1428 réponses à ce sujet

[Hoffburger]

Murmillos wrote...

So there appears to be a problem with the harder modes and biotics. Your first problem was not clearly stating this.
Sadly, it took other people not whining, insulting others and throwing a fit like a 10 year old to get this point across.
Now that very simple point has been explained, and confirmed, then we can ask politely for a resolution/comment from BioWare why this was implemented as such.
Sadly, this thread is too ... full of flames for that happen. Maybe somebody more reasonable can make a new thread that clearly states this issue - not as a whine or ****fest, but as a reasonable question to BioWare why the felt biotic don't' work on shielded or armored targets - such as pull, throw, singularity and shockwave on the harder levels, but still allowing snipers to get one-shot kills in.

The better question would be why they chose to give enemies 50 health 500 armor and 500 shields.

[Eodrin]

Hoffburger actually has Avery valid point. I wonder if a dev might comment on the attractiveness of the 'guns-only' class vs the biotic user.

[jalford1980]

Hoffburger wrote...

jalford1980 wrote...

are you sure you can't use singularity on a shielded/armor target??  In understand that you can't damage them with most biotics until the def is gone, but can't singularity still be used to CC??

edit, deleted all the quotes, got to be too many of them.

Singularity, warp, and shockwave are the only biotic abilities that do anything to anything with shields/armor/barrier.

Warp does decent damage, shockwave makes them stumble slightly (does not knock back at all or anything), and singularity does pitiful damage over time (not even worth mentioning because you should be using warp instead to do 100x more damage).

Basically combat as an adept boils down to 1 word: WARP.

You just spam it over and over until the enemy is dead, that's all.

Well thats great, and it means that you do have CC, like I said, in my original post, that some people decided to rip me apart for, and try to make me look like and idiot.

I like sitting back, and using my squad.  Would i hate it if a few abilites worked on shielded enemies, no, but it doesnt change that i enjoy this playstyle, and i think many others do too.  It would not be fun for me to sit back and just use a sniper rifle to headshot eveyone, even if it is effective.  I don't care that i could just use a soldier and and not worry about issuing commands with my squad mates...i really don't.  Those classes are there for people who want that type of playstyle.  The adept is there for people who want to sit back and be a controler of the battlefield and their squad mates.  Even though its a slower playstlye. 

Does it seem wierd that headshots go through all defenses, yes.  So i can agree with you there.  And i even agree that the health/armor/shield ratio is a little borked.  But i still enjoy this to the alternative, thats just MY playstyle and preferance.

Modifié par jalford1980, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:43 .

[Eodrin]

Sorry. iPhone fat finger error.

[JMGreen]

I agree completely. The game this time around got it right because in (Mass Effect 1) the best class for the game play was the soldier and the best example for that was the Add-on content “Pinnacle Station “ in which you couldn’t beat the recorded with a Biotic or a tech specialist only with the soldier even if your character was a Sentinel or your engineer level 60. With a soldier level 35 you could do it. Now every class has new way you could play the game and itched one is effective and powerful. And if you play smart (tactical) you would enjoy the game more.

[tonnactus]

In Mass Effect 1 this was better solved.Lift for example works on everything.On krogans,krogan warlords and battlemasters,also armatures and colossi.But the deifference was the physics resistence that reduces the duration.They could just increase the resistence but shouldnt gave enemies a complete immunity to this...

[Xivai]

I wish I had a MILLION Internets. I predicted this weeks before the game came out, and yes. I too was silenced.



I couldn't beat insanity with my Adept. Too many enemies, no ammo, powers do nothing, and pistols are weak anyways.



I was in favor of nerfing the Adept, but this is... insane. He is effectively useless most of the time. I find myself using my squads powers more than my own. My own powers are "just an afterthought" on combat. 14 hours in and the only thing I can remember using was warp... nothing else works. By the time it does their health is exposed and you can just gun them down.

[Nindydar]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Not ALL Biotics are disabled by Shields OR Armor, just specific ones against specific types of resistance (tho some are both).

I'm not sure the point that difficulty should not lock out biotic powers isn't valid. Locking the powers so you can't use them is pretty harsh (tho you can't use overload on unsheilded enemies either, so your claim of bieng descrimniated against is void).

I've seen this a couple of times in this thread so I'm gonna let u guys in on a secret.... You can actually use powers if they are "red" or "disabled". If you click the power, it will still fire, the red simply means that it is going to be highly ineffective against your current target (aka overloading a target with no sheilds is entirely possible, just doesnt do anything.... unless they are wearing a flamethrower... then u get a nice boom).

On to the topic at hand, I've played through about 25 hours of the game on hardcore as an adept... and I have to agree with what is being said here. Im not looking to be overpowered but by the time I've chewed through an enemies defenses and get to where i can actually use my fun powers like throw/shockwave/sing/ext. I'm better off just shooting them twice in the head. Again, its not about difficulty, i dont want to be as OP as adept was in the first game (dont lie, adept was stupid easy in ME1) but atm spamming warp for the first 80% of the fight and then maybe having time to get off one pull before the guy dies to a strong breeze isn't all that fun... I will probably be playing engi or sentinel for my second playthrough as it is now.

[Hoffburger]

jalford1980 wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

jalford1980 wrote...

are you sure you can't use singularity on a shielded/armor target??  In understand that you can't damage them with most biotics until the def is gone, but can't singularity still be used to CC??

edit, deleted all the quotes, got to be too many of them.

Singularity, warp, and shockwave are the only biotic abilities that do anything to anything with shields/armor/barrier.

Warp does decent damage, shockwave makes them stumble slightly (does not knock back at all or anything), and singularity does pitiful damage over time (not even worth mentioning because you should be using warp instead to do 100x more damage).

Basically combat as an adept boils down to 1 word: WARP.

You just spam it over and over until the enemy is dead, that's all.

Well thats great, and it means that you do have CC, like I said, in my original post, that some people decided to rip me apart for, and try to make me look like and idiot.

I like sitting back, and using my squad.  Would i hate it if a few abilites worked on shielded enemies, no, but it doesnt change that i enjoy this playstyle, and i think many others do too.  It would not be fun for me to sit back and just use a sniper rifle to headshot eveyone, even if it is effective.  I don't care that i could just use a soldier and and not worry about issuing commands with my squad mates...i really don't.  Those classes are there for people who want that type of playstyle.  The adept is there for people who want to sit back and be a controler of the battlefield and their squad mates.  Even though its a slower playstlye. 

Does it seem wierd that headshots go through all defenses, yes.  So i can agree with you there.  And i even agree that the health/armor/shield ratio is a little borked.  But i still enjoy this to the alternative, thats just MY playstyle and preferance.

I think you misunderstood my post. When I say they are the only things that do anything and then list what they do, that is ALL they do. I guess I should've been more specific. Singularity does not CC targets with shields/armor/barrier, it just does a not even worth mentioning DoT to the target.

[Mikey_205]

Well it does look like they destroyed my favourite class. I will probably switch to infiltrator or something now. Really I'm upset they ramped up the fatality potential but why completely remove the actual utility and CC purpose of powers. In Mass Effect I never used Warp I liked actually using gravity based powers to control the fight. I mean shaping the battlefield was the point of the Adept. Warp barely even fitted in an Adepts arsenal in the first game so why force it to the forefront in the sequel. I really am not looking forward to spending the entire fight spamming one power in order to use the 4-5 that I actually like.

[dissonance-zaon]

Mikey_205 wrote...

*snip*
I really am not looking forward to spending the entire fight spamming one power in order to use the 4-5 that I actually like.

Precisely

[brgillespie]

So... sounds to me like the game's combat system was balanced around the Normal difficulty setting, with Biotic powers being given limitations on higher difficulty settings... you know, TO MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT. Who'da thunk?

Complaining about the difficulty of an added game mechanic on the higher/highest difficulty setting in the game is incredibly asinine.

Modifié par brgillespie, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:55 .

[dissonance-zaon]

brgillespie wrote...

So... sounds to me like the game's combat system was balanced around the Normal difficulty setting, with Biotic powers being given limitations on higher difficulty settings... you know, TO MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT. Who'da thunk?

Complaining about the difficulty of an added game mechanic on the higher/highest difficulty setting in the game is incredibly asinine.

So what do you play as? Infiltrator? On Insanity, does the game make you take off shields before you can look through your sniper scope?

Soldier? On Insanity, does the game make you take off shields to use Adrenaline Rush?

That would "MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT" wouldn't it? So would playing with broken fingers. Your argument is weak.

Modifié par dissonance-zaon, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:01 .

[OneDrunkMonk]

Once again I have to wonder why BioWare changed so much about the combat system from ME1 to ME2. The old system wasn't perfect but it was pretty good, it just needed a tweak not a complete overhaul. It's like they took feedback on ME1 and went overboard on it.

[Mikey_205]

Except that difficulty shouldn't be about neutering your abilities completely. It looks like biotics were neutered on harder difficulties. Do cloaking, robots, higher health and better guns become completely ineffective on harder difficulties. Seems a very contrived way to increase difficulty. The way to do this would have been to have had a toned down version of every biotic with half the effectiveness rather than none, if there is no effectiveness for 90% of a fight then whats the point in using the power or playing the class at all?

[Hoffburger]

brgillespie wrote...

So... sounds to me like the game's combat system was balanced around the Normal difficulty setting, with Biotic powers being given limitations on higher difficulty settings... you know, TO MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT. Who'da thunk?

Complaining about the difficulty of an added game mechanic on the higher/highest difficulty setting in the game is incredibly asinine.

Doesn't change the fact that on normal difficulty enemies die even faster to gunfire. Doesn't make biotics any more useful.

It does make shockwave somewhat useful, but everything else, including singularity is just meh. I tried playing an adept on normal and it was just too easy and your squad kills the enemies too quickly. You try to set up a cool pull/throw combo to send people flying off walls and your squad kills them.

[Kwonnern]

Well spoken Christina!

[GEWill]

I personally have always found Insanity pointless in Mass Effect. They should rename it "Spend 10 minutes shooting someone" mode. Anyways...

I would have been made had they carried over the God-like powers of Adepts fro ME1, that was just insane. I never planned on playing an Adept in 2, but its good to know that they aren't as powerful as they were in 1.

I love how the Vanguard and Infiltrator play in ME2, well done Bioware.

Modifié par GEWill, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:06 .

[Murmillos]

Christina Norman wrote...

I've beaten ME2 with an adept on insanity twice. There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. I don't want to tell people how to play the game, or how the rules work even, because honestly that's not the developer's role - you guys are the ones who should become experts in the game and figure out what works best. What I can say though is the information in this thread is very inaccurate.

If you're a player who hasn't experimented with higher difficulties and classes, I'll encourage you to form your own opinions rather than jumping to conclusion based on posts here.

Could you at least point out what is inaccurate?

Granted the game is "offically" only 36 hours old and there still is some growing/gameplay differences changes going on.. but there does appear to be that SOME biotic powers just don't work until the enemy has no shields or armor - at which point why even use it?..

Modifié par Murmillos, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:07 .

[tonnactus]

Mikey_205 wrote...
 Warp barely even fitted in an Adepts arsenal in the first game so why force it to the forefront in the sequel

It fits,because the adept doesnt have the weapon damage of soldiers,so warp compensate this .

Modifié par tonnactus, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:08 .

[Xivai]

Murmillos wrote...

Christina Norman wrote...

I've beaten ME2 with an adept on insanity twice. There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. I don't want to tell people how to play the game, or how the rules work even, because honestly that's not the developer's role - you guys are the ones who should become experts in the game and figure out what works best. What I can say though is the information in this thread is very inaccurate.

If you're a player who hasn't experimented with higher difficulties and classes, I'll encourage you to form your own opinions rather than jumping to conclusion based on posts here.

Could you at least point out what is inaccurate?

Granted the game is "offically" only 36 hours old and there still is some growing/gameplay differences changes going on.. but there does appear to be that SOME biotic powers just don't work until the enemy has no shields or armor - at which point why even use it?..

i agree. What is inaccurate?

[Hoffburger]

Christina Norman wrote...

I've beaten ME2 with an adept on insanity twice. There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. I don't want to tell people how to play the game, or how the rules work even, because honestly that's not the developer's role - you guys are the ones who should become experts in the game and figure out what works best. What I can say though is the information in this thread is very inaccurate.

If you're a player who hasn't experimented with higher difficulties and classes, I'll encourage you to form your own opinions rather than jumping to conclusion based on posts here.

Where is the magical upgrade that lets me use an ability other than warp on insanity? Beating the game on insanity with any class is easy. It just would've been more fun and more of a REAL challenge if you could use your abilities. As it stands it is an ARTIFICIAL challenge in the same way that silver surfer for the NES was an ARTIFICIAL challenge.

Instead of adding more armor and shields to enemies, you could've added more health to them. This would at least make abilities like singularity, shockwave, pull, and throw useful.

[tonnactus]

GEWill wrote...

I personally have always found Insanity pointless in Mass Effect. They should rename it "Spend 10 minutes shooting someone" mode.

Not with warp which i like personally...:happy:
But not as the only power.

Modifié par tonnactus, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:12 .

[Rodeolio]

Christina Norman wrote...

I've beaten ME2 with an adept on insanity twice. There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. I don't want to tell people how to play the game, or how the rules work even, because honestly that's not the developer's role - you guys are the ones who should become experts in the game and figure out what works best. What I can say though is the information in this thread is very inaccurate.

If you're a player who hasn't experimented with higher difficulties and classes, I'll encourage you to form your own opinions rather than jumping to conclusion based on posts here.

Christina, I sympathize with your position here, but quite a few of the posts in this thread are by players who have done their own experimenting with adepts on higher difficulties, and who have been disappointed.

So at best, the situation is that experienced ME1 players can find themselves frustrated and bored by adept gameplay on higher difficulties in ME2.  This means that if there is a way to get more fun out of the adept class on higher difficulties, it's very easy to miss.  The "most fun" playstyle for adepts in ME2 seems to be... not exactly obvious.

So if you do have specific tips about playing adepts on higher difficulties to get the most leverage out of all their powers (other than warp), it would be really useful to post them here.  The "biotics suck in ME2" meme is starting to gain momentum on many forums, and derailing it is in your interest, I think, even if it means giving some tips away.

At least, if you know of any gameplay primers for playing adepts in ME2 that you think are good information, could you please post a link?

[DrEvil] Throw us a frickin' bone here! [/DrEvil] 

[Rilus]

Christina Norman wrote...

I've beaten ME2 with an adept on insanity twice. There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. I don't want to tell people how to play the game, or how the rules work even, because honestly that's not the developer's role - you guys are the ones who should become experts in the game and figure out what works best. What I can say though is the information in this thread is very inaccurate.

If you're a player who hasn't experimented with higher difficulties and classes, I'll encourage you to form your own opinions rather than jumping to conclusion based on posts here.

This is great information. Stating something is innacurate without actually pointing out these accuracies. I hate to say this but you're wrong, unless you can prove us otherwise, After hours of playing my adept, I decided to give Soldier a try and the gameplay went from waiting on cooldowns and shields to go down to simply shooting until dead in a couple of shots.