169 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

*raises hand*

Ooo, pick me! I know! I know!

Go ahead and say the names. I have a theory to test. 

[CosmicGnosis]

Well, I'm impressed with Vivienne's situation. As a mage, she is, by far, the most radical choice for Divine. And yet, she is the most conservative of the three. What a paradox. 

[TK514]

Well, what would you prefer me to call you/them? The haters? The out crowd? The Anti-Nugs?

I would think "other fans" would be sufficient. Last time I checked that was what the majority of the forum goers had in common.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Well, I'm impressed with Vivienne's situation. As a mage, she is, by far, the most radical choice for Divine. And yet, she is the most conservative of the three. What a paradox. 

 

That is what I like about it. Vivienne's election is not important for what she does, but what she symbolizes.

 

At the end of the day, the point of the Circle is to be a regulating body for magic/mages. It has done well enough at keeping corrupt users in check and maintaining order. Its shortcoming has been promoting the best and brightest it has to offer....

 

... enter Divine Vivtoria.

[The Baconer]

That is what I like about it. Vivienne's election is not important for what she does, but what she symbolizes.

 

Tevinter done right :>

 

That is also why I pick Vivienne.

[Gervaise]

The reason why any of the endings for the Divine can be viewed as leading to success is because of the organisation known as the Inquisition which is backing her.    If any of the Divines do not have a good relationship with the Inquisitor (or you didn't do their personal quest - Leliana) then the result is chaos and failure.  

 

This also holds true for other options.   It seems unbelievable that you could effectively put an elf on the throne of Orlais.  This only works if you have a high standing after the ball and works best if you are an elven Inquisitor.      If you keep Celene on the throne everyone knows she only keeps it because of the backing of the Inquisition.  

 

So it is not so much how believable a scenario is but how lasting it will be once the Inquisitor is dead or no longer influencing events.   However, once you have implemented change it is very difficult to go back to the way things were, particularly if the changes you make are generally popular.     If Leliana can keep her changes in place through at least once generation of believers, people will start growing up not knowing anything different and therefore not likely wanting to return to what went before.

[Incantrix]

What do you guys think about...

 

-Mages conscripted+Hardend Leliana divine? (++ if you're a mage inquisitor)

 

I think that's actually a fantastic ending. Basically, The bright-hand mages are a formed branch under the inquisition that promotes the best and brightest mages while Leliana makes reforms throughout the chantry thus releasing all mages who (assumingly) would flock to the inquisition for education. As inquisitor, you've essentially brought all mages under thumb and protection of the Inquisition. 

 

It's kind of like Leliana's ending, except better. With the Inquisition backing the "Bright-Hand", they have protection and at the same time they have someone to look to for guidance without the non-sense of the Chantry. All the while, they can always leave since they aren't necessarily bound to the inquisition (but the benefits outway the little to no negatives)  It's a win-win situation, really

[Sports72Xtrm]

I see her disbanding the Circles as a possible good thing. The Circle system is so divisive, you have the mages that like it and want impressment of all mages into the institution, and mages that think it's a prison using the pretext of safety and stability and a means to exploit and control mages with abuse of tranquility and such. The Inquisition used to be a coalition of mages and templars hunting maleficarum and demons, how is it that they weren't divided until the Circles? It's not like mages can't find other forms of training either, the Avvar have their ways, the Mages' Collective, even the Chantry and Inquisition may still employ mages. Will there be malcontents with change, sure but maybe the Inquisition should do it's job and protect the mages. If not the Inquisition, maybe some other vigilante group.

[Catche Jagger]

What do you guys think about...

-Mages conscripted+Hardend Leliana divine? (++ if you're a mage inquisitor)

I think that's actually a fantastic ending. Basically, The bright-hand mages are a formed branch under the inquisition that promotes the best and brightest mages while Leliana makes reforms throughout the chantry thus releasing all mages who (assumingly) would flock to the inquisition for education. As inquisitor, you've essentially brought all mages under thumb and protection of the Inquisition.

It's kind of like Leliana's ending, except better. With the Inquisition backing the "Bright-Hand", they have protection and at the same time they have someone to look to for guidance without the non-sense of the Chantry. All the while, they can always leave since they aren't necessarily bound to the inquisition (but the benefits outway the little to no negatives) It's a win-win situation, really

I personally prefer conscripting the mages to allying with them. The Bright Hand can be formed under both Leliana and Cassandra and I like it more than the options of creating the College of Enchanters and just sending the Mages back to the Circle

[d-boy15]

I wrote the OP because more people complain about Leliana's epilogue than about Cassandra's and Vivienne's. I wanted to argue that it doesn't break the lore.

It's interesting how annoyed some people are about this. Did I touch a nerve?

Pretty sure I saw you around back in ME3 days... I think you know why.

[CosmicGnosis]

Pretty sure I saw you around back in ME3 days... I think you know why.

Definitely, I've been around for a while. It's very likely that you saw my ending-related threads. I tend to favor Synthesis, which has led to much conflict, to say the least.

[SgtSteel91]

What do you guys think about...

 

-Mages conscripted+Hardend Leliana divine? (++ if you're a mage inquisitor)

 

I think that's actually a fantastic ending. Basically, The bright-hand mages are a formed branch under the inquisition that promotes the best and brightest mages while Leliana makes reforms throughout the chantry thus releasing all mages who (assumingly) would flock to the inquisition for education. As inquisitor, you've essentially brought all mages under thumb and protection of the Inquisition. 

 

It's kind of like Leliana's ending, except better. With the Inquisition backing the "Bright-Hand", they have protection and at the same time they have someone to look to for guidance without the non-sense of the Chantry. All the while, they can always leave since they aren't necessarily bound to the inquisition (but the benefits outway the little to no negatives)  It's a win-win situation, really

 

How is this different to the Mages being allies, with the Inquisition promising protection as equal partners, and going off to start the College of Enchanters? What you describe sounds the same as this.

[Storvacker]

But why do these Lelianites feel such a desperate need to justify their preference for her ending, though? There's a new thread "in defense of Leliana" at least twice a week... like anyone cares what you do in your own game. Like all this preaching about how perfect Leliana and her ending are is going to change the minds of people who don't want her to be Divine in their own games.

 

Can you just not choose your Divine and be happy with her and not bother justifying your choice? Seriously... no one cares. It's your game, make Schmooples II the new Divine if you want.

These people aren't saying that Leliana's ending is necessarily the best, they are defending against the countless people who, to the contrary, DO care and claim that Leliana's ending is unrealistic and "Sue"ish, invalidating what happens in someone else's game.

 

I think it's important to remember that the epilogue says "for now". Leliana's other, seemingly more realistic, epilogues don't say this, so IMO it implies that things won't stay that way for very long.

[BountyhunterGER]

*opens door*

*looks inside*

I always end up with the softened Leliana ending and I like it..

*closes door*

*runs away*

[Catche Jagger]

These people aren't saying that Leliana's ending is necessarily the best, they are defending against the countless people who, to the contrary, DO care and claim that Leliana's ending is unrealistic and "Sue"ish, invalidating what happens in someone else's game.

I think it's important to remember that the epilogue says "for now". Leliana's other, seemingly more realistic, epilogues don't say this, so IMO it implies that things won't stay that way for very long.

Um... The other Divines get a lot of flak too. Softened Leliana's ending appears to be the one with the most threads devoted solely to defending that choice. Such an intense defense inevitably leads to (somewhat justified, in my mind) claims that her supporters are either trying to push their choice on others to a greater degree than supporters of the other choices, or that they are simply acting very insecure.

[Xilizhra]

Um... The other Divines get a lot of flak too. Softened Leliana's ending appears to be the one with the most threads devoted solely to defending that choice. Such an intense defense inevitably leads to (somewhat justified, in my mind) claims that her supporters are either trying to push their choice on others to a greater degree than supporters of the other choices, or that they are simply acting very insecure.

I disagree. I've never seen anyone attack Cassandra's or Vivienne's endings for being unrealistic, and attacking something in a video game as unrealistic is just a hairsbreadth away from saying it shouldn't have been in the game (or saying that it won't or shouldn't lead to lasting results). The hostility towards Leliana's ending is much stronger and harsher than it is toward any other ending.

[Shechinah]

Can we please stick to discussing the topic and not the people who discuss the topic? Otherwise, it is a derailment waiting to happen.

[Incantrix]

How is this different to the Mages being allies, with the Inquisition promising protection as equal partners, and going off to start the College of Enchanters? What you describe sounds the same as this.

Because it is not.

The college of enchanters is a completely separate entity from the inquisition, unlike the bright hand. The brighthand mages are literally your people.

The college has its own administration run by mages who have no idea how to run themselves and with zero Templar presense will ultimately end in ruin.

Say what you like about Templars, but when mages start getting possessed, you'll need them and at least the inquisition has its own band of Templars that didn't go red.

Between possession and lack or proper administration. The college is a terrible choice and will inevitably end in ruin. Unlike the bright hand. Furthermore, when things start going wrong (and they will) who will defend them? Not the chantry. Not the inquisition. No one.

If you truly value mages having a bright future, the bright hand is the only stable option.

[Xilizhra]

Because it is not.

The college of enchanters is a completely separate entity from the inquisition, unlike the bright hand. The brighthand mages are literally your people.

The college has its own administration run by mages who have no idea how to run themselves and with zero Templar presense will ultimately end in ruin.

Say what you like about Templars, but when mages start getting possessed, you'll need them and at least the inquisition has its own band of Templars that didn't go red.

Between possession and lack or proper administration. The college is a terrible choice and will inevitably end in ruin. Unlike the bright hand.

Will ultimately end in ruin? Did you somehow manage to steal Bioware's notes for the next game?

[Incantrix]

Will ultimately end in ruin? Did you somehow manage to steal Bioware's notes for the next game?

Of course not, but it's kind of common sense.

A college run by mages with no leadership ability and 0 Templars to save them in case of possession? That sounds awful.

There will be mediocre mages who cannot control their magic. Then what? Now you have dangerous mages running around villages and such who are prone to setting homes on fire because they are too weak to control themselves.

When the inevitable **** hits the fan, the college will have all eyes on them. They have no army and no back up since everyone washed their hands of them.

Then what?

[Xilizhra]

Of course not, but it's kind of common sense.

A college run by mages with no leadership ability and 0 Templars to save them in case of possession? That sounds awful.

There will be mediocre mages who cannot control their magic. Then what? Now you have dangerous mages running around villages and such who are prone to setting homes on fire because they are too weak to control themselves.

When the inevitable **** hits the fan, the college will have all eyes on them. They have no army and no back up since everyone washed their hands of them.

Then what?

Well, templars can't really save mages from possession; all they can do is kill them, which other mages can do too (and mage antimagic has been shown time and again to be as good as templar antimagic, in every game). There's also no evidence that none of the mages has any leadership ability, nor have we seen evidence of mages ever being too weak to keep spells from going off randomly.

 

In any case, the Inquisition will almost certainly provide military protection for the College.

[Incantrix]

Well, templars can't really save mages from possession; all they can do is kill them, which other mages can do too (and mage antimagic has been shown time and again to be as good as templar antimagic, in every game). There's also no evidence that none of the mages has any leadership ability, nor have we seen evidence of mages ever being too weak to keep spells from going off randomly.

In any case, the Inquisition will almost certainly provide military protection for the College.

Personally, I highly doubt the inquisition will stand up for a seprate entity that let things get out of control and now require a military to solve their issues.

If you want independence, you better be able to solve your own problems.
----
And for makers sake, half the mages in southern thedas followed fiona (who yet still lives...) who made terrible awful decisions. If that's the best they can do, then yes, I see ruin in their future.

Furthermore, it's already been shown time and time again what happens when mages either get irresponsible (Merrill/kirkwall?) or flat out can't control themselves (connor anyone?).

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I highly doubt the inquisition will stand up for a seprate entity that let things get out of control and now require a military to solve their issues.

If you want independence, you better be able to solve your own problems.
----
And for makers sake, half the mages in southern thedas followed fiona (who yet still lives...) who made terrible awful decisions. If that's the best they can do, then yes, I see ruin in their future.

Furthermore, it's already been shown time and time again what happens when mages either get irresponsible (Merrill/kirkwall?) or flat out can't control themselves (connor anyone?).

Merrill was betrayed, and Connor was poorly led. And given that the Inquisition was instrumental in helping set up the College to begin with, why wouldn't it continue to help?

 

In any case, I'm certain there won't be ruin, if for no other reason than that we've never had "ruin" stem from any other major choice in DA.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I actually like that ending the best tbh.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well, templars can't really save mages from possession; all they can do is kill them, which other mages can do too (and mage antimagic has been shown time and again to be as good as templar antimagic, in every game). There's also no evidence that none of the mages has any leadership ability, nor have we seen evidence of mages ever being too weak to keep spells from going off randomly.

 

In any case, the Inquisition will almost certainly provide military protection for the College.

 

Templars are trained and have abilities to fight mages and demons no one can match them in that in the setting sending mages to fight demons is like sending mushrooms to fight mario all you do is power up demons and allow them to create more abomnations.

 

It can end only on disaster because mages will have absolutly free feild on using blood magic so not only it will produce more abomnations but also more than ever people will become victims of mages rampages as well of abomnations. So inquisition for supporting mages in first place would get huge blow toward reputation for supporting mages freedom then would drop dead when mages start unleash their horrors on population.

 

Merrill was betrayed, and Connor was poorly led. And given that the Inquisition was instrumental in helping set up the College to begin with, why wouldn't it continue to help?

 

In any case, I'm certain there won't be ruin, if for no other reason than that we've never had "ruin" stem from any other major choice in DA.

Merril was fool unable to even comprehend that her actions can have consequences on everyone around and that was threat to everyone around and she proved that she is while connor made deal with demon to save his father so well good luck then i can point more if you wish.