1428 réponses à ce sujet

[Archereon]

Its not that biotics are useless on hardcore/insanity, its that vanguards, who have no biotic abilities that are effective against armor and shields, are useless.

[Murmillos]

Archereon wrote...

Its not that biotics are useless on hardcore/insanity, its that vanguards, who have no biotic abilities that are effective against armor and shields, are useless.

We have a shotgun..  thats all we need

[Archereon]

We have a shotgun that can't do anything at mid range, which we have to stay at to survive at difficulties higher than veteran since we don't have fancy tech armor like sentinels.

[Costin_Razvan]

The vanguard has very great mobility, that is its major strength as a class.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

Try Eviscerator shotgun. It has longer effective range.

[Ahglock]

Murmillos wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Its not that biotics are useless on hardcore/insanity, its that vanguards, who have no biotic abilities that are effective against armor and shields, are useless.

We have a shotgun..  thats all we need

Shotgun needs some love.  I have not tried the DLC shotgun yet, just downloaded it last night, maybe it isn't full of fail. 

What I would have liked for shotgun.  Give it two modes, solid slug and shot.  Solid slug slightly better against armor works at short and medium ranges, shot mode strong against shield and health only works at short range. Also increase the ammo a bit it doesn't do enough damage to justify it. 

[Soruyao]

Actually, there's a much stronger argument for vanguards and shotguns being fine than adepts being fine. Have you guys seen any of sinosleep's videos? His name is the same on youtube, so I'd recommend looking him up.



Once you get heavy charge and the class mod evolution for faster cooldowns, you can zip around shooting people in the face. Every time you charge it brings your shields to full and you can charge fairly often.



A well played rushdown vanguard can blast through a level incredibly fast and rarely die.

[Costin_Razvan]

Biotics are useless, right? Weakest class evah?

[Soruyao]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Biotics are useless, right? Weakest class evah?

But but but, that person had to use squad powers, therefore the whole video is invalid!


...


:3

[gr00grams]

But but but, that person had to use squad powers, therefore the whole video is invalid!

Which were also all biotic moves

[Average Gatsby]

Hey, I noticed a lot of people on this thread seem very frustrated with how to use biotics effectively. I've been working on a video guide that will hopefully help you make this class be just as effective AND fun as it can. Here's the link to my post: 

Adepting Through Insanity 

You can also find me on youtube at www.youtube.com/thataveragegatsby

I'm not really going to enter in on this debate. Just come on over and see if any of the advice helps you make your biotic character more fun and successful.

[clipped_wolf]

Doesn't help with crappy ability path finding though.  It feels like it's hit-or-miss when I use a biotic ability.  My favorite moment is when my ability gets stopped by the obstacle I was using for cover.

Modifié par clipped_wolf, 13 février 2010 - 07:24 .

[thisisme8]

Average Gatsby wrote...

Hey, I noticed a lot of people on this thread seem very frustrated with how to use biotics effectively. I've been working on a video guide that will hopefully help you make this class be just as effective AND fun as it can. Here's the link to my post: 

Adepting Through Insanity 

You can also find me on youtube at www.youtube.com/thataveragegatsby

I'm not really going to enter in on this debate. Just come on over and see if any of the advice helps you make your biotic character more fun and successful.

Yes.  Anyone wanting to play an Adept, go to Average Gatsby's link.  Vanguards useless on Insanity?  Bah...  Follow the link on my sig.

[Costin_Razvan]

clipped_wolf wrote...

Doesn't help with crappy ability path finding though.  It feels like it's hit-or-miss when I use a biotic ability.  My favorite moment is when my ability gets stopped by the obstacle I was using for cover.

God forbid you should actually have to know to aim your abilities.

[Acero Azul]

people need to just learn how to use biotics instead of instantly giving up and bashing them...they work

[Average Gatsby]

I'm submitting this as evidence to the contrary

Adepts Don't Need Guns

Enjoy!

[Amioran]

Soruyao wrote...
Why do you always assume that any person who disagrees with you must not understand where you're coming from? It's arrogant.   In fact, I understand where you're coming from enough to know that we're never going to come to a consensus on this issue, so why continue grinding gears on this?    The fact that you feel that the way difficulty worked in ME1 was fine already tells me that we have vastly different expectations about what difficulty should act like, therefore what would please one of us in a difficulty setting will not please the other.

This will be my last post on this issue since we are just running in circles and there's no real point in continuing further.

I would like to know where in the hell you have read in my previous post that I think people that disagree with me don't understand where I'm coming from. What I said is that you purposely avoid arguments that you are unconfortable with. What this have to do with the above is really beyond me.

I'm sorry but it's evident that if you just continue replying to the same two or three things discarding all the others just to have a point the discussion will never evolve. I brought about a lot of argumentations, as high treath targets, motivation of CC, role and scope of skills, individual vs. absolute restrictions, etc. and you replied continually only that the way Biotics works are fine for you and you can use them all the time. 

Then about ME1 I know that there were some things that didn't work fine and I never said that the system as it was before was perfect. I said that the way biotics worked there from a theory pow was fine since it is the way on how usually all CC skills work in other RPGs, i.e. they have utility against ALL targets but with reduced results depending on rank.

Actually, I never said the game was balanced around normal mode.   I honestly have never even played normal mode.  I started on hardcore and then played through to horizon on an infiltrator and then decided it was too easy and cranked it up to insanity.  I've been on insanity since.  It's the only mode I have extensive experience with, so that may color my opinions on the matter.

For the second point, my feeling on the matter is that if adepts worked on everything, the challenge would be reduced enough that you'd effectively be playing on normal mode anyway.  The only difference would be the speed at which you can kill people indoors.  (Outdoors you could just walk around chain instakilling everything.)   The difference between normal mode and a modded .ini file seems to just be how long it takes to finish off the things you've CC'd.   I would test it out myself, but alas, I am on a 360.  Such experimentation is closed to me.

Although, I see that someone else in the topic raised difficulty by making health regenerate super slow so that you have to medi-gel yourself.  That would indeed raise difficulty enough to compensate for the change, but I wonder if most players would appreciate a setup like that.  I'm partial to regenerating health myself.

For the third point: This is the thing that we're having the most trouble with.  I think it's due to the fact that we have slightly different definitions about what a CC class is.   I feel that any ability that stops an enemy from moving and attacking for long enough to do anything else is CC.    A cc class for me is a class that spends a lot of their time locking down enemies using a CC move, regardless of what reason they have for using that CC move.   (CC can be used either offensively and defensively, and some moves lend themselves to offensive strategy better than defensive strategy.   I think the problem you're seeing in how singularity works might be related to this.   Has singularity becoming more offensively oriented CC significantly changed the role of the class for you?)

The last paragraph was not referred to you personally, but on the whole (I tought it was clear, but maybe I was wrong). These are the points that have arisen in this thread and they are all contradictions, as it is evident.

For the point about how a CC skill work I repeat: it is not how me or you see the issue, it is how a CC skill SHOULD work, given its role. A CC skill to be effective as fulfilling its role ALONE (not to be useful to do something else and using the control as a MEAN to do other things) and by ITSELF must adhere to some rules (not created by me but by the scope and role of the skill): the primary role is to remove from the fight high treaths target as fast as possible (the high treath status naturally depends on the situations) to control the battlefield.

An example of Pull used as a _real_ CC role would be using it for example against a very powerful enemy to remove it from the fight temporarily to deal with other lesser treaths in the meantime. As you use it instead is to control a low treath target as long as it is necessary for you (or squad members) to finish him/her. While the effect can be the same (the control aspect) the use is completely different. So the ROLE is changed.

Singularity _can_ retain a bit of its CC role but only in limited circumstances. In fact with high treath targets its efficency as a CC skill is very limited and in fact the skill is almost never used as the primary intention of controlling the target in itself, but or to fire a combo with Warp or to do damage in the brief time the targets are immobilized.

So, you see, the fact that you can use the skills, the fact that you still control targets etc. don't change the evidence that the role and scope are changed and I don't see why this should happen only to increase challenge.

Modifié par Amioran, 13 février 2010 - 11:28 .

[Lopake]

I think its because in ME1 when there is a boss I would just use every biotic power possible and win in seconds. I dont mind not having that option anymore.



However, I will miss Liara using all her biotics in a big fight then getting nuked immediately afterwards

[Permutation]

I would like BioWare to reintroduce power stacking. The powers are plenty effective, but waiting for all of them to cool down after using just one is such a buzzkill. May as well be turn-based.

[tetracycloide]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Biotics are useless, right? Weakest class evah?

Quite slow.  Not kidding.

[Masterfabulous]

You guys just suck.



My $0.02

[Amioran]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Biotics are useless, right? Weakest class evah?

Thank you for just proving my point.

If you are happy with that style of gameplay luck to you, only, please, don't try to call it CC, for intelligence's sake.

Be happy on spamming the same two skills over and over for all the game (not that it is needed, however, I give you that) and playing another role than the one supposed to.

Modifié par Amioran, 14 février 2010 - 10:33 .

[Amioran]

Masterfabulous wrote...

You guys just suck.

My $0.02

Yes, you are right, we suck, you don't. Now please return to troll's town where people don't understand anything at all of what is discussed on the arguments they post about.

[DukeOfNukes]

I used biotics like a mofo...both as Vanguard and as Sentinel.



Vanguard has Inferno ammo...so that takes care of armor. Take the armor off a few guys, and then send a shockwave into the middle. Easy.

[der spudmeister]

I picked an Adept on my first run (I'm still playing through it) but I'm kind of disappointed at my role. I usually have Miranda at my side so I have two Warps available but even when the shields are down, I feel so useless. I cast Singularity to flush out a couple of enemies and by the time my cooldown is done and I can use one of my other powers to send them flying skyhigh, my targets have already been killed by my teammates. All I seem to be doing is getting down enemy shields and then getting them out of cover, giving my teammates the fun of being able to finish them off.

It also occassionally happens with me that, just as I launch a Pull or something, that my teammate kills the enemy I had targeted, making my biotic attack fly by. Then I can sit back waiting for a cooldown on ALL my attacks for something that wasn't even beneficial. Not to mention that the curving isn't always as helpful as attacks often get stuck on cover, both mine and the enemy's.

Because of this I barely even use my powers anymore and just attack with my handcannon. I feel like I might as well have picked a Soldier if all I do is shoot.

I don't know, I've only just passed Horizon in the game so I still have a while to go and some levelling to do, but where I felt threatening and powerful as a biotic in ME1, I feel disappointed and useless in ME2 <_<

Modifié par der spudmeister, 14 février 2010 - 11:37 .