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[Andromelek]

After ending Jaws of Hakkon DLC, I've got some new theories about the gods, lets talk first about the Old Gods
My theory about the Old Gods is that they are the Great Dragons mentioned in the comics, why did I think on this theory? Mostly because of Yavana and Sten; In DAO Sten said that the Qunari believes that the archdemons were for dragons what kings are for the mankind, later Yavana says that she has the Queen of Dragons, who was awoken by Maric's blood, irrelevant at first but DAI taught us two thing, 1st there is evidence of an eighth Old God, 2nd in Jaws of Hakkon is revealed that Razikale is a female Thoughts: The seven known Old Gods were sealed within different prisons, the eighth one was the Great Dragon killed by Calenhad and the Silent Grove is Razikale's prison the fact that Flemeth set one of her daughters as Guardian of the Grove and that she has a ritual to save the Old God's soul implies that Mythal is trying to aid the Old Gods, which led me to the next point.

The Forgotten Ones are the bad guys of bad guys, there is more and more evidence that the Golden City never truly existed and what is known as the Black City was evil and corrupted all alone, furthermore, the elven word for the place where the Blight comes from is benalhan, which means "place of nothing" we also know that the Forgotten Ones inhabit a place called the Void that really sounds like place of nothing, and the Blights started because of Corypheus and pals, who entered in the Black City, that doesn't means that the Maker doesn't exists, it would rather mean that the Maker is a Forgotten One, remember that Flemeth said that the world was betrayed? Well, the Chantry has spent centuries killing elves, dragons, heretics and mages, in the name of the Maker, in Jaws of Hakkon there Is a codex entry wrote by Geldauran, one of the Forgotten Ones, he claims that there are no real Gods, only beings with the Will to rule over the others, he also seems to despie the Creators and consider them as weak and proud fools, finally he says that he will rise on power, we also know that Anaris, another Forgotten One still free and hunting the Dread Wolf for betraying his brothers, either Geldauran or Anaris could fed the idea of an all powerful god, and the Chantry whipped out of screen any possible rival for them.

Well, this are my theories, what do you think? Are the Old Gods and the Great Dragons different subjects?

[xPez]

There is a codex entry about ancient elves somewhere saying that an elf was punished by the gods for daring to transform into a dragon, a form only allowed by the gods. Along with most of Tevinter customs being built/based on ancient elfish ones, it kinda makes me think that the Old Gods are actually the Forgotten Ones, locked away by the Dread Wolf. Combining that with the post-credits scene where if the OGB is canon we see Flemeth/Mythal putting what looks like the Old God soul into an Eluvian, I think they are definitely related somehow.

 

Saying that, I don't think there is much evidence for Forgotten Ones = Old Gods, but I do think the Old Gods are something Elfish.

 

Could the Black City be Arlathan?

 

On a related note, there was a piece of concept art released before DA:I that was supposed to be Arlathan, but as we know it didn't appear in the game. Is the concept art actually of the temple of Mythal, or was Arlathan cut?

[leaguer of one]

Let's not forget what Hakkon is. He too is a god dragon. The old gods may be just powerful dragons merged with a very powerful spirit.

[Big I]

My theory:

 

Lyrium is the body of something called the Titans. The Titans made the dwarves, and then there was a war between the Titans and the dwarves, and the elven gods and the elves. The elves won, and killed or made comatose the Titans.

 

 

The Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, i.e elven gods. They were imprisoned beneath the earth by the reigning gods, Elgarnan etc. When Solas took out them out, the imprisoned ones (Dumat etc) reached out to the first magisters via dreams.

 

 

It was the elven gods that created the Blight, looking for a way to achieve ultimate magical power. They created the Veil to trap the Blight in the Black City and away from the world. The side effect of the Veil was that most elves lost the ability to do magic, before the Veil they all could. That meant the end of elven immortality, the immortality was a by product of an entire civilisation of elves using magic all the time. This began the decline of the elven civilisation.

 

 

Elvehnan was a tyrannical magocracy/theocracy, like Tevinter on steroids. The gods who ruled it were all crazy pricks (oceans of blood, etc). Solas hated that, so he defeated the gods and left the elves to rule themselves, and then went to sleep/uthenara. The elves fought amongst themselves, and then were finished off by a rising Tevinter that was taught blood magic by the Old Gods.

 

 

The qunari are a magical experiment, made by either Ghilanain or elven mages, in an effort to cross elves with dragons.

 

 

This is based on:

-things Solas says

-things Dagna says

-things Kieran says

-things Iron Bull says

-things Abelas says

-things you find out from Temple of Mythal codex entries if you drank from the Well.

[Andromelek]

Let's not forget what Hakkon is. He too is a god dragon. The old gods may be just powerful dragons merged with a very powerful spirit.

That would have sense too, Morrigan said that the corruption left by the demons was almost identical to the corruption left by the darkspawn.

[Precursor Meta]

My theory

 

Gods aren't actual Gods but rather very powerful beings.

 

The word "Gods" gets passed around in this series so much, its beginning to lose its muster...

[Bad King]

The Old Gods match the Creators relatively well in terms of the concepts they represent. I personally like the theory that the Old Gods were pets of the Creators. They, like some of the Creators, are linked to blood magic which is the antithesis of the taint which is likely connected to the Forgotten Ones. Maybe the Calling is in fact the Forgotten Ones attempting to guide the darkspawn to their enemies in order to corrupt them?

[Bad King]

The Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, i.e elven gods. They were imprisoned beneath the earth by the reigning gods, Elgarnan etc. When Solas took out them out, the imprisoned ones (Dumat etc) reached out to the first magisters via dreams.

 

The problem here is that the Forgotten Ones are said to be creatures of blight who dwell in the void whereas the Old Gods are victims of blight. Andruil went to the void to hunt them and came back crazed due to her new void (red lyrium?) armour. It seems more likely to me that the Forgotten Ones are linked to the Primeval Thaig in some way (in which we find evidence of tainted lyrium that pre-dates the Magisters' journey to the Golden City).

[Andromelek]

The problem here is that the Forgotten Ones are said to be creatures of blight who dwell in the void whereas the Old Gods are victims of blight. Andruil went to the void to hunt them and came back crazed due to her new void (red lyrium?) armour. It seems more likely to me that the Forgotten Ones are linked to the Primeval Thaig in some way (in which we find evidence of tainted lyrium that pre-dates the Magisters' journey to the Golden City).

It's also said that the Rock Wraiths fell that they were abandoned. they doesn't seem to be dwarves,I think that actually they are the lyrium (kinda warrior form of it) so, did the Rock Wraiths worshiped the Forgotten Ones and they granted them the Red Lyrium? (Note that it seems to be good for them, the Ancient Rock Wraith clearly had Red Lyrium and that made him completly inmune to the demons)

[Bunny]

According to the codex on the profane:

 

We who are forgotten, remember,

We clawed at rock until our fingers bled,

We cried out for justice, but were unheard.

Our children wept in hunger,

And so we feasted upon the gods.

Here we wait, in aeons of silence.

We few, we profane.

 

The Primeval Thaig predates the blight but has red lyrium, which is lyrium infected by the blight. The Black City is the source of the taint. The Forgotten Ones are said to be creatures of blight who dwell in the void. Is there a connection with the Anvil of the Void? It allowed dwarves to make golems. Were they trying to create and control rock wraiths? 

[Aren]

The nature of the Gods

Story after Story,legend after legend,lie after lie and you will have the true "nature" of your gods.

The Gods are made by peoples, Chuck Norris is not a god however he is worshipped as such.

[Bad King]

The Primeval Thaig predates the blight but has red lyrium, which is lyrium infected by the blight. The Black City is the source of the taint. The Forgotten Ones are said to be creatures of blight who dwell in the void. Is there a connection with the Anvil of the Void? It allowed dwarves to make golems. Were they trying to create and control rock wraiths? 

 

 

The Anvil of the Void utilises a form of blood magic, and in my view blood magic is the antithesis of the taint (it's how Morrigan purifies Urthemiel's soul and how Merrill cleanses her tainted shard of eluvian) so I'd be inclined to think that it isn't linked to the Void of elven religion (which I believe is tainted).

[leaguer of one]

The nature of the Gods

Story after Story,legend after legend,lie after lie and you will have the true "nature" of your gods.

The Gods are made by peoples, Chuck Norris is not a god however he is worshipped as such.

 

100% off topic but Awesome..

Spoiler

[X Equestris]

My theory
 
Gods aren't actual Gods but rather very powerful beings.
 
The word "Gods" gets passed around in this series so much, its beginning to lose its muster...

I think we can safely say that much. We won't ever know anything about the Maker, but the rest of the "gods" are likely just powerful beings.

[Medhia_Nox]

Sad thing is - they don't even seem to be D&D Deity power... the D&D deities can be killed by mortals, but they're maddeningly powerful.

 

And so far Solas has managed to - what?  Lose an orb and almost destroy Thedas?  Nice... loser. 

 

And mad old lady Flemeth is too busy speaking in obtuse riddles to seem anything but starved for attention.  I liked her better when she was just "creepy" witch. 

[MisterMonkeyBanana]

I'm starting to think the Creators and the Forgotten Ones are likely the same kind of ascended elf/elf god/dreamer/thing.

 

My reasons being:

 

- The Forgotten Ones are meant to be gods of terror, spite and disease, whilst the Creators held dominion over concepts such as justice and crafts. Despite this the Temple of Mythal shows that the Creators themselves inflicted disease and terror on the world, making the boundaries... blurry, they seem ideologically opposed to the Creators, but not necessarily the evil pantheon.

 

-  Geldauran's codex entry says he could have became a Creator but rejected it, taking another path instead. Sounds more like the Closed Fist to the Creators Open Palm.

 

- The Dread Wolf could walk freely among both camps and Solas' comment about how Fen'Harel being "forgotten" seems a little too on the nose for me. Maybe he was the bridge between the groups?

 

This isn't to say the Forgotten Ones aren't related to the Blight. More that they either went to the void and discovered/utilized it, or crafted it themselves.

 

My best guess: The Creators ruled and the Forgotten Ones hid and waited to throw their rivals down, Fen'Harel was playing both sides. He destroyed the Creators regime but also tricked the Forgotten Ones at the same time. Thus 'freeing' the people from their tyrants.

 

I'm less inclined to think the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones or the Creators. The codex entry Old Elven Writing comments that the elves planned to hunt the "Pillars of the Earth" who are surrounded by their soulless minions. This all sounds suspiciously like the darkspawn and if this is the case it seems odd that the codex entry doesn't at least hint that they are the same thing. However we don't know when the entry was written (probably after the fall of Arlathan).

[Nimrodell]

It all seems more like a sort of a civil war between ancient beings after DA:I vanilla combined with Jaws of Hakkon later codex entries. After DA and DA 2, one could already assume that the same entities through different ways of metempsychosis were actually continuing the ancient strife for beliefs and power - DA:I vanilla went just further down that path and Jaws of Hakkon brought even more assumptions in that direction.

Spoiler

The script is an ancient elven dialect. Upon further observation, it twists, the words becoming visible:

There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

 I like the path BW writers chose - the one of different perspectives on the same things - the truth is not simple or one or the same. I'm not sure that there are the 'good' or the 'bad' guys here, it's not even the question of morality yet... Once upon a time there was a great ideological strife between powerful entities it seems. They themselves weren't sure or knowledgeable on their own origins or how things should be ordered and they fought. Perhaps, there was and is a Maker or some higher entity, but just like Eru in Tolkien's world, s/he's is the one with the inception, a vague concept, but that's about it... the rest are just sources, different perspectives on something that just simply can't be understood or perceived as the Truth.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the Forgotten Ones were fighters just for a different perspective on things or even for the freedom of choice. No matter what Solas seems at the end - perhaps Dalish elves saw bits of truth through their distorted image of him - Fen'Harrel, the betrayer, the one who walked freely between both factions - perhaps, he indeed believed in bits of what both factions claimed - thus paying the price to his idealism. 

[BioWareM0d13]

I wonder if the Maker might be the 8th Old God.

 

One of the first things Ameridan asks is whether the Chant of Light has spread to the four corners of the world. He seems to be a devout Andrastian, yet later he also makes comments that imply a belief in the Creators. This raises the question of whether the earliest Andrastians might have been polytheists. Maybe the Maker was only one god (or the chief god) of a pantheon, who later got promoted to sole deity. The Maker being an old god might explain how the Andrastian cult was able to take hold in Tevinter as well. What if the Maker was already one of the Tevinter gods?

[MarcoNeves]

It all seems more like a sort of a civil war between ancient beings after DA:I vanilla combined with Jaws of Hakkon later codex entries. After DA and DA 2, one could already assume that the same entities through different ways of metempsychosis were actually continuing the ancient strife for beliefs and power - DA:I vanilla went just further down that path and Jaws of Hakkon brought even more assumptions in that direction.

Spoiler

The script is an ancient elven dialect. Upon further observation, it twists, the words becoming visible:
There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.
I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

 I like the path BW writers chose - the one of different perspectives on the same things - the truth is not simple or one or the same. I'm not sure that there are the 'good' or the 'bad' guys here, it's not even the question of morality yet... Once upon a time there was a great ideological strife between powerful entities it seems. They themselves weren't sure or knowledgeable on their own origins or how things should be ordered and they fought. Perhaps, there was and is a Maker or some higher entity, but just like Eru in Tolkien's world, s/he's is the one with the inception, a vague concept, but that's about it... the rest are just sources, different perspectives on something that just simply can't be understood or perceived as the Truth.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the Forgotten Ones were fighters just for a different perspective on things or even for the freedom of choice. No matter what Solas seems at the end - perhaps Dalish elves saw bits of truth through their distorted image of him - Fen'Harrel, the betrayer, the one who walked freely between both factions - perhaps, he indeed believed in bits of what both factions claimed - thus paying the price to his idealism.

Brilliant!

[Aisabel]

I read the first two Dragon Age books and they go on to mention that the whole crowd of Darkspawn wander around underground listening for Dragons which are Ancient Elven Gods trapped in a prison underground for trying to enter the City and these Darkspawn make mining camps to release these Gods and then we get the blights. I like to believe they're either just dragons or they're elven witches much like Flemyth and people mistaken their weird powers for them as being Gods. After the whole Corypheus thing, I'm starting to think their gods don't even exist and are nothing but stories.

[myahele]

Actually, Hakkon is not a dragon god. He was just a spirit (of valor) who was forcibly bound to a dragon, thus twisting it into more like a demon (like solas' friend) at least that's what outside POV seems to be.

 

But still, I do think that it does give us some precedence as to the lives of the Ancients and how gods came to be.

 

Excluding who created the world, the Elvhen gods do seem to be similar (if not advanced) to how the Avvars treated and revered their gods.

 

In fact I think we all can look at everything that we've learned and try to narrow down the "true nature of gods":

1. A spirit can make itself be real: Cole

2. Spirits can merge with those willing to take it: Anders....whatever Flemeth was

3. Spirits can reside in Dragons

I'm using the term "spirits" as just a catchall for all Fade residents

[Quill74Pen]

Pfft. I bet the Leviathans are somehow involved in this mess. I mean, why stop with the Reapers? 

[SwobyJ]

My theory

 

Gods aren't actual Gods but rather very powerful beings.

 

The word "Gods" gets passed around in this series so much, its beginning to lose its muster...

 

Good. The world needs more of that attitude.

[Bunny]

[Aren]

Dragon age deities (especially the archdemons , old gods and Mythal) are all a bunch of losers who deserve their bitter end, i will never save one of them

(Solas not you great rebel)  even at the cost of a cockroach