the same could be said of other vivites and cassandites they all do it. sides i tote sunshine lels but i dont go bananas bout it lol
Oh, I don't know, Monkey. I don't see other Vivites or Cassandites doing it that often, and while I may sound biased here. I do think certain Lelianites bond to step over the line. Seriously, people should mind their own business, and no one is truly cares about what other people doing in their game. Well, at least we don't go bananas about it. 
this the bsn we cant mind our own bussiness hahaOh, I don't know, Monkey. I don't see other Vivites or Cassandites doing it that often, and while I may sound biased here. I do think certain Lelianites bond to step over the line. Seriously, people should mind their own business, and no one is truly cares about what other people doing in their game. Well, at least we don't go bananas about it.
To be honest op seems harmless still why couldn't this just go in one of the threads discussing the endings?
this the Internet we cant mind our own bussiness haha
FIFY.
I imagine the Inquisition has to deal with all that mess anyway...
What's funny is right after freeing the mages , you get a couple of mission to help them because people wants to gut them.
One of them is a letter from a templar who's keeping the peasant from purging the circle.
If you conscript the mages, you have 3 runaways to deal with shortly after acquiring Skyhold, and Leliana suggests letting them go free as a punishment to them.
This is not followed up on in any meaningful way, aside from the suggestion that there may be trouble sometime down the line.
Now what does that remind me of??
If you conscript the mages, you have 3 runaways to deal with shortly after acquiring Skyhold, and Leliana suggests letting them go free as a punishment to them.
This is not followed up on in any meaningful way, aside from the suggestion that there may be trouble sometime down the line.
Now what does that remind me of??
...What?
because dalish bashing is so three months ago
I wrote the OP because more people complain about Leliana's epilogue than about Cassandra's and Vivienne's. I wanted to argue that it doesn't break the lore.
It's interesting how annoyed some people are about this. Did I touch a nerve?
I made a similar thread a while ago. Don't really get the whole hate that simply mentioning divine leliana causes, especially given that you posted reasonable reason a why her rule could be successful.I wrote the OP because more people complain about Leliana's epilogue than about Cassandra's and Vivienne's. I wanted to argue that it doesn't break the lore.
It's interesting how annoyed some people are about this. Did I touch a nerve?
I wrote the OP because more people complain about Leliana's epilogue than about Cassandra's and Vivienne's. I wanted to argue that it doesn't break the lore.
It's interesting how annoyed some people are about this. Did I touch a nerve?
No more than any other topic
Leliana's ending is just unrealistic and in defiance of lore and all common sense in Thedas
No more than any other topic
Leliana's ending is just unrealistic and in defiance of lore and all common sense in Thedas
I just have to disagree. I think people are just convinced that things in Thedas will never change. I'm actually curious in which scenario would Leliana's reforms would have been "realistic". What would have to happen before elves were allowed into the Chantry that didn't already happen in Inquisition?
You'd have to go back to DA2 and Origins, where elves and dwarves were allowed in the chantry.
I just have to disagree. I think people are just convinced that things in Thedas will never change. I'm actually curious in which scenario would Leliana's reforms would have been "realistic". What would have to happen before elves were allowed into the Chantry that didn't already happen in Inquisition?
It's not so much that Leliana enacts change, it is that it is too much, too soon. The unhardened epilogue stretches suspension of disbelief a bit. She is dealing with a society that largely views mages as too dangerous to be independent and elves as little more than uncivilized savages. Yet in that climate she somehow gets the Ciricle system abandoned and non-humans admitted to the Chantry priesthood, and without having to use force. It is mentioned that several breakaway Andrastian sects emerge, declaring her as a threat to the faith, but she gets them to stand down and return to the fold through peaceful negotiation. There's just too much sunshine & rainbows for it to be believable.
While I prefer unhardened Leliana as a character in DA:I, I think the hardened version gets a more believable epilogue. She accomplishes the same reforms, but has to use force against the 'heretics' in order to do it.
It's not so much that Leliana enacts change, it is that it is too much, too soon. The unhardened epilogue stretches suspension of disbelief a bit. She is dealing with a society that largely views mages as too dangerous to be independent and elves as little more than uncivilized savages. Yet in that climate she somehow gets the Ciricle system abandoned and non-humans admitted to the Chantry priesthood, and without having to use force. It is mentioned that several breakaway Andrastian sects emerge, declaring her as a threat to the faith, but she gets them to stand down and return to the fold through peaceful negotiation. There's just too much sunshine & rainbows for it to be believable.
While I prefer unhardened Leliana as a character in DA:I, I think the hardened version gets a more believable epilogue. She accomplishes the same reforms, but has to use force against the 'heretics' in order to do it.
Keep in mind that the Circles were already gone. She wasn't closing Circles that existed already, she was just allowing the already-independent mages to stay that way. I would say that that's not quite the same thing.
Also, the climate of southern Thedas at the moment is "exhausted and, in large part, wanting nothing more than for all the crises to stop." Only the real diehards would attempt violent action against Leliana's reforms; the rest might grumble, but I think most people would just be glad that things were starting to settle down again. In any case, Orlais' ruler, and probably Ferelden's, are indebted to the Inquisition and, by extension, the Divine.
One does not need to defend the epilogue, OP. Pick which epilogue you like and play the game to get that epilogue. Or just play the game and be happy with whatever epilogue you get.
Personally, I like bit of violence coming from a religious institution, especially one that is dedicated to monotheism. It keeps things realistic and grounded for me. I have studied sufficient history to know that only Jainism and some specific sect of Buddhism to be nonviolent religions.
If I did not study any history, then Leliana's benevolent Divine might be more appealing to me but with what I know about monotheistic religions, about enacting change in religions...Some blood has to flow and some people just have to die to make it real...
So Leliana's hardened Divine rule is my favorite.
One does not need to defend the epilogue, OP. Pick which epilogue you like and play the game to get that epilogue. Or just play the game and be happy with whatever epilogue you get.
Personally, I like bit of violence coming from a religious institution, especially one that is dedicated to monotheism. It keeps things realistic and grounded for me. I have studied sufficient history to know that only Jainism and some specific sect of Buddhism to be nonviolent religions.
If I did not study any history, then Leliana's benevolent Divine might be more appealing to me but with what I know about monotheistic religions, about enacting change in religions...Some blood has to flow and some people just have to die to make it real...
So Leliana's hardened Divine rule is my favorite.
I thought most sects of Buddhism are nonviolent?
Not really. Some sects are responsible for the creation of Kamikaze Japanese pilots, which is a fancy of saying suicide bombers on a plane. There is also the treatment of Rohingyas at the hands of Burmese monks. http://en.wikipedia....ism_of_Buddhism . Then there is Tibetan Buddhism which has a whole host of problems. https://www.youtube....h?v=dBH0ywUUx5k . You also have the hocus pocus nonsense such as karma, reincarnation, fortune telling, ancestral worship and so on.
You probably get the idea that Buddhism as a whole is nonviolent because the West tends to paint anything Eastern as this unique, awesome and super cool thing. Thankfully as a Southeast Asian Historian that bullshite does not work with me.
Hence my statement why only some sects of Buddhism are actually nonviolent. There is also Jainism but even that religion has its issues with people believing in hocus pocus nonsense and fasting to death and they are the most nonviolent religion to my knowledge.
To be fair and to be frank, a nonviolent religion is quite difficult to find that for all intents and purposes, you can consider the term nonviolent religion an oxymoron.
Which is why softened Leliana as a benevolent Divine Victoria does not make much sense. Even religious reformers who have the best of intentions end up creating death, destruction and blood in some form. I mean, you have people like Martin Luther who wanted Reformation of the Catholic Church and to cut a long story short, it lead to a religious civil war in Europe which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands and was responsible for the Enlightenment as well as the idea of separation of Church and State.
Not really. Some sects are responsible for the creation of Kamikaze Japanese pilots, which is a fancy of saying suicide bombers on a plane. There is also the treatment of Rohingyas at the hands of Burmese monks. http://en.wikipedia....ism_of_Buddhism . Then there is Tibetan Buddhism which has a whole host of problems. . You also have the hocus pocus nonsense such as karma, reincarnation, fortune telling, ancestral worship and so on.
You probably get the idea that Buddhism as a whole is nonviolent because the West tends to paint anything Eastern as this unique, awesome and super cool thing. Thankfully as a Southeast Asian Historian that bullshite does not work with me.
Hence my statement why only some sects of Buddhism are actually nonviolent. There is also Jainism but even that religion has its issues with people believing in hocus pocus nonsense and fasting to death and they are the most nonviolent religion to my knowledge.
To be fair and to be frank, a nonviolent religion is quite difficult to find that for all intents and purposes, you can consider the term nonviolent religion an oxymoron.
Which is why softened Leliana as a benevolent Divine Victoria does not make much sense. Even religious reformers who have the best of intentions end up creating death, destruction and blood in some form. I mean, you have people like Martin Luther who wanted Reformation of the Catholic Church and to cut a long story short, it lead to a religious civil war in Europe which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands and was responsible for the Enlightenment as well as the idea of separation of Church and State.
It's partly because I'm western and partly because I thought compassion was a big part of achieving enlightenment but this is interesting. I do wonder what exactly you have against karma, reincarnation and other mystical aspects though, don't these beliefs sort of make up religions?
I am just anti-superstition. If this was in ancient times where many did not know how the world works, one can justify being superstitious and upholding superstitious values.
But now, in the modern age, there is just no excuse for being superstitious and upholding superstitious values, for its just being ignorant. Not when you have access to most of the world's information via internet.
Another thread about Divine Leliana with Lelianites preaching how perfect Leliana and her endings is, trying to convince people to change their mind into agreeing with them. Hmm, this formula is very familiar, and we've seen it too many time. And before you Lelianites start attacking people who supporting Cassandra or Vivienne as divine, tbh I don't see them frequently create a thread to convince people that they're right. I have nothing against Leliana, but by the Stone! Some of these Lelianites feel desperately need to shove their opinion and beliefs down to other people's throat don't they.
They want to create a perfect world. By changes of Leliana, I believe they this is seen as a ''good'' thing.
Among these three, I prefer to create a female character and make her as divine. A pity not to have that option.
I wrote the OP because more people complain about Leliana's epilogue than about Cassandra's and Vivienne's. I wanted to argue that it doesn't break the lore.
It's interesting how annoyed some people are about this. Did I touch a nerve?
I wrote the OP because more people complain about Leliana's epilogue than about Cassandra's and Vivienne's. I wanted to argue that it doesn't break the lore.
It's interesting how annoyed some people are about this. Did I touch a nerve?
It more has to do with some people (not trying say names 
) trying to play off their Divine choice is the "perfect" choice
Specifically the Leliana one over the other Divines
It more has to do with some people (not trying say names
Specifically the Leliana one over the other Divines
I wrote the OP because more people complain about Leliana's epilogue than about Cassandra's and Vivienne's. I wanted to argue that it doesn't break the lore.
It's interesting how annoyed some people are about this. Did I touch a nerve?
Don't worry, you're topic is fine. I think this really is just because we're the most splintered fan base that ever formed.
Bioware designs these characters and events to work for different mind sets and different perspectives. There isn't a very good reason why these things can't be discussed politely and thoughtfully. It's just that unfortunately we sometimes don't bother.
I'm not a big fan of Leliana as Divine, but to be fair, I'm not a big fan of any of the three options as Divine. I've flip-flopped on this issue because I'm still so resentful that we can't favor Gisele. lol.
I think Leliana has the potential for immense compassion, but not a very strong sense of personal conviction, as evidenced by the possibility of "hardening" her in two different games. Sometimes she suggests things that give me pause when it comes to putting her on the Sunburst throne...Like suggesting we cut a Minstrel's tongue out for their saying a unflattering things about the Inquisition. These things make me feel like she needs a nice leisurely retirement where she can rest and not have to deal with politics and intrigue.
That said, I have a Leliana Divine world state, just as I have world states for the other two as Divine. There are pros and cons in each case, and I think we run into trouble when people start suggesting any of them are objectively bad.
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