1428 réponses à ce sujet

[RyuKazuha]

I think you should even on in insanity reap through every enemy with your biotics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! o_@





Seriously. You complain because you've actually to use tactics to get the job done on harder difficulties? What the hell? There's a frickin' reason why hardcore is scaled ABOVE normal.It's actually meant to force you into using your brains.



You don't have a team with you to play cards, keep them alive and make use of their abillities, that's the whole point. If you have a biotic, take two team members with overload and you'll have no problem. As a soldier take soe biotics with you to tear down armor without problems and as a tech, get yourself some soldiers to cover you up while your cooldown ticks.

[Graunt]

RyuKazuha wrote...

I think you should even on in insanity reap through every enemy with your biotics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! o_@


Seriously. You complain because you've actually to use tactics to get the job done on harder difficulties? What the hell? There's a frickin' reason why hardcore is scaled ABOVE normal.It's actually meant to force you into using your brains.

You don't have a team with you to play cards, keep them alive and make use of their abillities, that's the whole point. If you have a biotic, take two team members with overload and you'll have no problem. As a soldier take soe biotics with you to tear down armor without problems and as a tech, get yourself some soldiers to cover you up while your cooldown ticks.

There's no "tactics" involved.  Enough of the "you guys are just lazy/dumb cuz u has no tactics skillz".  How is hitting one ability 90% of the time and only that ability tactical?  It's a REQUIREMENT and a complete lack of choice.  And you've obviously never played on Insanity.  You can't just bring two people with overload since overload does jack against armor and 70% of the enemies have not only barrier or shields but armor as well.

So basically this is all about Adepts being able to use all their
biotics on all kinds of enemies and defenses. The logical conclusion
would be to let Engis hack non mechanical units, overload Barriers ...
as well.

Specialized classes are boring anyway. At the beginning
of the game the player should be asked if he'd prefer to spam biotics,
techpowers or just shoot b*tches for the rest of the game.

Further on team mates should be removed, they tend to get in the way of spamming stuff and remind me of nerdy mmorpgs.

Your consolitis is showing.  Also, you make a horrible comparison with the AI hacking.  How is hacking a mechanical object the same as mind control on a biological one?  So now you're suggesting all organic life is the same as synthetic life?  Explain to me how something that has a shield or barrier is going to be able to prevent themselves from being lifted or thrown.  If you want to say "well the new shields have mass effect altering capabilities to deflect any biotic thrown" then ok maybe, but try explaining armor preventing it.  It wouldn't.  Shields and barriers also wouldn't really prevent a biotic from dropping a giant crate on top of them either.

Since you think it doesn't make any sense to allow a biotic to use...you know, biotics, how about you take away all but one weapon on your Soldier and let me know how that works out for you.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 12:14 .

[Adamzen]

Well every skill should be useful in a specific situation. The reason why this might not be the case is the level design not the class mechanics itself.

And the fact that you are "forced" to use 1-2 skills 90% of the time when playing on the hardest difficulty settings is nothing uncommon in other games (flashheal priests in wow, aircombo in gow challenges etc) as well. In order to be successful you have to use your ressources in the most efficent way possible and if that means using warp over throw most of the time it's due to level design.

[Adamzen]

Graunt wrote...

Explain to me how something that has a shield or barrier is going to be able to prevent themselves from being lifted or thrown.  If you want to say "well the new shields have mass effect altering capabilities to deflect any biotic thrown" then ok maybe, but try explaining armor preventing it.  It wouldn't.

You know how biotics work manipulating the MASS of objects...yeah?

Modifié par Adamzen, 02 février 2010 - 12:30 .

[flamingdts]

Adamzen wrote...

Well every skill should be useful in a specific situation. The reason why this might not be the case is the level design not the class mechanics itself.
And the fact that you are "forced" to use 1-2 skills 90% of the time when playing on the hardest difficulty settings is nothing uncommon in other games (flashheal priests in wow, aircombo in gow challenges etc) as well. In order to be successful you have to use your ressources in the most efficent way possible and if that means using warp over throw most of the time it's due to level design.

There is a huge difference between using a skill more commonly than others and using it almost every single time around. 

This game is barely an RPG, with much fewer skills in comparison with Mass Effect. You know what this is supposed to mean? The fewer the skills, the more important each skill is. Hence the more usage of each skill. This is not the case, most of the other skills are rendered useless and you use one skill every time around. 

Still, in games like WoW, you may use a skill 90% of the time, but you use ALOT of skills anyways. Unlike Mass Effec 2, you don't spam one skill in one whole battle. Imagine if you were playing an FPS game and in the hardest difficulty, you're only allowed to use a pistol. Yes it makes the game more challenging, but it also makes it stupidly restrictive. 

Adamzen wrote...

You know how biotics work manipulating the MASS of objects...yeah?

Point being ....... you can't apply mass manipulating skills on them?

Modifié par flamingdts, 02 février 2010 - 12:35 .

[Graunt]

Adamzen wrote...

Well every skill should be useful in a specific situation. The reason why this might not be the case is the level design not the class mechanics itself.
And the fact that you are "forced" to use 1-2 skills 90% of the time when playing on the hardest difficulty settings is nothing uncommon in other games (flashheal priests in wow, aircombo in gow challenges etc) as well. In order to be successful you have to use your ressources in the most efficent way possible and if that means using warp over throw most of the time it's due to level design.

Most people that are annoying by the change probably wouldn't really care as much if not for the simple fact that it goes backwards from how biotics were in ME and over does any "fixes" by too much of a large degree.  Look at the infiltrator for example, it was already one of the strongest classes in ME and is just as capable in this one especially on the harder difficulties and you don't NEED biotics at all.  All you need is disruptor bullets and armor piercing bullets (bonus or Garrus rank 4).  Guess what?  With this class its as simple as toggling two different ammos but it changes absolutely nothing about how you PLAY the class, where as the biotic change is completely game altering.

You know how biotics work manipulating the MASS of objects...yeah?

The only relevant thing here is newtons.  If you're able to apply more newtons than what something can stop, then the biotic would bypass any defenses.  This is especially true when it comes to armor, where about the only "realistic" restriction would be on something like a heavy mech.  It does kind of make sense that you can't simply lift up something weighing 5x as much as the force of what your biotic is capable of, but most humanoid sized creatures are not going to be wearing armor so heavy that it triples their weight.  If you can lft a non armored Krogan, you can lift a human or small mech in armor.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 12:43 .

[Adamzen]

I wouldn't say the other skills are completely useless. Now and then there are some situations to use other powers than warp. Dealing with trash husks by lifting for example, pushing a frozen target, ...

[Adamzen]

flamingdts wrote...

Point being ....... you can't apply mass manipulating skills on them?

If they have "to much" mass then no. Otherwise Adepts wouldn't have any problems lifting a whole space station, would they?

[flamingdts]

Adamzen wrote...

I wouldn't say the other skills are completely useless. Now and then there are some situations to use other powers than warp. Dealing with trash husks by lifting for example, pushing a frozen target, ...

Yep, I sure love the using my Vanguard skills on 5% of the enemies. 

Adamzen wrote...

If they have "to much" mass then no. Otherwise Adepts wouldn't have any problems lifting a whole space station, would they?

And? Techs can hack Geth in the game. That should mean they have no problem hacking the entire Geth army right? I'm using a similar example to yours, and I'm pointing out the fallacy in your logic.  

Modifié par flamingdts, 02 février 2010 - 12:47 .

[Graunt]

Adamzen wrote...

flamingdts wrote...

Point being ....... you can't apply mass manipulating skills on them?

If they have "to much" mass then no. Otherwise Adepts wouldn't have any problems lifting a whole space station, would they?

Read my last post, and you're presenting extreme examples that don't really fit with the issue.

Yep, I sure love the using my Vanguard skills on 5% of the enemies.

I'm playing on the PC and am using the biotic tweak in the INI file.  That's not really what the Vanguard's biggest problem is though, because even when I can use my abilities against shields etc they are still a poor man's Adept in every possible way.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 12:48 .

[flamingdts]

Graunt wrote...

I'm playing on the PC and am using the biotic tweak in the INI file.  That's not really what the Vanguard's biggest problem is though.

Vanguard suffers more in some aspects. The charge is almost completely useless. I mean the idea itself is already pretty weak even when used on any armored enemies, and the enemies are actually armored......

It fares a little better in gun to gun battles though. 

[Adamzen]

flamingdts wrote...

And? Techs can hack Geth in the game. That should mean they have no problem hacking the entire Geth army right? I'm using a similar example to yours, and I'm pointing out the fallacy in your logic.  

Sure whatever makes you feel better

[Graunt]

Adamzen wrote...

flamingdts wrote...

And? Techs can hack Geth in the game. That should mean they have no problem hacking the entire Geth army right? I'm using a similar example to yours, and I'm pointing out the fallacy in your logic.  

Sure whatever makes you feel better

No, he's actually giving a sound argument and your rebuttal is beyond flimsy because you have nothing.

Vanguard suffers more in some aspects. The charge is almost completely
useless. I mean the idea itself is already pretty weak even when used
on any armored enemies, and the enemies are actually armored......

This is why I said it's the poor man's Adept.  Most of the time you end up using everything an Adept would use other than Singularity and rarely ever get to use your class defining ability.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 12:56 .

[flamingdts]

Adamzen wrote...

Sure whatever makes you feel better

Don't make this a flame thread. If you can't find a point to refute on don't say anything at all. 

[Adamzen]

Graunt wrote...

Adamzen wrote...

flamingdts wrote...

And? Techs can hack Geth in the game. That should mean they have no problem hacking the entire Geth army right? I'm using a similar example to yours, and I'm pointing out the fallacy in your logic.  

Sure whatever makes you feel better

No, he's actually giving a sound argument and your rebuttal is beyond flimsy because you have nothing.

Yeah u got me...i have nothing. 
It's not like i don't have the nerve to argue with someone who has no clue of the in game lore

By the way google the meaning of "arguments" and "logical construction"

[Graunt]

Adamzen wrote...
Yeah u got me...i have nothing. 
It's not like i don't have the nerve to argue with someone who has no clue of the in game lore

By the way google the meaning of "arguments" and "logical construction"

Really took you this long to google something to reply with?  Stop posting about this topic until you can actually form thoughts of your own that make sense.  And you obviously have no idea about the "in game lore" either if you're trying to use that as your only evidence if you played the first game.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 février 2010 - 01:03 .

[Adamzen]

You rly have me figured out.
But i'd rather not have some crybabies tell me where i may or may not post my thoughts. I mean i have to be exposed to your "thoughts" as well

Modifié par Adamzen, 02 février 2010 - 01:10 .

[flamingdts]

Adamzen wrote...

Yeah u got me...i have nothing. 
It's not like i don't have the nerve to argue with someone who has no clue of the in game lore

By the way google the meaning of "arguments" and "logical construction"

Why do you insist on making this a flame thread? 

I'll objectively show you why there is a flaw in your logic. 

Biotics manipulated mass, which technically means with enough biotics, they might be able to lift a very very large object. However, Biotics are rare in almost all races besides the Asari. 

On the other hand, Techs can hack Geth. Which technically means with enough techs, they might be able to hack an entire army of Geth. In this case, Techs are not as rare. They can be trained, unlike Biotics, who require both training and natural biotic potential. 

So yes I'm very clear with the game's lore, but what I don't understand is how it becomes impossible to lift enemies with Shields and armor. Once they're taken off in battle, they're a piece of cake to lift, so why can't we even knock them off balance when they have their shields or armor on? The only possibility is if the piece of armor weighs twice as much as their own weight.

Modifié par flamingdts, 02 février 2010 - 01:12 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

Wow. So many bad players here.

Adepts are fine on higher difficulties. They provide the best CC in the game and the more difficult enemies are, the better CC gets. This means that their superior CC has to be countered by something. This comes in the form of armor and shields/barriers that counters their CC until it can be brought down.

Adepts are weak only in the beginning of any given fight. Once the battle is under way and defenses start getting brought down, they own everything without those enemies even being able to attack them back. It's called Balance and Tactics.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 02 février 2010 - 01:14 .

[Adamzen]

flamingdts wrote...

Adamzen wrote...

Yeah u got me...i have nothing. 
It's not like i don't have the nerve to argue with someone who has no clue of the in game lore

By the way google the meaning of "arguments" and "logical construction"

Why do you insist on making this a flame thread? 

I'll objectively show you why there is a flaw in your logic. 

Biotics manipulated mass, which technically means with enough biotics, they might be able to lift a very very large object. However, Biotics are rare in almost all races besides the Asari. 

On the other hand, Techs can hack Geth. Which technically means with enough techs, they might be able to hack an entire army of Geth. In this case, Techs are not as rare. They can be trained, unlike Biotics, who require both training and natural biotic potential. 

So yes I'm very clear with the game's lore, but what I don't understand is how it becomes impossible to lift enemies with Shields and armor. Once they're taken off in battle, they're a piece of cake to lift, so why can't we even knock them off balance when they have their shields or armor on? The only possibility is if the piece of armor weighs twice as much as their own weight.

1) You can hack a whole army of synthetics (veetor)
2) geth = not normal secure bots ( collective consciousness/ AI)

[Sidney]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

The ammo is a problem but biotics pretty much have no effect till the shield is down anyway and once the shield is down then it takes a max of two shots with a sniper rifle on pretty much any enemy to take them down.

This is so much my issues. Once I've de-shielded something I don't NEED to use fancy powers on them. My gun will do nicely. It means that Biotics move from being co-parttners with guns (in ME1 I'd use both about equally) to something that I use as an after thought because, well, I have Biotics and I feel like I should use them at some point.

[flamingdts]

Adamzen wrote...


1) You can hack a whole army of synthetics (veetor)
2) geth = not normal secure bots ( collective consciousness/ AI)

Geths can still be hacked in the game. Whiles on the other hand, Biotics cannot even move an enemy when they have shield or armor on. It's imbalance and it's against the lore. I would have no problem if Bioware bothered to make slight adjustments, such as the health to armor/shield ratio.... 

[Laughing_Man]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Wow. So many bad players here.

Adepts are fine on higher difficulties. They provide the best CC in the game and the more difficult enemies are, the better CC gets. This means that their superior CC has to be countered by something. This comes in the form of armor and shields/barriers that counters their CC until it can be brought down.

Adepts are weak only in the beginning of any given fight. Once the battle is under way and defenses start getting brought down, they own everything without those enemies even being able to attack them back. It's called Balance and Tactics.

Yeah, don't bother to read.
i lost count of how many times people clarified in this thread that the point is not the difficulty,
but rather other things, like fun, lore \\ canon \\ logic, and variety VS. spamming the same power or 2 all the time.

[BanditGR]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Wow. So many bad players here.

Adepts are fine on higher difficulties. They provide the best CC in the game and the more difficult enemies are, the better CC gets. This means that their superior CC has to be countered by something. This comes in the form of armor and shields/barriers that counters their CC until it can be brought down.

Wow. Another player that has no idea what this thread is about.

Adepts are weak only in the beginning of any given fight. Once the battle is under way and defenses start getting brought down, they own everything without those enemies even being able to attack them back. It's called Balance and Tactics.

Don't look now but you are contradicting yourself. First you claim that Adepts provide the best CC in the game but look ! They are actually "weak in the beginning of any given fight", because wow, they can't use that great CC and by the time they are able to, CC isn't really needed (with a few glaring exceptions, eg husks). So aye, it's great a have the best CC in the game that you can only use as a finishing move, when it doesn't really matter. Why call it "crowd control" at all ?

Modifié par BanditGR, 02 février 2010 - 02:04 .

[jmark22]

First let me say that I agree with you about how biotics not working against armor is cheap. (Although, in ME1 didn't some armors provide you with some level of protection against tech / biotics?)



However, I think if you changed the game as it is to allow you to use biotics against armored targets, it would be totally unbalanced. You would have to significantly increase cooldown times and because of that you would have to have individual cooldown for each power (like how it worked in ME1). Otherwise, I would just spam 'Pull' every 3 seconds and the fight would be over (my first playthrough was as a Vanguard on veteran difficulty, btw). It would also be very boring.



Overall, I think combat is greatly improved over ME1. I do think that some more thought should have been put into balancing biotic powers and keeping them true to Mass Effect lore.