59 réponses à ce sujet

[turuzzusapatuttu]

 

 

 

Spoiler

[Gervaise]

Don't forget also Solas question to you about whether the anchor has had any affect on your character.    Looking back on that conversation I wonder if he really thought his wretched orb/anchor was the reason for your "wisdom", since he was so incredulous that the Dalish could have raised such a paragon.   First time I played I was a female elf who was romancing him and thus a bit love struck or to put it another way, kept choosing the heart icon which usually ended in us kissing and put an end to any rational conversation.    Subsequent PCs have been male Dalish who have been somewhat frustrated in not being able to quiz him more.

 

I definitely got the irony of Abelas saying you are not of the People, which is exactly what a lot of Dalish say about the city elves.    However, both my Warden's clan and even Zathrian did take in elves who had left the city and treated them as one of their own.   I wonder just how many clans Solas did approach in making his judgement on the whole.  

 

Still for the life of me can't fathom why he would (willingly) give his orb to Corypheus but he didn't contradict Flemeth so I must assume he did.    If he was willing to nap for a millennium then whatever he had planned could surely wait a few more years while he powered up himself?     And as he was willing to admit, once people discovered the orb was elven then the modern elves, city and Dalish, would likely get the blame for anything that happened.    However, given his enthusiasm for personal freedom, you'd think that giving the "People" the choice whether or not they wanted to be helped would be appropriate.     So modern elves aren't his People when it comes to enlightening them about the past, just because a few of them were unfriendly towards him, but are his People when it come to interfering and taking unilateral action to improve things?    I do hope not.

 

My latest Lavellan went the whole hog on the Herald of Andraste thing and claimed he was a believer, even if he was really an agnostic about the Maker, because I enjoyed annoying Solas without ever going far enough that he would denounce me altogether.     Didn't want to give him that sort of satisfaction.     Yes, I'm another of those petty people who really can't forgive him for the way he treated my poor girl Lavellan.

[rapscallioness]

Very interesting, OP. I had not thought of that distinction until now. The one where Solas says the People need him. At that moment I just assumed he meant all elves, though it did confuse me a bit because of some of the previous conversations.

 

Maybe he does just mean the ancient elves? Idk.

 

My heart goes out to the city elves the most. They are not welcome anywhere. Although there are some clans that will take some in, the idea that the Dalish--overall--see them as less is known to the city elves. Then on the other hand, they are not welcome amongst the shem. Trying to hold on to a little piece of themselves with that tree.

 

I remember playing a city elf in DAO. The kids that had no stories of elven heroes. I had to make one up for them--on the fly. To see them light up. To hear them using the story and names in their playing....it made me both happy and sad.

 

Solas and Abelas were definitely like a bucket of cold water thrown in your face. But after everything I learned, I was like, you know what, eff you, too. I don't want to be like you. You all effed it up and we're still paying the price. Infighting of Arlathan. Solas for whatever reason giving this orb to Cory.

 

"You're not one of the People"...well, thank the creators for small miracles, eh? I think we can take it from here. As the New People.

[Unpleasant Implications]

That depends, do you accept his D or no?

[Shahadem]

The Dalish are a people, the Arlathians are a people. They just aren't the same people. Especially since the Dalish interbred with the humans and are now all mongrels whereas the Arlathians are pure elf.

[TEWR]

OP, Solas is rather contradictory on this topic. A couple of times, he does acknowledge modern elves as 'his people' (e.g his conversation with Lavellan after Haven's destruction), but he also seems taken aback when you suggest this kinship in a conversation about Briala in which he states that he doesn't feel any particular special kinship link with other elves. Probably just inconsistent writing.

 

Here's my thread on this topic with a few quotes: http://forum.bioware.../#entry18570166

 

Or potentially Solas is a bad liar and can't keep his stories straight.

 

But that would strain credulity since the narrative wants us to believe Solas had us all fooled, so I'm gonna go with sloppy writing as well.

 

The best way to reconcile this is to say that he thinks of himself as a steward for elven kind without caring one bit about modern elven culture. He wants to save his elves (of which you are technically part of because you're what he needs to save) without caring about your beliefs, culture or ideals. All that he wants gone.

 

So he's a hypocrite then who advocates freedom for all beings, yet only if it meshes up with his definition of freedom?

 

Makes sense, given his stance on the Qun.

[BioWareM0d13]

 

Sera seems to deny the evidence of her own eyes in the Temple of Mythal.   Clearly there were old elven gods.   They may well have been demons masquerading as gods but they did exist.    She seemed to be in complete denial because for some reason she thinks that elven gods being real can't coexist with belief in the Maker.    According to her diary she's been trying to study the Chant but found it boring.   Pity, really, since she would have seen that the whole point is that the creations of the Maker turned away from his worship to other "gods".    To my mind, if anything the proof that the elven gods did exist but were not the benign entities they are made out to be by the Dalish, endorses rather than contradicts the Chant.

 

 

How does Sera react if she was brought along on the final mission of Jaws of Hakkon?

 

Spoiler

At the end the first Inquisitor is found to still be alive and preserved by a time magic spell he had cast out of desperation, in his final battle. He's also one of the elfy elves that Sera hates, complete with vallaslin. Interestingly though, one of the first thing he asks when revived is whether the chant has spread to the four corners of the world. His dialogue implies that he is a devout Andrastian, yet he also believes in the Creators. It raises the question of whether his beliefs were unique, or whether the Andrastian faith was polytheistic in the ancient era.

[inquartata02]

The Dalish are a people, the Arlathians are a people. They just aren't the same people. Especially since the Dalish interbred with the humans and are now all mongrels whereas the Arlathians are pure elf.

 

Elf+human=human, so any elf is still a pure elf, Dalish or ancient. Their cultures are vastly different, though, that's for sure.

[SwobyJ]

I don't think its bad writing, personally.

 

Solas has his lying side and his honest side.

 

Sometimes you're speaking to his lying side, and sometimes you're speaking to his honest side, but more than anything, I don't think Solas himself really knows what's the lie and what's the truth. What's his cover and what's his reality.

 

He may wish to view modern elves as not his People (later in game), but he views them as People nonetheless (especially with Lavellan influence).

He may wish to view modern elves as his People (earlier in game), but he views them as not his People nonetheless (especially if you harden his personality).

 

He can't make up his mind. I don't think this is bad writing, but a character trait. When he lies, he's always telling the truth. When he's telling the truth, he's always lying.

 

I mean, he can great respect the Inquisitor, but runs off. LOL. That's the person we're dealing with. He's walking, talking, force of nature. And he's a grand, world changing, ...person. With many faults, even in his mindset.

 

You can consider him an enemy, or a great friend. Consider him a hypocrite, or misunderstood. Consider him to be too complicated to easily understand, or too singleminded to tolerate.

 

I'm not super pumping him up though. I'm a Solas fan but damn, I get it when people hate him. There's very good reason to. But I don't think his case is bad writing.

[Bunny]

[Sundance31us]

Mythal considers my Elven Inquisitor one of "the people" and that's the only opinion that really counts to him, so if Abelas or Solas have an issue with that they should take it up with her.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind watching that interaction.

[Lebanese Dude]

 

 

 

lolol

[Spetulhu]

Some elves would like to be superior beings of a perfect race. And when a central part of your world view is that your race is perfect you can only deal with seeing imperfection in so many ways. The Dalish look down on city elves and Solas&company look down on all modern elves. We're perfect... can those really be considered elves?

 

They can be just as bad as us humans when dealing with those of "the people" who don't measure up to their standards. Some of us might realize we have to help others become better, but many just dismiss them as worthless scum and gather in their own little perfect circle instead.

[Tamyn]

When Abelas called me a shemlen I assumed it was a scripting error, along with my Lavellan acting like an idiot in the Temple of Mythal. "Durr... what does this statue mean Morrigan? I dun know nuthin 'bout them elfy gods."

[LonewandererD]

Just as the Dalish look down on City Elves so do the Ancient Elves look down on the Dalish. Sort of the same way a person can look down on a countrymen and call them "not of my people" for a myriad of reasons, like how some people who aren't patriotic get called Un-American. (I'm not from the US but seems to be a very common phrase bandied around)

 

-D-

[Shechinah]

(to Tamyn) Unlike the other stuff (I sincerely hope the writer who thought it was a scripting error was right), Abelas calling a elven Inquisitor a shemlen makes sense.  

[Sunnie]

(to Tamyn) Unlike the other stuff (I sincerely hope the writer who thought it was a scripting error was right), Abelas calling a elven Inquisitor a shemlen makes sense.  

Especially since a Shem is what the elves referred to as someone who is short lived.

[JadeDragon]

Will solas and his people be a enemy in future games? So far we had qunari and human enemies even a few dwarves if you count the carta but no out right elven baddies yet.

[zambingo]

I know this will get flack, but as I played the game I felt that Solas was a controlling douche. He professes wisdom, knowledge, but "teaches" in a manner that leaves the student in the dark. Seemingly not as a method of all in good time and learn more first. Instead it feels like knowledge is power he will dribble some out to you so you continue to seek his counsel and acquise to his POV. When you question his POV, he disapproves. When you think along the path he lays for you, he approves. If you prompt him to teach other elves, he disapproves and insists they wouldn't understand. All this seems to add up to a person that believes only they know right, and they will control knowledge to keep their position of right. I was not surprised by his end reveal.

In short: Don't worry so much about what Solas says about the People. Chances are he didn't actually like the People questioning him either...

[Shechinah]

I think what he says is that he questions what good it'll do for a city elf to know that their ancestors walked something and that he questions if the Dalish would believe him, an outsider, and implies he tried once but it ended badly.

[zambingo]

My son tried brussel sprouts once, hated them. He's 16 now and loves them. I feel that Solas teaching once and giving up because dumb students is more an indicator about him as a teacher than the students.

[SwobyJ]

I know this will get flack, but as I played the game I felt that Solas was a controlling douche. He professes wisdom, knowledge, but "teaches" in a manner that leaves the student in the dark. Seemingly not as a method of all in good time and learn more first. Instead it feels like knowledge is power he will dribble some out to you so you continue to seek his counsel and acquise to his POV. When you question his POV, he disapproves. When you think along the path he lays for you, he approves. If you prompt him to teach other elves, he disapproves and insists they wouldn't understand. All this seems to add up to a person that believes only they know right, and they will control knowledge to keep their position of right. I was not surprised by his end reveal.

In short: Don't worry so much about what Solas says about the People. Chances are he didn't actually like the People questioning him either...

 

He just prefers not to indoctrinate. "You'll just come to the truth of things on your own" lol. Its why he loves when you ask him things but he hates when you take action based purely on his information

 

So I wouldn't say he's controlling. I'd say that he's manipulative. I wouldn't consider those to be the exact same things.

 

And you can play an Inquisitor who will take all the info he has, let it 'enrich' your Inquisitor, while still disagreeing with him. Hell, he puts up a fuss but seems to love that in the end.

 

He wants you to think like him, yes. But he's not forcing you into it. I'd say that's not 'controlling' at all.

 

That all said, he definitely has flaws. In fact, I'd say that him time with the Inquisition at least slightly reveals his flaws to himself, and a positive-relationship Solas, while ultimately not one of the Inner Circle in the end, may have come out of the experience a better person then before, and more hesitant about his path of action and thought. The good thing about Solas is that he's willing to learn when given clear enough evidence (even though he scoffs at bestowing his knowledge on those who don't want to hear it or change from it).

 

Agreed with the end part. He seems to want 'The People' back, but even that wouldn't be his end goal still. He seems to want to do something massive to them (and us) whether they're aware of what he's doing and why he's doing it, or not. This may or may not be villainous, but its at least antagonistic next to the Inquisitor's personality (regardless of RP of Inquiz). Inquiz always wants the others to know what he's up to and why he's doing it. He widely vocalizes it. Solas, not so much. "They wouldn't understand." Even if Solas is ultimately right about everything or nearly everything, his attitude is his undoing. He knows this now, but is finding it hard to change.

[SwobyJ]

My son tried brussel sprouts once, hated them. He's 16 now and loves them. I feel that Solas teaching once and giving up because dumb students is more an indicator about him as a teacher than the students.

 

How do you know he only tried once?

 

But even so, these are matters beyond veggie choice. They involve the fabric of reality and the organization of the largest powers of the world. He's not the ideal teacher ('teacher' wouldn't be the first word to call him when it comes to how he expresses himself), but who else is there?

 

And he's still 'human' (as the saying goes; not literally). If every Dalish he meets rejects his truth, how much patience do you expect him to have?

 

I'm not saying he's good about this all. I'm just saying that I find it easy to understand where his thoughts and feelings may have been, and even find it sympathetic to a point. He's still limited, but still wants to help the world ("SOLAS STAHHP! YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE!" lol). 

 

I like being friendly to Solas because I like seeing him notice that maybe (MAYYBEEE) the Inquisitor is better at what Solas may want to achieve, than Solas himself is. It hasn't gotten through his head yet, but I like the progress.

 

 

Why yes, I am a Rift Mage who wouldn't mind a safely thin to non-existent Veil at some point.

[Wulfram]

I'd say Solas considers all elves part of "The People" but wouldn't necessarily count himself among that number.

[TEWR]

I'd say Solas considers all elves part of "The People" but wouldn't necessarily count himself among that number.

 

Well, he does say "Our People" in talks to Sera.

 

He's a bit of a person who waffles on whether he considers himself one of The People or not. Probably stems from guilt.