1428 réponses à ce sujet

[RedShft]

All I read from this thread is complaints because they actually have to rely on other squad members skills. This somehow degrades from gameplay because they actually have to coordinate attacks over several squad members.



The fact that individuals in this thread can't comprehend that higher difficulty levels are supposed to be more challenging than spamming singularity, throw, pull or whatever else you feel like using is sad.

[Ravenshrike]

MGIII wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

Thats why Miranda is the most useful party member. Apart from the eye candy she has the most useful powers and passive ability.

This, a thousand times. You can experiment if you want, but if you want to survive, you need Miranda around (unless you are an Adept or Sentinel).

Really? Cause Legion, Z, and an infiltrator works pretty damned well when kitted with dual widowmakers. Armor goes down so fast that shotty + shockwave completely ****s the enemies up.

[For Humanity]

RedShft wrote...

All I read from this thread is complaints because they actually have to rely on other squad members skills. This somehow degrades from gameplay because they actually have to coordinate attacks over several squad members.

The fact that individuals in this thread can't comprehend that higher difficulty levels are supposed to be more challenging than spamming singularity, throw, pull or whatever else you feel like using is sad.

I'm guessing you played a soldier or an infiltrator.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Soruyao wrote...

So, I finally started my insanity adept run through. I just finished the first place you fight collectors. (Name omitted for spoilers.)

At first I was struggling a little bit, and my first thought that warp being effective isn't necessarily the problem as much as it's long cooldown is. I felt really naked while recovering from a warp cooldown, and using it really was not fun. I realize that if I maxed it out, I'd be able to really blast people with it, and even kill them with a couple uses of it after

Basically, if you max out warp you can use it like a heavy weapon, but that's boring.

So I was curious about how well I could play without using it at all. The answer? So far, pretty well. I've been using abilities I have fun using and have only been using warp (and heavy weapons) on bosses/scions.  (Well okay, I do use a single warp on krogans sometimes, but that's it =o)

Here's the breakdown of how my fights have been going.

I switch garrus and zaeed to sniper rifles in cover on either side of me. (I try to find a nice safe place, ideally a high place with a balcony and only staircases to get in, but if not that then a long chest high wall.) I use garrus' overload or zaeed's grenades depending on whether the enemies have armor or shields. Then if nothing is naked yet, I help out with my SMG or heavy pistol to finish stripping something.

Then I hit that enemy with pull. Then I hit him with pull again. And again, until he floats into my sniper perch and he gets double noscoped. If the naked enemy is behind cover but near the edge, I flush him out with singularity and then use lift on him. If the enemy is behind cover where I can't curve a singularity close enough or if he's in a high place I can't reach, I hit him with shockwave, which usually flushes him out for the pull chain. (Shockwave is great because it ignores terrain completely! It goes through every kind of cover imaginable.)

Usually by this point something else has lost it's shields from my allies, so I do the same thing to drag someone else up to me. I find that (with my rank 2 warp) dragging someone up and having my enemies kill them is faster than warping them twice and waiting on the cooldowns.

What's more important, if I get rushed by a dog or krogan, I'm less likely to be caught in the middle of my cooldown, since pull has a much shorter one. This means I can react with a singularity in their face (which slows them down for a good 6 seconds) and retreat to safer cover, while zaeed or mordin burns off their armor. Coincidentally, rank 2 singularity stops an armored enemy for almost exactly as long as rank 2 cloak cloaks you. So if one enemy is on you, it's just as useful as an escape tool. (Then when I'm safe, I warp/use team skills, and shoot them in the face until the armor is down, then I use pull and let my team finish it off.)

Of course, the only time stuff gets close enough to me is when I have to use bad cover. (Really close to the enemy.) Usually I'm far enough away that any charging enemy is naked by the time they get to me, which means I can keep them CC'd till they get finished off.

Of course, if I'm somewhere with cliffs, I just throw them off once they're naked.

I will say that these strategies break down when my team dies, but then I just rez them, and I have yet to run out of medi-gel.  Even if I did run out, I could just pull stuff to me and melee it to death fairly quickly. 

I may kill things slowish compared to other classes, but I rarely die. (Most of my deaths were from a certain spot where two scions attack you in a square area where you can't get out of shockwave range, and I got through that with my collector beam and my heavy pistol.)

It's the ultimate "Low risk - low reward" strategy, and I never ever run out of ammo. In fact, I go through entire fights without firing a shot, sometimes, especially when there's cliffs around. (And once garrus has squad AP ammo, it'll be even better.

So I COULD spam warp and never do anything else if I maxed it out, but I don't have to, and I'm not struggling very much at all for not doing that. I'm having a lot of fun and not struggling much even on insanity. Slightly less optimal than an infiltrator, perhaps, but effective enough to get through insanity without stressing me out, and I would argue it's more effective than mindless warp spamming. (Or at least very similar!)

Oh and husk rushes are hilarious. I just stand in a singularity and melee their armor off.

Everyone who is whining that Adepts suck needs to learn from this guy.

Also, remember that depending on the Terrain, a single Throw or pull can instant kill anyone if you push them off the edge of a cliff. In parts of the game like recruiting Grunt, I got more kills doing this than any other way.

[Hoffburger]

The amount of morons in this thread is staggering. Please read the damn OP and at least a few posts before making asinine comments like the past 3-4. It's like a convention for high school dropouts in here and it's really starting to get annoying.



It was annoying before in an /ugh way, now it's just making me realize how stupid people really are and why I get paid so much to do my job.

[Ahglock]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...


Everyone who is whining that Adepts suck needs to learn from this guy.

Also, remember that depending on the Terrain, a single Throw or pull can instant kill anyone if you push them off the edge of a cliff. In parts of the game like recruiting Grunt, I got more kills doing this than any other way.

Really???

His strategy is hide until his teammates take care fo the armor and sheilds and then he can lift/ throw.  How exactly does that handle the problem that most of the fight is dealing with armor and shields and the health part is too short making the class less fun.  We all know we could lift and throw for our finishers.  The issue is a single warp would usually hadle it instead of 2 powers and a lift or more likely  a singularity and warp if you wont to be fancy.  The issue isn't that it is hard but that it is boring, and I don't really think his gimick changed that.  I can strip the shields with warp spam and or my teammates and then use the "fun powers" but it is somewhat pointless since there HP get chewed through so dang fast.  Sure there are mutliple ways to strip the shields and armor, but the HP are too small so the "fun powers" don't really get to shine. 

[SurfaceBeneath]

Ahglock wrote...
Really???

His strategy is hide until his teammates take care fo the armor and sheilds and then he can lift/ throw.

No, his strategy is to get teammates that help you strip enemy defenses so that you can use your powers to their highest efficiency. It's no different than when playing soldier picking team mates that are more biotic/tech focused to make use of those skills. If he is playing as Adept on insanity (and judging from his very well thought out post, he is), and is having a pretty easy time of it even without using Warp, then the people who are claiming to have all these difficulties are not valid... they just aren't doing it correctly.

And again, this is only one way to use an Adept. If you want to focus on Warp and Singularity, pick up assault rifle as a bonus skill and warp ammo as a talent and primarily play as a debuffer who can still throw down and do very respectable damage with a gun, you can do that as well and still play very decently.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 03 février 2010 - 06:32 .

[Soruyao]

Ahglock wrote...

Really???

His strategy is hide until his teammates take care fo the armor and sheilds and then he can lift/ throw.  How exactly does that handle the problem that most of the fight is dealing with armor and shields and the health part is too short making the class less fun.  We all know we could lift and throw for our finishers.  The issue is a single warp would usually hadle it instead of 2 powers and a lift or more likely  a singularity and warp if you wont to be fancy.  The issue isn't that it is hard but that it is boring, and I don't really think his gimick changed that.  I can strip the shields with warp spam and or my teammates and then use the "fun powers" but it is somewhat pointless since there HP get chewed through so dang fast.  Sure there are mutliple ways to strip the shields and armor, but the HP are too small so the "fun powers" don't really get to shine. 

Actually, my teammates were having a lot of trouble finishing people off.  They don't seem to have very good aim with the sniper rifles, and they struggle with people behind cover.  I've been focusing on making it easier for them to hit stuff, up to and including dragging enemies from max biotic range to pin the on the wall right next to them so that they can't possibly miss.   ;3

Honestly, the moment I realized I could chain pull, I started having fun with my adept, and I haven't had any real struggles that don't involve heavy mechs and scions.   There's something really satisfying about finally grabbing that guy and listening to him scream as he floats up into my fists.

As for warp being "just as useful", it has a really long cool down, so I could pull someone over to me and be focusing on grabbing someone else in the time I could have used a single warp.   Also, if something rushes me, I'm less likely to be caught inside my global cooldown if I'm using throw instead.

At rank 2, warp simply doesn't kill stuff as fast as people make it sound.   It takes me about 3-4 warps to kill a naked krogan, for instance.   It's so much faster (and MUCH safer) to just drag it up and let my team kill it.

The most important aspect of dragging something behind your cover is that you can hurt it without exposing yourself to it's allies crossfire.   You just step behind some tall cover or a building and keep pulling, and then you can kill something without being exposed at all.  It's kind of like a tiger dragging a kill back to it's lair.   

It's all about safety vs power.   Warp is powerful, but spamming it leaves you really vulnerable to getting rushed.

Modifié par Soruyao, 03 février 2010 - 07:17 .

[Xivai]

Wow, your description of the Adept sounds so phenomenal. Mine must be broken or something. Because I wish I could do all that amazing stuff, but it just so happens shooting them is faster. In an ironic way my team mates are dead accurate with snipers and lifting an enemy is pointless. Soon as they peek out from cover a head shot they go.



I would LIKE to use lift, but by the time my lift get's there the enemy has usually been shot in the head. That's sort of how it goes in this game. So I don't bother trying to do cool finishing moves. I just use warp. It's so much simpler, easier, and better than having to have like... a massive flow chart and hour long fight when not using warp.



I mean really. Flow chart? Or Warp snipe? I mean sure... they could both be put into flow chart representations. But Really. Pick target > Warp until dead > Repeat.



Or we could do this.



Pick Target> Singularity > Let squad members shoot target > warp until health is out > use pull or random power of your choice that isn't warp > promptly die a little inside as your ally decides it's the perfect time for a head shot > watch lift fizzle out > repeat.



I mean they both work... sure. No one is arguing that. We are debating that the system is boring, and uninspiring. For a game that claims to have taken massive strides in the combat department it somehow dropped the ball on Biotics.



Soldier Put Warp Ammo on > Adrenaline > pick target head of choice > pick other heads > No need to repeat until next battle.



You know? That might be the problem with Adepts. Out of all the classes they are the ones that have to repeat their abilities the most.

[Trefecka]

Yes pull and throw are awesome finishers. But the problem? By that point the enemies dead anyways.

To an adept, once the armor/shield/barrier is removed the enemy might as well be dead. So really it doesn't matter how you choose to finish them off afterwards. The biggest complaint about adepts is how they have to strip away all that protection.

Yes you could get teammates to do it for you. But team mates have it on a 12s cooldown vs your 6 s (from what I remember anyways.....). So as an adept you DO need a way to strip protection from the enemies, especially since your teammates can glitch up (not often...but if you rely on them you are absolutely screwed if it does happen).

Sure warp doesn't do awesome damage. But the adept doesn't have a choice BUT to max warp unless you want to be useless for 90% of the fight. With protection gone, the adept has so many ways to deal with the enemy that it doesn't matter. The "difficulty" that adepts face is getting to that point.

As an adept I find that rank 1 pull handles the yanking just fine. Sure throw could be a nice saftey net...but singularity works just as well, and does a better job of controlling an area.

So in essence, the biggest complaint about adepts is the fact that you NEED warp to effectively strip away all those armor/barrier/shields. Yes team mates can help, but since you can effectively cast the combined speed of BOTH of your teammates, leaving it all to them reduces your team effectiveness by at least 50%. After the protections removed? As most people have said, they might as well be dead. Just pick your preferred way to finish them.

And a final point:  Pull and throw are absolutely useless against the enemies that I have the most trouble with.  I'm not sure how you would handle YMIR mechs and scions without having warp....since you must have damn crazy skills if you can keep your teammates alive with those around.  My teammates just LOVE to stand in the way of YMIR gunfire and rockets, and scions just tear them up.  I usually either have to tuck my teammates in some far off corner so I can at least use their powers, or just let them die and take a big longer to kill them.

Modifié par Trefecka, 03 février 2010 - 07:52 .

[Gringbot]

my adept on insanity so far has been so beyond disappointing, especially because the adept trailer ruined my trousers. watching it again just now made me realize that the trailer wasnt really an accurate portrayal of the adept, unless you play on casual/veteran.



what the hell is the point of crowd control when it only works when your enemies are practically dead?!



every other class ive made on insanity has very little problems. the problem is with so many shields my tools get shaven down to warp and my gun. its just boring, not fun at all. just rely on teammates for the other shields? oh yea, i would if they werent always on cooldown. besides, i dont have to rely on my teammates so much when i play my other characters, that just screams "gimped".



hi, my name is MASS EFFECT, remember me? I have entire roomfuls of baddies flying around all over the place ALL THE TIME, and while my music is overall pretty mellow, it wont matter because all you will hear is HEAVY METAL MUSIC instead because of all the death and bodies flying everywhere.



was it overpowered? sure, but this isnt just a nerf were talking here, its a neuter. funny how the original games strongest class became the weakest. yes adepts and biotics in general needed balancing, but this is just completely overboard.



seriously though, my arsenal went from several very efficient attacks to just about 1, warp. and i dont even get any shield power unless i spend my extra one on it, which happens to have a 12 second cooldown, so basically i can protect myself at the cost of not being able attack for a total of 12 SECONDS, 10 with filled talents. im really just speechless.



the amount of flaws with the adept on insanity difficulty are staggering.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Trefecka wrote...

Yes pull and throw are awesome finishers. But the problem? By that point the enemies dead anyways.

They really aren't. Even on Insanity, most enemies still have more health than either shields or armor. Most junk enemies only have very superficial defense thats sole purpose is to keep them from being essentially DOA in the fight against a biotic but which go down in about 2 seconds or as soon as you use an ability that is strong against it. The difference between Adept and Soldier when the enemy's health hits red? The soldier has to get out of cover and finish the guy off while him and all his friends are shooting at him. Adept just pulls out of cover for half a second to use one move and the guy is completely toast and you're working on stripping the next guy's defenses so you can do it again to the next.

You can twist the battle all you want against the Adept's favor, the fact is that many people are playing Adept on Insanity (Including me) and having just as easy and fun a time as they did with any other class and we have learned how to use the Adept to its full potential. Period. And I'm not saying the Adept is even the most superior class overall in the game (I think that's a fight between Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Soldier). But Adepts are certainly not "useless" nor are they even moderately less effective than those three. Slightly maybe, but every RPG has balance issues of some kind.

So in essence, the biggest complaint about adepts is the fact that you
NEED warp to effectively strip away all those armor/barrier/shields.

The poster who gave such a detailed analysis indicated, no it's indeed possible to play an Adept very effectively without warp.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 03 février 2010 - 08:21 .

[Soruyao]

Trefecka wrote...

Yes pull and throw are awesome finishers. But the problem? By that point the enemies dead anyways.

To an adept, once the armor/shield/barrier is removed the enemy might as well be dead. So really it doesn't matter how you choose to finish them off afterwards. The biggest complaint about adepts is how they have to strip away all that protection.

Yes you could get teammates to do it for you. But team mates have it on a 12s cooldown vs your 6 s (from what I remember anyways.....). So as an adept you DO need a way to strip protection from the enemies, especially since your teammates can glitch up (not often...but if you rely on them you are absolutely screwed if it does happen).

Sure warp doesn't do awesome damage. But the adept doesn't have a choice BUT to max warp unless you want to be useless for 90% of the fight. With protection gone, the adept has so many ways to deal with the enemy that it doesn't matter. The "difficulty" that adepts face is getting to that point.

As an adept I find that rank 1 pull handles the yanking just fine. Sure throw could be a nice saftey net...but singularity works just as well, and does a better job of controlling an area.

So in essence, the biggest complaint about adepts is the fact that you NEED warp to effectively strip away all those armor/barrier/shields. Yes team mates can help, but since you can effectively cast the combined speed of BOTH of your teammates, leaving it all to them reduces your team effectiveness by at least 50%. After the protections removed? As most people have said, they might as well be dead. Just pick your preferred way to finish them.

And a final point:  Pull and throw are absolutely useless against the enemies that I have the most trouble with.  I'm not sure how you would handle YMIR mechs and scions without having warp....since you must have damn crazy skills if you can keep your teammates alive with those around.  My teammates just LOVE to stand in the way of YMIR gunfire and rockets, and scions just tear them up.  I usually either have to tuck my teammates in some far off corner so I can at least use their powers, or just let them die and take a big longer to kill them.

I haven't maxed warp, and I'm not having any issues.  Sure, my allies abilities are on long cooldowns, but they're fast enough that I'm never struggling to take down shields.  (Except for on ymir mechs, but running around a crate with a heavy weapon has been working great so far on my run through.   I had no struggle with my first praetorian, I just whittled him down with a collector rifle while running around this awesome square thing that had four high corners and a middle lower part I could hop over.  I don't understand what it was for, but it worked great as cover )

My heavy pistol has been filling the gap nicely, taking shields or barriers out before an enemy can even go back into cover, and I only have to use that every three or four enemy groups.

The only time I actually struggled was on a certain fight with four krogan that spawn around a ymir mech, but I finally just found some nice cover that the mech couldn't figure out how to get past, and incinerated/heavy weaponed/biotic'd the krogans until they were all dead, then finished the mech easily with warp and pistols.

So yes, I will agree that warp is the only biotic that's useful
against most bosses, but I'm not sure how you'd balance pull or
singularity. working on an ymir mech.  Besides, its not like the bosses in this game are hard.   That's what heavy weapons are for.

Modifié par Soruyao, 03 février 2010 - 08:25 .

[Cryo84]

This could all be fixed if they just re did the ratio of Armor etc to Health. More health, less armor and shields.

[Xivai]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Trefecka wrote...

Yes pull and throw are awesome finishers. But the problem? By that point the enemies dead anyways.

They really aren't. Even on Insanity, most enemies still have more health than either shields or armor. Most junk enemies only have very superficial defense thats sole purpose is to keep them from being essentially DOA in the fight against a biotic but which go down in about 2 seconds or as soon as you use an ability that is strong against it. The difference between Adept and Soldier when the enemy's health hits red? The soldier has to get out of cover and finish the guy off while him and all his friends are shooting at him. Adept just pulls out of cover for half a second to use one move and the guy is completely toast and you're working on stripping the next guy's defenses so you can do it again to the next.

You can twist the battle all you want against the Adept's favor, the fact is that many people are playing Adept on Insanity (Including me) and having just as easy and fun a time as they did with any other class and we have learned how to use the Adept to its full potential. Period. And I'm not saying the Adept is even the most superior class overall in the game (I think that's a fight between Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Soldier). But Adepts are certainly not "useless" nor are they even moderately less effective than those three. Slightly maybe, but every RPG has balance issues of some kind.

So in essence, the biggest complaint about adepts is the fact that you
NEED warp to effectively strip away all those armor/barrier/shields.

The poster who gave such a detailed analysis indicated, no it's indeed possible to play an Adept very effectively without warp.

I don't see "most people" playing on Insanity and having an easy time as an Adept. This whole topic is contrary to that "fact". Now you may be in the fringe zone or something where you are super elite with Adepts that is fine. Take into account not everyone wants to be the biggest min maxer around and we want some leniancy in our build options. Most other classes have this much needed wiggle room as tiny as it may be. Adepts are forced and jabbed into this tiny little nook that doesn't do anything unless you have been blessed by Christina yourself apparently.

We want the game to be "fun". We don't consider spamming a single power fun. We want the game to be "balanced" so that way we can do all the fun Adept things from Mass Effect 1, but at the same time not completeling killing an encounter.

Warp/Singularity Spam is contrary to this.

On the opposite end we have Dr. Proffesor back there giving lectures on how to play the class and NOT Warp/Singularity spam. God damn lectures where I can sit and take notes. We should not need a notebook on how to play a single class. I'm sorry if you feel different, but it isn't necessary.

Not to mention it just seems a little contrary and unfair that all the other classes whined about nerfing us and got us a nerf. Now they are all going around kicking all kinds of ass and here we are... not.

It's a big problem you know? They were all upgraded and made cool and stuff. All the Adepts got were three down grades and an ass kicking. Although this last point is opinion only. So keep claiming as much as you want that your "facts" are right. I guarantee you will see no end to the people utterly dissapointed by Biotics. Likewise there will always be more people poping out from under rocks stating they are "good and balanced". Ultimately though when the Developer has to retract their comments... it's not a good sign for those in favor of the Adept being "fine as is".

You know what would be better? A Dev comment or something on the situation. Please, not Christina. Someone... less attatched and unbiased to the whole situation. I just want an update so bad.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Xivai wrote...

I don't see "most people" playing on Insanity and having an easy time as an Adept. This whole topic is contrary to that "fact". Now you may be in the fringe zone or something where you are super elite with Adepts that is fine. Take into account not everyone wants to be the biggest min maxer around and we want some leniancy in our build options. Most other classes have this much needed wiggle room as tiny as it may be. Adepts are forced and jabbed into this tiny little nook that doesn't do anything unless you have been blessed by Christina yourself apparently.

I didn't say "most people". I said that people were doing it. It only takes one person playing the Adept with success to prove that it can be a successful class. If 30 people say that Adept can't beat Insanity without pulling their hair out in frustration and one person does it and claims that it wasn't actually much harder than any other class, then it's the 30 people who made the original claim who are wrong. They just might need to stop expecting singularity to be an IWIN button like it was in the first game.

We want the game to be "fun". We don't consider spamming a single power fun. We want the game to be "balanced" so that way we can do all the fun Adept things from Mass Effect 1, but at the same time not completeling killing an encounter.

I am having fun on my Adept. And Soruyao has filled out very detailed post on how Adepts can play perfectly fine on Insanity even without Warp except against major bosses. So again, this seems like your problem, not a problem with the class.

On the opposite end we have Dr. Proffesor back there giving lectures on how to play the class and NOT Warp/Singularity spam. God damn lectures where I can sit and take notes. We should not need a notebook on how to play a single class. I'm sorry if you feel different, but it isn't necessary.

Ok, see, now I know you're just angry and raving madly. You're telling me you want to be pro without learning to play your class? Ok, sure thing buddy... I think Soldier might be more your speed, why don't you just play that?

Not to mention it just seems a little contrary and unfair that all the other classes whined about nerfing us and got us a nerf. Now they are all going around kicking all kinds of ass and here we are... not.

HAHAHA What is this? A god damn MMO? Who the hell calls nerf in a single player game?! LOL

It's a big problem you know? They were all upgraded and made cool and stuff. All the Adepts got were three down grades and an ass kicking. Although this last point is opinion only. So keep claiming as much as you want that your "facts" are right. I guarantee you will see no end to the people utterly dissapointed by Biotics. Likewise there will always be more people poping out from under rocks stating they are "good and balanced". Ultimately though when the Developer has to retract their comments... it's not a good sign for those in favor of the Adept being "fine as is".

"Blah Blah Blah I don't know anything about game balance and am purposely ignoring key features of the Adept class to attempt to justify my rage Blah Blah Blah"

You know what would be better? A Dev comment or something on the situation. Please, not Christina. Someone... less attatched and unbiased to the whole situation. I just want an update so bad.

Dev doesn't need to make a comment. I'm pretty sure I know just what they'd say.

Adepts are fine. L2P

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 03 février 2010 - 10:14 .

[Soruyao]

Dr. Professor has a ring to it. It's delightfully redundant.



Anyway, I really don't think warp spam is as effective as everyone makes it sound, and I don't think enemies die as easily with no shields as people are making it sound.



I don't know, using warp (an ability that's not getting a bonus to shields and I think even barriers) on anything but armor seems like a strange decision to me. Holding something in place with a singularity and shooting it with a SMG seems like it takes down shields and barriers more quickly.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

I didn't say "most people". I said that people were doing it. It only takes one person playing the Adept with success to prove that it can be a successful class. If 30 people say that Adept can't beat Insanity without pulling their hair out in frustration and one person does it and claims that it wasn't actually much harder than any other class, then it's the 30 people who made the original claim who are wrong. They just might need to stop expecting singularity to be an IWIN button like it was in the first game.

.....
Adepts are fine. L2P

Learn to read.

The complaint has been that warp spam is boring. All other adept biotics are blocked by armor, barriers, and shields. Once those are removed the enemy is close to death. Sure, you can cast throw on them then, but what is the point then?!?!?!?

I am having fun on my Adept. And Soruyao has filled out very detailed post on how Adepts can play perfectly fine on Insanity even without Warp except against major bosses. So again, this seems like your problem, not a problem with the class.

Spending most of the battle shooting is not playing an adept. That is playing a gimped soldier.

The adept is suppseed to be the biotic specialist,

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 03 février 2010 - 10:28 .

[BerentLockhelm]

Starting to sound like WoW in here. I suck at shooters, I enjoyed ME1 a lot! I'm here for the story (this was an RPG right? or used to be?). I watched the vids, adept looked like great fun, all "Jedi judo throw!" and whatnot. Never played much adept in ME1.

My first play through I died, a lot. My second play through, on a harder difficulty I died less, but fights felt harder, took a while, used much Unity. My third play through, on the same difficulty, I took an infiltrator. I didn't die, fights were quick, never unity. Zoom, headshot, reload, repeat. Too easy maybe, and still not as fun as the adept vids looked.

I feel most enemies should have increased health. Some should have armor reduced, some removed. Shields the same. Some enemies should be left alone for more challenge.

In a game fun>realism or balance, and after all, we will eventually win regardless of class or abilities (that's why we have those save and load buttons). Let's return the fun to biotics.

EDIT: Spelling

Modifié par BerentLockhelm, 03 février 2010 - 10:31 .

[Marhkus]

MY biotics are working fine, not sure what happen to YOURS. But seriously, the biotic problems you mentionned haven't affected my session at all, doesn't seem as bad as you describe. Anywho, good luck.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Learn to read.

The complaint has been that warp spam is boring. All other adept biotics are blocked by armor, barriers, and shields. Once those are removed the enemy is close to death. Sure, you can cast throw on them then, but what is the point then?!?!?!?

I am having fun on my Adept. And Soruyao has filled out very detailed post on how Adepts can play perfectly fine on Insanity even without Warp except against major bosses. So again, this seems like your problem, not a problem with the class.

Spending most of the battle shooting is not playing an adept. That is playing a gimped soldier.

The adept is suppseed to be the biotic specialist,

I am reading. Soruyao showed how Warp Spam was not necessary to play an Adept at the insanity level and is fact overrated. People claiming that it is necessary are not playing the class correctly, hence why they are not doing well. My experiences playing an Adept (and sentinal, a similar playing class, to a degree, though that is a stronger class imo) are similar to his, though I haven't the patience that he was to try and extend a hand and tell the ungratefuls how they need to play to succeed.

And again, Soruyao said that he only uses a gun maybe 1/4 fights. I use my gun a tad more but that doesn't make my biotics less useful or central to the class. Regardless, I've played 4/6 classes in the game extensively and I am not having a considerably more difficult time on my Adept than I was on my Infiltrator, Soldier or Sentinel. Quite the contrary in fact in any occassion in which there are pitfalls you can use your biotics to knock enemies in to. That's not to say that I think Adept is the perfect class either, as there are certain kinds of fights in which Adept is weak... however this isn't an MMO or multiplayer game of any kind and Bioware doesn't need to strive for perfect balance of classes. I can't think of a single player RPG that does have "perfect balance".

[Zoe Dedweth]

Well the game is balanced around casual/normal/veteran - complaining that your stuff is less effective on insanity is a bit asinine. And for the record - my Adept also only has rank 2 warp and rocks house with his abilities.

[Amioran]

That is what this mode is for, so you having to follow that it requires only the best skills/setups/etc, is nto an inherent problem with the adept or biotic classes.

Apart the fact that your concept of what skills are "best" is biased to say the least, a thing is having some skills behave better on some difficulties, another altogheter having some skills simply do nothing at all. All classes have some combos/setups that works better than others, but no skills as biotic have this disparity when it comes to higher difficulties.

It is simply that not all skills are equal, and the lesser ones MUST be thrown out to have success on insanity.

Your conception of "lesser" skills is totally wrong. There is no "lesser" skill, it depends on the rank of the same if it is a lesser skill or not, NOT on the skill per se. As I said there are some skills that works better, but putting 4 points in (for example) Lift to have it doing nothing at all on Insanity if you don't remove ALL protections makes biotic users forced to use always the same skills. "Lesser" skills have nothing to do about it, the basis of your argument is totally wrong.

Like Pull, Shockwave, etc are lesser moves.

And who says it? You? A rank 4 Pull is almost the exact same thing (in theory) than Singularity. I don't see why it should be a "lesser" skill. It becomes so ONLY because the behaviour of biotics is faulted on higher difficulties, and not for the skill "per se". If Shockwave did work as it should, at rank 4 it would be very very good. Try a rank 4 shockwave on normal difficulty and tell me that Shockwave is a "lesser" skill when it actually works at it should.

I repeat, your concept of "lesser" skills is an argument that you created just to demonstrate your point, but it has no meaning in reality.

They do not perform as well as warp, singularity, etc, so do not use them on insanity.

 
They do not perform as well not because (I repeat) of the skill per se, but because the behavior of higher difficulties with certain biotics is obviously faulted and it actually create the difference in skills (as you put it, lesser and higher), a thing it should not be there. All skills should be ranked based on their rank, not on the fact that they work or not.

Even in normal, or whatever mode, singularity/warp still radically out performs them, they are just lesser skills.

 
Are you serious? Rank 4 Lift (area) + Warp is the same as Singularity + Warp. Rank 4 Throw (area) + Pull 4 (area) kill a crowd in seconds, Shockwave rank 4 is one of the best CC agains Husks etc. Singularity is very good, yes, but it is not an "higher" skill ,as it is not Warp. A Singularity at rank 1 is much much worser than an area Lift rank 4, so, you see, it depends TOTALLY on rank of the skill.

The difference that you talk about arises only on higher difficulties for the motives explained till now, and this alone is proof enough that something is clearly wrong.

[kappukiino]

I do wonder what people are complaining about, do u not realize how OP biotics would be if u would be able to lift off a shielded or armored person?



I played vanguard and i liked having miranda, garrus and samara in my team..



I would use tech skills and weapons to strip defences and as soon as they were down i would use my own biotics aswell to destroy them.. it worked wonders especially with big groups of enemies cos theres always SOMEONE whos not shielded or armored...



I cant understand how people can cry about not being able to lift off a fully armored and shielded person, thats the reason why u have to choose squad members that have skills u dont and use the right skills at the right time.



I played on hardcore and it was really easy at most times

[Amioran]

Zoe Dedweth wrote...

Well the game is balanced around casual/normal/veteran - complaining that your stuff is less effective on insanity is a bit asinine. And for the record - my Adept also only has rank 2 warp and rocks house with his abilities.

Also this concept is completely wrong, because the issue has nothing to do at all with balance whatsoever. It is a thing that pertains on how biotics works. Balance is an effect that arises from the issue, not the cause of the same.

If lower difficulties had more armored opponents with much less health/numbers, you will see the problem also there. The problem is more evident on higher difficulties because its cause becomes apparent only there (being that in lower difficulties only special enemies have protections, so all is fine), but it is always present.