1428 réponses à ce sujet

[Gringbot]

hoffburger has it right, most people here defending adepts just aren't seeing the big picture.

every other character I made on insanity has just about every tool at his disposal. as adept i have 5 abilities, yet im mainly only using one, because the rest are highlighted in red at all times, except for when they are defenseless and a few bullets do the trick. sounds like a gimped character to me.

i fail to see the point of all these abilities if they dont work on anything.

adepts went from uber powerful defensive cc'ers to an offensive warp spamming snooze fest. if i wanted to do damage id roll a infiltrator, or an anything else because they are made for damage.

whats the point when biotics are just doing the same thing as everything else just differently (along with not as effectively, as well)?

Modifié par Gringbot, 03 février 2010 - 10:04 .

[tetracycloide]

Ahglock wrote...
2.  You are wrong, the reaosn people prefer front loaded damage is they need the damage now, they will take a hit of 40 damage or so in order to get the damage now and not over 4 seconds as the whatver is eating them alive.  Sure if you are not being pressured by damage more damage is better whether it is a dot or front loaded, but when a husk swarm is on you you want the damage now, not after they club you to death.  

Illogical.  Now only superior to later if target dies sooner.  Only happens if Warp kills outright.  If two are used Reave should be first.  Always.  No scenario where two Warps kill faster.

[tonnactus]

Murmillos wrote...

ADAPTS can not do that- other then warp/reave spam.

Adepts could just take energy drain as a bonus...

[Xivai]

tonnactus wrote...

Murmillos wrote...

ADAPTS can not do that- other then warp/reave spam.

Adepts could just take energy drain as a bonus...

No other class NEEDS to take an extra skill to become viable as a character that is still gimped more than other classes. It should be "bonus", as in cherry on top. Not "bonus" as in military ration that will keep you alive.

Just for the record. That is why it is a "bonus" skill and not a normal skill in their list.

[IzzQuad]

Certain biotics and techs are better against certain things. And upgrading abilities allows them to be more effective against armour/shields. For instance, Warp at a higher level seriously destroys armour, but at a lower level it's practically useless.



Plus, Biotics and Techs can still hit people and do damage to armour, barriers, and shields, they just won't lift people, throw them, pull them, etc;

[Ahglock]

tetracycloide wrote...

Ahglock wrote...
2.  You are wrong, the reaosn people prefer front loaded damage is they need the damage now, they will take a hit of 40 damage or so in order to get the damage now and not over 4 seconds as the whatver is eating them alive.  Sure if you are not being pressured by damage more damage is better whether it is a dot or front loaded, but when a husk swarm is on you you want the damage now, not after they club you to death.  

Illogical.  Now only superior to later if target dies sooner.  Only happens if Warp kills outright.  If two are used Reave should be first.  Always.  No scenario where two Warps kill faster.

Actually no, the target  will incredibly frequently die sooner with warp.  And that is the point.  I bump into more situations where a single warp will take out a target than where a reave/warp combo takes out a target but a warp/warp does not.  The squad is shooting and using powers as I direct so frequently a single warp from me will drop the target.  If the target is fresh and has armor sure it takes two warps, but it is very rare that the two warps don't take out the target but a reave+warp does.  The only thing I really gain form the combo is the warp explosion. 

Now I like reave for its area attack, it can strip the armor off a pack of charging husks allowing my to shockwave them off of me.  But I'm not sure that+the warp explosion make it worth picking it up with warp.  The only reason it it probbaly worth it is because due to the games structure every other power sucks since it can't penetrate armor or shields. 

[Soruyao]

I just got through tali's recruitment mission without warping once (except for on boss level enemies.)



Miranda overloaded shields, zaeed stripped armor, and I threw people off of things.



I used singularity to hold things in place so that my allies could strip them. One shot or two per enemy with the SMG were all it took to get them into health, and even that I had to do rarely.



Warp. Is. Not. Necessary.



Lift and throw are finishers. Shockwave is for exposing enemies who are somewhere you can't curve a biotic to. Singularity holds people in place even if their armor up and makes it laughably easy to take off their defenses or run away from them.



Warp is for taking off armor and killing bosses, unless you max it out and then you can use it like a heavy weapon. Why do people keep doing this if it's boring?



It's not necessary. At all. In fact, to prove it, I'm going to finish my insanity run without getting the warp 25 times achievement.

[CatatonicMan]

Soruyao wrote...

Warp is for taking off armor and killing bosses, unless you max it out and then you can use it like a heavy weapon. Why do people keep doing this if it's boring?

It's not necessary. At all. In fact, to prove it, I'm going to finish my insanity run without getting the warp 25 times achievement.

I don't think that warp was required to play Adept, but did it occur to you that not using warp might be equally (if not more) boring than just spamming it?

The more I think about it, the more I get the feeling that it is the entire biotic system that was ruined; everything else is more a result of that stupidity rather than a fault of its own.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 04 février 2010 - 04:30 .

[suprhomre]

ADEPT SUCKS.

[Xivai]

Soruyao wrote...

I just got through tali's recruitment mission without warping once (except for on boss level enemies.)

Miranda overloaded shields, zaeed stripped armor, and I threw people off of things.

I used singularity to hold things in place so that my allies could strip them. One shot or two per enemy with the SMG were all it took to get them into health, and even that I had to do rarely.

Warp. Is. Not. Necessary.

Lift and throw are finishers. Shockwave is for exposing enemies who are somewhere you can't curve a biotic to. Singularity holds people in place even if their armor up and makes it laughably easy to take off their defenses or run away from them.

Warp is for taking off armor and killing bosses, unless you max it out and then you can use it like a heavy weapon. Why do people keep doing this if it's boring?

It's not necessary. At all. In fact, to prove it, I'm going to finish my insanity run without getting the warp 25 times achievement.

Wait you were throwing? ****ING AWESOME! So what is this like normal? Veteran? Hardcore? It can't be Insanity could it? Or were you throwing more like... finishing moves. Surely you weren't throwing shielded enemies!

Throw doesn't work on them on Insanity. Proving you have failed to read. This is about Insanity.

[Ahglock]

Soruyao wrote...

I just got through tali's recruitment mission without warping once (except for on boss level enemies.)

Miranda overloaded shields, zaeed stripped armor, and I threw people off of things.

I used singularity to hold things in place so that my allies could strip them. One shot or two per enemy with the SMG were all it took to get them into health, and even that I had to do rarely.

Warp. Is. Not. Necessary.

Lift and throw are finishers. Shockwave is for exposing enemies who are somewhere you can't curve a biotic to. Singularity holds people in place even if their armor up and makes it laughably easy to take off their defenses or run away from them.

Warp is for taking off armor and killing bosses, unless you max it out and then you can use it like a heavy weapon. Why do people keep doing this if it's boring?

It's not necessary. At all. In fact, to prove it, I'm going to finish my insanity run without getting the warp 25 times achievement.

No one said it was necesarry.  Let me break down the argument for you.

Shields and Armor stop biotics.

You have to strip sheilds and armor to use your biotics, warp is a very good way to do this though there are other ways.

Once the armor and shields are down HP get chewed through so fast you can kill the target however you want, but it is an almost meaningless distinction since they drop so fast and easy.  And warp is top of the field for a quick and easy way to kill your targets.

Frequently when you use pull or other powers your squadmates will gun themdown before you can do the cool combos we saw in the video.

All the above combne to make Biotics a bit on the boring side, yeah I can go out of my way to use the cool powers and try to force fun into the system.  But fun should come naturally, I should not have to force it into the system.

All the other classes can use all to the majority of there abilities from the getgo in a fight, heavily biotic classes get cut off from the all(except warp) of there abilities until 2/3rds of the fight is over(shields or armor dropped)  This disparity makes biotcs less fun than the other classes. 

[Ahglock]

[quote]Xivai wrote...


It's not necessary. At all. In fact, to prove it, I'm going to finish my insanity run without getting the warp 25 times achievement.[/quote]
Wait you were throwing? ****ING AWESOME! So what is this like normal? Veteran? Hardcore? It can't be Insanity could it? Or were you throwing more like... finishing moves. Surely you weren't throwing shielded enemies!

Throw doesn't work on them on Insanity. Proving you have failed to read. This is about Insanity.

[/quote]
He knows, he is playing on insanity.  He uses his guns, sniper squadmates and there powers aggresively to drop armor and shields.  Once they are down he gets to FINISH THEM with a cool biotic power, maintaining his fun. 

[Xivai]

[quote]Ahglock wrote...

[quote]Xivai wrote...


It's not necessary. At all. In fact, to prove it, I'm going to finish my insanity run without getting the warp 25 times achievement.[/quote]
Wait you were throwing? ****ING AWESOME! So what is this like normal? Veteran? Hardcore? It can't be Insanity could it? Or were you throwing more like... finishing moves. Surely you weren't throwing shielded enemies!

Throw doesn't work on them on Insanity. Proving you have failed to read. This is about Insanity.

[/quote]
He knows, he is playing on insanity.  He uses his guns, sniper squadmates and there powers aggresively to drop armor and shields.  Once they are down he gets to FINISH THEM with a cool biotic power, maintaining his fun. 

[/quote]
Alright, I concede. No power is "necessary" if you have a gun. However, it just so happens that Adept's got the short end of the stick there too.  

While you CAN choose to be nuts and not use warp to bloody your own brain in. It is generally a faster way to proceed.

Happy? I agreed with you. Now surely the world must explode.

[Soruyao]

Xivai wrote...

Wait you were throwing? ****ING AWESOME!
So what is this like normal? Veteran? Hardcore? It can't be Insanity
could it? Or were you throwing more like... finishing moves. Surely you
weren't throwing shielded enemies!

Throw doesn't work on them on Insanity. Proving you have failed to read. This is about Insanity.

It was insanity.  I played a third of an infiltrator playthrough when I got the game on hardcore and then cranked it up to insanity and haven't turned it down except once to get the brawler achievement.

Miranda strips shields fast enough that I always have something unshielded to toss around.  If not, I can hold something in place with a singularity and shoot it's shields off, then throw it.

Ahglock wrote...

No one said it was necesarry.  Let me break down the argument for you.

Shields and Armor stop biotics.

You have to strip sheilds and armor to use your biotics, warp is a very good way to do this though there are other ways.

Once the armor and shields are down HP get chewed through so fast you can kill the target however you want, but it is an almost meaningless distinction since they drop so fast and easy.  And warp is top of the field for a quick and easy way to kill your targets.

Frequently when you use pull or other powers your squadmates will gun themdown before you can do the cool combos we saw in the video.

All the above combne to make Biotics a bit on the boring side, yeah I can go out of my way to use the cool powers and try to force fun into the system.  But fun should come naturally, I should not have to force it into the system.

All the other classes can use all to the majority of there abilities from the getgo in a fight, heavily biotic classes get cut off from the all(except warp) of there abilities until 2/3rds of the fight is over(shields or armor dropped)  This disparity makes biotcs less fun than the other classes. 

Warp is an okay way to do it.  It kind of sucks vs shields and barrier unless you max it out, and even then it would be better to use an ability specifically designed for the defense you're trying to remove.  It's like those people who play rock paper scissors and use nothing but rock and then complain that rock paper scissors is boring and that they only win a third of the time.

If I pull something and my teammate kills it, that's good.  It means I removed the enemy's cover and allowed them to have a clear shot.   Frequently they're too busy removing the defenses on something else, which lets me throw something off and focus on the enemy they were working on once I'm done doing that.

Honestly, miranda's overload takes down shields so fast that it really is 1/4th of the time it takes for me to kill stuff.

One more thing:  Say an enemy is behind cover.  His shields are down.   I decide to kill him with nothing but warps.   I curve three warps around and whittle him down.   (Maybe more if he's got good cover and I really have to work on it to curve the warps around, I might miss a couple and it would take more.)

Now lets say I hit him with a pull.    Then my teammate shoots him.   Bam, I just saved 10-15 seconds.
----

I don't understand people saying that the way I've been playing sounds less fun.    Using one ability constantly vs using every ability intermittently seems like an easy choice, assuming it can be done successfully and safely.    (Except for shockwave, that one I've been using very intermittently, but there have been times it's made my life WAY easier to have it.   Especially on a certain mission that has about 5 balconies with heavy weapons guys on top of them.)

-edit-

Oh, and one more thing.  I rarely need to fire a shot.  Overload takes enemies down to low enough that my singularity dot is enough to finish stripping them, which means that they get grabbed by it and I don't even have to use a lift to start their cc.   I start shooting when I get cornered or when there's boss type enemies like geth primes or scions.   On normal enemies, I fire a fourth of a clip per enemy (every fourth or so needs this) to finish stripping them and then start ragdolling them, unless my team is completely dead and I have no medi gel, which has not happened yet.

Modifié par Soruyao, 04 février 2010 - 04:55 .

[Cryo84]

Less defense, more health. There, Adepts fixed.

[konfeta]

Soru, give up. You are arguing against theorycrafting. If they legitimately believe you have to wait until the fight is "2/3 over before using biotics for crowd control" they stopped playing before leaving Omega, or failed to evolve Area versions of defense targeting abilities.

[Soruyao]

konfeta wrote...

Soru, give up. You are arguing against theorycrafting. If they legitimately believe you have to wait until the fight is "2/3 over before using biotics for crowd control" they stopped playing before leaving Omega, or failed to evolve Area versions of defense targeting abilities.

But theorycrafting is fun =x

I used to frequent the WoW forums, arguing game theory is one of my favorite ways to pass the time.

[Malanthor]

Poor Hoffburger, trying to convince morons.

Ive read abouth 40% of this thread and simply cant take it anylonger.

What he's saying is pure logic but people keep coming up with lame arguments or comments that are not relevant at all. I agree with you man, just ignore these blind fools.

[Roxlimn]

I've been trying out Adept on Hardcore. It's actually pretty spiffy. I get how Soruyao is doing it because that's how I do it, too. I'm having a pretty easy time on Hardcore. I'll test it out on Insanity, but I don't believe the results will change substantially since even on Hardcore, most enemies have defenses past Omega. The game can be finished on Insanity easily using whatever class.



As with Soruyao, I'm finding using Adept allows me to finish fights faster. This is entirely because Pull and Sing allow me to draw enemies out of cover. Also because Pull-Warp detonates a 5 meter damage explosion, but Pull and Sing by themselves shorten battles considerably. I'm blazing through with Adept faster than almost any other class with the possible exception of Infiltrator (incinerate + sniper rifle is sexeh).

[Adamzen]

Roxlimn wrote...


As with Soruyao, I'm finding using Adept allows me to finish fights faster. This is entirely because Pull and Sing allow me to draw enemies out of cover. Also because Pull-Warp detonates a 5 meter damage explosion, but Pull and Sing by themselves shorten battles considerably. I'm blazing through with Adept faster than almost any other class with the possible exception of Infiltrator (incinerate + sniper rifle is sexeh).

That's lame dude and you are a moron because i want to play my Adept on insanity without really paying any notice to whats going on.
When i enter a new area i expect to be able to clear it with a random combination of biotics that look cool and make me feel like darth vader.
If that's not the case the Adept class is f***ing broken!!!

And don't start like "but your Squad" or "Tactics" or stuff like that. 
Real Gs don't need no sissy backup and there ARE no tactics if i can't decide if i pwn with shockwave+lift+throw or throw+singularity+x etc.

So shut up and let me have my fun

[vhatever]

Soruyao = trolling/BSing. I'd love to see his tali loyalty mission FRAPS without warp/reave as an adept.



Throw on insanity. ROFLMFAO.

[Roxlimn]

vhatever:



To be honest, it's not that hard. Most of that loyalty mission is against Geth and you can handily rip through that on Hardcore with just squad-based Overload. The added functionality of Reave/Warp in that situation seems questionable to me. Surely, Energy Drain would be better, and if you really want the Warp explosion, you can always Pull some mook and blow that guy up.



Seriously, dude. Those of us here who reveal our personal experiences have no incentive to lie. What would that gain us, exactly? Why are you assuming that it's just BS? Is it because you can't do it yourself, or you don't even want to try?



We can do it, you can't. That doesn't necessarily mean we're BSing you. Maybe it means that you're not as good as you think you are.

[Grayvern]

people are disatisfied with biotics on harcore and insane not because an adept is incapable of dealing but be because most of the time you are feeling cheated of the actually cool powers, and left only using those that take of enemy armor or shields.

[Grayvern]

and once you get down to the health meter they are basically cheesed anyways (sorry. out double post can't edit on my iPod)

[sgrzadka]

if you have so many issues go make your own damn game