1428 réponses à ce sujet

[themaxzero]

The thing is, as I have posted before, is that Singularity actually works (partially) through defenses. While it does not swirl protected enemies in the air it keeps 'pulling' them to the center for several seconds during which they can't attack.



There is a reason why none of your teammates have it since you could pretty much perma stun enemies with two casters.

[AlphaJarmel]

Actually warp is pretty much crap compared to some other powers.

[Hoffburger]

I don't feel the need to counter any of your arguments other than the baseless claims at my experience and Adept killing speed because you didn't even counter my initial arguments.You say I'm not discussing this honestly when it's fairly obvious that I have more experience at all difficulty levels with most of the classes. I have actually played on normal difficulty. I have played on hardcore. So, nice try, but you'll need better arguments than that to convince people that you aren't spewing mindless drivel. You asked if I would like you to give me a situation where Biotics will kill faster than a Sniper Rifle. Yes, I'd love to hear about this mythical situation please. I'll be surprised if you can come up with a single situation and I will fear the Apocalypse if you can prove to me that Biotics kill faster in 51% of the encounters in the game.

Modifié par Hoffburger, 04 février 2010 - 10:06 .

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Roxlimn wrote...
Flash in the Flesh:

Nonsense. The bulk of Infiltrator play revolves around using a Sniper Rifle, usually with one ammo or another. Is that not boring as well?

Nope, because that's what infiltrator is made for. That's what he's supposed to do. When you pick your class and look at infiltrator you think of cloak and sniper rifle.

When you pick class and look at adept you think of spectacular CC and flying opponents. What you get on insanity is warp 90% of the time.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 04 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[themaxzero]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...
Flash in the Flesh:

Nonsense. The bulk of Infiltrator play revolves around using a Sniper Rifle, usually with one ammo or another. Is that not boring as well?

Nope, because that's what infiltrator is made for. That's what he's supposed to do. When you pick your class and look at infiltrator you think of cloak and sniper rifle.

When you pick class and look at adept you think of spectacular CC and flying opponents. What you get on insanity is warp 90% of the time.

I find my use is more 50% Warp 50% Singularity.

[Hoffburger]

Roxlimn wrote...


Nonsense. The bulk of Infiltrator play revolves around using a Sniper Rifle, usually with one ammo or another. Is that not boring as well?

For Soldier, you may as well only have one gun - the Vindicator. You can snipe every so often, but that's just for getting lazy. You can tackle most of the game using only the AR.

Stupid argument is stupid.

Infiltrators, Sentinels, and Soldiers all play exactly the same regardless of difficulty. Does playing on a harder difficulty make it so ARs do 0 damage to enemies until they are stripped of defenses? Are Adrenaline Rush and Tactical Cloak restricted at all?

What you see is what you get with those classes. You go in knowing you are going to be using your gun, Adrenaline Rush, Tactical Cloak, Incinerate, etc. With an Adept you go in expecting enemies to be flying around and causing mayhem, just look at the class video. Once you up the difficulty to where you aren't just playing an interactive movie all of that changes and everything boils down to warp.

Yea you can use pull or singularity then detonate it, or you could just use two warps for better effect. SInce the detonation doesn't allow me to manipulate ragdolls like the class video I'm only concerned with if it does more damage than two warps, which it doesn't against a single target. On the very rare occasion that enemies are close enough, yes you can use it, but those situations are few and far between.


Edit: Flash beat me to it, he must be hiding outside my window, STRANGER DANGER!

Modifié par Hoffburger, 04 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[Roxlimn]

Hoffburger:

It's "drivel," not dribble.

It's obvious that you have an agenda and are not willing to consider facts. To you, killing enemies like clockwork on Insanity every 2 seconds, headshotting through the entire game is EASY. That speaks for itself. I am familiar with people who are more skilled at shooter games than that (as I'm sure you're aware), but they're none of them operating under the delusion that they're normal and that what they're doing is easy.

I can give you a situation where power use killed a bunch of mooks nearly instantly, since it actually happens in my games, but I'm not sure you're all that open to discussing it honestly, so what's the point?

Yea you can use pull or singularity then detonate it, or you could just use two warps for better effect. SInce the detonation doesn't allow me to manipulate ragdolls like the class video I'm only concerned with if it does more damage than two warps, which it doesn't against a single target. On the very rare occasion that enemies are close enough, yes you can use it, but those situations are few and far between.

Okay, now you're just talking nonsense.  Both Pull and Singularity have shorter cooldowns than Warp, so they expend less resources.  Moreover, Pulled opponents are sitting ducks, fair game for shooting, whereas two Warps don't have the same surety.  And Warps don't track as well as Pulls.

Seriously, have you really tried?  I've been using Pull-Warp and Singularity-Warp to devastating effect on Hardcore.  Nail them to the ground with Sing, the detonate the floater with Warp.  Fantastic effect.  Way better than two Warps.  Also, you don't need two guys with Heavy Warp to pull it off.

Flash_in_the_Flesh:

Can't speak for Insanity, but on Hardcore, I get Thrown and Flying opponents all the time. Clearly, it works for a majority of the game's settings. If I played at Insanity about a month from now and I say, for instance, that I'm able to put Pull and Throw to good use, are you really open to dialogue on how I did it, or are you just going to call me names and belittle me like everyone else?

Modifié par Roxlimn, 04 février 2010 - 09:59 .

[Gringbot]

Roxlimn wrote...

Gringbot:

The opening post and third down, Hoffburger talks generally, and then specifically about Hardcore setting, which I'm playing now, and to which I specifically referred to. Many posters generically create posts about how Biotics are problematic, when they're really only problematic for them, for very specific reasons, on Insanity. It's useful to clarify every once in the while so the peanut gallery doesn't get the wrong impression.

So you agree that on most of the game's settings, the problem is small or nonexistent?

If you can't find posts about Biotics on Hardcore or lower, you can browse the thread. Heck, the first page contains the one from the OP.

i didnt mean to make it seem like NO ONE is talking about hardcore at all, but the problem is about biotics and their immunity to shields which gets worse the higher up you go in difficutly.

so with that in mind, and the amount of people that are really complaining referring to insanity, while only some people complaining are referring to hardcore, and even less referring to veteran.  see a pattern?

my point is, most people here that are really truthfully complaining, are not really referring to hardcore or veteran.  i played hardcore on my vangaurd, another class having problems in insanity from what im hearing, and the game was relatively easy, even with my biotics being limited by shields. 

but my main point, is that insanity difficulty is really the thing being mentioned the most commonly.  sure people may refer to hardcore every now and then as a comparison, or thats all they seemed to play on, or whatever, but overall the people who are actually saying "something is wrong here" are USUALLY on insanity. 

my problem is how you are talking so much, yet you arent even on insanity difficulty, which again, is really the problem that most everyone is pointing at.  you are just talking and arguing with yourself at this point.

[AlphaJarmel]

Adepts are one of the worst classes(if not the worst) because all their skills can be done by other classes to better effects. Incinerate is better for armor, Reave is better for Barriers, Disrupter ammo is better for shields, and health itself really doesn't matter.

[themaxzero]

Hoffburger wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...


Nonsense. The bulk of Infiltrator play revolves around using a Sniper Rifle, usually with one ammo or another. Is that not boring as well?

For Soldier, you may as well only have one gun - the Vindicator. You can snipe every so often, but that's just for getting lazy. You can tackle most of the game using only the AR.

Stupid argument is stupid.

Infiltrators, Sentinels, and Soldiers all play exactly the same regardless of difficulty. Does playing on a harder difficulty make it so ARs do 0 damage to enemies until they are stripped of defenses? Are Adrenaline Rush and Tactical Cloak restricted at all?

What you see is what you get with those classes. You go in knowing you are going to be using your gun, Adrenaline Rush, Tactical Cloak, Incinerate, etc. With an Adept you go in expecting enemies to be flying around and causing mayhem, just look at the class video. Once you up the difficulty to where you aren't just playing an interactive movie all of that changes and everything boils down to warp.

Yea you can use pull or singularity then detonate it, or you could just use two warps for better effect. SInce the detonation doesn't allow me to manipulate ragdolls like the class video I'm only concerned with if it does more damage than two warps, which it doesn't against a single target. On the very rare occasion that enemies are close enough, yes you can use it, but those situations are few and far between.


Edit: Flash beat me to it, he must be hiding outside my window, STRANGER DANGER!

No you use Singularity to hold the target(s) so they don't shoot back. The only enemies that are completly immune
to Singularities hold (with protections up) are the Large Combat Robots and the big floaty eye beam eyes.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

True, singularity somewhat works on shielded enemies but is it that what it's made for? Hold?

Are 2 skills for a class enough? How many skills are useful for other classes on insanity?

Hoffburger wrote:



Soldier:



Adrenaline Rush = Still extremely useful.

Ammo Powers = Still extremely useful.

Concussive Shot = Still extremely useful.



Infiltrator:



Incinerate = Still extremely useful.

Ammo Powers = Still extremely useful.

Tactical Cloak = Still extremely useful.

AI Hacking = Still fairly useful (makes a couple missions a complete joke, the reason why is posted somewhere on YouTube.



Adept:



Warp = Still extremely useful.

Singularity = Still somewhat useful.

Everything else = Useless.



Vanguard:



Ammo Power = Still extremely useful.

Charge = Rarely useful.

Everything else = Useless.

Murmillos wrote:



Engineer:



Overload = Shields

Incinerate = Armor & Health

Combat Drone = All - no damage but great for getting them out of cover

Cryo Blast = Health, but great for very HIGH health targets.

AI Hacking (2 or 3 points) = Still good even if you strip the shields as it makes more distractions. he more other hackable targets still around, the less useful. 2 vs 1 good, 3 vs 1 ok, 4 vs 1 dies to quickly from the combined fire before the cool down is off.

[themaxzero]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Adepts are one of the worst classes(if not the worst) because all their skills can be done by other classes to better effects. Incinerate is better for armor, Reave is better for Barriers, Disrupter ammo is better for shields, and health itself really doesn't matter.

No one can do Singularity. Adept is the only class that can CC through shields.

[Gringbot]

Roxlimn wrote...

Can't speak for Insanity, but on Hardcore, I get Thrown and Flying opponents all the time.

see?

[gr00grams]

In Insanity+ I find that Singularity is the best skill in the game.

I can hold anything smaller than YMIR mechs at bay, even with shields.



I have also found, that the Singularity/combo system works, even if they are still shielded. I have also found, that singularity with heavy throw spams an extremely useful shield removal tool.



I can hold full barrier etc Harbinger collectors without ANY ability to attack me with singularity.

This is with full shields etc. Singularity just holds everything nice, or interrupts everything they do, while making them useless.



Want a fast way to take out shields? heavy singularity with Nemesis (singularity actually does a nice DoT for a few) then spam heavy throws. All in cover.

[AlphaJarmel]

themaxzero wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Adepts are one of the worst classes(if not the worst) because all their skills can be done by other classes to better effects. Incinerate is better for armor, Reave is better for Barriers, Disrupter ammo is better for shields, and health itself really doesn't matter.

No one can do Singularity. Adept is the only class that can CC through shields.

And?  Soldiers have Andenaline Rush, Infiltrators have Cloak, and Sentinels have Tech Armor.  All those are better because they're defensive.  The Engineer's bot is somewhat useful but is kinda limited, Charge is pretty much useless, and Singularity doesn't really do enough damage for it to be considered a game changer.  Not only that Singularity is only one power.  So Adepts have one good power?

[themaxzero]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

True, singularity somewhat works on shielded enemies but is it that what it's made for? Hold?
Are 2 skills for a class enough? How many skills are useful for other classes on insanity?

Hoffburger wrote:

Soldier:

Adrenaline Rush = Still extremely useful.
Ammo Powers = Still extremely useful.
Concussive Shot = Still extremely useful.

Infiltrator:

Incinerate = Still extremely useful.
Ammo Powers = Still extremely useful.
Tactical Cloak = Still extremely useful.
AI Hacking = Still fairly useful (makes a couple missions a complete joke, the reason why is posted somewhere on YouTube.

Adept:

Warp = Still extremely useful.
Singularity = Still somewhat useful.
Everything else = Useless.

Vanguard:

Ammo Power = Still extremely useful.
Charge = Rarely useful.
Everything else = Useless.

Murmillos wrote:

Engineer:

Overload = Shields
Incinerate = Armor & Health
Combat Drone = All - no damage but great for getting them out of cover
Cryo Blast = Health, but great for very HIGH health targets.
AI Hacking (2 or 3 points) = Still good even if you strip the shields as it makes more distractions. he more other hackable targets still around, the less useful. 2 vs 1 good, 3 vs 1 ok, 4 vs 1 dies to quickly from the combined fire before the cool down is off.

Can you really count ammo powers as a 'useable' skill? Especially with group versions?

[themaxzero]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Adepts are one of the worst classes(if not the worst) because all their skills can be done by other classes to better effects. Incinerate is better for armor, Reave is better for Barriers, Disrupter ammo is better for shields, and health itself really doesn't matter.

No one can do Singularity. Adept is the only class that can CC through shields.

And?  Soldiers have Andenaline Rush, Infiltrators have Cloak, and Sentinels have Tech Armor.  All those are better because they're defensive.  The Engineer's bot is somewhat useful but is kinda limited, Charge is pretty much useless, and Singularity doesn't really do enough damage for it to be considered a game changer.  Not only that Singularity is only one power.  So Adepts have one good power?

How is the ability to AoE CC almost any enemy reguardless of protection (so they can't shoot back) not a good defensive skill? Especially when you can curl it around so you do not have to expose yourself?

[Gringbot]

gr00grams wrote...

In Insanity+ I find that Singularity is the best skill in the game.
I can hold anything smaller than YMIR mechs at bay, even with shields.

I have also found, that the Singularity/combo system works, even if they are still shielded. I have also found, that singularity with heavy throw spams an extremely useful shield removal tool.

I can hold full barrier etc Harbinger collectors without ANY ability to attack me with singularity.
This is with full shields etc. Singularity just holds everything nice, or interrupts everything they do, while making them useless.

Want a fast way to take out shields? heavy singularity with Nemesis (singularity actually does a nice DoT for a few) then spam heavy throws. All in cover.

this is the problem though, that singularity seems to be the only thing in the adepts aresenal that is considered a CC, everything else is broken until their health bar is showing, which takes less time to kill if you shoot them with your crappy SMG. 

throw, pull, shockwave, what about these?  "oh you can use them when theyre already dead" is basically the problem here.

[themaxzero]

gr00grams wrote...

In Insanity+ I find that Singularity is the best skill in the game.
I can hold anything smaller than YMIR mechs at bay, even with shields.

I have also found, that the Singularity/combo system works, even if they are still shielded. I have also found, that singularity with heavy throw spams an extremely useful shield removal tool.

I can hold full barrier etc Harbinger collectors without ANY ability to attack me with singularity.
This is with full shields etc. Singularity just holds everything nice, or interrupts everything they do, while making them useless.

Want a fast way to take out shields? heavy singularity with Nemesis (singularity actually does a nice DoT for a few) then spam heavy throws. All in cover.

Well apparently Adepts suck in Insanity and you and me just don't exist.

[Roxlimn]

Gringbot:



I made no secret of the fact that I'm personally talking about Hardcore, which I mention in my posts, over and over. If Hoffburger et al are talking me up on it, then we are talking about Hardcore, since I have, more than once, said that I don't know anything about Insanity since I haven't played it firsthand.



Is Hoffburger, the OP, "truthfully complaining?" Well, he's talking about Hardcore, right in the first page.



I am talking about Hardcore. On Hardcore, the defenses are not a problem. You can still use Pull, and Throw, and Sing to great effect. When I play Insanity, I'll talk about it.

[themaxzero]

Gringbot wrote...

gr00grams wrote...

In Insanity+ I find that Singularity is the best skill in the game.
I can hold anything smaller than YMIR mechs at bay, even with shields.

I have also found, that the Singularity/combo system works, even if they are still shielded. I have also found, that singularity with heavy throw spams an extremely useful shield removal tool.

I can hold full barrier etc Harbinger collectors without ANY ability to attack me with singularity.
This is with full shields etc. Singularity just holds everything nice, or interrupts everything they do, while making them useless.

Want a fast way to take out shields? heavy singularity with Nemesis (singularity actually does a nice DoT for a few) then spam heavy throws. All in cover.

this is the problem though, that singularity seems to be the only thing in the adepts aresenal that is considered a CC, everything else is broken until their health bar is showing, which takes less time to kill if you shoot them with your crappy SMG. 

throw, pull, shockwave, what about these?  "oh you can use them when theyre already dead" is basically the problem here.

Well so far he is talking about Singularity and Throw. I use Warp as well. Just how many abilities do you expect me to use when they all have 3-6 second cooldowns (less with skills and upgrades)?

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

themaxzero wrote...
Can you really count ammo powers as a 'useable' skill? Especially with group versions?

They are useful class skills you regulary use, aren't they?

[Gringbot]

right, because hoffburger is "everybody".



you are delusional.

[themaxzero]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

themaxzero wrote...
Can you really count ammo powers as a 'useable' skill? Especially with group versions?

They are useful class skills you regulary use, aren't they?

Only if you need to use a gun to kill the enemy. Bit of a stretch to call them 'useable abilities'. That fact is Adepts do not have any passive abilities like Tech Armour or Ammo to 'pad the numbers'.

Modifié par themaxzero, 04 février 2010 - 10:18 .

[Roxlimn]

Flash_in_the_Flesh:



Actually, Infiltrator on Hardcore is best done (IMO) with Disruptor, Incinerate, and Tactical Cloak. AI Hacking is just for lulz. Cryo - not so good.



Essentially, what you've got is manual control for single-power damage boosting, all essentially boiling down to either sniping something with a rifle, or burning it down with Incinerate. Not the most versatile class of play there.



At least with an Adept, you can alternate between gunplay and powers, if you have squad ammo, and the interplay between powers changes depending on how you use them. 'Course, if you went through Insanity just spamming Warp (and you can), you won't know about all these other tricks.