1428 réponses à ce sujet

[Azreliam]

I love it when Devs smack people down and they try to argue back.

Seriously though, please continue. I have another hour to kill.

[Murmillos]

Azreliam wrote...

I love it when Devs smack people down and they try to argue back.
Seriously though, please continue. I have another hour to kill.

And what are YOU trying to prove?  that you are some how better then us?

[Chartis]

I am a biotic god! I think things -- and they happen! Fear me, lesser creatures, for I am biotics made flesh! I am the most powerful biotic ever. Smell my greatness. Fear me.

[finc.loki]

It is just another design flaw.



Removing all of the purpose of the class to make "it harder" is just a cheap way and really flawed.



Why do people want to play as an adept:

Cause you have cool magical powers that can toss things about.



Now, choose a higher difficulty and you end up as a pistol jockey.

Gone are all the cool powers, when you can actually use them, there is NO point cause a squad member kills the person.



This is not about beating the game on insanity, it is about FUN doing it.



As it is right now, playing adept on higher difficulty is like playing a soldier that can only use a pistol.

It is retarded.



What they should have done to make it harder is simply to make the enemy fire more deadly and more damaging, along with adding more health and staying power to them.



You should as the players still be able to use ALL your powers at ANY time, but they might do less damage.



All these things combined make for a much harder game, on top of that throw in a couple of more enemies and you're in for a challenge.



The difference, you're STILL the adept.



As an example the normally instant kill pull/push can be made to cause major damage instead when indoors for example.

You pull and push the floating enemy into the wall and it is cool and fun , but he is still alive.



At least you get to USE your powers.



Also I never understood how someone can talk about "inaccuracies" without actually pointing one out as an example.



Once again, this is a simple fix through a patch, but since bioware can do NO wrong and it doesn't mean the game crashes it won't happen.

Nope they rather people become bored and annoyed with their game instead.



Seriously what is the problem here Bioware? Why can't you just fix these issues?



Don't get me wrong the game is awesome, but no game is never perfect.

[finc.loki]

Azreliam wrote...

I love it when Devs smack people down and they try to argue back.
Seriously though, please continue. I have another hour to kill.

She is the lead designer for the combat and they messed up, her posting here just stating that there are inaccuracies and not even pointing them out, is NOT a smack down.
That is just a human being not able to admit mistake and say, "hey we will look into it".

A smaller struggling developer would fix this as soon as possible, but once they go big (game companies) they are never at fault, WE are.
Gaming is not suppose to be a chore and a tedium as adept is on higher difficulty.


Sorry, but I just see someone scraping a problem under the carpet.

How about pointing out the inaccuracies so we can then find out how to ENJOY the adept on higher difficulties.

Beating it on higher difficulty =/= being fun.

Modifié par finc.loki, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:49 .

[tonnactus]

So either the most people are to dumb to play a biotic class or their concerns are wright.Dozens of those threads exists now,not only in the bioware forum.

Modifié par tonnactus, 27 janvier 2010 - 11:55 .

[Pauzed]

JMGreen wrote...

I agree completely. The game this time around got it right because in (Mass Effect 1) the best class for the game play was the soldier and the best example for that was the Add-on content “Pinnacle Station “ in which you couldn’t beat the recorded with a Biotic or a tech specialist only with the soldier even if your character was a Sentinel or your engineer level 60. With a soldier level 35 you could do it. Now every class has new way you could play the game and itched one is effective and powerful. And if you play smart (tactical) you would enjoy the game more.

Ive beaten it on two different adepts on insane using the pistol and im sure others have for the other classes. So uh, ya. But that aside, even though I cant play till the 29th with the silly EU release date it sounds like people just havnt gotten the hang of the class and the system changes, esp when one or two compare it to using a sniper to head shot stuff . The ones losing hope for their adepts when they havnt even gotten the game yet because a few people dont like it are priceless though, my brother didnt like biotics in ME1 that must mean Id never like them right! :innocent:

Mikey_205 wrote...

In Mass
Effect I never used Warp I liked actually using gravity based powers to
control the fight. I mean shaping the battlefield was the point of the
Adept. Warp barely even fitted in an Adepts arsenal in the first game
so why force it to the forefront in the sequel. I really am not looking
forward to spending the entire fight spamming one power in order to use
the 4-5 that I actually like.

Not using warp? Man you were missing out, warp was an awesome skill in ME1, even more so as Nemesis. Immune users? High HP enemies? On Insane? Pff warp makes them so squishy I have to check im actually on insane.

[tonnactus]

Warp was the most underrated talent in the first mass effect.Nothing else worked better against krogan warlords.

Modifié par tonnactus, 28 janvier 2010 - 12:03 .

[Lycid]

Hoffburger wrote...

jalford1980 wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

Hoffburger wrote...

jalford1980 wrote...

The biotic is not going to do as much damage as an infiltrator or a soldier plain and simple.  Why, because they have crowd control.  The idea here is that you use your whole squad, unlike ME1 where you pretty much just played the main character and prayed the rest of the pary didn't die.

Also, if you have 2 biotic users in a group, you can combine there abilies for more damage, or just use your own with smart cooldown usage.  So think of you squad as a whole, use all the abilities together, and you will find that they mesh well together.

Now if you are not the type of player who wants to do that, play an infiltrator or soldier, and just blast your way through. I prefer to sit back and take things more tacticly, as i prefer RPG's to straight up FPS.  I enjoy my biotic they way he is.  Would i love to be able to be a one man wrecking ball of biotic pain, yes, but it would prob be unbalanced since i would not only be able to take people out of the fight, but i could also 1 shot them.

Do you even have the game? If so have you even tried any difficulty other than casual? Adepts have ZERO crowd control.

Also @ the BIoWare guy, sorry for getting a little angry, people were just posting without reading and that irks me. Having to repeat myself 10 times isn't fun.

ZOMG MAN!  Its actually a challenge to play an Adept on Insanity difficulty?!?!?!?!? who would have guessed they'd make the hardest difficulty hard.  Blasphemy I say.

See what I mean? These kids can't even read. So I'll have to repeat myself again. Actually no, I wont, go back and reread the damn thread dude.

First off, stop calling everyone kids, it make you look like and idiot, and in fact makes people think you are one.
Second, if you can explain to me how singularity, throw, and pull aren't CC, I swear to you I will never post again.

I'll give you a WoW anology. Take a mage. Take polymorph and make it only usable on enemies that are below 10% health. Would you still call this CC? Would you actually waste the time to get them down to 10% and then waste more time to CC them or would you finish them off real quick?

Crowd control kind've implies that you can control an enemy or group of enemies so that you can focus your abilities on another. What is the point of using crowd control on an enemy when you have to focus fire him down to near death in the first place? Yes, you COULD shoot all of the enemies down to health and then use pull/singularity or you could just shoot them 1-2 more times.

Lol. I guessed that you play WoW from your first post.

GO BACK TO WoW, idiot, we dont want terrible and whiny players like you here.

[Mikey_205]

Well I would not play a Mage in DA:O if everything was immune to hold, forcefield, being frozen and I had to play the class using only staff damage and a damage spell  on Hard difficulty. I mean come on the best thing about playing a character like a Mage or Adept is disabling the harder enemies or using wide area attacks on weaker enemies to help the rest of the team. I get why instant death attacks have to be toned down but from what people are reporting you cant even disable the majority of enemies on harder difficulties.

I hope Christina's right when I get my copy tomorrow but I've been worried about this ever since I learned about shields and armour.

Modifié par Mikey_205, 28 janvier 2010 - 12:13 .

[Hoffburger]

Pauzed wrote...

JMGreen wrote...

I agree completely. The game this time around got it right because in (Mass Effect 1) the best class for the game play was the soldier and the best example for that was the Add-on content “Pinnacle Station “ in which you couldn’t beat the recorded with a Biotic or a tech specialist only with the soldier even if your character was a Sentinel or your engineer level 60. With a soldier level 35 you could do it. Now every class has new way you could play the game and itched one is effective and powerful. And if you play smart (tactical) you would enjoy the game more.

Ive beaten it on two different adepts on insane using the pistol and im sure others have for the other classes. So uh, ya. But that aside, even though I cant play till the 29th with the silly EU release date it sounds like people just havnt gotten the hang of the class and the system changes, esp when one or two compare it to using a sniper to head shot stuff . The ones losing hope for their adepts when they havnt even gotten the game yet because a few people dont like it are priceless though, my brother didnt like biotics in ME1 that must mean Id never like them right! :innocent:

Mikey_205 wrote...

In Mass
Effect I never used Warp I liked actually using gravity based powers to
control the fight. I mean shaping the battlefield was the point of the
Adept. Warp barely even fitted in an Adepts arsenal in the first game
so why force it to the forefront in the sequel. I really am not looking
forward to spending the entire fight spamming one power in order to use
the 4-5 that I actually like.

Not using warp? Man you were missing out, warp was an awesome skill in ME1, even more so as Nemesis. Immune users? High HP enemies? On Insane? Pff warp makes them so squishy I have to check im actually on insane.

As a very skilled FPS player and gamer in general, there is nothing you can do in hardcore/insanity as an adept other than max out nemesis, warp, and spam warp like mad. Use miranda for the squad damage bonus and zaeed for the retarded damage bonus his class gets.

I have also played an infiltrator and yes, you can 1 shot normal enemies with a headshot. It takes 2-3 warps as a biotic to accomplish the same feat. No, ammo isn't hard to come by, especially if you have good aim. Tactical cloak means you don't need barrier or fortify so you can use an offensive bonus. Soldier and infiltrator are far and away the most optimal classes for hardcore/insane, but that really isn't the overall point.

The whole point was that biotics simply aren't fun with the current system. Spamming warp =/= fun.

[manyfistss]

That sucks, perhaps they can patch it or at least allow biotics rip through armor which they should.

[Murmillos]

manyfistss wrote...

That sucks, perhaps they can patch it or at least allow biotics rip through armor which they should.

The biggest problem is the lack of being able to use CC abilties on all but the near dead.  I should be able to walk in a room and at least be able to disable half of them with out having to nearly kill them before my CC is useful. 

Maybe a evolved strong pull/throw (instead of field) works on a fully shielded enemy, I havn't leveled up enough yet to test that.  Maybe somebody else has and can chime in. (insanity difficulty of course) 

Modifié par Murmillos, 28 janvier 2010 - 12:23 .

[tommythetomcat]

manyfistss wrote...

That sucks, perhaps they can patch it or at least allow biotics rip through armor which they should.

They do, sadly real information gets lost in the thread, my only complaint is that armor shouldn't negate biotic powers(by power I mean the crowd control function the still do damage to armor).  Barrier and Shields I'm ok with, and of course for special enemies or mini bosses its cool if I can't CC them.  But just regular foot soldiers armor magically stops it is kind of annoying.  

[FieryDove]

They had to do it to something. In ME1 the engineer felt gimp, now it's good or at least better so the ME1 *godmode* biotic has more to deal with in 2. In ME3...well that will be the same again only a different complaint I'm sure as it evolves all over again.

[Soruyao]

I've been playing as an infiltrator on hardcore, and yes, I can oneshot the normal enemies with my sniper rifles, however there are a lot of enemies that are stronger than them. (They seem to have twice to three times as much shields.) It takes about 4 headshots to take them down if I don't take down their shields with my squad. This means if I don't switch to powers and just try to snipe everything, I run out of ammo very quickly and have to resort to pistols.



The best way to do it as an infiltrator is to use something else to take their shields/armor down first and then headshot them. Effectively when I do that, its the same as using a biotic power for a finisher.



I've been running with Suze with a maxed out shockwave, and I've been de-shielding things with my pistols for her and having her ragdoll them all around and it's been way more effective than just mindlessly sniping things. I suspect this is similar to what playing as an adept will be like, but that's my next playthrough.



I think after players have put more time into the game and shared some strategies, the community will start warming up to adepts as very effective. We'll see.



But at the very least, we can all agree that adepts have the most entertaining and varied ways to finish people off. FINISH HIM!

[kab]

Christina Norman wrote...

I've beaten ME2 with an adept on insanity twice. There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread. I don't want to tell people how to play the game, or how the rules work even, because honestly that's not the developer's role - you guys are the ones who should become experts in the game and figure out what works best. What I can say though is the information in this thread is very inaccurate.

If you're a player who hasn't experimented with higher difficulties and classes, I'll encourage you to form your own opinions rather than jumping to conclusion based on posts here.

If you're going to make a statement like this then you need to give details on what is inaccurate.  As it stands this post is little more than "the game works because I say so".  That argument doesn't work for 5 year olds and it certainly doesn't work for professional software developers.  I would love to be wrong, so show us what's inaccurate and how exactly Adept powers are actually powerful relative to and compared to guns & tech skills at difficulties above normal.

Modifié par kab, 28 janvier 2010 - 12:30 .

[Rodeolio]

Thanks Christina, I appreciate the direct reply, and I understand the no-win situation you're in as far as posting specifics and getting debated to death by angry fans :-)



I do have just one more request: you said, "My only intent in posting here was to state, as I've stated, that some of the information presented as fact in this discussion is simply not true."



Can you please be specific about *exactly what information is incorrect*? Rules clarifications don't seem out of line for you to provide here -- they're not the same as gameplay advice. If there are specific things being said here that are wrong, setting the record straight would be very much appreciated.



Otherwise, it will only increase the frustration among the people whom you're calling incorrect (without actually correcting them), and the people like myself who just want to understand the actual situation before committing to a class choice.

[kab]

The above is another example of why I'm not going to get involved in any kind of debate here. I have my opinions on issues, they're no more valid than any other player's opinion, and debating in the forums is counter productive!

You just did get involved. The "I don't want to get involved" line doesn't really work when you come here and voluntarily involve yourself. What you haven't done is actually backed up your assertion with anything at all. I'm really dying for you to tell us the relevant inaccuracies in this thread and address the points made in this thread. I can beat it on Insanity with an Adept too -- that doesn't mean the biotic powers aren't completely useless.

[Pauzed]

Hoffburger wrote...

I have also played an infiltrator and yes, you can 1 shot normal enemies with a headshot. It takes 2-3 warps as a biotic to accomplish the same feat. No, ammo isn't hard to come by, especially if you have good aim. Tactical cloak means you don't need barrier or fortify so you can use an offensive bonus. Soldier and infiltrator are far and away the most optimal classes for hardcore/insane, but that really isn't the overall point.

The whole point was that biotics simply aren't fun with the current system. Spamming warp =/= fun.

Well if the threads still going on the weekend Ill come back and post my thoughts once Ive got my hands on it for myself. But by "normal enemies" do you mean the ones with just a health bar or what? Because I cant see warping those being a very effective tactic in the first place.

[Soruyao]

Rodeolio wrote...

Thanks Christina, I appreciate the direct reply, and I understand the no-win situation you're in as far as posting specifics and getting debated to death by angry fans :-)

I do have just one more request: you said, "My only intent in posting here was to state, as I've stated, that some of the information presented as fact in this discussion is simply not true."

Can you please be specific about *exactly what information is incorrect*? Rules clarifications don't seem out of line for you to provide here -- they're not the same as gameplay advice. If there are specific things being said here that are wrong, setting the record straight would be very much appreciated.

Otherwise, it will only increase the frustration among the people whom you're calling incorrect (without actually correcting them), and the people like myself who just want to understand the actual situation before committing to a class choice.

She basically issued us (the community) a challenge and an opportunity.  We are going to be able to enjoy for ourselves the process of learning how to utilize a class for a maximum of fun and effectiveness.

We have been informed by someone who has been playing the game for two years that such strategies are there, but that they work and are theoretically fun and powerful when used correctly.    I'm more willing to believe someone who's been playing something for two years (and even knows the math and things behind everything) over someone who's been playing two days.   It's possible this class has a higher difficulty curve (to having fun or whatever) than other classes, but once you get it down it could be amazing.   We won't know until we've put some solid time into this as a community.

It'll feel really good to be the people who actually did start to propagate those strategies and made the class more fun for ourselves and others.   It's possible she's done us a favor.  Even though that means she'll be flamed even more by people who are impatient to learn what these things are or that don't believe her.  It's really a little selfless to be willing to get flamed like that to do a favor for people who won't appreciate it.

[tommythetomcat]

kab wrote...

The above is another example of why I'm not going to get involved in any kind of debate here. I have my opinions on issues, they're no more valid than any other player's opinion, and debating in the forums is counter productive!

You just did get involved. The "I don't want to get involved" line doesn't really work when you come here and voluntarily involve yourself. What you haven't done is actually backed up your assertion with anything at all. I'm really dying for you to tell us the relevant inaccuracies in this thread and address the points made in this thread. I can beat it on Insanity with an Adept too -- that doesn't mean the biotic powers aren't completely useless.

Stop trying to argue and instead ask politely what has been portrayed as inaccurate information.  If you try to be confrontational then no one is going to want to discuss anything with you.

[Mikey_205]

I think I would mind the idea of this less if the Adept didnt have 4 (seemingly redundant) finishers and initially one power to use to break an enemies defences which would need to be spammed. I'm sure it's less tedious with guns, ally powers and bonus talents, but it doesnt seem as fun as actually using your whole range of abilities through the fight.



A much better mix would have been 2 defense breakers, 1 CC move which didnt have this component completely negated by defense and 2 finishers (with CC effects as well).

[kab]

Well if the threads still going on the weekend Ill come back and post my thoughts once Ive got my hands on it for myself. But by "normal enemies" do you mean the ones with just a health bar or what? Because I cant see warping those being a very effective tactic in the first place.

It's not. I haven't found a single thing with just a health bar that is worth using biotics on, yet. The reason is what has been stated here repeatedly, if they have nothing but health yet, then they're so close to death there's no reason to use the biotic. Even as an Adept I could remove them from combat faster with my pistol than I can CC or kill them with biotics.



For those that don't have just a health bar and have armor or shields left, well then there's really no point there either. I keep hearing that biotics work on those, but the fact is they don't. Even as an Adept my pistol is, once again, more effective. Once you get them down to nothing but health sure you can use biotics, but then it goes back to my first paragraph, there's no point because they're almost dead anyway and you can finish them off with a weapon faster than you can CC or damage them.



For biotics, as they are now, to really be useful they need to be more effective against targets with shields or armor. Now, if Christina has played her game and knows ways to be more effective with biotics then I want to hear it. If something I've said is inaccurate I'd like to know, because then I might understand and actually find biotics enjoyable without being forced to play on "Normal" which is not much fun because it's so obscenely easy.

[mawmaw17]

So the process of combat for a biotic is:

1. Disable shields (ie Overload, weapons fire, etc.)

2. Use Warp on armor to weaken it then use weapons fire etc.

3. Use Biotic power appropriate to deal with target (ex. Throw for single and singularity for multiple targets) and use weapons fire to finish off.



So what do we make of this?