22 réponses à ce sujet

[BlauPauh]

I am wondering if there are Mages that choose to fight with a greatswort. I've never seen one, or rather heard from any character that is a warrior ,but coud use magic. Fenris has some powers, but they are from his marks.

[Kantr]

Arcane Warriors

[themageguy]

Read the novel last flight

[BlauPauh]

Read the novel last flight

Cool thanks, I'll check it out.

[MisterJB]

It's worth noting that DAI specifically mentions how Morrigan's dress was specially tailored so she could still have enough mobility to cast spells.

Something like plate armour would likely make it nearly impossible.

[Laughing_Man]

In short, given enough freedom (outside of a circle) there would be no lore reasons to prevent such a Warrior-Mage from existing.

 

It's worth noting that DAI specifically mentions how Morrigan's dress was specially tailored so she could still have enough mobility to cast spells.

Something like plate armour would likely make it nearly impossible.

 

Morrigan was taught by Flemeth in a certain way for unknown reasons. Other mages seemed to manage with a relatively tight robe.

 

Of course actual mage armors - of Tevinter mages most notably - but also other armors from DA:I, are designed more like actual armor,

and seem to refute your claim.

 

DA is quite different from DnD, thankfully.

[MisterJB]

The armour of Tevinter mages are noticeably lighter than what Fereldans or Orlesian or Grey Warden warriors wear.

 

 

 

Notice how most of it is actually chain mall beneath cloth. Erimond's is heavier but even he is wearing normal pants and a coat.

 

 

 

Meanwhile.

Free Marches armor

 

 

Orlais.

 

 

Ferelden

 

 

Warden

 

 

So, yes, mages can wear armour. But it's evident that very heavy plate will restrict their movements and make spell casting considerably more difficult hence, why even mages trained in martial arts will wear only light armour.

 

Also, spell casting takes time. 

Notice how the Architect, one of the most powerful magical beings of all time, takes 12 seconds to cast one spell powerful enough to collapse the cavern.

 

And how Hawke takes advantage of this to strike Corypheus, another of the most powerful mages of all time, before he can cast anything.

 

Hence also why it's a good idea for mages to not engage in close combat where their enemy can just interrupt them.

[Obadiah]

I think non-mage Wardens in Awakenings were making deals with spirits to gain powers and spell-like abilities in the extra specializations there. Does that qualify as casting spells in armor?

[BlauPauh]

Oh wow, I didn't even see that I was given so much information here, thanks, but that's not actually what I meant. I know battlemages exist and arcane warriors and that they can wear armor, what I mean is "mages", people who could use magic, but actually use none at all. Just because they don't want to or whatnot. People who are without magical talent have no choice but to choose a skill set without magic (though the post above me is interesting, I didn't know that). But "mages" can.

[BlackSheepMafia]

It would kinda defeat the purpose of being a mage though if they chose to fight with greatswords, though that would remove any suspicion from templars. It never made any sense to me how mages could walk around Thedas in robes and with a huge staff and the templars were none the wiser about it lol. Bioware could easily make a very interesting mage companion or npc in the dragon age universe by giving him a weapon and heavy armour, his story could basically be him hiding from the templars from a young age so his father taught him sword play.

[BlauPauh]

It would kinda defeat the purpose of being a mage though if they chose to fight with greatswords, though that would remove any suspicion from templars. It never made any sense to me how mages could walk around Thedas in robes and with a huge staff and the templars were none the wiser about it lol. Bioware could easily make a very interesting mage companion or npc in the dragon age universe by giving him a weapon and heavy armour, his story could basically be him hiding from the templars from a young age so his father taught him sword play.

Yeah, something like this is what I thought, or that some people just choose sword over spells because they enjoy fighting like that. I guess I don't mean a full fleged mage, rather than a person who just never trained their powers. Every guy with magic powers I meet is automatically a mage. I know it's most convenient, but I was just wondering about that.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

The Templars in general are a pretty good example of this. They boast magical affinities and can cast magic powers but rely almost entirely on martial prowess in order to fight.

[andy6915]

Malcolm Hawke was one, apparently. He was so skilled at martial combat that he spent years acting as a mercenary, and even his fellows mercs didn't know he was a mage because all of his fighting was done without magic. He only got ousted when another merc was about to get killed and he had to use magic to save him. 

[Mike3207]

Fatigue reducing armor runes makes it more viable for mages to wear armor in Awakening, maybe even the equivalent of plate armor and get into the equivalent of wearing robes. The main disadvantage you run into there is not being to able to add magic onto armor, the way you can with robes.

 

Great weapons would be used by a mage shapeshifter, as it's the weapon class most efficient at conversion from mage weapon damage to shapeshifter damage. The main problem there is you don't get the crit chance/damage as much with that class of weapons as you do with one handed weapons. The problem I run into there is if i switch to another companion, I'll often just get my mage hacking away when foes get close like he thinks he's Conan.

[The Baconer]

Amund the Skywatcher is a mage, and he certainly goes hard with big-ass weapons.

[Primorus]

This is a pet peeve of mine, so I hope you will all forgive me if I get up on my soap box for a few minutes about this. 

 

The idea that mages don't wear armour goes back to the earlier editions of Dungeons & Dragons, which turned the "robed mage" trope into a hard and fast rule. Where the wizards and sorcerers in popular fiction in the 70s and 80s were usually robed for various reasons -- ex. they didn't feel their enemies would ever make it to melee range, so why bother wearing armour; or they were centuries old and too frail and weak to wear 30-40 lbs of chain plus another 20-30 lbs of steel plate; or there just weren't heavily armoured people in the settings where they were present, such as in the Conan universe (or, even more contingently, with Gandalf in LOTR because the Fellowship were travelling light, and nobody except Gimli wore armour) -- D&D decided that heavy armour would impair the somatic components of spellcasting.

 

To a certain extent, this made some sense. In D&D, wizards have to perform intricate gestures with their fingers to complete a spell. It's dumb, but that's the way it is. Only, the rules make it so that even if the wizard takes off their gauntlets, they're still counted as having a spell failure chance (which is really stupid and is something I change in all my campaigns). Because D&D was really the seminal work in fantasy roleplaying, the idea that mages can't wear armour and use their spells has become an enduring fallacy in all subsequent fantasy RPGs. 

 

Dragon Age has slowly (VERY SLOWLY) been moving away from this. In Origins you could become an arcane warrior, gaining increased protection in exchange for increased fatigue. In DA2, the first armour you get is combat worthy, as are a couple others throughout the game, but largely you are still relegated to wearing foppish robes that offer absolutely no protection. In Inquisition you FINALLY get armour that LOOKS LIKE ARMOUR. One of the primary reasons that I fell out of love, and then back in love with the games, as minor a point as it is, is that after the disappointment of running around looking like someone's curtains in DA2 I was able to look like I belonged in a fight again in Inquisition. 

 

Now, in defence of robes, they are a perfect uniform in a Circle. They're modest, easy to make, and have ample room for pockets to keep sundries involved in learning, practising, and even casting magic. More over, they eschew protection that is superfluous in a fortress where you aren't likely to be stabbed -- an argument the Templars would heartily advance as an excuse to keep their charges vulnerable in the event that they turned to blood magic. Outside a Circle, however? In Dragon Age: The Calling, Fiona wears a mail hauberk because she's about to go into the Deep Roads to fight Darkspawn. There is never any mention that she suffers complications to her spellcasting because of this, and this only further demonstrates to me that mages are more than capable of wearing armour -- as they should be. That she isn't wearing armour in Inquisition tells me that she's just getting too old. Armour is heavy -- not too heavy for a fit, young combatant, but it would definitely wear down someone in their 50s, so unless they were actively going into a fight they would probably stick with robes. 

 

I'm a writer, myself, and the tyranny of the "robed mage" trope is one I have worked hard to defy in all my works involving magic. It went from being a statement to a hard and fast rule that everyone seems to consider inviolate. So my contribution to this thread is a resounding: "**** HAVING TO WEAR A DRESS! MAGES CAN WADE INTO BATTLE WITH A SWORD AND ARMOUR, TOO! They just might not be as skilled with these tools as someone who has spent time training as a squire, soldier, knight, etc." 

 

 

It's worth noting that DAI specifically mentions how Morrigan's dress was specially tailored so she could still have enough mobility to cast spells.

Something like plate armour would likely make it nearly impossible.

Morrigan is a shapeshifter. In the Sacred Ashes trailer it shows her doing some acrobatic feats whilst changing forms. She is hardly a good example to hold up for a typical mage. 

 

So, yes, mages can wear armour. But it's evident that very heavy plate will restrict their movements and make spell casting considerably more difficult hence, why even mages trained in martial arts will wear only light armour.

 

Also, spell casting takes time. [...] Hence also why it's a good idea for mages to not engage in close combat where their enemy can just interrupt them.

 

I defy you to give me some canon examples of where spellcasting required grand gesticulation that armour would have made impossible. 

 

I further defy you to explain to me why it is NOT a good idea to wear protection against close combat attacks when you may not be able to keep everyone from making it to that distance. That seems to me to be a fundamental flaw in combat strategy. If I'm likely to get hit by a weapon in a fight because my ranged attacks take a long time to cast, and I haven't trained my swordfighting abilities to be on par with someone else, I would don the biggest, heaviest armour I could to make sure that I live long enough to incinerate my enemies. 

[Treacherous J Slither]

A mage can simply cast a bunch of sustained spells like Haste and Miasma before battle and then run into the fray wearing whatever and wielding whatever.

Malcolm Hawke is a very good example of what the lore states a mage is capable of. Swordwork and spellwork in equal measure.

[MKDAWUSS]

It's worth noting that DAI specifically mentions how Morrigan's dress was specially tailored so she could still have enough mobility to cast spells.

Something like plate armour would likely make it nearly impossible.

Have you seen Morrigan in Wade's Dragonbone Plate Armor?

[Ashagar]

It's worth noting that DAI specifically mentions how Morrigan's dress was specially tailored so she could still have enough mobility to cast spells.

Something like plate armour would likely make it nearly impossible.

 

proper plate armor is amongst the least restrictive armor one could wear in regards to allowing the most movement with the greatest amount of protection in real life  when it comes to heavy armor, Generally speaking steel plate armor generally weighted 40 to 55 pounds spread across the entire body and allowing for enough movement to do cartwheels, back flips and other movements. Other heavy armor such as good chain-mail could weight as much just as much or even more but with with all the weight resting on the shoulders instead of spread over the body.

 

A real issue for a mage with any armor likely be the gauntlets and heavy gloves which are restrictive on hand and finger movement and feeling which would likely interfere with a mages spell casting.

[Gervaise]

We had the ability to use armour and swords in DAO as part of the Arcane Warrior specialisation and I liked that possibility.  You would never be as proficient in sword use as a warrior or rogue (who could also use swords then) because your training was focussed elsewhere but you could still use one.   In those days it was noticeable that they required you to drop/sheathe your sword in order to cast spells, which was fair enough.   This would suggest it would be of greater disadvantage to try and use a great sword because it would take longer to sheathe and unsheathe during battle.  Still at least a mage was allowed to use a knife in their second weapon slot even if they hadn't been trained as an arcane warrior.   It made sense that anyone should be able to use a knife, even if not particularly proficient at it.    One of the things I loved about DAO was the flexibility with regard to all classes.  The warrior could be a dual wielder, the rogue could use a sword and dagger or two swords, the mage could use armour and swords with the right training.  Warriors and rogues could use ranged weapons and then switch to close combat weapons as enemies closed in.

 

DA2 was a retrograde step with regard to that because you were both limited as to the armour the class could wear and the weapons they could use.  With the introduction of PC only armour (since companions all had their own specific build) this made it really frustrating the number of times you would pick up a piece of armour only for it to be the wrong class.  Only a rogue could now use a bow but at least they could switch from their bow to close ranged weapons mid combat, even if you had to go to the inventory screen to achieve it.

 

DAI at least reversed the armour restriction so that companions could wear armours of the same class but we still had the inability of other classes to use anything but their own. Still we did have some interesting armours for mages and some that were cross class at least when it came to the schematic, so I crafted some decent looking and effective armour for my mages.  Then the weapon restrictions became even worse because the rogue could no longer switch between ranged and non-ranged once the battle had started.   I would really like the weapon choice to return to the one we had in DAO so everyone could potentially have basic knowledge of how to use them but only the specific classes could improve upon that.

 

I'd also point out that whilst a mage can buff themselves up once they know they are in a battle, my favourite battle tactic was for my rogue PC to sneak forward under cover and then one shot the mage in the group before they even knew he was there, which was easy when they were wearing nothing but a few flimsy robes.   Hence the need for a mage to have proper armour to give them some sort of protection against surprise attack.

[Asdrubael Vect]

I am wondering if there are Mages that choose to fight with a greatswort. I've never seen one, or rather heard from any character that is a warrior ,but coud use magic. Fenris has some powers, but they are from his marks.

You see and can read about them in the lore

 

Elves and Tevinters, ancient ones and modern always was use them...we see much statues of them and Arhont Hessarian swords and Juggernaut armor in origins and other weapons and armors what was from first games

 

South Chantry and Templars was by the lore fear and never allow mages to even try study with swords and wear armor what makes Templars not a 90% but 100% useless against them even if they are weak ones aprentices and not know much magic

[Illegitimus]

 

 

Dragon Age has slowly (VERY SLOWLY) been moving away from this. In Origins you could become an arcane warrior, gaining increased protection in exchange for increased fatigue. In DA2, the first armour you get is combat worthy, as are a couple others throughout the game, but largely you are still relegated to wearing foppish robes that offer absolutely no protection. 

 

Hawke:  I am?  (Looks at his Blood Dragon armor)

 

As far as "lore" there's no inherent reason why a sufficiently buff mage couldn't use a greatsword just because they aren't in the computer games.  Suitable greatswords would be rare though, since they'd have to be enchanted like a staff to let you both use it as a sword and cast spells through it and there just aren't that many buff mages.  But outside of the computer games (in table top roleplaying or books for example) there's no reason why such rare birds couldn't exist.   Inside the computer games, well there's a limit to the number of attack types they want to animate.  Heck, Inquisition won't even let you attack with your hands.  

[The Baconer]

The most accomplished warriors in Thedas' history were most likely mages. 

 

The pages of this book—memory?—show an narrow plateau on top of a mountain, Two armored figures—one in gold, one in black—are fighting in the snow. Steel flickers so fast the air hums. Blood dots the ground. They do not stop for breath. The one in black makes no sound as a blade parts his throat.