27 réponses à ce sujet

[Jhelzei]

So far I've been disappointed with the Spirit tree. Mind Blast sounded really cool on the tin, but in reality the duration stinks. How effective are the other Spirit abilities? Which ones should I concentrate on? Any synergies with the Lightning tree? I'm playing on Normal at level 5, if that makes a difference.

[akabane_k]

just get dispel and barrier related stuff

[DomeWing333]

The Spirit Tree is just for utility and staying alive. The first 3 abilities (Barrier, Peaceful Aura, Guardian Spirit) are great for every mage, at least prior to specializations. Barrier is your quintessential damage mitigator, Peaceful Aura helps keep enemies off of you, and Guardian Spirit protects you from a death blow once every 60 seconds. Dispel is also good to have on your support mages. Everything else on the tree can be ignored.

 

And yeah, Mind Blast does suck.

[Jhelzei]

And yeah, Mind Blast does suck.

So...that begs the question, can I ditch Mind Blast, or am I stuck with it? In other words, is there any way to respec your character? I guess I could go back a level or two, but that's a few hours I'll never get back.

[DomeWing333]

At Haven, next to the armor crafting table, there's a little stand marked by a little cart-looking icon on your map. You buy "Tactician's Renewals" there. When you equip those to your character, it gets used up and resets all their skill points.

[cap and gown]

Based on DA2 I was expecting mind blast to be a lot better than it was. It was practically essential to have mind blast in that game. But in DAI I never bother with it any more. It barely even staggers the enemies.

[DomeWing333]

What it should have done was either completely reduced enemy threat or apply a 2-second stun. As it is, it just pushes enemies back a little and then have them immediately go charging back at you, madder than before.

 

And it should have 0 mana cost. There's no reason to use a 20 mana, no damage defensive spell when you can just dash away with Fade Step at no cost.

[andar91]

Barrier: very useful but it's possible to survive with only one companion casting it (i.e. I play mages and don't always take it and I'm usually fine on normal).

Peaceful Aura and Guardian Spirit: Nice for everybody

Dispel: Useful--for various fights and any fade rift (they can keep demons from spawning if used before they pop up in between waves)

Mind Blast: Looks really cool but isn't really worth it. I think they should have kept the stun effect.

Barrier Passives: They're okay...never paid much attention

Revival: You won't use it much at all, but it gives a defensive boost once upgraded to all allies, including living ones.

 

Overall, I think the Spirit Tree is not very good. They cut too much and way too much of it is about defense. Generally, i wish they'd go back to the original 4 trees for mages (Primal, Spirit, Entropy, and Creation) along with the type of spells they had (done in the new style, though).

[Bigdawg13]

I always have one mage dedicated to the spirit tree...well mostly.  I ignore mind blast and the passive on the far right.  But the extra mana regen passive is wonderful.  And I always have one mage who has revive and barrier on preferred.  Just be careful to limit that mage to a few low-cost spells otherwise they will never have the mana to use revive.  

 

For vivienne, set barrier, spirit blade, and revive to preferred.  Because spirit blade is preferred she'll stay in melee range (and thus have decent mana regen).  She almost always has mana for revive.

 

For Solas, set stonefist (or pull of the abyss) to preferred.  Make sure these abilities are upgraded to give weakness and that solas gets mana regen from weakness.  This keeps his mana regen going.  He's less sensitive to mana problems due to his specialization.

 

Dorian is the most difficult because the necromancer tree's abilities are overly expensive.  Either ignore his tree completely (you can still get the passives) or craft him some mana reduction armor and make sure he has winter's stilness for mana regen.  I like to give him a +1% heal on hit so he won't ever die.  

[cap and gown]

Do barrier regen and winter stillness stack?

[PapaCharlie9]

Yeah, Mind Blast sucks. I even tried it with the upgrade, wortheless. If it had triple the range, 0 mana cost, and 1 second cooldown, maybe it would be worth having as a combo detonator. Barely.

 

Otherwise, jack up the mana cost and cooldown a bit and have it give a status effect--from Asleep to Weakened, doesn't matter, could even be random--to all enemies in range. Several enemies have something similar, like Terror Demons, why not the good guys?

 

Lifeward ought to be higher on the tree (cheaper skill point cost). It's most useful in the early to mid game, but those early game skill points are the most valuable and everyone is going to spend them on damage dealing skills.

 

Meh, don't get me started on the Spirit tree ...

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

The spirit tree has one of the best skills in the game. Namely dispel and its upgrade transmute magic. Regardless of specialization this skill not only removes buffs and barriers from the enemy in a decently sized aoe, but also works as a continuing defensive and offensive tool as it gives you 25% increased damage for 10 seconds and 50% of your damage during that time added as barrier generation. 

Each time a mage dips into spirit tree without also grabbing dispel+transmute magic a kitten dies  

[DomeWing333]

The spirit tree has one of the best skills in the game. Namely dispel and its upgrade transmute magic. Regardless of specialization this skill not only removes buffs and barriers from the enemy in a decently sized aoe, but also works as a continuing defensive and offensive tool as it gives you 25% increased damage for 10 seconds and 50% of your damage during that time added as barrier generation. 

Each time a mage dips into spirit tree without also grabbing dispel+transmute magic a kitten dies

The thing is, enemies rarely ever buff themselves and so, usually, the only things around to dispel are the debuffs you cast on the enemy. The number of times I've had Solas immediately dispel an enemy he just froze or I just paralyzed are beyond counting. Although I did hear something about that being fixed by a patch so maybe I should let Solas start trying to cast Dispel on his own again.

[actionhero112]

The thing is, enemies rarely ever buff themselves and so, usually, the only things around to dispel are the debuffs you cast on the enemy. The number of times I've had Solas immediately dispel an enemy he just froze or I just paralyzed are beyond counting. Although I did hear something about that being fixed by a patch so maybe I should let Solas start trying to cast Dispel on his own again.

Wraiths always buff themselves and there are many variations of dispelled barriers in this game, in every faction. Abominations, Venatori Mages, Despair Demons can all be dispelled.

 

Also Solas isn't "dispelling debuffs" he's detonating combos for spirit damage. 

 

Dispel is also the largest AoE targeted detonator in the game. On an 8 second cooldown. 

[Jhelzei]

Wraiths always buff themselves and there are many variations of dispelled barriers in this game, in every faction. Abominations, Venatori Mages, Despair Demons can all be dispelled.

 

Also Solas isn't "dispelling debuffs" he's detonating combos for spirit damage. 

 

Dispel is also the largest AoE targeted detonator in the game. On an 8 second cooldown. 

Complete newb here...what do you mean by "detonator"? I've heard others mention it, but no one has provided an explanation.

 

My mage just had an interesting conversation with Solas. Unless I misunderstood, our friendly neighborhood apostate wants to tear down the Veil. Has he been snorting too much red lyrium?

[actionhero112]

Complete newb here...what do you mean by "detonator"? I've heard others mention it, but no one has provided an explanation.

 

My mage just had an interesting conversation with Solas. Unless I misunderstood, our friendly neighborhood apostate wants to tear down the Veil. Has he been snorting too much red lyrium?

 

There are 4 status in the game that can be combined with detonator abilities for extra damage. Paralyze, Frozen, Sleep and Stun.

 

In the description of an ability, there is sometimes a text describing the ability as a detonator. There are three kinds of detonators. Impact (generally speaking, these are warrior abilities) Precision (generally speaking these are rogue abilities, and Eldrich (generally speaking mage abilities).

 

Using a precision ability on a stunned target will result in rupture, on a frozen target it will result in shatter and on a paralyzed target they will be discharged. 

Using an impact ability on a sleeping target will result in rupture, on a frozen target it will result in shatter and on a paralyzed target they will be discharged. 

 

Using an eldrich detonator on a stunned target will result in weakness, and on a sleeping target it will result in nightmare. 

 

Basic combo results from using a precision ability on a sleeping target, a impact ability on a stunned target and a eldrich ability on a paralyzed or frozen target. Basic combos do the least amount of damage, but they're better than not detonating the ability. The ai will automatically try to detonate all status's with moves that are off cooldown and will try to not wake up sleeping opponents. 

 

There is a entry in your codex about statuses and detonations if you want the description the game gives you. I'm pretty sure it's under status effects. 

[capn233]

Dispel is fun for turning off all the little portals summoning demons at rifts.  The only other rift beating strat that is as amusing is bringing Druffy to the rift.

[DomeWing333]

Wraiths always buff themselves and there are many variations of dispelled barriers in this game, in every faction. Abominations, Venatori Mages, Despair Demons can all be dispelled.

 

Also Solas isn't "dispelling debuffs" he's detonating combos for spirit damage. 

 

Dispel is also the largest AoE targeted detonator in the game. On an 8 second cooldown. 

I guess it's because I usually pick the Templar path and rarely bother with optional Rifts, but most of the enemy factions I fight don't utilize any barriers at all, so Dispel just ends up being a wasted ability slot much of the time. Also, I don't recall there being any Abominations in the game.

 

Immediately going after the weakest possible combo, when I have Cassandra and Cole right there isn't exactly what I'd call "helpful." Also, maybe I told him to freeze that Behemoth for reasons other than getting a small amount of damage off on him.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying Dispel is useless. I'm saying it's not a spell you can just mindlessly give to your mages and expect great results. It takes a fair bit of micro-management to really get past its drawbacks.

[Jhelzei]

Using an eldrich detonator on a stunned target will result in weakness, and on a sleeping target it will result in nightmare. 

 

If I'm not mistaken, my version of Sera has a sleep ability. So casting dispel upon a sleeping target would result in a (hopefully) devastating combo? Does nightmare simply do damage, or does it have other effects? Off to check the codex...

[PapaCharlie9]

The spirit tree has one of the best skills in the game. Namely dispel and its upgrade transmute magic. Regardless of specialization this skill not only removes buffs and barriers from the enemy in a decently sized aoe, but also works as a continuing defensive and offensive tool as it gives you 25% increased damage for 10 seconds and 50% of your damage during that time added as barrier generation. 

Each time a mage dips into spirit tree without also grabbing dispel+transmute magic a kitten dies

But that's just the thing. Barrier and Dispel are great, which makes the rest of the tree so lame in comparison. Swap Guardian Spirit for Peaceful Aura and who would ever put any points on the right hand side of the tree?

 

Here's how I'd rearrange the tree, using the Storm tree as a template:

 

Spirit

Barrier/Elegant Defense

Peaceful Aura

(Strength of Spirits - joining Peaceful Aura and Dispel)

(Mind Blast/Fortifying Blast - joining Strength of Spirits and Rejuvenating Barrier)

Dispel/Transmute Magic

(Rejuvenating Barrier - joining Dispel and Guardian Spirit)

(Mind Blast/Fortifying Blast - joining Strength of Spirits and Rejuvenating Barrier)

Guardian Spirit

Revival/Lifeward

 

And then make Mind Blast worth having as described above.

 

This also makes Revival at least an option for early game, though you can ignore it if you want and go straight to Dispel.

[actionhero112]

I guess it's because I usually pick the Templar path and rarely bother with optional Rifts, but most of the enemy factions I fight don't utilize any barriers at all, so Dispel just ends up being a wasted ability slot much of the time. Also, I don't recall there being any Abominations in the game.

 

Immediately going after the weakest possible combo, when I have Cassandra and Cole right there isn't exactly what I'd call "helpful." Also, maybe I told him to freeze that Behemoth for reasons other than getting a small amount of damage off on him.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying Dispel is useless. I'm saying it's not a spell you can just mindlessly give to your mages and expect great results. It takes a fair bit of micro-management to really get past its drawbacks.

 

 

Red Templar Abominations? Really? You encountered none of these? 

 

This is just the barrier producing enemies, dispel has a various amount of uses in the game.

 

Dispel is easily one of the best spells available to mages, though I expect if you want to play the game mindlessly (your words), it may not be to your tastes. 

[DomeWing333]

Red Templar Abominations? Really? You encountered none of these? 

 

This is just the barrier producing enemies, dispel has a various amount of uses in the game.

 

Dispel is easily one of the best spells available to mages, though I expect if you want to play the game mindlessly (your words), it may not be to your tastes. 

I've seen the regular footsoldiers, guardsmen, archers, shadows, knights, horrors, and behemoths. Are you just misnaming one of those?

 

Like what? All I can think of aside from enemy barriers are negative effects on my own party, but then I can just instantly Stealth/Combat Roll/Fade Cloak out of those. There's also pre-emptively dispelling enemies spawning from fade rifts, but, again, that doesn't come up too often for me.

 

It's a useful spell, but one of the best? When compared to fire mine, immolate, static cage, energy barrage, ice mine, spirit blade, fade cloak, walking bomb, pull of the abyss, and stone fist? 

[Bigdawg13]

On a supportive note, dispel is the largest AoE eldritch detonator in the game.  However, immolate (now that it works) is a better eldritch detonator, bringing instant damage with a dot component.

 

The only value I have found for dispel, is to get regenerative barrier passive or to reduce the difficulty of early game rifts. The 8-ability limit makes it a poor option for post-skyhold.

[Deebo305]

Revival: You won't use it much at all, but it gives a defensive boost once upgraded to all allies, including living ones.

I use to think this BEFORE the Jaws of Hakkon DLC but now....thank the goddam maker for it

The amount of times those Hakkonites can down you is insane, they laugh at things like guard and barrier and then the Fade Rifts....4 PRIDE DEMONS lolwat O_o

Yea I recommend picking up revive if you wanna keep you melee fighters alive, particularly any 2 handers near the start of it

[Incantrix]

Does anyone here fight dragons? o_O

 

Dispel is almost mandatory for them on my NM playthroughs.