46 réponses à ce sujet

[Valmar]

Except when you read the comics to learn how TIM received aforementioned eyes.  Also, the more Paragon you are the less Terminator your eyes become.  

 

I'm well aware of both points. It doesn't change anything. Shepard's eyes are STILL cybernetic no matter how paragon you go. You only hide the scars with happy thoughts, you don't magically become fully organic. Even if paragon Shep looks perfectly "normal" and "natural" beneath it all he has the same cybernetic eyes and cybernetic skinweaves he has as a renegade.

 

It's still hypocritical to judge someone based solely off of them having cybernetic implants when you have the same type of implants. How or where he received those implants changes nothing. That's just using meta-game knowledge that only the player has access to as a justification for hypocritical and biased judgement of the character for superficial reasons.

 

There are a lot of valid reasons not to trust The Illusive Man. Saying you shouldn't on the principle that "he has glowing eyes" is unfair and hypocritical. Shepard has the same eyes with a different hue. Shepard's eyes may magically appear normal but they'll always be cybernetic, just like TIM's. If you're not willing to trust TIM based only off of the fact that he has cybernetic eyes then you shouldn't trust Shepard past the first game.

[NM_Che56]

I'm well aware of both points. It doesn't change anything. Shepard's eyes are STILL cybernetic no matter how paragon you go. You only hide the scars with happy thoughts, you don't magically become fully organic. Even if paragon Shep looks perfectly "normal" and "natural" beneath it all he has the same cybernetic eyes and cybernetic skinweaves he has as a renegade.

 

It's still hypocritical to judge someone based solely off of them having cybernetic implants when you have the same type of implants. How or where he received those implants changes nothing. That's just using meta-game knowledge that only the player has access to as a justification for hypocritical and biased judgement of the character for superficial reasons.

 

There are a lot of valid reasons not to trust The Illusive Man. Saying you shouldn't on the principle that "he has glowing eyes" is unfair and hypocritical. Shepard has the same eyes with a different hue. Shepard's eyes may magically appear normal but they'll always be cybernetic, just like TIM's. If you're not willing to trust TIM based only off of the fact that he has cybernetic eyes then you shouldn't trust Shepard past the first game.

It's not hypocritical because I, personally, don't have cybernetic eyes. And I didn't fully trust that Shepard wasn't going to be manipulated by virtue of his implants either.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well, the Reaper IFF is obviously software. TIM had his hands on it well before Shepard retrieved the original. Because no one can go through the Omega 4 relay without the Reaper IFF because the relay recognizes a special IFF protocol to minimize drift after relay transit. Otherwise you'd end up in the black hole.

 

So TIM getting his mitts on the IFF was an ass pull, unless it was simply a software program and his idea was for Shepard to go in with his/her team clear the station and get killed in the process. If it was software, why did they need to get the thing from the derelict reaper? Why didn't TIM just give Shepard the software?

 

How did TIM get through the Omega 4 relay in one piece? This is yet another plot hole.

[Daemul]

OP, serious question, at any time, did you actually ever pay attention to what was going on in the story? Because all your questions have answers in the games. 

[Vazgen]

Well, the Reaper IFF is obviously software. TIM had his hands on it well before Shepard retrieved the original. Because no one can go through the Omega 4 relay without the Reaper IFF because the relay recognizes a special IFF protocol to minimize drift after relay transit. Otherwise you'd end up in the black hole.

 

So TIM getting his mitts on the IFF was an ass pull, unless it was simply a software program and his idea was for Shepard to go in with his/her team clear the station and get killed in the process. If it was software, why did they need to get the thing from the derelict reaper? Why didn't TIM just give Shepard the software?

 

How did TIM get through the Omega 4 relay in one piece? This is yet another plot hole.

Maybe he got one from Sovereign? They did have Sovereign hardware that was integrated into EDI and Reaper IFF was not installed.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Still it's a plot hole.

[JasonShepard]

Well, the Reaper IFF is obviously software. TIM had his hands on it well before Shepard retrieved the original. Because no one can go through the Omega 4 relay without the Reaper IFF because the relay recognizes a special IFF protocol to minimize drift after relay transit. Otherwise you'd end up in the black hole.

 

So TIM getting his mitts on the IFF was an ass pull, unless it was simply a software program and his idea was for Shepard to go in with his/her team clear the station and get killed in the process. If it was software, why did they need to get the thing from the derelict reaper? Why didn't TIM just give Shepard the software?

 

How did TIM get through the Omega 4 relay in one piece? This is yet another plot hole.

 

Uh... When did TIM go through the O4 relay before the Normandy? I've seen no indication of that in the games.

[Valmar]

It's not hypocritical because I, personally, don't have cybernetic eyes. And I didn't fully trust that Shepard wasn't going to be manipulated by virtue of his implants either.

 

Seriously? Of course you don't. Shepard does. Which is the character you play as in the game. I suspect you know what I meant, though. You just want to sound more justified in your superficial judgement. You didn't make this distinction before. You're the one who said "the more Paragon you are the less Terminator your eyes become."

 

Only now do you shield yourself with semantic technicalities like "well, my IRL eyes are organic so it isn't hypocritical".

 

When you referred to the terminator eyes as your eyes you didn't mean literally in the physical world the player has cybernetic eyes. You meant the character we play as, Shepard, that serves as our vessel exploring the fictional universe of Mass Effect. When I said it'd be hypocritical I didn't mean because you, yourself, personally, have cybernetic eyes. I mean it because the character you play as in the game has them. The player is Shepard. Why you now decide that there should be a distinction between the two is beyond me.

[GalacticWolf5]

Still it's a plot hole.

The words 'plot hole' are used way too freely on these forums.

[NM_Che56]

Seriously? Of course you don't. Shepard does. Which is the character you play as in the game. I suspect you know what I meant, though. You just want to sound more justified in your superficial judgement. You didn't make this distinction before. You're the one who said "the more Paragon you are the less Terminator your eyes become."

 

Only now do you shield yourself with semantic technicalities like "well, my IRL eyes are organic so it isn't hypocritical".

 

When you referred to the terminator eyes as your eyes you didn't mean literally in the physical world the player has cybernetic eyes. You meant the character we play as, Shepard, that serves as our vessel exploring the fictional universe of Mass Effect. When I said it'd be hypocritical I didn't mean because you, yourself, personally, have cybernetic eyes. I mean it because the character you play as in the game has them. The player is Shepard. Why you now decide that there should be a distinction between the two is beyond me.

 

Seriously.

[NM_Che56]

The words 'plot hole' are used way too freely on these forums.

And seldom used correctly.  

[ArabianIGoggles]

Uh... When did TIM go through the O4 relay before the Normandy? I've seen no indication of that in the games.

I'd like to know this as well.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Uh... When did TIM go through the O4 relay before the Normandy? I've seen no indication of that in the games.

 

I didn't say that.

 

He went through without the "reaper IFF" hardware after the suicide mission even if you destroyed the base and left Cerberus.

[JasonShepard]

I didn't say that.

 

He went through without the "reaper IFF" hardware after the suicide mission even if you destroyed the base and left Cerberus.

 

Ah, right. I misinterpreted what you were saying. That just suggests that the Reaper IFF can be copied - and that a member of Cerberus on a Cerberus created ship sent a copy to Cerberus' head-of-command without notifying Shepard. I mean, is it really a shock that Cerberus might have planted a spy onboard during ME2? (I personally suspect Miranda...)

[SilJeff]

Would it really be that big of a stretch for Miranda to send a copy of the IFF to TIM before they quit Cerberus? I mean, she was put on that ship to report to TIM the going ons in the ship

[Valmar]

Does it have to be Miranda? Didn't TIM specifically single out EDI as being the one sending him information? She's likely been sending him detailed logs about the IFF from the moment it was connected to the system. Beyond that though what is to say he didn't already have this information? Remember we didn't just stumble across the IFF. Cerberus scientists had been studying it already. Yes, those scientists were loss to indoctrination but theres a clear indication that they were there performing research for a fair time. Is it so unreasonable to think that they sent reports back to their boss about their findings? Again, they were studying the thing.

 

I believe Cerberus already had the blueprint for the device, they had the schematics. Also consider that the Normandy was able to connect this alien tech at all. What, there just happened to be a compatible USB-10 port on the wall that happened to be the same fitting as the reaper IFF? Or is it that Cerberus already knew how it connects and had that planned out?

 

As for why not just rebuild it, well, there's a many number of reasons why you'd want the original instead of a "I think its the same" copy you smacked together from rough drafts sent from indoctrinated workers. I have little doubt that they could have made a functioning IFF eventually but time was of the essence and they didn't want to take risks with the Normandy. Personally I never had a problem with Cerberus having the IFF in ME3 - I expected it. I was more surprised that Shepard didn't give copies over to the Alliance or Council, though.

 

Cerberus was able to build one of the most advanced ships in the galaxy in secret. Plus, EDI. If they can handle that I think they can manage to copy a reaper IFF their forces have already been working on. Though that's just me.

[Vazgen]

Or they could've got one from Sovereign. They used its hardware to build EDI and Reaper IFF was not used since we had to get it from elsewhere

[New Kid]

The Rachni situation being 95% same regardless of your decision on Noveria was extremely contrived and poorly concieved but not truly a retcon.

 

One thing that I would qualify as a retcon is the fact that Cerberus gets their hands on the Human Reaper and the Remains of the Collectors base regardless of the player's decision at the end of ME2

How is  it 95% the same? Whether it is the true Rachni Queen or not 100% effects the decision you make regarding its fate.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'll go for Miranda. After all she did know about the clone. "What clone?"

[78stonewobble]

How is  it 95% the same? Whether it is the true Rachni Queen or not 100% effects the decision you make regarding its fate.

 

Kinda like the 2nd twin isn't really a human at all... I'm telling you ... this is how we make slavery real again... We go after the cheap copies, that don't count. 

 

Don't tell me you wouldn't want someone waving cool air on you with a leaf on a hot summersday... now we don't even have to pay em. 

[fhs33721]

Everything will be retconned in ME4. Turns out it was all a dream in Conrad Verner's head, after playing too much "Galaxy of Fantasy". Or maybe it was those asari-hanar porn games from Shin Akiba...

So....

Conrad Verner and an Hanar as companions and LIs for ME4 confirmed?