184 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

I still think humans are going to be the only option. Its far easier to write and far easier for most people to relate to. Also unlike the other species it is far easier for us to jump into our own shoes as human and go around the galaxy seeing it from human perspective. Also gives a better place to play off the differences of other species compared to humans. Allows for establishment of species without an in-depth info dump on who they are or what they do. 

After all batarians=slavers/pirates/thugs, quick and easy established in ME1 and stays true for most of the games. Then asari=art/diplomacy/biotic babes. Turians=militaristic/Space romans/garrus. Quarians=suits/techies/sexy accent(for me at least, I love Tali's accent and voice plus admiral Xen's voice, Claudia Black) and so on. You can of course ask deeper about culture and society, get codex entries that you read through to get a deeper understanding but that first impression, that thing that allows you to immediately grasp what the other species main points are would be a bit off when playing as a different species than human. 

I know it would have been interesting to play as other species but I prefer for the ME writers to create a more deeply personal story about a human than divide their time and resources writing 6 different protagonists(asari,turians,quarians,salarians,humans,krogan). 

 

 

 

That bolded part is the same reason why I only want to see a single (human) protagonist, despite me finding humans to be the more 'mundane' aspects of whatever fictional universe we find ourselves in. 

 

 

I would love to play as a Salarian, to see the story and NPCs react to my racial choice in a deep and meaningful way, but I know that this is not going to happen. Dragon Age: Inquisition may have had the option to play as a Dwarf, but it was entirely cosmetic. I can count on one hand the number of times that the game actually reacted to my being a Dwarf that was more than someone literally saying:

 

"Hey, you're a Dwarf." 

 

 

I would prefer a deeply personal, customizable, and reactive narrative, to simply playing as a re-skinned human. If Dragon Age: Inquisition only had humans (and maybe elves) as playable choices, would we have gotten more personalized and less generic story content? Would we have maybe been able to travel to Orzammar again if BioWare didn't have to devote resources to making Dwarves and Qunari playable?

 

 

 

Of course there is a way for us to have our cake and eat it too, but most people refuse to go that route. Look at how much reactivity and variance we had in DA:O/DA:A vs. DA:I, a silent protagonist opens up a lot of doors that a voiced protagonist is locked out of.

[katamuro]

 

 

Of course there is a way for us to have our cake and eat it too, but most people refuse to go that route. Look at how much reactivity and variance we had in DA:O/DA:A vs. DA:I, a silent protagonist opens up a lot of doors that a voiced protagonist is locked out of.

 

Yeah silent protagonist works but I have to say that I loved when they made Hawke in DA2. I loved playing the humorous snarky Hawke and its one of the reasons why I didnt hate DA2 as much as some people. 

Which is why I think for Bioware and for games like ME its important to have voiced main characters especially when its done by such talented voice actors. 

I actually enjoy playing human or more or less human characters most of the standard fantasy races dont really excite me and I am afraid I would spend too much time trying to think whats going on with my character if I played an alien in ME, trying to play them as they are presented instead of playing as if I was them. 

[Barquiel]

I really hope they tone down the "humans are special" thing in the next game. It would be nice for someone else to hold the trump card occasionally.

[katamuro]

I really hope they tone down the "humans are special" thing in the next game. It would be nice for someone else to hold the trump card occasionally.

 

Humans were made special only in the last game. And what trump card? Turians have a huge empire, they are not as easy to kill as humans(we do not count cmdr Shepard as one), krogans are way harder to kill. asari are all natural biotics and live for a thousand years, salarians are better at science generally because they think so fast. Quarians are natural techies. 

Humans are just middling everything, like in the fantasy settings humans are not exceptional at anything, well unless you count getting into trouble. 

[KaiserShep]

I really hope they tone down the "humans are special" thing in the next game. It would be nice for someone else to hold the trump card occasionally.

 

I would actually prefer that no one hold the trump card, because really, no one should be special. I don't think any species in the MEU should really have any special focus in the same vein as the genetic diversity nonsense introduced in ME2. However, as the protagonist is most likely human-only, there will probably be a bit more focus on human matters, especially if we're playing another member of the military. Of course, an exception could be made of a newcomer species, depending on the story.

 

Of course there is a way for us to have our cake and eat it too, but most people refuse to go that route. Look at how much reactivity and variance we had in DA:O/DA:A vs. DA:I, a silent protagonist opens up a lot of doors that a voiced protagonist is locked out of.

 

But the reactivity and variance in DA:O/DA:A was on the part of the NPC's, so it shouldn't make a difference if the protagonist is voiced or not. I guess it's all academic now, since the silent protagonist is dead as a doornail.

[Mcfly616]

I agree that the whole "humans are special" thing should be done away with. Thing is it's a trope as old as the genre itself. You'd be hard pressed to find a sci fi novel that doesn't prop up the human race. Or at the very least make them no less than equal to their alien counterparts sharing the fictional universe.

[Pasquale1234]

But the reactivity and variance in DA:O/DA:A was on the part of the NPC's, so it shouldn't make a difference if the protagonist is voiced or not. I guess it's all academic now, since the silent protagonist is dead as a doornail.

Writing, recording, animating various responses for a voiced PC utilizes resources that could otherwise be spent on those NPC reactions.

[Vazgen]

Humans were made special only in the last game. And what trump card? Turians have a huge empire, they are not as easy to kill as humans(we do not count cmdr Shepard as one), krogans are way harder to kill. asari are all natural biotics and live for a thousand years, salarians are better at science generally because they think so fast. Quarians are natural techies. 

Humans are just middling everything, like in the fantasy settings humans are not exceptional at anything, well unless you count getting into trouble. 

Uhm, no. Getting an embassy and a Spectre position in a record time (ME1), great test subjects because of genetic diversity *facepalm* (ME2), they're going to target Earth (ME2), a ton of humans in C-Sec (ME2)... 

[Lavros]

I'm going to have to agree with everyone pointing out the resource limitations on having multiple races as an option for the protagonist. 

 

It would eat up too much development time from actually creating a quality story from one perspective rather than having a re-skinned human running around having it pointed out to them five times throughout the game that they are not human.

 

I also think that having the vast majority of enemies and locations being of human influence a poor choice to convey a galaxy supposedly rich in different species and cultures, but this is not exclusive to the human element. Homogenized red, blue and yellow mercenary groups from ME2 as well as the Cerberus infinite army from ME3 are extremely guilty of enemies being overused throughout the story. In the case of the mercenaries they were somewhat diverse in their species make-up but still found a way to be generic and stale after encountering them so many times.

 

I think the best solution is to have a human protagonist with a diverse supporting cast that goes to alien environments and deals with alien situations with a light sprinkling of human oriented areas just as point of references to compare how different they are to the ME humans. This promotes exploration and by extension a varied enemy ensemble that won't become too overused as we progress through the story. 
 

[katamuro]

Uhm, no. Getting an embassy and a Spectre position in a record time (ME1), great test subjects because of genetic diversity *facepalm* (ME2), they're going to target Earth (ME2), a ton of humans in C-Sec (ME2)... 

 

Those were made because otherwise the plot wouldn't work. Sure the whole humans getting the council seat could have been omitted but if other colonies were getting abducted then the whole plot of ME2 unravels, Spectres would have been interested in finding out who does that and eventually would find collectors. As for hitting Earth, well its just logical, after all humanity only started colonizing some 30+ years ago so most of the population would still be on Earth. Nothing "humans are special" about that, just pure logic. And Bailey explains why there are many humans in C-sec, fits in with them gaining the Council seat and the C-sec needing more personnel. 

 

An example of "humans are special" trope would be if all of the galaxy suddenly listened to humans despite them being new or humans being the strongest military, or somehow having better soldiers/being better adapted to warfare. 

Do not mistake a human focus to "humans are special" after all in all three games Shepard is human, is Alliance(well mostly) and his main concern really is the humanity not the whole galaxy. To GET help in ME3 for humanity for Alliance, for Earth shepard goes out and does all these things. He doesn't go to "save the galaxy", Anderson clearly frames out his mission at the start "Get Help", "Do Whatever it takes". 

An example of humans are special is Star Trek. Vulcans, a much older culture get absorbed by human Federation. All the ships in the Federation are built from human template. Humans are shown most of the times as these "higher" people with better morals. 

[Faerlyte]

Skyrim did great with a butt load of character options. 

 

I would rather my main character be silent and have no back story whatsoever if it were to give me the opportunity to play as something other than human. Given the lore of the ME Universe, humanity should be like a child to many of the other races, stumbling along awkwardly through highly advanced technological world brought about by species far more advanced than them. 

 

It makes no sense whatsoever. 

 

But yeah, we're probably getting stuck with the human protagonists and the perfunctory human companions that take precedence in all of the story related cut scenes over your alien friends, who have disappeared for no apparent reason. 

[KaiserShep]

But yeah, we're probably getting stuck with the human protagonists and the perfunctory human companions that take precedence in all of the story related cut scenes over your alien friends, who have disappeared for no apparent reason. 

 

What?

 

The human protagonist I can see reason to complain about, but companions?

 

We could start off with as many as four alien companions in ME1 against the two human (which inevitably ends with just one), and with the exception of Garrus, they all had major parts in various points of the story. Heck, the whole reason Shepard is even able to become a Spectre is because of Tali, and the only reason we figure out Saren is heading for Ilos is because of Liara. Wrex is not so much a pivotal role there, but his story is for the long haul of the series, and none of the humans get one nearly as substantial.

 

In ME2, there were a lot more humans, but there were a lot more everybody, and again, the most significant stories there were the aliens yet again. Mordin was tied to the genophage arc, and Tali to the geth. Miranda was really the only one to play a big part among the humans.

 

In ME3, we're still down to 2 human companions, and again, we can dispose of one. The most popular companions, and indeed the ones that clearly got the most effort, were Garrus, Tali and Liara. Funnily enough, the only former companions that get to return to the Normandy are all alien or synthetic.

 

Mass Effect may have pushed the whole humanity thing to the forefront in the galactic community, but among the actual cast of characters our PC can take into battle, we weren't lacking for a diverse cast of alien companions. Each game only has one mission where we're required to roll an entirely human squad, and it's always strictly the prologue mission.

[katamuro]

Skyrim did great with a butt load of character options. 

 

I would rather my main character be silent and have no back story whatsoever if it were to give me the opportunity to play as something other than human. Given the lore of the ME Universe, humanity should be like a child to many of the other races, stumbling along awkwardly through highly advanced technological world brought about by species far more advanced than them. 

 

It makes no sense whatsoever. 

 

But yeah, we're probably getting stuck with the human protagonists and the perfunctory human companions that take precedence in all of the story related cut scenes over your alien friends, who have disappeared for no apparent reason. 

 

First of all skyrim has no character. It might as well be a stick figure with a camera attached because that is the only thing it does. You can only give it character by doing something and considering most people spend their days murdering through hordes of everything then....

Second there is a reason why technology kinda stalled. Because all spacefaring species discovered mass effect technology in their equivalent of our 21st-22nd century they switched gears to assimilate that technology and they are still looking for prothean technology caches to improve it. Asari have a distinct advantage in technology but they are keeping it secret so flaunting it would kinda defeat the purpose. Plus when humanity joined the galactic community a lot of technology became available to them and as is stated in the codex while the first world countries and space based ventures enjoy the technology a lot of places on Earth got stuck in the 20th century. 

And where did in mass effect someone suddenly disappear? If you had them in the squad you had them for the cutscenes. 

[KaiserShep]

Heck, I would argue that the best content for former companions were heavily in favor of the alien side. Mordin easily has the most satisfying story arc in the game to me.

[Alfonsedode]

As much as i would like to play another species, quarian is the only other race where male/female are equally represented. Krogan too, u wld say. But krogan romance/LI wld not be widely well accepted

 

I d love to have an full asari plot at a time when humans would still be stuck on earth.

[katamuro]

As much as i would like to play another species, quarian is the only other race where male/female are represented. Krogan too, u wld say. But krogan romance/LI wld not be widely well accepted

 

I d love to have an full asari plot at a time when humans would still be stuck on earth.

 

Turians and drell also have both sexes. Batarians too. Salarians too but they are very rare. 

[Alfonsedode]

Turians and drell also have both sexes. Batarians too. Salarians too but they are very rare. 

yeah, that wld be an ocassion to see them more... But i havent seen any of them in sp ... (didnt play omega DLC)

[Winterking]

yeah, that wld be an ocassion to see them more... But i havent seen any of them in sp ... (didnt play omega DLC)

There is a female Turian in  the Citadel DLC. She appears during the meeting with Garrus. 

[katamuro]

yeah, that wld be an ocassion to see them more... But i havent seen any of them in sp ... (didnt play omega DLC)

 

Just because they havent been shown doesnt mean they dont exist. I would be surprised if they havent included a greater variety of people in the next game.

[KaiserShep]

There is a female Turian in  the Citadel DLC. She appears during the meeting with Garrus. 

There should've been a female batarian cutting loose on the dance floor in the casino bar.

[Finlandiaprkl]

IMO, yes.

 

Humanity has been the centre of the franchise.

[Vazgen]

Those were made because otherwise the plot wouldn't work. Sure the whole humans getting the council seat could have been omitted but if other colonies were getting abducted then the whole plot of ME2 unravels, Spectres would have been interested in finding out who does that and eventually would find collectors. As for hitting Earth, well its just logical, after all humanity only started colonizing some 30+ years ago so most of the population would still be on Earth. Nothing "humans are special" about that, just pure logic. And Bailey explains why there are many humans in C-sec, fits in with them gaining the Council seat and the C-sec needing more personnel. 

 

An example of "humans are special" trope would be if all of the galaxy suddenly listened to humans despite them being new or humans being the strongest military, or somehow having better soldiers/being better adapted to warfare. 

Do not mistake a human focus to "humans are special" after all in all three games Shepard is human, is Alliance(well mostly) and his main concern really is the humanity not the whole galaxy. To GET help in ME3 for humanity for Alliance, for Earth shepard goes out and does all these things. He doesn't go to "save the galaxy", Anderson clearly frames out his mission at the start "Get Help", "Do Whatever it takes". 

An example of humans are special is Star Trek. Vulcans, a much older culture get absorbed by human Federation. All the ships in the Federation are built from human template. Humans are shown most of the times as these "higher" people with better morals. 

You said it yourself that humans are made special in the final part of the trilogy. And yet now you claim that it is not the case? I don't get that.

ME3 focuses on humanity less than ME2. The idea that humans are special comes from them reverse engineering Prothean technology, creating a military force using said technology, defeating turians in at least one battle - all in a year, being granted an embassy in a record time and being considered for a Spectre candidate despite other races being members of the galactic community for a longer time. Alliance also manages to beat batarians and settle their region of space. This all happens before we even get control of our character. Then in ME2, only human colonies are attacked, humans are genetically diverse according to Mordin and they are valuable test subjects, number of humans in C-Sec drastically increases. We can even have an all-human Council based on the final decision in ME1. They are explained, sure, but in the same way focus on humanity in ME3 can also be explained. Mass Effect does not go to the extremes of Star Trek but humanity is still presented as special in the trilogy. 

To have the plot work without humans presented as special a few minor changes could've been done. Have them discover and reverse engineer Prothean technology in a decade, not a year. Give another decade and activate Charon relay. In a few years - First Contact War. In that time humans develop a sizable military force and fight will ensure a lot of casualties on both sides (humanity will ultimately lose though). Humanity is offered an embassy. Basically spread the timeline over a larger period of time. In ME2 they can avoid killing Shepard, have him work for the Council to investigate missing colonies (not only human colonies). It would require rewrite of ME2 companions, yes. 

[Alfonsedode]

Just because they havent been shown doesnt mean they dont exist. I would be surprised if they havent included a greater variety of people in the next game.

(i did nt mention existence)

Now that the turian female is designed, i m pretty sure we ll see some of them a bit yeah, but not that much, cause lore. So a turian female main char is highly not probable

 

What s the codex way of explaining lack of salarian/turian/krogan female in council space ?

[Alfonsedode]

To have the plot work without humans presented as special a few minor changes could've been done. Have them discover and reverse engineer Prothean technology in a decade, not a year. Give another decade and activate Charon relay. In a few years - First Contact War. In that time humans develop a sizable military force and fight will ensure a lot of casualties on both sides (humanity will ultimately lose though). Humanity is offered an embassy. Basically spread the timeline over a larger period of time. In ME2 they can avoid killing Shepard, have him work for the Council to investigate missing colonies (not only human colonies). It would require rewrite of ME2 companions, yes. 

Seems reapers always pick a species to make minions and inspiration for a new reaper. Must have picked humans cause shepard or genetic diversity.

Or maybe they pick a few each time.

[katamuro]

You said it yourself that humans are made special in the final part of the trilogy. And yet now you claim that it is not the case? I don't get that.

ME3 focuses on humanity less than ME2. The idea that humans are special comes from them reverse engineering Prothean technology, creating a military force using said technology, defeating turians in at least one battle - all in a year, being granted an embassy in a record time and being considered for a Spectre candidate despite other races being members of the galactic community for a longer time. Alliance also manages to beat batarians and settle their region of space. This all happens before we even get control of our character. Then in ME2, only human colonies are attacked, humans are genetically diverse according to Mordin and they are valuable test subjects, number of humans in C-Sec drastically increases. We can even have an all-human Council based on the final decision in ME1. They are explained, sure, but in the same way focus on humanity in ME3 can also be explained. Mass Effect does not go to the extremes of Star Trek but humanity is still presented as special in the trilogy. 

To have the plot work without humans presented as special a few minor changes could've been done. Have them discover and reverse engineer Prothean technology in a decade, not a year. Give another decade and activate Charon relay. In a few years - First Contact War. In that time humans develop a sizable military force and fight will ensure a lot of casualties on both sides (humanity will ultimately lose though). Humanity is offered an embassy. Basically spread the timeline over a larger period of time. In ME2 they can avoid killing Shepard, have him work for the Council to investigate missing colonies (not only human colonies). It would require rewrite of ME2 companions, yes. 

 

They were made special by the Reaper attention to them, the invasion that hit them first and the relocation of citadel later. Both kinda forced to make the whole "take back earth" more central than it could have been.

As for technological advancement when they found the mars archive in 2148 the humanity was already advanced enough to consider terrforming mars and establishing permanent residence there. It was 2149 when they started exploring beyond the Charon relay so about 8 years to the First Contact war. Considering they knew that there are alien lifeforms it would make sense for them to start building a mass effect technology enabled fleet as soon as possible. 

As for council membership, the council membership is decided upon seeing if the species is able to handle it militarily. If the species is strong enough, elcor, hanar,drell and volus simply do not have the necessary military strength or numbers to make a sizable contribution. Humanity did. Batarians probably also could but were outcasts. Quarians were probably not that interested 300 years ago and also are outcasts. 

Also it makes political sense, after Shepard becomes a hero, the first human spectre that saved the citadel from geth and rogue turian spectre it makes sense to make the species one of the council. As for spectres, considering the main military might of the galaxy is turians, salarians and asari it really makes sense that only when humanity at least poses some kind of threat that they are offered a spot. 

Yes the human council does not make sense at all, one of the reasons why I never tried playing it. 

Considering prothean technology is based on the previous cycle, and so on and so forth it probably comes in a form that is quite easy to understand. Yes sure it is a bit quick but considering Reapers probably left those caches specifically so that they would be found...

As for batarians, yes it is odd, and yes they were basically the token bad guy species. But they didn't really beat them and from what you could guess is that batarian relations with other species were quite rocky before that, meaning that council probably didn't grant them as many rights as they wanted to which they often replied with aggression(the takeover of asari colony by batarians in terminus systems) so when humanity came along, strong enough to cause batarians to shift their aggression towards them of course council went out of their way to accommodate them. 

As for human colony abductions and c-sec I have already explained that.

 

Yes, humanity was made more important and more capable than it really should have been but the bias is much much smaller than in other scifi and yet people don't seem to complain about it as much.