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In Defense of Divine Leliana's Epilogue


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#1
CosmicGnosis

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Some people think that Leliana's "softened" epilogue strains credibility. Too many nugs and rainbows. But I think this epilogue is quite practical. Let's take a closer look.

 

 

1. Leliana is a bard/spy, and a master at backroom politics. She knows exactly what to say. She can be very persuasive. She can inspire and intimidate people with mere words, rather than with daggers, like in her "hardened" epilogue. Think of the Divine's feast in The Last Court; merely dropping the name "Marjolaine" is enough to blackmail Justinia. Leliana can dig up dirt on everyone.

 

2. She wants the Chantry's focus to be more on charity and inclusiveness, and less on sin and punishment. The people of southern Thedas will likely respond very well to this development, especially oppressed minorities. She can also manipulate Chantry doctrine to justify these changes; she will know which teachings and scripture verses to emphasize, and which ones to ignore. She can say that the Maker has left the world because the people hate more than they love. The only way to bring the Maker back, then, is to help and care for everyone. By winning the popular support of the people, Leliana will diminish the influence of Chantry leaders who don't approve of her changes. 

 

3. Here is the big one. After her popular support is firmly established, she will declare that the mages should be free. She will likely point to their support of the Inquisition to justify her abolition of the Circles. She can say that the mages helped the Inquisition save the world from a darkspawn Magister; the good mages defeated an evil mage. Thus, the Maker wants the mages to be free, for without them, the Inquistion would have failed. She knows that this will make many people uncomfortable, so she can frame it like this: The Maker wants the world to give the mages another chance. They will be watched closely. They know that everyone is judging them. They must prove that they can control their power. If they fail, then a different system can be implemented. But for now, give them a chance to prove their honor and dignity.

 

 

It should be understood that every Divine's best ending still leaves open the possibility that something may go wrong. The epilogue only tells us about the immediate future. I think Leliana's best ending is not as absurd as some have argued. Don't underestimate Leliana, don't underestimate the mages, and don't underestimate the people of Thedas.


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#2
Boomshakalakalakaboom

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Wow, really? Lol!
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#3
SgtSteel91

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I like that Leliana makes the Chantry more inclusive and dedicates it to charity rather than spreading the Chant everywhere as much as her dissolving the Circle. Nice reasoning how this ending is not that 'lore-breaking' as some believe.



#4
Catche Jagger

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Yeah... No. Her pulling off everything she does without causing violent infighting is still completely improbable. Not impossible, just like shooting a bullet with another bullet isn't "impossible" just so unlikely that any chance of success is miraculous.
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#5
Archdemon_Urthemiel

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Good points. We need more
Posts like this

#6
leaguer of one

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Yeah... No. Her pulling off everything she does without causing violent infighting is still completely improbable. Not impossible, just like shooting a bullet with another bullet isn't "impossible" just so unlikely that any chance of success is miraculous.

No one is say it does not. No matter who is picked infighting is going to happen. The difference is who is going to have the less clean up and most change afterwards.



#7
TheKomandorShepard

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:lol:

 

This is just ridiculous on so many levels that you see her marry suens as realistic and that you think she knows everything about everyone and that she can blackmail whole world into blind obedience.If she could blackmail whole world why in first place justinia had huge opposition and didn't stop mage-templar war if she is omniscient.

 

Also i love reasoning i gave 5 $ to the beggar so everyone will do what i say hell doing unpopular things even while being popular makes you unpopular not things popular.If pope said hitler was good guy people wouldn't start to love hitler they would start to hate pope... so no it doesn't work that way. 


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#8
Ynqve

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As much as I would like Leliana's sunshine and rainbows approach to work, I highly doubt it. Too much radical change too fast won't happen peacefully. Sure, she may end up on top but it will be a hell of a bloody fight. Which is why Darth Leliana's reign of terror is the realistic option if you want Leliana as Divine.  


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#9
Dark Helmet

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See this is why you should put someone sane on the throne.

 

Like Vivienne.

 

Anyway no thank you. I'll keep Social JusticeTM out of my supposedly dark fantasy.


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#10
Steelcan

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OR

 

she's a massive writer's pet

 

 

I'm debating whether I bother debating this point by point


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#11
AresKeith

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As much as I would like Leliana's sunshine and rainbows approach to work, I highly doubt it. Too much radical change too fast won't happen peacefully. Sure, she may end up on top but it will be a hell of a bloody fight. Which is why Darth Leliana's reign of terror is the realistic option if you want Leliana as Divine.  

 

That's my issue with it also, a radical change like that is a conflict magnet 



#12
BabyPuncher

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I really do not like Leliana.



#13
Br3admax

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Isn't it obvious? Leliana's beauty, grace, bearing, and bardic intrigue is so great, that she can do anything. Anyone who says otherwise is probably either:

 

a ) biased against freedom, i.e. a mage hater

or

b ) racist against elves. 

 

That's basically how this forum works, OP. Don't know why you made this thread. The haters are just going to get it closed with trolling. 


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#14
Dark Helmet

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I really do not like Leliana.

 

The Messiah has spoken.

 

Leliana does not get the HEROISM stamp of approval.


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#15
Steelcan

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I really do not like Leliana.

HE HAS SPOKEN AND IT IS THUS

 


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#16
Archdemon_Urthemiel

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I'm starting to wonder what's going to happen if leliana's ending doesn' backfire

#17
Steelcan

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I'm starting to wonder what's going to happen if leliana's ending doesn' backfire

probably nothing, because all the endings are gonna get retconned to fit the next story


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#18
FadelessRipley

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Kudos on your post, OP, and for actually putting thought into some good points (not sarcasm - big Leliana fan here, though sceptical of both her epilogues and prefer Cassandra for that and more selfish reasons. ;))

Now, best of luck to you on having your opinion ripped to shreds. :rolleyes: I suggest a drinking game: one shot for "Mary Sue", two shots for "Writer's Pet", and down your drink for "no possible justifiable reason for her to be in Inquisition whatsoever". :D
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#19
Fiery Phoenix

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I've said this before and I will say it again: There is no 'best' Divine. It all boils down to your own personal stance on the politics therein.

 

I would compare it to the Collector Base decision from ME2, but I think that would be going too far. Either way, you get my point. I really don't see the point in trying to convince others that your choice of the Divine is 'better' and vice versa.

 

That said, I fully agree with the OP.


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#20
I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE

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...Leliana's my favourite character in the series, but frankly even I prefer to just act like this ending isn't a thing anymore, not gonna lie. >.>


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#21
AresKeith

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I've said this before and I will say it again: There is no 'best' Divine. It all boils down to your own personal stance on the politics therein.

 

I would compare it to the Collector Base decision from ME2, but I think that would be going too far. Either way, you get my point. I really don't see the point in trying to convince others that your choice of the Divine is 'better'' and vice versa.

 

That said, I fully agree with the OP.

 

Since you mentioned it

 

inb4DarkOne


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#22
riverbanks

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But why do these Lelianites feel such a desperate need to justify their preference for her ending, though? There's a new thread "in defense of Leliana" at least twice a week... like anyone cares what you do in your own game. Like all this preaching about how perfect Leliana and her ending are is going to change the minds of people who don't want her to be Divine in their own games.

 

Can you just not choose your Divine and be happy with her and not bother justifying your choice? Seriously... no one cares. It's your game, make Schmooples II the new Divine if you want.


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#23
Steelcan

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Since you mentioned it

 

inb4DarkOne

this thread has already been graced by our lord savior, nothing can change that!



#24
AresKeith

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this thread has already been graced by our lord savior, nothing can change that!

 

Surprised he doesn't like Leliana



#25
AresKeith

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But why do these Lelianites feel such a desperate need to justify their preference for her ending, though? There's a new thread "in defense of Leliana" at least twice a week... like anyone cares what you do in your own game. Like all this preaching about how perfect Leliana and her ending are is going to change the minds of people who don't want her to be Divine in their own games.

 

Can you just not choose your Divine and be happy with her and not bother justifying your choice? Seriously... no one cares. It's your game, make Schmooples II the new Divine if you want.

 

Doesn't have a nice ring to it lol :P