that he literarily couldn't do a single thing the entire fight.

Adepts may be too weak in ME2 but if you can't see why they were nerfed from ME1 then you have no business commenting on game ballance.

Locking down enemies isn't the same thing as killing them.  Your teammates were mostly garbage in the first game so it was essentially a solo character game that had two utility knives in his back pocket for situational use.  The only time biotics were ever "broken" were in extremely large spaces where you could lift-kill someone.  Other than that you still had to fire weapons and Adepts were about as bottom of the barrel in weapon damage as you could get.  Biotics were perfectly fine in the original except in a few select sequences that were far from the majority of the game.  Now if you want to replace "biotics" with "Vanguard" when making your argument for the first game, then I agree.

Wait i read a stupid post... Sales was not affected by the nerfs? Of
course not! They didn't know it was broken! This is a much awaited game
were many people pre ordered!

Two million people didn't preorder and the game was still selling well after the people that got it from day one finished it.  It will also likely end up selling close to double that amount over time.  Like I said, they won't go making some huge adjustment to the game just to appease the small vocal minority when the reason they even sold as many units as they did (and will) was because of the TPS aspect which is nothing more than shoot, shoot, shoot.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 février 2010 - 02:14 .

[Cyricist]

I finished the game with an Adept and I thought Biotics worked BETTER in ME2 than in part 1.



In part one, the only Biotics I used were Lift & Barrier like powers. In 2, I used all of them. Not useless IMO.

[dan79r]

If you think biotics in ME2 worked better than ME1 you have a pretty bad memory.

[Graunt]

Cyricist wrote...

I finished the game with an Adept and I thought Biotics worked BETTER in ME2 than in part 1.

In part one, the only Biotics I used were Lift & Barrier like powers. In 2, I used all of them. Not useless IMO.

Lift, Throw, and Singularity were all equally used by me in the first.  Stasis not so much except on the largest Armatures (sic?) and I only ever put one point into it, Warp and Barrier were situational but still used.

Modifié par Graunt, 01 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[Tech6425]

i find this thread quite ironic with regards to my experience... in ME1 i didnt touch any powers and just used weaps to cut enemies down... in this game i use powers prolly 75% of the attacks i make.



now i do paly on normal level so there are still some enemies that dont have shields on them. in my case combat isnt what im playing the game for, though it is quite fun

[WillieStyle]

vhatever wrote...

There isn't anything  ridiculous about my statement, only that it appears anywhere near the sheer retardaton of one of your own posts.

You said stasis lockdown was overpowered, great. So the hell what? Stasis is gone. Did they need to nerf singularity and throw, too? All I said was that ME1 adepts were all about crowd control, so where is my statement ridiculous? It's purely factual.

No that is NOT what you said. You said that Adepts were "fine" in ME1.  That was clearly not the case.  Now they may have nerfed Biotics too much in ME2. I don't know.  But the crowd control aspects of Biotics from ME1 clearly needed nerfing.

[Edit]
And it wasn't just stasis that was overpowered.  Singularity and Lift also needed a good nerfing.  Throw/pull I am agnostic about. But the rest definitely needed to be nerfed.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 01 février 2010 - 02:50 .

[WillieStyle]

Besetment wrote...

Bastion Stasis only works on a single target which means that it has very limited advantage over Nemesis Lift and Singularity (both of which mass incapacitate over a large area). Bastion Stasis is most useful against enemies that are immune to Lift and Singularity (i.e. the end boss) but it ain't broken. If it had an area of effect like Singularity then yeah I'd agree but it doesn't. Even if it did, Immunity is still better.

Sigh! If this is your reasoning then no wonder you're upset with ME2.  Bastion Stasis made a single character totaly helpless AND allowed you to damage the target.  It allowed you to completely lock down the final boss in the game. I'll repeat: Bastion Stasis in ME1 allowed you to COMPLETELY lockdown the final boss in the game.

But it could only be used on one target at a time so it wasn't "broken?"  The mind boggles.

Biotic classes in ME1 always had limited survivability (can't use Heavy Armor or Immunity) so they needed mass crowd control so they could kill stuff without getting owned by rockets and other types of attack which bypass shields.

Not true. An Adept or Vanguard could simply spam Barrier and stay out in the open tanking every enemy on screen with impunity. [Edit]And rockets moved so slowly in ME1 that I could just sidestep them as I continued to melt faces [/Edit]
By the way, a Soldier or Infiltrator could do this with immunity as well. Both Barrier and Immunity were too good in ME1.  Player survivability was nerfed to improve the game.  Biotic crowd control was nerfed for the same reason.  They may have over-nerfed biotics, but some nerfs were necessary.  If your argument is that no nerfs were needed, then you immediately loose all credibility. 

Modifié par WillieStyle, 01 février 2010 - 03:01 .

[Darth Obvious]

Tech6425 wrote...

i find this thread quite ironic with regards to my experience... in ME1 i didnt touch any powers and just used weaps to cut enemies down... in this game i use powers prolly 75% of the attacks i make.

I'm working on an Insanity playthrough, and I can say that powers have been absolutely essential to my survival. I am constantly using Warp from my Sentinel and from Miranda, not to mention their tech Overload. Picked Warp Ammo as my bonus power, although I can't really tell if it's having an effect or not.

[tonnactus]

Tech6425 wrote...

.. in ME1 i didnt touch any powers and just used weaps to cut enemies down...

Not on insane with mercs spamming immunity and those nasty charging krogans who did the same.

[MBirkhofer]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Tech6425 wrote...

i find this thread quite ironic with regards to my experience... in ME1 i didnt touch any powers and just used weaps to cut enemies down... in this game i use powers prolly 75% of the attacks i make.

I'm working on an Insanity playthrough, and I can say that powers have been absolutely essential to my survival. I am constantly using Warp from my Sentinel and from Miranda, not to mention their tech Overload. Picked Warp Ammo as my bonus power, although I can't really tell if it's having an effect or not.

Adepts in ME2 are basically complete mirrors of Adepts in ME1.  Its kindof funny really.
In 1.  Warp was complete garbage.  Lift was total godmode. Trivilizing every single encounter.  With throw and singularity doing their part as well.  You had complete lockdown on everything, and just shot it to death while it floated around.
In2.  Its warp that is godmode. or at least your most powerful tool.  While all the incompacitates are not very useful.  Pull is lift, rebalanced to not be so overpowered.  But single target, and much weaker. Not working on any heavy(armored/shielded) targets. (it worked on everything in 1, including coloussus.) Throw has the same problem. Single target, doesnt work on anything but reds.   Singularity at least is still multitarget, but again only reds.

Shockwave is a new ability, and is only ok.  It also, only works on reds, but does a decent job of aoe hits on hucks/varren/etc. Kindof weak.   I probably would have prefered keeping Barrier.

Adepts really need a teammate with Overload to do well. (or just use a heavy weapon to blow through sheilds.)  Warp handles everything else well.

I would have also liked to be able to get Jack's cgi, biotic fist of doom.

Modifié par MBirkhofer, 01 février 2010 - 04:34 .

[WrexKroganKing]

To the guy who stated how bottom of the barrel Adepts were in regards to weaponry in ME1: they had access to the pistol, the best weapon in the game. Spam Master Marksman on a Spectre X pistol with dual Scram Rail X - the highest damage output weapon in the game.

[Roxlimn]

I imagine that if an Adept really had that much trouble with Shields, then he or she could upgrade his SMG quickly to offset the weakness, and use team mate abilities to take down Shields. On Hardcore, I found the Throw and Pull abilities especially helpful for taking down charging krogan and to otherwise control the pace of battle. Taking out an enemy without defenses still take a while, especially if it's in cover. Pull and Throw make finishing off enemies easier.



So far, I'm finding the biotics in ME2 reasonable, but they definitely take a back seat to the gunplay. Losing AR use in ME 1 wasn't that big of a deal. It is in ME 2.

[lonestar614]

I'm definitely finding the biotic characters useful. I particularly like the combo of Miranda and Mordin (I love Incinerate)

[kappukiino]

Hoffburger wrote...

Seriously, you can only use them on enemies once they have no armor or shields? All enemies die very quickly once you remove their armor and shields, the time it takes a biotic power to get there you could just shoot them once or twice more.

I expected biotics to be fun this time around, not even needing to use weapons and such, especially after the trailers. I mean I could understand not being able to pull+throw to instakill a boss or large mech, but every single enemy in the game? Oh well, time to reroll soldier/infiltrator, seems like they intended everyone to use ammo and tech powers only.

Are you serious? Useless?

Im a vanguard and i always have someone else with biotic and one or two with some tech talents with me and i assure you, biotics do most of the work in disabling and killing the enemies.

You being able to lift a fully armored and shielded person up in the air would be biotics overpowered, u could basicly spam biotics and shoot him and he'd be helpless...

Imo it makes sense that shields somehow absorb some of the biotics, if this wasnt the case, they'd be far too overpowered.

But imo biotics are far better than in ME1 and theyre absolutely great in many ways


And to the guy above me, i love to mess with them like that, lift them up, burn and send them flying with throw, its epic.

Modifié par kappukiino, 01 février 2010 - 04:46 .

[MBirkhofer]

Roxlimn wrote...

I imagine that if an Adept really had that much trouble with Shields, then he or she could upgrade his SMG quickly to offset the weakness, and use team mate abilities to take down Shields. On Hardcore, I found the Throw and Pull abilities especially helpful for taking down charging krogan and to otherwise control the pace of battle. Taking out an enemy without defenses still take a while, especially if it's in cover. Pull and Throw make finishing off enemies easier.

So far, I'm finding the biotics in ME2 reasonable, but they definitely take a back seat to the gunplay. Losing AR use in ME 1 wasn't that big of a deal. It is in ME 2.

This is actually part of the problem really.
SMG's are awful.  I really, pretty much never use it., its so bad.  T1 pistol is decent.   Good accuracy.   I had an issue where I couldn't get more then 6/18 ammo for it.  Then suddenly I had  8/64 or so.  not sure what was up with that.
t2 pistol is also at 8/19.  Limited ammo.
The smg has terrible accuracy.  Requireing short range.  Short range and adept do not play well. (barrier or fort would help with this.)   And even then, the dps is still awful fully  upgraded.  I am pretty sure an upgraded pistol will burn through shields faster with you rapid firing, then the smg does at point blank.
And then, might as just well use one of the heavy weapons over the smg anyway.

I'm not sure what the "best 3rd" weapon is for adepts.  I took sniper rifle.  Assualt rifle would probably have been a better choice.   That would have been vastly superiour in taking out shields then the smg.

I fail to see how/why anyone would use pull if not for giggles.  Anything that is red is pretty much 1 shotable by heavy warp+biotic boosts. And if you really want something to stop a charging krogun, etc.  Shockwave does that.

[BanditGR]

kappukiino wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

Seriously, you can only use them on enemies once they have no armor or shields? All enemies die very quickly once you remove their armor and shields, the time it takes a biotic power to get there you could just shoot them once or twice more.

I expected biotics to be fun this time around, not even needing to use weapons and such, especially after the trailers. I mean I could understand not being able to pull+throw to instakill a boss or large mech, but every single enemy in the game? Oh well, time to reroll soldier/infiltrator, seems like they intended everyone to use ammo and tech powers only.

Are you serious? Useless?

Im a vanguard and i always have someone else with biotic and one or two with some tech talents with me and i assure you, biotics do most of the work in disabling and killing the enemies.

You being able to lift a fully armored and shielded person up in the air would be biotics overpowered, u could basicly spam biotics and shoot him and he'd be helpless...

Imo it makes sense that shields somehow absorb some of the biotics, if this wasnt the case, they'd be far too overpowered.

But imo biotics are far better than in ME1 and theyre absolutely great in many ways


And to the guy above me, i love to mess with them like that, lift them up, burn and send them flying with throw, its epic.

Painfully obvious that so many people either don't play on anything higher than Veteran (especially insanity), or have somehow convinced themselves that being a Warp/Reave bot (with a tiny flavor of singularity here and there) is what biotics is all about.

Modifié par BanditGR, 01 février 2010 - 04:54 .

[Selvec_Darkon]

All I have to say on this matter is "BOOM!". Biotic user's know what I'm talking about.

[Comprehension]

WillieStyle wrote...

An Adept or Vanguard could simply spam Barrier and stay out in the open tanking every enemy on screen with impunity.

You must not have played on Insanity, then. Enemies can easily take down your Master Barrier buffed from the Bastion Specialization on Insanity.

[noru18]

Rebalance:
Make biotics work on targets with shield/barrior/armor.
Give shield/barrior/armor chances to ward off biotics.
So you may be able to pull/throw a fully protected target, but chances are not as high as those without protections.

Modifié par noru18, 01 février 2010 - 05:20 .

[MGIII]

BanditGR wrote...

kappukiino wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

Seriously, you can only use them on enemies once they have no armor or shields? All enemies die very quickly once you remove their armor and shields, the time it takes a biotic power to get there you could just shoot them once or twice more.

I expected biotics to be fun this time around, not even needing to use weapons and such, especially after the trailers. I mean I could understand not being able to pull+throw to instakill a boss or large mech, but every single enemy in the game? Oh well, time to reroll soldier/infiltrator, seems like they intended everyone to use ammo and tech powers only.

Are you serious? Useless?

Im a vanguard and i always have someone else with biotic and one or two with some tech talents with me and i assure you, biotics do most of the work in disabling and killing the enemies.

You being able to lift a fully armored and shielded person up in the air would be biotics overpowered, u could basicly spam biotics and shoot him and he'd be helpless...

Imo it makes sense that shields somehow absorb some of the biotics, if this wasnt the case, they'd be far too overpowered.

But imo biotics are far better than in ME1 and theyre absolutely great in many ways


And to the guy above me, i love to mess with them like that, lift them up, burn and send them flying with throw, its epic.

Painfully obvious that so many people either don't play on anything higher than Veteran (especially insanity), or have somehow convinced themselves that being a Warp/Reave bot (with a tiny flavor of singularity here and there) is what biotics is all about.

If all you're doing on Insanity is Warp/Reaving, you're doing it wrong.

[Hizoka003]

you know i tried changing the .ini file just to take the powers off the shared cooldown and in doing so it made the game no longer startup anyone know why that is?


i changed the "true" to "false like it was stated before but the game will no longer start... i am cool with he biotics not working on shield and what not but i kinda like to have them not all shared on the cooldown

Modifié par Hizoka003, 01 février 2010 - 05:35 .

[Justin_iZ_Here]

after beating the game with a soldier...adepts are so useless, i tryed to use one got to lvl 15 before i gave up. i mean i loved to use biotics in ME1 but in ME2 its just a waste of time when i could just shoot them 2 times and move on. i still have yet to understand why armor or shields stop biotics? did something occur in the 2 years you were out?

[_KTA_]

I think this thread means to say Biotics are not ridiculously overpowered like ME1... I think this game is balanced much better. I found myself depending on biotics & overloads often.

[eighteesix]

my sentinel is a lot of fun, keeps the game challenging when finding an enemy with a shield/armor/barrier. biotics are not worthless. they are fun.