59 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

There seem to be very mixed messages from ancient elves over this.   

 

Abelas says categorically that my Lavellan is not one of his People. Doesn't seem to recognise any form of kinship.  He does, however, recognise Solas as such.

 

Solas says the People need him but I'm not sure whether he is referring to modern day elves or people like Abelas.   Whenever I spoke to him about the modern day elves he didn't seem to overly identify with them.   Said to Abelas that there is a place for him and the other sentinals; presumably where Solas has been hanging out all this time - are there other ancient elves there?

 

Flemeth/Mythal said that I did the People proud.   Back in DA2 she said to Merrill that the People these days are too quick to bow the knee.   Whilst she doesn't seem to have been moved to help the modern day elves in particular, nevertheless she does seem to acknowledge us as of the People.    Would suggest that the opinion of an elven deity outranks that of anyone else, particularly her servants.   Perhaps she ought to have filled Abelas in on that fact.    Come to think of it, why didn't she let them know she was still alive?   Did she suspect that they wouldn't believe her or would expire on the spot seeing Mythal in the body of an old human woman?

 

Sera seems to deny the evidence of her own eyes in the Temple of Mythal.   Clearly there were old elven gods.   They may well have been demons masquerading as gods but they did exist.    She seemed to be in complete denial because for some reason she thinks that elven gods being real can't coexist with belief in the Maker.    According to her diary she's been trying to study the Chant but found it boring.   Pity, really, since she would have seen that the whole point is that the creations of the Maker turned away from his worship to other "gods".    To my mind, if anything the proof that the elven gods did exist but were not the benign entities they are made out to be by the Dalish, endorses rather than contradicts the Chant.

 

Kieran and the ancient Magisters, including Corypheus, seem to recognise something magical in the blood of elves that is not found in any other race.   This would also seem to suggest that even if Abelas and Solas do not wish to acknowledge us as such, we are linked to them by blood.

 

Have I missed anything along the way?

[JadeDragon]

The people i assume is the arlathan elves(like the elves in arbor wilds). while we play as dalish elves(basically post fall if the glory age of elves). while solas and abelas are pre fall elves.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Simplest answer is that different people have different opinions on what constitutes a "real elf."

[TK514]

Simplest answer is that different people have different opinions on what constitutes a "real elf."

 

I agree.

 

As far as Solas and the elves at the Temple of Mythal are concerned, modern day elves are nothing.  Since they both date from the time of elven dominance, they have a specific view of what it means to be an elf, and the current sad representations do not qualify.

 

Flemeth's opinion is, similarly, based on her frame of reference.  She is not an elven goddess.  She is merged with a fragment of one, but she is fundamentally human, and, unlike Solas and the Temple Elves, she has lived in the present.  She's had time to become accustomed to the current state of elven decline as 'normal', since she lived through an enormous chunk of it.

 

The fact of the matter is, modern elves have very little in common with the elves of Arlathan, save pointy ears and some similar words.  Ancient Elves, with their immortality and dimension-spanning empire, would probably consider the modern day elves as no better than animals.

[Sunnie]

Since Solas is an Elven God, I am going to assume that "The People" refers to "all" Elven kind, not just the ancient survivors or the current Elves. The surviving ancient elves need to find a place in the modern world, and the modern elves need to find the truth of their ancient roots.

[jlb524]

Basically agree with the others here.

Flemeth thinks of you as The People and Solas does not and will likely be excluded from his 'help'.

They are two different gods dealing with different circumstances. Flemythal always seemed to respect the Dalish (and they've been known to help her out) so it makes sense.

[Bad King]

OP, Solas is rather contradictory on this topic. A couple of times, he does acknowledge modern elves as 'his people' (e.g his conversation with Lavellan after Haven's destruction), but he also seems taken aback when you suggest this kinship in a conversation about Briala in which he states that he doesn't feel any particular special kinship link with other elves. Probably just inconsistent writing.

 

Here's my thread on this topic with a few quotes: http://forum.bioware.../#entry18570166

[earymir]

I think he initially doesn't consider Dalish elves or other elves to be The People because they have fallen so far and finds the thought offensive.  (aka what other people have said here) - I do agree with what I think Sunnie was implying - that by the end, Solas finds that the modern elves need him to make their comeback.  He grows a lot in this regard over the course of the story, and meeting Abelas and seeing the current state of the elves gave him some kind of renewed motivation and possibly modified goals.  

[QueenCrow]

Great topic!

 

This has been on my mind too, and has brought about the realization of an evolution, at least in my game play.

 

At the beginning of the game, I -meaning my Dalish Inquisitor- was all-Elf.  During the Solas "You're Dalish, are you not?" interchange, I chose "We are all of the same people, Solas." option.  

 

Then I had the conversations about Elves with Solas in Haven, the one in which my options were limited and he disapproved of nearly everything I said, most of which was antagonistic.  Then the Abelas exchange as Gervaise has mentioned turns the feeling a little more.   I did the "our people" scene, discussing Briala with Solas - he said "Our people?"  ... confused pause ...  "Oh!  You mean elves!"  I did the "Dalish got the vallaslin all wrong" scene too.  Alienation begins to slowly take over in the story line.

 

By the end of the game I don't give a sh*t who has pointy ears and who doesn't.  And I don't want to be even remotely related to Solas.

 

Spoiler

 No kidding, he shouldn't have given his orb to Corypheus!  And then tells me I shouldn't be distracted from my duty to clean it all up?

 

So my answer, and I've played elves almost exclusively in all Dragon Age games, is yes.  I am one "the People", but my people are made up of Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Qunari, Tevinters, Dalish, Orlesians, City Elves, Fereldans, Mages, Avvar, Templars, etc.  But not Solas.

[Reznore57]

Flemythal was living in the world and dealing with Dalish tribes , even if they didn't know who she was.

In the Stolen Throne , Dalish follow her orders (not the local Chasind who are really afraid of her), in DA2 we also learn she helped Merrill/Warden clan.We don't know how exactly .

Anyway even if she's not Mythal to them , they had respect (and fear) for Asha Bellanar.

Mythal was really powerful , she got murdered , and come back as a swamp witch.I think she got some perspective about the whole falling from grace , she fell , the elves fell too .

I believe she didn't say anything because well...what could she do exactly?

Anyway the woman lives in current Thedas , she knows her title as a Goddess is meaningless now , and she knows the People are nomads and servants.

 

Solas on the other hand was busy sleeping and frolicking with spirits .When he wakes up , all he can see is "Well things aren't how I wanted them to be."

He's not moving on , he still wants the highly magical elven empire , just with different politics.

The city elves are uneducated , so he's not too fond of them.

The Dalish are educated but since they don't want to listen to the TRUTH, they are also unworthy.

Anyway Solas is an elitist , I think he feels bad for the current elves , but he's disappointed in them.

I guess he misses his old elven buddies who weren't scared of spirits and spend years and years working on a beautiful spell or whatever.Let's face it the current elves dreams of getting an homeland or maybe grab a title like Briala...the old elves were building the Crossroads another realm , using magic.Not even Tevinter got closed to that ...

So yeah the current elves aren't really his people.

 

About Sera , I just don't understand why people are so upset about it.

In the Chant of Light , other Gods are false gods.They aren't god , people are taught the old gods gave blood magic and stuff to the magisters.

Now she goes in an elven temple , with a magical well , priests are under a geas , there's an eluvian in there , and the text about the Gods are ...bad.If Solas is in there , he will talk about the dark side of those gods.

Why would she think they are any different from archdemons?Also Statues of Mythal with wings etc...

[Bad King]

I think he initially doesn't consider Dalish elves or other elves to be The People because they have fallen so far and finds the thought offensive.  (aka what other people have said here) - I do agree with what I think Sunnie was implying - that by the end, Solas finds that the modern elves need him to make their comeback.  He grows a lot in this regard over the course of the story, and meeting Abelas and seeing the current state of the elves gave him some kind of renewed motivation and possibly modified goals.  

 

But early in the game he specifically refers to Lavellan (and Sera) as one of his people. See my post above for the details.

[Karlone123]

I agree.

 

As far as Solas and the elves at the Temple of Mythal are concerned, modern day elves are nothing.  Since they both date from the time of elven dominance, they have a specific view of what it means to be an elf, and the current sad representations do not qualify.

 

Flemeth's opinion is, similarly, based on her frame of reference.  She is not an elven goddess.  She is merged with a fragment of one, but she is fundamentally human, and, unlike Solas and the Temple Elves, she has lived in the present.  She's had time to become accustomed to the current state of elven decline as 'normal', since she lived through an enormous chunk of it.

 

The fact of the matter is, modern elves have very little in common with the elves of Arlathan, save pointy ears and some similar words.  Ancient Elves, with their immortality and dimension-spanning empire, would probably consider the modern day elves as no better than animals.

 

Abelas' opinion on modern day elves "primitives".

[Gervaise]

To be honest I was always less bothered by what Solas says, since I don't know he's a god in game, but Abelas really hurt.   Also the fact is that he knows the modern elves are out there but doesn't care.    My male Lavellan never has the heart to heart about the vallaslin with Solas, so he's left to find out about his "slave markings" from Corypheus.      However, hearing Abelas acknowledge Solas as one of his own but not my Lavellan really made him think, but of course I wasn't allowed to quiz him about it back at Skyhold.   Him making off immediately after the fight wasn't entirely a surprise since he probably guessed I want to know more.    Also there is that burnt paper from Sampson's journal where he describes talking with Cory and the latter telling him the orb was elven and how he seemed to get a lot of his knowledge from it and Solas' conversation with Dorian about the Focii.

 

However, back to the topic in hand, there is also that stuff about our blood being different and better for blood magic than normal stuff.    So even though we've lost our immortality and many of us no longer have any magical ability, we're still stuck with that legacy.    I hope if Solas does form the plotline of the next game, the modern elves aren't forced into following him by the writers because my Inquisitor for one thinks he and his ancient brethren like Abelas can stick their help from now on.   He'll be advocating co-operation with human neighbours and building their own future rather than constantly looking back at a past that doesn't want them.   Mind you he pretty much told Solas as much though knowing Solas he probably didn't listen and only heard what he wanted to hear.

[QueenCrow]

Abelas' opinion on modern day elves "primitives".

 

Clearly the Elves, and perhaps other cultures, have been through a series of "Dark Ages" brought on by the infighting of ancient elves combined with a series of blights.  And everyone is always looking for someone else to blame.

 

It seems to me that Solas looks for a solution, but also looks for reason to place blame on modern elves when he, himself, as the story stands, is highly suspect in responsibility. I agree with Reznore57 that Solas is an elitist and it ticked me off when he started speaking Elven to Sera ( in party banter) and when she didn't play along, he basically snapped, "How could I ever think you could be one of the People?", rejecting her.

 

On a side note, my husband was resistant to the idea that an elven character couldn't read the inscriptions at the Temple of Mythal.  We applied the Beowulf theory to that and figured that it would be as difficult for a modern Elf to read thousand year old inscriptions as it would for a modern English speaker to read Beowulf in old English.  points down

 

 

 

HWÆT, WE GAR-DEna in geardagum,
þeodcyninga þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon! 

 

I also wonder if Angles and Saxons would be disappointed in modern English/Anglophones- lazily tapping away at keys, playing games, killing our foes by pushing a button instead of looking them in the eyes.  I'd bet there would be a culture clash, as with Solas, Abelas, et al.  I'll wager that though many of us are of those people, we're not those people anymore.

[Nefla]

I think Solas is looking to help all elves and not just ancient elves. Didn't Cole say something to Lavellan along the lines of Solas being surprised that Lavellan was "real" and maybe more elves were "real" as well?

[Br3admax]

I also wonder if Angles and Saxons would be disappointed in modern English/Anglophones- lazily tapping away at keys, playing games, killing our foes by pushing a button instead of looking them in the eyes.  I'd bet there would be a culture clash, as with Solas, Abelas, et al.  I'll wager that though many of us are of those people, we're not those people anymore.

The difference of course being that Anglo-Saxons are gross, where as we are not. 

[thats1evildude]

The Dalish elves don't consider city elves to be "true" elves. It's amusing to learn that to an ancient elf, the Dalish aren't "true" elves either.

[Bad King]

The Dalish elves don't consider city elves to be "true" elves. It's amusing to learn that to an ancient elf, the Dalish aren't "true" elves either.

 

According to Pol in DA:O, many city elves say the same thing about the Dalish.

[Bunny]

I'll just take my bootleg elf friends and we're going to tear this **** up. You fancy name brand elves can kiss my Sundermount.

[In Exile]

OP, Solas is rather contradictory on this topic. A couple of times, he does acknowledge modern elves as 'his people' (e.g his conversation with Lavellan after Haven's destruction), but he also seems taken aback when you suggest this kinship in a conversation about Briala in which he states that he doesn't feel any particular special kinship link with other elves. Probably just inconsistent writing.

Here's my thread on this topic with a few quotes: http://forum.bioware.../#entry18570166

The best way to reconcile this is to say that he thinks of himself as a steward for elven kind without caring one bit about modern elven culture. He wants to save his elves (of which you are technically part of because you're what he needs to save) without caring about your beliefs, culture or ideals. All that he wants gone.

[KaiserShep]

The Dalish elves don't consider city elves to be "true" elves. It's amusing to learn that to an ancient elf, the Dalish aren't "true" elves either.

 

City elves: You savages aren't true elves.

 

Dalish elves: You'd might as well be diminutive shems!

 

Abelas: Haha! B*tches. Nun'yall's the real deal.

[In Exile]

City elves: You savages aren't true elves.

Dalish elves: You'd might as well be diminutive shems!

Abelas: Haha! B*tches. Nun'yall's the real deal.

The Dalish and CE story is very much about how harmful their views are to their own growth as a people. The CEs are too caught up in being what others - the humans - tell then to be to survive to bring real change for themselves. The Dalish are too caught up dreaming about the past to bring about real change for the elves.

I think their story is about giving up these ideals and comforts, and risking everything for a new future to move away from Arlathan and what they were to what they are now. Solas in this story is an antagonist only in the sense that he wants to bring back a past that doesn't exist (like Corypheus).

[KaiserShep]

Well, his head is crammed up a thousand years ago, after all.

[nikitalauncher]

[Cz-99]

The Elves just don't like each other. If they were willing to destroy one another when they were most alike (right before Tevinter came in to stomp on the scraps) it's no surprise they don't like each other nowadays. Abelas and his crew are the oldest Elves that actually have a firsthand account of the 'old culture', at least to a certain extent. It's just a shame they don't seem willing to teach the modern-day Elves and help bring back the old traditions. Well, unless Bioware decides to make one of the possible WoS endings canon - or at least takes your choice into account for later games.