1428 réponses à ce sujet

[Amioran]

Roxlimn wrote...

That's a matter of perception. Disruptor Ammo, for instance, is a key ammo skill for both Soldiers and Infiltrators. Great against synthetics and anything with Shields or Barriers. Kind of worthless against Armor and Health.

I would like to know what there is that can be tied to a "matter of perception" on the fact that biotics don't work on enemies having whatever form of protection. This is a restriction; if you like it or not it's another matter, but this point is not debatable and it has nothing to do on how me or you perceive it.

On certain missions, these ammo skills are useless. Not just mostly useless. Completely useless. And as mentioned, Cryo loses impact at higher levels of difficulty. I don't see how this is insufficient to parallel Adept. Throw is useful, Pull is useful, Sing is useful. Not all the time, but some of the time in most situations.

You must be joking. Ammo skills have some of the best skills in all the game in their ranks. Armor piercing ammo is probably the best skill in all the game, Warp ammo and Inferno too. I don't see how you can really say that these skills can be "useless".

Apart this we are not debating the usefulness of skills in ideal situations here, we are not comparing skills to acknowledge what is the "best". You try to motivate the use of some skills (as Pull or Throw) given the right circumnstance, but the point is that there should be no motive to do so. You can find an use for everything if you so want, but that's not the point. A crowd control skill to be effective should be able to actually control the field in every particular occasion given the scope of the skill, or it is simply wasted. Imagine, for example, using a spell to dominate enemies with a mental check against high intelligence targets in whatever standard RPG. Nobody would do that simply because it would be pointless from a role point of view.

Naturally if you HAVE to do it because you have no other way then you will find an use, whatever that is. This is the same thing in a different setting. As an Adept you have an arsenal of crowd control skills that simply don't work if not at the time it is usually less important that they actually do. Sure, it's fun to throw an enemy at low health after a pull, but was it needed? Probably not, but this is what you have and you adapt to it. Luckily this is not a PVP game and so you are free to be as inefficient as you want if you like, but if this wasn't the case do you really think you would ever use Pull + Throw instead of Reave + Warp to kill the other squad enemies? It would simply be a waste both of time and resources.

The power of a caster class (ad the Adept) resides on control; if you cannot do it from beginning you are simply filling another role or try to fulfill it in artificial ways, simple. As I said you can find a way to make everything work and maybe also be happy in the process, however this doesn't change the fact that you should not be forced to do one thing or another. You should be able to use your skills on every circumnstance given by the skill's scope and to decide for yourself when and what it is the better one, not have the game decide that for you. This is the point of the matter.

On lower difficulties the restriction, in fact, has a sense given by the rank of the enemies that creates it, but in higher difficulties the restriction has a too large effect and the scope of skills is vastly reduced without however creating a true motivation for it. I imagine you would be fine also if there would be a difficulty after Insane that would make all powers simply not work against enemies if not at 10% health. You probably will find a way to make Pull or Throw work also there, I'm sure, problem is: what would be the point beyond embellishment?

Modifié par Amioran, 04 février 2010 - 11:40 .

[Jarmelopt]

There isn't any reason why a player should choose adept other than the spamming of singularity.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Happykola wrote...

I don't think biotics are useless now, warp/overload followed by pull/slam/throw combos are still very powerful (warp is insane against harbingers which alone justifies taking a biotic) they just aren't utter god mode liek they were in mass effect 1.

Yet again
It's not the point.

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

I never said the Adept was better then Inf or Soldier I am simply showing you that it's not useless on Insanity.

Neither
did OP, nor any other player disappointed with adept gameplay. It's not
that adepts are useless on insanity, it's not they are harder to play.
They are just boring and they can't do what define them as fun class.
Adept = people flying. Adept on insanity = no more flying = not an
adept anymore.

[Roxlimn]

kelsjet:



Before you go about blaming pop cultural phenomena and corporations, perhaps you might want to learn the meaning of the word "fact."



This is not an intentional put-down. Seriously, please do. Too many young people these days bandy around that word and then throw down exaggerations, suppositions, and opinion. If the file on Insanity says that the Shields there are at 400% Normal while Hardcore is at 200%, then Shields are twice strength on Insanity as they are on Hardcore. That is a fact. Some people say that Adepts are not fun to play on Insanity. That is an opinion.

[gr00grams]

And opinions are like ****s. Everyone has them.

[NalimX]

Roxlimn wrote...

NalimX:

Absolutely not. I know because I've just played my Adept through a few loyalty missions on Hardcore. Gunning down an Eclipse merc, even without his Shields, takes more than one shot from a pistol and a Warp. I've even got Heavy Warp and Biotic upgrades and +power mods, so it's not like I'm not optimizing biotic damage.

By rough estimate, I think it requires (on Hardcore) about 2 Heavy Warps more or less to kill all the health of a normal enemy. That or significant gunfire. Adding squaddie guns to yours allows you to kill normal enemies without using a gun or Warp. Maybe that's what you're observing.

This may be the case, nevertheless they go down fast as hell when they are down to health. I just find it more useful to go with the next enemy with defenses after I got one down to health, hence I don't use the other-than-warp-biotic powers. I wouldn't say that they are useless, but there are things which are more useful. I played an adept on veteran and some hours on insanity. I also play a sentinel on insanity and, as I stated before, on higher difficulties he's just a better version of the adept.

[AlphaJarmel]

Roxlimn wrote...

kelsjet:

Before you go about blaming pop cultural phenomena and corporations, perhaps you might want to learn the meaning of the word "fact."

This is not an intentional put-down. Seriously, please do. Too many young people these days bandy around that word and then throw down exaggerations, suppositions, and opinion. If the file on Insanity says that the Shields there are at 400% Normal while Hardcore is at 200%, then Shields are twice strength on Insanity as they are on Hardcore. That is a fact. Some people say that Adepts are not fun to play on Insanity. That is an opinion.

I'm actually arguing that adepts aren't as good as the other classes which I can base in fact.  Now whether that makes them less fun is an opinion.

[Roxlimn]

 Amioran:

I would like to know what there is that can be tied to a "matter of perception" on the fact that biotics don't work on enemies having whatever form of protection. This is a restriction; if you like it or not it's another matter, but this point is not debatable and it has nothing to do on how me or you perceive it. 

How useful a power or skill is depends on your expectations of it and how you're using it.  Some guns are better than others depends on who's using and looking at them.

You must be joking. Ammo skills have some of the best skills in all the game in their ranks. Ammo piercing ammo is probably the best skill in all the game, Warp ammo and Inferno too. I don't see how you can really say that these skills can be "useless".

Eh.  Shrug.  "Best skill" implies a lot of things, and we're not really enumerating which ones those are.  In particular, are we talking about Insanity setting, and gunplay?  It's really possible to eliminate a bunch of enemies really fast in the game without using a gun at all, so having to use a gun is itself a limitation.

AP Ammo is great.  I use it a lot, myself, but "best skill?"  I'm not sure there is just one such skill.

Warp Ammo is nice, but it's always struck me as a little underpowered compared to other ammo skills.  Certainly, you'll see much greater impact from Disruptor Ammo in the early goings.  I tried going Warp Ammo for my Sentinel, until I realized that since I almost never use my gun to strip defenses anyway, having a general purpose ammo was kind of useless.  AP was better for my purposes there.

And yes, on some missions, some ammo types become rather useless.  For instance, Disruptor Ammo won't do you any good on Tuchanka.

Apart this we are not debating the usefulness of skills in ideal situations here, we are not comparing skills to acknowledge what is the "best". You try to motivate the use of some skills (as Pull or Throw) given the right circumnstance, but the point is that there should be no motive to do so. You can find an use for everything if you so want, but that's not the point. A crowd control skill to be effective should be able to actually control the field in every particular occasion given the scope of the skill, or it is simply wasted. Imagine, for example, using a spell to dominate enemies with a mental check against high intelligence targets in whatever standard RPG. Nobody would do that simply because it would be pointless from a role point of view.

I get what you're saying, but consider this: Pull and Throw are not crowd control powers.  They're single target control powers.  And yes, they've been effective in my use even on Hardcore.

I don't HAVE to use them.  But it's fun and effective to do so, so I do.  Similarly, I don't have to use an Assault Rifle as a Soldier.  I can finish the game with the Predator Pistol.  But I use the AR because it's effective and fun.

The power of a caster class (ad the Adept) resides on control; if you cannot do it from beginning you are simply filling another role or try to fulfill it in artificial ways, simple. As I said you can find a way to make everything work and maybe also be happy in the process, however this doesn't change the fact that you should not be forced to do one thing or another. You should be able to use your skills on every circumnstance given by the skill's scope and to decide for yourself when and what it is the better one, not have the game decide that for you. This is the point of the matter. 

Shrug.  Again, that is a matter of perception.  I do not have preconceived notions of what an Adept "should" or "should not" do.  It does what it does and nothing more nor less.

How the mechanics work is how the game works.  Is it bad that I can't be as effective using a Pistol as using a Rifle?  What if I want a Pistol-slinging hero who takes out enemies from clear across sniper range with one shot?  The game doesn't allow me to do that, either.

You can't use Disruptor Ammo to great effect against krogan, nor use a Pistol to snipe.  These are limitations in the game mechanics.

[matt654321]

themaxzero wrote...

My Adept controls and kills enemies on Insanity with Biotic powers. What am I doing that i'm not supposed to be doing?

Lying is something that you're doing that you aren't supposed to be doing. It's very simple. Singularity sorta works, and the other four don't do that to nearly 100% of the enemies. So no, you aren't doing that. And you still have no case for the Vanguard, who can't even use a somewhat effective singularity.

Modifié par matt654321, 04 février 2010 - 11:42 .

[Roxlimn]

 NalimX:

This may be the case, nevertheless they go down fast as hell when they are down to health. I just find it more useful to go with the next enemy with defenses after I got one down to health, hence I don't use the other-than-warp-biotic powers. I wouldn't say that they are useless, but there are things which are more useful. I played an adept on veteran and some hours on insanity. I also play a sentinel on insanity and, as I stated before, on higher difficulties he's just a better version of the adept.

You ARE going to the next enemy with defenses.  When you get one enemy in a group down to Health, you tell your squaddies to target other guys with Defense-stripping powers, Pull that guy, then simultaneously ask Miranda to Warp it once your Pull connects.  KABLOOEY!  It's a fantastic effect, and you can set it up pretty easy in most fights as long as you have more than one target in the area effect (5 meters!)

I've played an Adept clear through past Horizon and some loyalty missions on Hardcore.  Warp Explosions own groups of enemies.  I even strip mechs of just the Armor just because they're easy to Pull (since they never seek cover) to set up for the Warp explosion.

However fast you think you're clearing groups, you can't imagine how much faster it is until you're exploding them all over the place.

AlphaJarmel:

I'm actually arguing that adepts aren't as good as the other classes which I can base in fact.  Now whether that makes them less fun is an opinion.

That still isn't a fact.  It's an argument, a theory, or proposition.  Your conclusion can change based on which facts you're using.

[kelsjet]

Roxlimn wrote...

kelsjet:

Before you go about blaming pop cultural phenomena and corporations, perhaps you might want to learn the meaning of the word "fact."

This is not an intentional put-down. Seriously, please do. Too many young people these days bandy around that word and then throw down exaggerations, suppositions, and opinion. If the file on Insanity says that the Shields there are at 400% Normal while Hardcore is at 200%, then Shields are twice strength on Insanity as they are on Hardcore. That is a fact. Some people say that Adepts are not fun to play on Insanity. That is an opinion.

Roxlimn:

Before you go and tell people to read up on definitions of words, perhaps you might want to improve your reading comprehension skills.

This is not an intentional put-down. Seriously, please do. Too many illiterates these days bandy around with semantics without bothering to even read.

To help you in this quest for literacy, please observe the following facts

1. Nowhere in my post did I ever assert, presume, elude to or imply how fun the Adepts are to play. In fact, I wasn't even talking about 'fun' as a concept in my post.

2. My post was about game mechanics, which are known and are facts. Game mechanics dictate that biotic powers like throw, slam, push etc do not work on enemies with defenses. Game mechanics also dictate that ~100% of enemies on hardcore+ difficulty almost always have defenses. Hence, through basic inference (also known as common sense) you will see that the numerical decline I showed in my previous post is somewhat accurate.

3. My post was elucidating a distilled form of the argument over 40 pages worth of people are making. Almost no one is talking about 'fun'. The following quote from AlphaJarmel shows this point:

I'm actually arguing that adepts aren't as good as the other classes which I can base in fact. Now whether that makes them less fun is an opinion.

Furthermore, pretty much every single post for the past 10+ pages is repeating this same sentiment. No one is talking about how 'fun' the adept is, they are all talking about how useless the class is. Can you and your ilk really not understand this after ~50 pages of posts saying the same thing?

Again, take note, I am describing facts from which I am deducing a common sense conclusion.

Where was I talking, at all, about how fun something is?

Modifié par kelsjet, 04 février 2010 - 11:59 .

[AlphaJarmel]

Roxlimn wrote...

 NalimX:

This may be the case, nevertheless they go down fast as hell when they are down to health. I just find it more useful to go with the next enemy with defenses after I got one down to health, hence I don't use the other-than-warp-biotic powers. I wouldn't say that they are useless, but there are things which are more useful. I played an adept on veteran and some hours on insanity. I also play a sentinel on insanity and, as I stated before, on higher difficulties he's just a better version of the adept.

You ARE going to the next enemy with defenses.  When you get one enemy in a group down to Health, you tell your squaddies to target other guys with Defense-stripping powers, Pull that guy, then simultaneously ask Miranda to Warp it once your Pull connects.  KABLOOEY!  It's a fantastic effect, and you can set it up pretty easy in most fights as long as you have more than one target in the area effect (5 meters!)

I've played an Adept clear through past Horizon and some loyalty missions on Hardcore.  Warp Explosions own groups of enemies.  I even strip mechs of just the Armor just because they're easy to Pull (since they never seek cover) to set up for the Warp explosion.

However fast you think you're clearing groups, you can't imagine how much faster it is until you're exploding them all over the place.

AlphaJarmel:

I'm actually arguing that adepts aren't as good as the other classes which I can base in fact.  Now whether that makes them less fun is an opinion.

That still isn't a fact.  It's an argument, a theory, or proposition.  Your conclusion can change based on which facts you're using.

Again my conclusion is based in fact.  I have already stated my hypothesis and can cite examples that back up this hypothesis.
http://www.sciencebu...ic_method.shtml

Modifié par AlphaJarmel, 04 février 2010 - 11:52 .

[NalimX]

Roxlimn wrote...

 NalimX:

This may be the case, nevertheless they go down fast as hell when they are down to health. I just find it more useful to go with the next enemy with defenses after I got one down to health, hence I don't use the other-than-warp-biotic powers. I wouldn't say that they are useless, but there are things which are more useful. I played an adept on veteran and some hours on insanity. I also play a sentinel on insanity and, as I stated before, on higher difficulties he's just a better version of the adept.

You ARE going to the next enemy with defenses.  When you get one enemy in a group down to Health, you tell your squaddies to target other guys with Defense-stripping powers, Pull that guy, then simultaneously ask Miranda to Warp it once your Pull connects.  KABLOOEY!  It's a fantastic effect, and you can set it up pretty easy in most fights as long as you have more than one target in the area effect (5 meters!)

I've played an Adept clear through past Horizon and some loyalty missions on Hardcore.  Warp Explosions own groups of enemies.  I even strip mechs of just the Armor just because they're easy to Pull (since they never seek cover) to set up for the Warp explosion.

However fast you think you're clearing groups, you can't imagine how much faster it is until you're exploding them all over the place.

Well, we don't have to have the same opinion. Just note that I think the adept class has a problem on higher difficulties for me: I just don't use much of its abilties, because using a warp seems the better option to me, especially because of the global cooldown. However, since bioware seems to get detailed info on playing styles via Cerberus Network, I think the problem will become obvious at some point.

[Hoffburger]

Roxlimn wrote...

And yes, on some missions, some ammo types become rather useless.  For instance, Disruptor Ammo won't do you any good on Tuchanka.


I get what you're saying, but consider this: Pull and Throw are not crowd control powers.  They're single target control powers.  And yes, they've been effective in my use even on Hardcore.


You can't use Disruptor Ammo to great effect against krogan, nor use a Pistol to snipe.  These are limitations in the game mechanics.

All opinions with no evidence to back up your claims. Disruptor Ammo still overheats weapons, sure it may not be as good as AP, but it's not useless.

Your definition of crowd control is too literal. You obviously haven't played any MMOs or RPGs recently if you think being able to take a single enemy out of the fight isn't crowd control. Why waste all that time and effort to strip the defenses away from an enemy and not finish him off? What are you going to do, strip the defenses off one enemy and then keep him lifted so you can strip the defenses off of another enemy and then kill it?

Again, opinion. The Pistol can be used to snipe very easily and Disruptor Ammo overheats weapons.

Modifié par Hoffburger, 05 février 2010 - 12:19 .

[ChaosDemonHu]

ummm yaaa if a dev says you guys have bad info shes probably right ya know see what little game design i've done i usually laugh when people play a class the wrong way... but then usually they counter my original ideas with statagies i never thought of. The game has been out for a little over 2 weeks i seriously doubt any of you have unlocked every secret from that game already

Modifié par ChaosDemonHu, 05 février 2010 - 01:35 .

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Being a modder myself I know that even with extensive knowledge of game's mechanics, after releasing complicated and well thought out mod, players will still surprise me with new ideas and exploits that make the game easy.



Simply being a designer yourself you can't think of everything, you can't playtest everything. Players will always find something you haven't thought of. Then come the patches and updates.



You think that devs somehow manage to use shockwave and pull on insanity other than just for fun when enemies are almost dead? No. There's no secret adept strategy to make biotics useful on insanity.



Sure adepts are not useless but most biotics are. You can use sniper rifle or squadmates but it doesn't change the fact that you are limited to warp and singularity. Why should anyone need to pull, throw or shockwave anything that needs just another warp to die? Waste of time.

[Skemte]

.. I actually like throw alot.. Not only can it do a substantial amount of damage.. It can instanta kill alot of guys.. Its also on a really low cool down, it seemed pretty viable in veteran/hardcore at least.

[Serenum]

It would be rather intelligent to stop using the example of the Adept as a underwhelming class in insanity only. As many have stated the crux of the matter here is the gameplay limitation of the Adept's skills. Whether it's on Insanity/Veteran/Hardcore/Normal doesn't matter.

Keep the focus where it should be: why the decision was made to implement biotic powers as they are - why choose this gameplay dynamic.

And to me personally, the biggest disappointment was the misleading info of a Crowd Controlling Adept that manages the battlefield with its power. Sure, I can "kill enemies without firing a single shot" ™ but why the hell would I? Just shoot them and save yourself the time waiting for Warp to cooldown. Being my favorite class in ME1 I still played one in ME2 but it was really unsatisfying, I am now on my 3rd playthrough and trying out the Sentinel and it's a beefed up version of the Adept - more fun (personal opinion) and definitely more straightfoward tactically.

Modifié par Ser Rune, 05 février 2010 - 02:13 .

[rumination888]

Skemte wrote...

.. I actually like throw alot.. Not only can it do a substantial amount of damage.. It can instanta kill alot of guys.. Its also on a really low cool down, it seemed pretty viable in veteran/hardcore at least.

I, too, like throw. Its very useful when the enemy is near a ledge. Its instant death, the cooldown is quick, and it saves me some ammo. Instant death > pumping the enemy full of holes on Insanity.

Unfortunately(or fortunately, depending on your view).... the Sentinel comes with Throw. I said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again, the Adept is just a crappier version of the Sentinel.

Modifié par rumination888, 05 février 2010 - 02:16 .

[themaxzero]

kelsjet wrote...

themaxzero wrote...
So its all boiled down to "I can't play Insanity like I can normal?"

No you can't and I wouldn't want to.

Um..

On my soldier,
On Normal: I use 100% of my powers on 100% of enemies and blast through the game
On Insanity: I use 100% of my powers on 100% of enemies and blast through the game


On my adept,
On Normal: I use 95% of my powers on 95% of enemies and warp through the game
On Insanity: I use 5% of my powers on 1% of enemies and sit out most fights.

^
That is the discrepency people have been emphasising for the past 40+ pages in this thread. Are you trying to tell us that you still don't know wtf everyone is talking about?

/sigh
Some people just can't process simple facts. I blame WoW.
WoW and facebook.

I use Singularity and Warp on normal.

I use Singularity and Warp on Insanity.

Facts you say? How can it be facts when i'm doing what you say you can't do? Is it perhaps a learn to play issue on your part?

[themaxzero]

matt654321 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

My Adept controls and kills enemies on Insanity with Biotic powers. What am I doing that i'm not supposed to be doing?

Lying is something that you're doing that you aren't supposed to be doing. It's very simple. Singularity sorta works, and the other four don't do that to nearly 100% of the enemies. So no, you aren't doing that. And you still have no case for the Vanguard, who can't even use a somewhat effective singularity.

Lying? I'm playing it buddy. Maybe you should actually try an Adept on Insanity instead of being a forum warrior.

It's amazinly reading this thread then playing an Adept on Insanity. I wonder how many here have actually played a Adept through Insanity rather then just read forum gossip?

Modifié par themaxzero, 05 février 2010 - 04:58 .

[Roxlimn]

 kelsjet:

The only fact you're talking about is that Pull and Throw cannot be used on targets with defenses.  These powers do not comprise 95% of the Adept's arsenal on any difficulty level, and they work on nearly all enemies since they nearly all have Health at some point.

Your post had nothing to do with mechanics and everything to do with hyperbole.  Make a better case.

AlphaJarmel:

Again my conclusion is based in fact.  I have already stated my hypothesis and can cite examples that back up this hypothesis.

All conclusions that are worth discussing are based on fact.  Hypotheses are proven using reason and logic, not examples.

NalimX:

Well, we don't have to have the same opinion. Just note that I think the adept class has a problem on higher difficulties for me: I just don't use much of its abilties, because using a warp seems the better option to me, especially because of the global cooldown. However, since bioware seems to get detailed info on playing styles via Cerberus Network, I think the problem will become obvious at some point.

The problem being that most players don't use Biotics?  I'm not sure that's really going to happen, as I'm fairly sure that most players aren't even going to touch Insanity with a ten foot pole.

Using Pull-Warp is useful exactly because of global cooldown.  Instead of using Warp 3 or 4 times, Pull a nearly dead enemy, then Warp him and see the bodies fly.  This frees you sooner to use Warp on whichever enemies are still standing (mainly because Miranda doesn't cooldown as fast as you).

If you bring Jacob along, his Pull and your Warp have close cooldown speeds at higher character levels.  As long as Garrus can keep the Shields down, you can Warp Explosion the enemies to death surprisingly fast.

Hoffburger:

To the contrary, I'm presenting firsthand gameplay experience.  I'm sure you are as well, but your experience is not the only one that matters, you know.  I don't know how you're one-shotting an enemy across a battlefield with a Pistol, but I can't do that.

As for RPGs, I, in fact, played Dragon Age recently and play D&D a fair bit.

If you're using squad Disruptor Ammo, then yes, your SMG bullets are best deployed depleting enemy Shields rather than killing enemy mooks under cover.  Sometimes, it's best to Throw an enemy to somewhere where he won't be a problem for a while while you strip everyone else.  This is because I can't headshot him to death with one round using a Pistol.  YMMV.

Flash_in_the_Flesh:

If you enter play with a preconceived hypothesis, then during play, you interpret facts to suit your hypothesis, rather than use observed facts to form theories.  I did not enter play with Adept with any preconceived notion.  I viewed the trailer, but frankly, I thought it to be hogwash.  It was clearly showing the Adept in the best light, just as Sentinel and Infiltrator were shown in the best light.

I almost never get close enough to an enemy to make Tech Armor's explosive property useful, because doing so so is usually fatal, but they talk it up during the Sentinel segment.  It is useful on Veteran and Normal - on those levels, you can just stand around in the middle of the room for a while and soak hits if you have Tech Armor or Barrier.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Roxlimn wrote...

Flash_in_the_Flesh:

If you enter play with a preconceived hypothesis, then during play, you interpret facts to suit your hypothesis, rather than use observed facts to form theories.  I did not enter play with Adept with any preconceived notion.

Of course I do. Who doesn't? It's not that an adept is something new introduced in ME2. We know adept both from ME1 and from ME2 pre-release trailers. Trailers showed us an ultimate CC class. "In Mass Effect 2 no one is better at controling the battlefield than an adept and no one is better at killing enemies without firing a shot". Controling the battlefield? Well, if singularity hold is what we call controling the battlefield on hardcore and insanity then OK.

We see throw, singularity and shockwave. Now after game release we could rather say "You see all these cool powers? You won't be able to use them on higher difficulties".

Sorry for believing in what we see and hear in trailers. Sorry for knowing how biotics are supposed to work.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 05 février 2010 - 10:57 .

[themaxzero]

Flash_in_the_flesh wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

Flash_in_the_Flesh:

If you enter play with a preconceived hypothesis, then during play, you interpret facts to suit your hypothesis, rather than use observed facts to form theories.  I did not enter play with Adept with any preconceived notion.

Of course I do. Who doesn't? It's not that an adept is something new introduced in ME2. We know adept both from ME1 and from ME2 pre-release trailers. Trailers showed us an ultimate CC class. "In Mass Effect 2 no one is better at controling the battlefield than an adept and no one is better at killing enemies without firing a shot". Controling the battlefield? Well, if singularity hold is what we call controling the battlefield on hardcore and insanity then OK.

We see throw, singularity and shockwave. Now after game release we could rather say "You see all these cool powers? You won't be able to use them on higher difficulties".

Sorry for believing in what we see and hear in trailers. Sorry for knowing how biotics are supposed to work.

Shockwave falls away but Singularity and (apparently Throw) works.

"In Mass Effect 2 no one is better at controling the battlefield than
an adept and no one is better at killing enemies without firing a
shot".

Is 100% true ESPECIALLY on Insanity.

[AlphaJarmel]

Roxlimn wrote...

AlphaJarmel:

Again my conclusion is based in fact.  I have already stated my hypothesis and can cite examples that back up this hypothesis.

All conclusions that are worth discussing are based on fact.  Hypotheses are proven using reason and logic, not examples.

• Define the question
• Gather information and resources (observe)
• Form hypothesis
• Perform experiment and collect data
• Analyze data
• Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
• Publish results
• Retest (frequently done by other scientists)

^Scientific method for you

Again I have been able to use stats and examples to show that the adept is not in the top tier.  This is based on data and not personal opinion or how long I think it should take.  I can PROVE that Warp is not ideal in any scenario.  I can prove that certain guns give a higher DPS than other guns and certain classes add on to that with their class.

Modifié par AlphaJarmel, 05 février 2010 - 11:12 .