200 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

I don't care to get into any meaningless arguments about the definition of an RPG, but story paths are obviously limited, given the medium, and not everything is necessarily worth the investment, or even possible to do. Like, hiring several people to voice a single cameo might be a total waste of time and money, more so if it's expected to do little more than get dumped on by fans (which I believe it absolutely would).

 

Making a complete plot line that involves a super important Dark Ritual also requires writing its parallel, and it has to have equal weight somehow, otherwise you're basically left with a vacuum in the story for those that told Morrigan to shove off. How many branches can the story realistically split off into before it becomes a humongous, overly expensive mess?

 

Whatevs. I think people have ideas about the Warden's reappearance that are far too lofty. Frankly, I hope this character simply slips into oblivion for all time, because I feel the character's ruination is inevitable if they bother trying to throw a bone to fans that simply can't let go of this now invisible NPC.

[Xilizhra]

I don't care to get into any meaningless arguments about the definition of an RPG, but story paths are obviously limited, given the medium, and not everything is necessarily worth the investment, or even possible to do. Like, hiring several people to voice a single cameo might be a total waste of time and money, more so if it's expected to do little more than get dumped on by fans (which I believe it absolutely would).

 

Making a complete plot line that involves a super important Dark Ritual also requires writing its parallel, and it has to have equal weight somehow, otherwise you're basically left with a vacuum in the story for those that told Morrigan to shove off. How many branches can the story realistically split off into before it becomes a humongous, overly expensive mess?

 

Whatevs. I think people have ideas about the Warden's reappearance that are far too lofty. Frankly, I hope this character simply slips into oblivion for all time, because I feel the character's ruination is inevitable if they bother trying to throw a bone to fans that simply can't let go of this now invisible NPC.

Why would it be a vacuum? People who told Morrigan not to do that would logically accept that they would then lack any future content related to that choice, yes?

[Han Shot First]

I'm not sure what people were really expecting of the Dark Ritual, but its potential to play a huge part later pretty much dies with the possibility of stopping it in its tracks. The same thing happened to the Collector base.

 

You're wrong about the voice being a ridiculous excuse, especially when trying to use fixed characters like Alistair or Loghain as examples. The Warden actually requires 4 separate VO's at the minimum when accounting for race and gender, 6 if they actually gave the Dalish Warden the proper accent. And on top of that, a dead Warden world state basically requires 2 extra voices for the Orlesian Warden-Commander, assuming that this character is meant to do whatever our Warden would have been doing. Why should they invest in so many extra voice actors/actresses just to have one character and its possible substitute appear?

 

If the Warden is going to come back at all in the DA series, it should probably be in a cameo similar to Hawke's in DAI rather than as a player character. A cameo wouldn't too difficult to implement. You'd just need to have a character creator option like they had with Hawke, but with the inclusion of a choice between two voice actors per gender. I think that would cover the Warden reasonably well, particularly since he or she was largely unvoiced in the first game.

 

As for the Dalish accent, the clan featured in DA:O had American accents. So they'd just need two British actors for both gender versions of Cousland, Amell, or Tabris Wardens, and two American actors of both genders for the Dalish or Dwarven Wardens.

[KaiserShep]

Why would it be a vacuum? People who told Morrigan not to do that would logically accept that they would then lack any future content related to that choice, yes?

 

Sure, they might not have certain lines of dialogue, an NPC might be missing, and perhaps lack a cut scene or two, but major plot developments are something different. Like, in this hypothetical story where the dark ritual is actually integral to some major story arc, how do you write it so that the story can resolve itself without it? I'm responding to the idea that this was supposed to be this super important thing, but this super important thing can simply not exist, so how do you account for that?

[KaiserShep]

If the Warden is going to come back at all in the DA series, it should probably be in a cameo similar to Hawke's in DAI rather than as a player character. A cameo wouldn't too difficult to implement. You'd just need to have a character creator option like they had with Hawke, but with the inclusion of a choice between two voice actors per gender. I think that would cover the Warden reasonably well, particularly since he or she was largely unvoiced in the first game.

 

As for the Dalish accent, the clan featured in DA:O had American accents. So they'd just need two British actors for both gender versions of Cousland, Amell, or Tabris Wardens, and two American actors of both genders for the Dalish or Dwarven Wardens.

 

Yeah a cameo was what I had in mind, but I simply do not trust BioWare to be able to pull it off effectively. I don't think Hawke was done all that well, and this character is far simpler to implement than the Warden.

 

My thing is, it's not so much that the Warden didn't speak, or that the new voices wouldn't sound like the generic battle calls (I couldn't care less about the difference), but rather the portrayal of the character as an NPC. I feel like this is something that they'll never really nail, and should just let go of.

 

As for the Dalish accent, needless to say the American accent for the Dalish is dead. It would either be the extra accent or just share the British default with human, though if it goes like Inquisition, you'd simply choose on a slider.

[Rocknife]

My point was, if we were given choices, those must have been meaningful and functional. If you tell Morrigan to shove off, either the Warden or Alistair/Loghain dies. If not, they both live. If a world state that the warden dies exists, then so should a world state where the warden keeps living if it was actually a choice. If something so simple is unachievable, then they should've thought about this when they were making the ritual scene. I just spoke my mind and forgive me for not blindly accepting anything that I do not find logical. If I am buying a game that writes "role playing game" on it, I expect my decisions (at least the major ones) affect the future events and characters. What if it not exists you say? Then an according future event happens. What if it exists dare I ask? Then it is only natural to change the future events accordingly, it is only logical. If their resources are not enough to make a roleplaying game with a few alternative outcomes (which I doubt) then perhaps they shouldn't have made it or called it a roleplaying game. What is the point being given choices if it will not have any impact on the outcome?

 

If the voice is such a huge problem, the Warden actually had voice options in DAO lest you forgot, only the dialogues were not voiced. The Warden was commenting on sighting darkspawn and falling uncounscious. Bioware could use the same voice actors if it is such a big deal. But that is not my point in the end. What I refuse to accept is the illusion of choices. Regardless of the decisions, everything ends up the same way they were meant to. How is that a roleplaying game?

 

And about the resources. just like Bioware, I have my own resources as well. If we cannot expect them to use their resources to make this game a truly rpg as they claim to, then no one can expect me to use my own resources to buy a game that I do not think is a roleplaying game. This is what I said earlier. After realizing that none of my decisions actually matter and "The Keep" is just for the show for the most parts, then I find myself no longer wanting to spend more money on future DLCs and games that will keep the tradition of not caring for my choices.

[guntar74]

If it means I can get me some awakened darkspawn into my inquisition I'm all for it!! Then my Inquisition will spread the blight!!...er I mean chant of light..ya...

[Marika Haliwell]

I would love my warden with a voice just finished DAOA right now and can't wait to play DA@ then DAi ..so please! i want my warden to find the cure and finally to be with her true love Alistair :!!!!

[DanteYoda]

While i'd love to get hyped for this... but that last DLC being $24.99 for Aussie was just rude and i just can't in good faith pay that for a DLC it just hurts me morally.

[cindercatz]

Yeah a cameo was what I had in mind, but I simply do not trust BioWare to be able to pull it off effectively. I don't think Hawke was done all that well, and this character is far simpler to implement than the Warden.

My thing is, it's not so much that the Warden didn't speak, or that the new voices wouldn't sound like the generic battle calls (I couldn't care less about the difference), but rather the portrayal of the character as an NPC. I feel like this is something that they'll never really nail, and should just let go of.

As for the Dalish accent, needless to say the American accent for the Dalish is dead. It would either be the extra accent or just share the British default with human, though if it goes like Inquisition, you'd simply choose on a slider.

It's just a question of implementation, and that's simple. If they don't get it right, honestly, it's because their priorities were in the wrong place. All that would say is that they don't value our characterization of our PCs enough, maybe that they don't like the idea of variable characters really having any kind of central place. All I could say to that is they have the wrong idea, and they're making it appear a lot more difficult to accomplish than it actually is. The toughest thing isn't the Warden's personality or motivation or voice or whatever; it's just trying to include the other related characters. That expense could be mitigated by including those characters regardless of whether they were romanced or killed off in somebody's pt or what have you. If a character should logically appear, they do so, if not then not. Then it's just a matter of alternate dialogue around simple binary stances you could determine with dialogue or a short checklist. It's not so hard. It's really about how reluctant they are to centrally feature characters they don't have total conceptual control over.

Hawke's bloodmage stance and whatever are only an issue to people that care about that because BioWare chose not to give us an option, not because it's so difficult to do. And they probably made that choice because of Hawke's split vocal personality, because they thought, 'Uh, no, that one alternate line of dialogue needs six variables. Word budget, no good. ' The Warden, Inquisitor, and any future pc don't have that problem. Instead of six, there's two. Instead of 12 given a choice for that line, there's four. It's more than doable.

edit: Obviously if a character died, they just wouldn't show unless their death was easy to explain away. The Warden themself is an either/or with DA:A's. Yes, they'd need another accent, not necessarily another voice actor.

[Lumix19]

It's just a question of implementation, and that's simple. If they don't get it right, honestly, it's because their priorities were in the wrong place. All that would say is that they don't value our characterization of our PCs enough, maybe that they don't like the idea of variable characters really having any kind of central place. All I could say to that is they have the wrong idea, and they're making it appear a lot more difficult to accomplish than it actually is. The toughest thing isn't the Warden's personality or motivation or voice or whatever; it's just trying to include the other related characters. That expense could be mitigated by including those characters regardless of whether they were romanced or killed off in somebody's pt or what have you. If a character should logically appear, they do so, if not then not. Then it's just a matter of alternate dialogue around simple binary stances you could determine with dialogue or a short checklist. It's not so hard. It's really about how reluctant they are to centrally feature characters they don't have total conceptual control over.

Hawke's bloodmage stance and whatever are only an issue to people that care about that because BioWare chose not to give us an option, not because it's so difficult to do. And they probably made that choice because of Hawke's split vocal personality, because they thought, 'Uh, no, that one alternate line of dialogue needs six variables. Word budget, no good. ' The Warden, Inquisitor, and any future pc don't have that problem. Instead of six, there's two. Instead of 12 given a choice for that line, there's four. It's more than doable.

Do you mean a bit like ME3? Where people like Mordin and Wrex would show up but if they died beforehand they had stand-ins instead?

[Sunnie]

I would love my warden with a voice just finished DAOA right now and can't wait to play DA@ then DAi ..so please! i want my warden to find the cure and finally to be with her true love Alistair :!!!!

Laidlaw already said that the Warden will not be making any appearances in any future DLC.

[leaguer of one]

Hawke's bloodmage stance and whatever are only an issue to people that care about that because BioWare chose not to give us an option, not because it's so difficult to do. And they probably made that choice because of Hawke's split vocal personality, because they thought, 'Uh, no, that one alternate line of dialogue needs six variables. Word budget, no good. ' The Warden, Inquisitor, and any future pc don't have that problem. Instead of six, there's two. Instead of 12 given a choice for that line, there's four. It's more than doable.

 

Are we forgetting how big of an impact blood magic had on Hawke's life? Every quest that has it in da2 always ends in tragedy for someone. 

If you go through all that and have no issues with blood magic, then you have issues.

[KaiserShep]

Are we forgetting how big of an impact blood magic had on Hawke's life? Every quest that has it in da2 always ends in tragedy for someone. 

If you go through all that and have no issues with blood magic, then you have issues.

 

Really, the most they could even do is to simply have Hawke say nothing on the subject, but then you'd have people who played Hawkes that are totally against blood magic and remember all the crazy magical nonsense that happened to him/her wonder why the hell Hawke doesn't seem to care. Win, biower cannot.

[cindercatz]

Are we forgetting how big of an impact blood magic had on Hawke's life? Every quest that has it in da2 always ends in tragedy for someone. 
If you go through all that and have no issues with blood magic, then you have issues.

I agree. But that's the main complaint I've seen, only reasonable one besides the LIs not showing up. And I bet that's really why we weren't given that choice.

[cindercatz]

Do you mean a bit like ME3? Where people like Mordin and Wrex would show up but if they died beforehand they had stand-ins instead?

I meant that stand ins aren't even necessary, other than The DA:O/A Warden swap. If a character should be there, they should be there unless they're irrefutably dead, in which case they'd just be absent along with whatever content that was strictly theirs.

[JadeDragon]

Hopefully we will at least get some of the awakening companions to make a cameo. Oghren and Nathaniel seem like the best bet considering they are they only ones with keep choices. Anders obviously wont be a choice. I would like to see Sigrun make a way in there. And velanna would be cool if only she explains what happened when she vanished from the wardens.

[line_genrou]

I don't care to get into any meaningless arguments about the definition of an RPG, but story paths are obviously limited, given the medium, and not everything is necessarily worth the investment, or even possible to do. Like, hiring several people to voice a single cameo might be a total waste of time and money, more so if it's expected to do little more than get dumped on by fans (which I believe it absolutely would).

 

Making a complete plot line that involves a super important Dark Ritual also requires writing its parallel, and it has to have equal weight somehow, otherwise you're basically left with a vacuum in the story for those that told Morrigan to shove off. How many branches can the story realistically split off into before it becomes a humongous, overly expensive mess?

 

Whatevs. I think people have ideas about the Warden's reappearance that are far too lofty. Frankly, I hope this character simply slips into oblivion for all time, because I feel the character's ruination is inevitable if they bother trying to throw a bone to fans that simply can't let go of this now invisible NPC.

 

I rather they don't touch my warden because I'm sure they're gonna ruin it and I won't have it

[Sunnie]

I rather they don't touch my warden because I'm sure they're gonna ruin it and I won't have it

Funny that you say this, because, when asked about the Warden making future appearances...
 
 

Pretty unlikely, which I know disappoints some folks, but I have some pretty serious concerns about making a character who had no voice suddenly have one. It feels as if it will be dissonant. The Warden is and was an awesome character, and I don't want to risk "wrecking" those memories, even unintentionally.

[MisterJB]

 

Guys? Is this real? 

Is that the Architect? 

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

 

Guys? Is this real? 

Is that the Architect? 

Looks like him. The title on it also works for him. But April 16th? So soon?

 

Canada doesn't do April Fools early, right? o.O

 

And why is the word "collectors" on the left column spelled with a "K"? This from Europe somewhere?

[FiveThreeTen]

Confirmed fake in the twitter thread apparently.

[o Ventus]

 

And why is the word "collectors" on the left column spelled with a "K"? This from Europe somewhere?

It's Mortal Kombat X's Kollectors Edition.

[Steppenwolf]

Bioware had no right to drop Oghren out of the game and make no mention of his whereabouts.

Get it together. Jesus...