65 réponses à ce sujet

[Bioware-Critic]

Given the largely neutral tone throughout DAI, I think David's comment about not being able to imagine a tone no longer applies, because it wasn't (at least for me) so much about imaging a tone as it was about imagining an intent, which is something I'm convinced all players do (even the ones who think they're actually discerning an intended tone - I think they're imagining it).

And with the neutral tone dialogue in DAI, I find that imagining the intent works really well. Because the lines are delivered flat, almost any intent I imagine still works.

So then all I'm missing is the full text.

Also, with the full text, I could just mute the voices and then all would be well.

 

The industry shouldn't underestimate it's customers so blatantly! It's insulting and disgraceful ... 

We are all capable of imagination. It is a basic human trait. 

[Dubya75]

I know that often the dialogue wheel surprises me with the character saying something that in my head wasn't at all expected. I would like it if you mouse over what you will pick, it will show, as a tooltip what they will say, the first sentense is enough. Just so I know if my character will be rude, or just dismissive, or whatever. I never know what the character will say, not really.

 

Well, in DA2 we had tone icons (kind, sarcastic, aggressive etc) which IMO worked pretty well. But for some unknown reason it was not included in DAI with the same effectiveness.

[Kantr]

Writing from tablet ... 

 

Playtesters are playtesters ... why should I care about a handful of people no one knows the first thing about. I cannot possibly comment on the composition of the group of playtesters!  And if no one knows how they judge the game ... How can I form a opinion about their input for myself? No. I must leave them out of the equation ...

And besides -  aren't WE ALL playtesterd, here,  Kantr ?!? I know I am ... 

 

I am just a fan.  But I will give my feedback here as I think is right / adequate.

The session being private? What does that have to do with anything? Please elaborate ...  

 

As of now - I would prefer BioWare will keep working on it and ... in the future ... find a good solution.  

I would love that!

no. you aren't a playtester. You are a consumer of a final product.

 

Play testers shape the games. For example The puzzles in portal were influenced by playtesters they were changed when players skipped easily or didnt look the right way. In portal 2 they had to put a sign telling people to look at an explosion.

[Bioware-Critic]

no. you aren't a playtester. You are a consumer of a final product.

 

Play testers shape the games. For example The puzzles in portal were influenced by playtesters they were changed when players skipped easily or didnt look the right way. In portal 2 they had to put a sign telling people to look at an explosion.

 

No kidding - huh?

 

Well what do you think I ment when I wrote that?

That we are consumers who get the finished product after release is kind of obvious - I would argue.

 

Since nitpicking my words or how I phrase something isn't really the same as responding ...

... do you have some input about the rest of my posting or something else to say to me

[Sylvius the Mad]

The industry shouldn't underestimate it's customers so blatantly! It's insulting and disgraceful ...
We are all capable of imagination. It is a basic human trade.

Trait. The word you wanted was trait.

And while it is insulting, it might be good business.

[Bioware-Critic]

Trait. The word you wanted was trait.

And while it is insulting, it might be good business.

Thanx

...

 

Well not everybody treats his or her customers like that! And I am "pro respect" - PERIOD!

The Globalization made everything worse! Since the corporations get bigger every year ... their greed developes just equally.

 

And to make it clear: "Treating customers as if they have no imagination is dehumanizing!"

 

Though not every business or company has to follow the worst trends! And I seriously doubt they should ...

I for one will always prefer to buy from companies that show some sense of decency. And I will vote with my wallet on that, too

[Sylvius the Mad]

The Globalization made everything worse! Since the corporations get bigger every year ... their greed developes just equally.

You know all those stores on the Internet that sell funny t shirts? They custom-print shirts for about $20 each.

The cotton in those shirts was almost certainly grown in America, shipped to somewhere like Vietnam to be made into cloth, which is then shipped to somewhere like China where is it made into a shirt, and then shipped to either America or Europe where it is warehoused for those online vendors.

But after all that, the blank shirts sell for about $3 each, which is why those vendors can afford to custom print shirts.

That's what globalization does. Globalization is awesome.

[Bioware-Critic]

You know all those stores on the Internet that sell funny t shirts? They custom-print shirts for about $20 each.

The cotton in those shirts was almost certainly grown in America, shipped to somewhere like Vietnam to be made into cloth, which is then shipped to somewhere like China where is it made into a shirt, and then shipped to either America or Europe where it is warehoused for those online vendors.

But after all that, the blank shirts sell for about $3 each, which is why those vendors can afford to custom print shirts.

That's what globalization does. Globalization is awesome.

 

Spoiler

You know what I ment and you know very well that the world is so immensly complex that we could talk about the implications of Globalization for 10 years without sleeping and still would not have covered everything! The world can be a nice place and it can be a cruel place. It all depends on where you look ...

Within the line of production and distribution you described are at least 20 different business involved, all of them are connected to other networks, and all of them are comfortably outside our "field of view" ... The Globalization is a force greater than anything in the history of mankind because of the huge sums of money involved and the things people do for money! Under every stone you look under you WILL find crime and inquallity if you look close enough. There are a lot of stones to look under - Take your pick! Everyone of us needs to be mindful of that because we all have a responsibility for the people around the world who cannot fight back against this "big money" ...

[BansheeOwnage]

no. you aren't a playtester. You are a consumer of a final product.

We're playtesters in the sense that we play a game, provide feedback, some of which shapes the next game. Furthermore, it shapes patches and DLC, so I would argue that we are not only playtesters of a final product, but of an unfinished one as well.

[Bioware-Critic]

We're playtesters in the sense that we play a game, provide feedback, some of which shapes the next game. Furthermore, it shapes patches and DLC, so I would argue that we are not only playtesters of a final product, but of an unfinished one as well.

 

Matches exactly my sentiment   

[BansheeOwnage]

Matches exactly my sentiment  

Yay!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Spoiler

You know what I ment and you know very well that the world is so immensly complex that we could talk about the implications of Globalization for 10 years without sleeping and still would not have covered everything! The world can be a nice place and it can be a cruel place. It all depends on where you look ...

Within the line of production and distribution you described are at least 20 different business involved, all of them are connected to other networks, and all of them are comfortably outside our "field of view" ... The Globalization is a force greater than anything in the history of mankind because of the huge sums of money involved and the things people do for money! Under every stone you look under you WILL find crime and inquallity if you look close enough. There are a lot of stones to look under - Take your pick! Everyone of us needs to be mindful of that because we all have a responsibility for the people around the world who cannot fight back against this "big money" ...

Spoiler

The world is neither nice nor cruel; it merely is.

 

Yes, if you look for it you'll find inequality everywhere.  Is inequality necessarily bad?  Is the optimal level of crime zero?

 

The world is immensely complex.  I suggest you look at it complexly.

[In Exile]

Given the largely neutral tone throughout DAI, I think David's comment about not being able to imagine a tone no longer applies, because it wasn't (at least for me) so much about imaging a tone as it was about imagining an intent, which is something I'm convinced all players do (even the ones who think they're actually discerning an intended tone - I think they're imagining it).

And with the neutral tone dialogue in DAI, I find that imagining the intent works really well. Because the lines are delivered flat, almost any intent I imagine still works.

So then all I'm missing is the full text.

Also, with the full text, I could just mute the voices and then all would be well.

It depends on what you mean by intent. You're always imaging intent (as in the purpose behind saying it). That's true even in games with preset protagonists.

Though for some people it is about time (the same line that could be said as either aggressive or not). POE is a full text example of a system designed not to allow for this with each line assigned a preset tone (which you can turn off if you head canon but which the game is not responsive to as a matter of its own metaphysics).

[In Exile]

We're playtesters in the sense that we play a game, provide feedback, some of which shapes the next game. Furthermore, it shapes patches and DLC, so I would argue that we are not only playtesters of a final product, but of an unfinished one as well.

That's really misusing the word though since play testing involves an element of prototyping. What play testers see (and the type of feedback they're meant to give) is very different from that which we give on a polished final product. They deal with potential nascent ideas and kill them dead or not, sometimes asking whether they can work. We look at final and polishes ideas and ask whether they worked.

[BansheeOwnage]

That's really misusing the word though since play testing involves an element of prototyping. What play testers see (and the type of feedback they're meant to give) is very different from that which we give on a polished final product. They deal with potential nascent ideas and kill them dead or not, sometimes asking whether they can work. We look at final and polishes ideas and ask whether they worked.

I'm not saying it's exactly the same. But "playtester" is a good description of what everyone does, even if it's not specifically what the people who are already called "playtesters" do.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It depends on what you mean by intent. You're always imaging intent (as in the purpose behind saying it). That's true even in games with preset protagonists.

Though for some people it is about time (the same line that could be said as either aggressive or not). POE is a full text example of a system designed not to allow for this with each line assigned a preset tone (which you can turn off if you head canon but which the game is not responsive to as a matter of its own metaphysics).

I was worried Obsidian would do this with PoE. They have long had a tendency to restrict roleplaying for the sake of the story they want to tell. I think they have a much longer history of this than BioWare.