1428 réponses à ce sujet

[BusterPoindexter]

Giantevilhead wrote...

BusterPoindexter wrote...

For people who know, Is the adept fun, and can you manhandle people on normal?
Also, with biotics being useless on harder levels do you all refer to the fact that there are more people with shields and that makes the biotics useless or do biotics work against shielded enemys on normal and not on the higher levels?

Biotics are fun on normal when enemies don't have a lot of armor or shields.

The problem with the Adept is that on harder difficulties, enemies all have shields/armor/biotic barrier and 90% of their hit points comes from those. Since Pull, Throw, and Shockwave only work when shields/armor/biotic barrier are down, they're only useful for about 10% of the battle.

Thanks.  Then i can understand how that can be infuriating for the people who want more of a challenge.  It sounds like an obvious time issue, because i can't imagine it to be stupidity on biowares part.  Come to think of it,  Which is worse?

[Hoffburger]

RedShft wrote...

I am currently playing the game through on hardcore as an adept. I do not have any problems so far. The only difference that I have seen is that when playing an adept you must pick your squad members more carefully because if you don't have someone with overload it will make some fights more of a hassle then they should be.

Biotics weren't the only power changed in ME2, there are several other tech powers that can only be used when the opponent does not have any armor or shields (such as AI hacking). In addition, there are powers that cannot be used when the opponent has shields and are most effective on armor (incinerate).

Everyone who is complaining about biotics in ME2 are just upset that they can't run through the game on insanity and control a full room of enemies with singularity, lift, stasis etc. Get over it, ME2 is more tactical and less mindless.

Thanks for the laugh. Where do these people come from?

[Hoffburger]

tonnactus wrote...

Murmillos wrote...

The game play is boiling down to one thing.  Warp and Reave.  Why use CC if they are dead in two shots after already spending all that time stripping down their protection?

This is a little exaggeration...
Two shots???


The infiltrator has some hard time...

1. That Infiltrator is low level obviously and has the basic weapons.

2. The person playing said Infiltrator sucks balls.

3. Related to 2: You want to max out Incinerate first as an Infiltrator because Sniper Rifles don't shine till you at least get the +50% armor damage and +50% headshot damage. Then once you get the Widow it's even more ridiculous. Like 2 shotting Scions ridiculous.

[imemoria]

the saddest thing is that even christina norman have no other answer than "I finished insanity 2 times with an adept". she's trying her best not to understand the very purpose of this thread or is this some sort of communication strategy ?

[tonnactus]

Hoffburger wrote...

This is a little exaggeration...
Two shots???


The infiltrator has some hard time...



1. That Infiltrator is low level obviously and has the basic weapons.

This is always easy to write.
That this person just suck.
Upload something of your playthrough so people could see if you did it better.
Yes,the infiltrator is low level.Everyone is when starting this game,except if someone did a new game+.
So no one just take down the health of the enemies in 1-2 shots for the biggest part of the game.

 You want to max out Incinerate first as an Infiltrator because Sniper Rifles don't shine till you at least get the +50% armor damage and +50% headshot damage. Then once you get the Widow it's even more ridiculous. Like 2 shotting Scions ridiculous.

But the adept doesnt get those big weapon damage bonuses and he didnt get the widow.So i really doubt that the adept finish of enemies with just 1-2 shots.Also,there arent so much sniper ammo.

[Hoffburger]

tonnactus wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

This is a little exaggeration...
Two shots???


The infiltrator has some hard time...



1. That Infiltrator is low level obviously and has the basic weapons.

This is always easy to write.
That this person just suck.
Upload something of your playthrough so people could see if you did it better.
Yes,the infiltrator is low level.Everyone is when starting this game,except if someone did a new game+.
So no one just take down the health of the enemies in 1-2 shots for the biggest part of the game.

 You want to max out Incinerate first as an Infiltrator because Sniper Rifles don't shine till you at least get the +50% armor damage and +50% headshot damage. Then once you get the Widow it's even more ridiculous. Like 2 shotting Scions ridiculous.

But the adept doesnt get those big weapon damage bonuses and he didnt get the widow.So i really doubt that the adept finish of enemies with just 1-2 shots.Also,there arent so much sniper ammo.

Adepts only miss out on the +15% damage bonus that Infiltrators get due to their passive. An Adept with the Viper and the +50% headshot damage upgrade will 2-3 shot enemies. An Adept will 1 shot enemies with the regular sniper for sure.

I have streamed both my Adept Insanity playthrough and my Infiltrator Insanity playthrough, but that isn't even necessary to see that he's not the best. He takes way too long to line up shots, he misses way too much, he uses the SMG vs. non-shielded enemies, he never uses Incinerate, he never gets the damage bonus for cloak because he aims too slowly, he never shoots the pyro canisters, he only gets headshots on non moving enemies after spending an eternity lining them up, he doesn't use cloak to get away from a charging krogan, do I need to keep going?

[Catlana]

imemoria wrote...

the saddest thing is that even christina norman have no other answer than "I finished insanity 2 times with an adept". she's trying her best not to understand the very purpose of this thread or is this some sort of communication strategy ?

I do not think the Devs realize that players who play Adepts / Vanguards want to use their powers not be forced into constantly using the guns 85% of the time. The playstyle of these two classes radically changed from the original Mass Effect. Alot of players liked the old playstyle which is just not availible in ME2.

[grumpymooselion]

As for the suggestion to play Adepts like other classes . . .

At that point, why not play a different class entirely? I mean the result is still that you don't get to use your biotics as much. Biotics is the entire point to playing an Adept, and I find suggestions to playing an Adept better that completely or partially discount use of their powers absolutely . . . confounding.

Catlana wrote...

imemoria wrote...

the
saddest thing is that even christina norman have no other answer than
"I finished insanity 2 times with an adept". she's trying her best not
to understand the very purpose of this thread or is this some sort of
communication strategy ?

I do not think the Devs realize
that players who play Adepts / Vanguards want to use their powers not
be forced into constantly using the guns 85% of the time. The playstyle
of these two classes radically changed from the original Mass Effect.
Alot of players liked the old playstyle which is just not availible in
ME2.

Why would it surprise them? Their advertisement for the Adept was the idea of a class that could rely on their Biotics to come out of a confrontation victorious without ever firing a shot.

Modifié par Janan Pacha, 02 février 2010 - 11:35 .

[Hoffburger]

Janan Pacha wrote...

As for the suggestion to play Adepts like other classes . . .

At that point, why not play a different class entirely? I mean the result is still that you don't get to use your biotics as much. Biotics is the entire point to playing an Adept, and I find suggestions to playing an Adept better that completely or partially discount use of their powers absolutely . . . confounding.

Catlana wrote...

imemoria wrote...

the
saddest thing is that even christina norman have no other answer than
"I finished insanity 2 times with an adept". she's trying her best not
to understand the very purpose of this thread or is this some sort of
communication strategy ?

I do not think the Devs realize
that players who play Adepts / Vanguards want to use their powers not
be forced into constantly using the guns 85% of the time. The playstyle
of these two classes radically changed from the original Mass Effect.
Alot of players liked the old playstyle which is just not availible in
ME2.

Why would it surprise them? Their advertisement for the Adept was the idea of a class that could rely on their Biotics to come out of a confrontation victorious without ever firing a shot.

They are right, they just neglected to mention that you do it by spamming Warp. It's like that commercial where the guy lets the girl ride the bike for free, but only in the 2x4 box.

Modifié par Hoffburger, 02 février 2010 - 11:44 .

[Catlana]

Janan Pacha wrote...

As for the suggestion to play Adepts like other classes . . .

At that point, why not play a different class entirely? I mean the result is still that you don't get to use your biotics as much. Biotics is the entire point to playing an Adept, and I find suggestions to playing an Adept better that completely or partially discount use of their powers absolutely . . . confounding.

Catlana wrote...

imemoria wrote...

the
saddest thing is that even christina norman have no other answer than
"I finished insanity 2 times with an adept". she's trying her best not
to understand the very purpose of this thread or is this some sort of
communication strategy ?

I do not think the Devs realize
that players who play Adepts / Vanguards want to use their powers not
be forced into constantly using the guns 85% of the time. The playstyle
of these two classes radically changed from the original Mass Effect.
Alot of players liked the old playstyle which is just not availible in
ME2.

Why would it surprise them? Their advertisement for the Adept was the idea of a class that could rely on their Biotics to come out of a confrontation victorious without ever firing a shot.

Well, that definitely is not true (okay, you can spam warp). Of course, I did not watch very many ads for the game.  

Powers feel tacked on atm. Hell, the most powerful human adept gets a ammo ability for their unlock. The game is very much centered around the use of guns atm.  

Modifié par Catlana, 02 février 2010 - 11:46 .

[Mikey_205]

Christina Norman:



"No-one is better at controlling the battlefield than an Adept and no-one is better at killing enemies without firing a shot!"

[Chclve]

MasterAlric wrote...

Those 4 points sound good, but I would make a few adjustments :

1. Barriers should completly prevent the use of biotics except for warp. It makes sense cause a biotic user could increase its own mass to prevent from being lifted. Warp damage should be trimed down against barrier (say 1/4)

2. Biotic attacks that damage the target through mouvment (Slam, Singularity, Throw...) should bypass armor and damage health directly BUT only half the newtons/duration should be applied (considering the target is heavier due to armor). If a target's health reaches zero, he/she/it dies even if his armor is not completely depleted (that makes sense).

3. Warp should damage both health and armor at the same time. Only half damage to health if armor on.

4. For vangards : weapons should deal A LOT more damage to both armor and barrier when in very short range (Like one or two shotgun blast completly removing armor). That would give their charge power a huge (and required) boost in hardcore/insanity.

That would enable a lot more tactics in combat :

1. Biotics can crow control every targets except other biotic users (until their barrier is over).

2. Biotic attacks can kill even the armored enemy but that should be made pretty difficult : e.g. when using pull/throw combo, you will have to deal with a very short time frame between the end of the half-duration pull and power cooldown.

3. Biotic users can choose to deplet armor with bullets before using their powers to full extent... or use them right away with lesser effect.

If Bioware made this happen I would be one happy camper 

[Mikey_205]

1.) Buff HP levels of enemies and keep shields and armour the same or slightly reduced



2.) Make a couple of biotics cut through defenses like Push

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Mikey_205 wrote...

"No-one is better at controlling the battlefield than an Adept and no-one is better at killing enemies without firing a shot!"

Yes, the adept does not seem to play as advertised, eh? At least not on higher difficulties where everything has 1-2 layers of protection before an adept's biotics (except for warp) can do anything.

I think the length of this thread and the additional threads that have been made about the topic show a lot of people are not satisfied with warp spam. Whether or not the developers will do anything about it is another question.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 03 février 2010 - 12:00 .

[Palathas]

I tried going through Insane difficulty last night with an Adept and early on it's quite tough but I took Reave and now stick with Garrus and Miranda, both with Overload. I get them to destroy enemy shields if there and when an enemy has no shields I hit them with Reave and either follow it up with Warp, this makes Reave detonate for more damage, or get Miranda to do it.

Modifié par Palathas, 03 février 2010 - 12:04 .

[MBirkhofer]

We've been over this now many times.



Let me try to make it simeple.



You watch all the cgi of Samara flying around, throwing people around. Jack charging up fists and 1 shoting mechs. Everyone talks about uber biotics.



And what do you do when you play? hide behind a crate and plick people off with warp.

4 out of an adepts 5 skills are basically useless. And worst of all, they are also the coolest and most class iconic abilities. Cry op all you want. But people created adepts to throw people around like rag dolls. It is fun.

Why you would ever intentionally make a game less fun is beyond me. And frankly, it can be balanced. Throw has weight values attached to it. Simply tie these into the various levels of defenses, so higher ranks are required to throw more defended targets.



And while we are complaining, how come everyone talks to my character as if I'm a soldier?

[Murmillos]

Mikey_205 wrote...

Christina Norman:

"No-one is better at controlling the battlefield than an Adept and no-one is better at killing enemies without firing a shot!"

If you listen really really closely, you can hear the lawyer in the background quickly go "Offer limited only to Normal gameplay!"


Edit: I just wanted to high light that word.. "controlling"  Really Christina... really?

I think my Engineer has a better time controlling the battlefield with my tech drone then with any of the biotic powers on difficulties Hardcore/Insanity.  At least the Tech Drone DISTRACTS the enemy and removes them from cover long enough for my squadmates to shoot and kill them.

Modifié par Murmillos, 03 février 2010 - 12:08 .

[Giantevilhead]

They could just make it so that shield/armor/biotic barrier don't offer 100% protection against certain powers.



Just make it so that Throw can still knock down a shielded/armored enemy on their ass for a few seconds without damaging them so that you at least get some breathing room to finish off his friends.



Make it so that pull just lifts a shielded/armored enemy over cover instead of making them float.



Make it so that Cryo slows enemies by a certain percentage based on how much shield/armor they have.



Make it so that AI hack stuns shielded/armored mechs for a few seconds.

[CatatonicMan]

MBirkhofer wrote...

And while we are complaining, how come everyone talks to my character as if I'm a soldier?

Kinda off topic, but I wondered this too. They never make any reference to what class and/or abilities you have. There are so many places where one class should logically be able to say/do something different that another class, but they are noticeably absent. What gives?

[NineInchNall]

They actually made reference to it in ME1. Kaidan mentions that L2s spike higher than L3s, "except for you, Commander."

[Gerza71]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

So essentially Vanguard and Adept are pretty much worthless. I don't know about the Engineer side but the bot should come in handy.

I'm playing Vanguard and my bionics is very useful. All have to do is get rid of their bionics shields by shooting at it and finish them off by using bionics powers.

I notice in Mass Effect1 with my second play through using my soldier class Sheppard she is just about immune by bionics attacks because of the armour she wearing. That Black and Red one you get from after completing Bring Down The Sky as one of the rewards. What I look in the armour in the first game is three things. Is the damage, the shield and the bionics shielding. If there is no bionics sheilding comes with the armour, I will not wear it.

Remember that what you have your companions for. Have a balance in your team and you and your mates will rip through the enemy.

I'm playing normal though my first play through

[grumpymooselion]

Gerza71 wrote...

I'm playing normal though my first play through

Mhm.

[Mikey_205]

The reason references arent made to your class is probably because those things have diminishing returns. I'd quite like it though, class choice should be just as important as the background choices in ME were.

[BanditGR]

Mikey_205 wrote...

1.) Buff HP levels of enemies and keep shields and armour the same or slightly reduced

Exactly. Enemies need to have more health and less armor/shields on higher difficulties (since 90% of them are "defended" anyway) or make defenses slightly more susceptible to penetration abilities/ammo, in order to make "room" for more biotic abilities (with maybe the exception of bosses and heavy mechs). Another suggestion would be to allow non-penetration biotics on shielded enemies based on percentages (though it may prove to be a technical headache). In all honesty, there are so many simple things that could be done (after some sort of testing) that would add value to classes such as the Vanguard and Adept, on HC/Insanity. Right now, the class went from being almost godlike (see ME1) to warp/reave spammers/weak soldier copies, basically from one extreme situation to another. Some middle ground is always preferable.

[sillymonkboy]

Someone mentioned there's a difference between insanity-level biotics on PC vs XBox. What is the difference?