An idea I've had tossing around would have been during the Orlesian Ball, instead of Gaspard planning to take over the negotiations with Ferelden Mercenaries and some chavaliers, you discover that he has oredered his men to surround the building and kill or capture all the Orlesian Nobles who have opposed him.
After you uncover this, you can either let the attack proceed as planned or interfere with it
I liked ME2 Suicide Mission. I felt great satisfaction at the end when everyone survived because I made the right choice over who to use at each stage. It clearly isn't that straight forward because I know someone who lost their favourite character, Thane, through making a bad call. Killing people just to make people react and not giving them the opportunity to prevent it is not something I particularly enjoy. That said, I felt the choices at the end of Origins worked well. You could take the Dark Ritual if you wished but if it went against your character you could reject it. I knew in rejecting the Dark Ritual I was condemning one of us to death; I resigned myself that it would be me but then ultimately it went the other way.
I think they rather played down the effect at the ball if you elected to let Celene die. The Harlequins appeared and started to knife a few people but the blood was kept to a minimum and you left shortly after to pursue Florianne. However, I think they intended you to use your imagination; since the choices clearly flagged that confronting Florianne yourself would minimise further bloodshed.
Using your imagination could also be said about Haven. Clearly a lot of people were killed, even though many got away. May be there shouldn't have been the possibility of rescuing so many people that you knew by name, so when you got to Skyhold they would always be missing and you'd know why.
On the whole though I'd rather not have a Red Wedding moment.
An idea I've had tossing around would have been during the Orlesian Ball, instead of Gaspard planning to take over the negotiations with Ferelden Mercenaries and some chavaliers, you discover that he has oredered his men to surround the building and kill or capture all the Orlesian Nobles who have opposed him.
After you uncover this, you can either let the attack proceed as planned or interfere with it
What does this accomplish besides making the Orlesian security look utterly incompetent?
What if they pull off a red wedding moment by killing your romance character whoever he/she is. That's right, if you have a committed romance partner, they are automatically killed in a red wedding style, and the killer is (a still living) Zeveran just doing his job to fulfill his contract. And we get the option to do with him as we please. Such as in either killing him or doing something else. We will cringe, throw our controllers at the television, and then sob for hours right before coming here to the forums and either blaming or praising bioware for killing our love interest, and then they'll say "but you guys wanted a red wedding moment in dragon age".
...and this is why we can't have nice things.
What does this accomplish besides making the Orlesian security look utterly incompetent?
Interesting storytelling, and the establishment that a small amount of security guards at a formal event is no use against an entire Army holding them hostage.
DAO and DA2 have plenty red wedding moments:
Human Noble origin or City Elf.
Ostagars ending.
The Ultimate sacrifice reveal.
Anders blowing up the Chantry.
I can't think of any moment in DAI that shocked me too much.
What does this accomplish besides making the Orlesian security look utterly incompetent?
well they already are utterly incompetent if Gaspard can sneak in troops in the first place
Besides that, it provides a much clearer separation between the two, adds in some higher stakes for a mission that for all that is supposedly riding on it doesn't feel urgent or dire.
I'd go on but I know you only respond to one thing
MUH HEROISM!
I don't think the game needs a Red Wedding. I think it could use more difficult choices without easy answers.
Origins, for instance, you had the whole Orzamaar deal. Bhelen is a horrible person, is going to basically set up a dictatorship, but is going to do well for the people he supports. Harrowmont is a much better person, but is just not equipped to lead. Branka is another horrible person, but she's also brilliant and is right that the golems will help both your cause, the dwarves cause, and especially her own cause. It, however, could also mean the death of your companion (Shale, who would turn against you). That? That was well done arc, ignoring all the slogging around the deep roads.
The 'happy end' to Redcliffe, on the other hand, where you can just leave Connor alone for the week or so it's going to take to travel to the Circle to save him and he never sends more undead after the villagers, brainwashes his mother/uncle/the knights, or does anything but apparently sulk in a room waiting (in fact, you can basically go to Redcliffe early then go around and do everything else first, because hey, why not- nothing will ever happen!)... that wasn't a hard choice. Unless you sided with the Templars hard, with metaknowledge there's no real choice here unless you want your character to be evil/ruthless. Going to the circle gets you the best rewards, the happiest group, and there are no consquences.
I don't think Bioware needs to start killing off beloved characters to make you care. But if they want the game to be of the darker sort of fantasy (and do they, still?) they could put in more choices that are, in a way, lose-lose (or at least not win-win). They can put in consequences that actually mean something. For instance, if you Tranquilize someone in DAI, you'll get a ton of disapproval: but no one, even the ones that should really care (Dorian if it's Alexius, Cass due to her experiences...) says anything. Only thing that happens? A War Table mission you can actually ignore with nothing changing.
The game isn't 'not dark' because people aren't dying enough: it's 'not dark' because no matter what you do, nothing really bad happens (and if it does happen, it was inevitable and wasn't a result of your choices, IE DAII finale). There's no consequences to your actions that matter beyond minor companion disapproval and occasionally a failed wartable chain.
An idea I've had tossing around would have been during the Orlesian Ball, instead of Gaspard planning to take over the negotiations with Ferelden Mercenaries and some chavaliers, you discover that he has oredered his men to surround the building and kill or capture all the Orlesian Nobles who have opposed him.
After you uncover this, you can either let the attack proceed as planned or interfere with it
Celene would have to be blind deaf and dumb for that to happen with out knowing. Barla would have to be brain dead. The only why they would allow that to happen if they have a trap of their own each
well they already are utterly incompetent if Gaspard can sneak in troops in the first place
Besides that, it provides a much clearer separation between the two, adds in some higher stakes for a mission that for all that is supposedly riding on it doesn't feel urgent or dire.
I'd go on but I know you only respond to one thing
MUH HEROISM!
*Face palm.
You need to replay the mission. And get into Celene's room. The troop were allowed in. Celene set up a trap for Gespard. She well knew about the troops that were sneaked in.
*Face palm.
You need to replay the mission. And get into Celene's room. The troop were allowed in. Celene set up a trap for Gespard. She well knew about the troops that were sneaked in.
Ok she knew they were coming and was going to have him arrested, what on the Maker's good Thedas is stopping them from just attacking them instead of quietly going away?
Why are they being snuck in and not just assaulting it outright?
I almost agree with Steelcan, but I'd prefer to have it be Venatori infiltrators who do it. Preferably by opening a Fade rift and summoning a horde of demons to start slaughtering the nobles.
I almost agree with Steelcan, but I'd prefer to have it be Venatori infiltrators who do it. Preferably by opening a Fade rift and summoning a horde of demons to start slaughtering the nobles.
and here I thought you'd jump at the chance to kill chevaliers
and here I thought you'd jump at the chance to kill chevaliers
Oh, I would. But it's just as good to see demons killing them.
Oh, I would. But it's just as good to see demons killing them.
we already fight enough demons
and here I thought you'd jump at the chance to kill chevaliers
Indeed but in that scenario...Gaspard wins simply by doing nothing.
Not exactly the victory he'd want but well if the Tevinters are going to be that nice and kill all of his detractors...
Oh, the demons are coming for him, too. Pity that the ball's etiquette doesn't let you go armed.
Oh, the demons are coming for him, too. Pity that the ball's etiquette doesn't let you go armed.
I wish them luck.
The man soled a Behemoth with a sword.
Him beating demons to death with his bare hands would be nearly as neat to watch, also he has a dagger plainly on his person.
He's over armed
All right, then I'll put it like this: both Celene and Gaspard die and the Inquisition has to pick up the pieces. Probably with other characters introduced earlier in the plot.
Ok she knew they were coming and was going to have him arrested, what on the Maker's good Thedas is stopping them from just attacking them instead of quietly going away?
Why are they being snuck in and not just assaulting it outright?
Her guards, spys and army. Also, her army is still between Gaspard's and her. That's why he's sneaking people in.
That might be true for some players, not all. The Couslands were made out to be progresive, and kind, so that the players would like them.
It's a bit like the Starks and Freys almost.
Her guards, spys and army. Also, her army is still between Gaspard's and her. That's why he's sneaking people in.
he's already implied to have attacked Halamshiral once, and even if he does need to sneak in troops, why have them give up when outed? Why not order them to attack, slim chance is better than no chance
he's already implied to have attacked Halamshiral once, and even if he does need to sneak in troops, why have them give up when outed? Why not order them to attack, slim chance is better than no chance
he's already implied to have attacked Halamshiral once, and even if he does need to sneak in troops, why have them give up when outed? Why not order them to attack, slim chance is better than no chance
Because Celene's guards and the quis' guard are there as well as Bala's spies. It's not on even ground because he has no clue to the numbers he will be facing now. He lost the element of surprise that would of given him an advantage.
Plus to him failing even results in a better outcome, he gets to meet his end in his element, in combat.
He gets to go to the pyre atop his shield covered in blood and glory rather then facing mere execution.
He'd get to fight and die alongside his men.
So you agree that he's not winning in this plan as well.
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