52 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

But that illustrates the problem with the argument. Bethsoft was able to sell Hearthfire even with a toolset. Unless it didn't sell well on PC?

OTOH, the benefit to EA from releasing a toolset is nebulous.

[In Exile]

Heh. Heheh. That's what I would have said as a PR rep too. And added that of course, we would LOVE to offer our customers additional options but that at the moment, we unfortunately see no clear path forward.

Folks, that's a purely political decision. However they may attempt to 'sell' it, EA is never going to release a toolkit that could potentially harm their development model which relies on DLCs with a short-term impact on their bottom line. Longevity, good will and customer satisfaction are just fluff.

Bioware is no longer the Bioware from DA:O times; they might have been able to convince EA to not use Frostbite in the first place, but once that decision was taken, they now have to follow EA to the bitter end.

This isn't a PR thing. It's reality. An "engine" is a loosely associated set of programming tools a lot of which is proprietary middleware. You strip out what you've licenced and you get a hot mess of garbage, so Bioware has to reinvent the wheel for tools they'd never need to create for themselves. And that's ignoring their possibility that they'd have to polish their tools to go from game developer friendly to public consumption friendly.

Companies that release mod tools are working primarily within their own engine and they're releasing a pared down version.

[In Exile]

But that illustrates the problem with the argument. Bethsoft was able to sell Hearthfire even with a toolset. Unless it didn't sell well on PC?

OTOH, the benefit to EA from releasing a toolset is nebulous.

That's the thing. Right now with consoles making the bulk of sales and with the PC fan base more so than the console fan base being very vocal about being catered too, mods are a win on word of mouth alone.

Just look at CDPR - a company that has reworked its game from the ground up to be console friendly and cater to the same audience as EA has accrued an excellent reputation through masterful PR and the appropriate peace offerings/efforts on behalf of PC users.

[SACanuckin Oz]

On the other hand, FromSoftware released Dark Souls, and follow up games to PC following a huge campaign by PC'ers including a large signed petition.

 

Perhaps that is the way for the PC playing community to pursue?

[Doctorkepler]

On the other hand, FromSoftware released Dark Souls, and follow up games to PC following a huge campaign by PC'ers including a large signed petition.

 

Perhaps that is the way for the PC playing community to pursue?

 

Its a nice thought but EA will never allow it.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Frostbite engine belongs to DICE, not Bioware. Bioware has no auhority to give it away. And DICE has expressed that they have no plans to.

 

To which I say good for them. 

[AlanC9]

Well, Terodil's right that this is all internal EA stuff, since both DICE and Bio are wholly owned by EA. Though disputes and different goals between branches of a corporation are a real thing. I've lived through a few of those in my time.

[Realmzmaster]

I sure that some posters remember the game Rage by id Software. It took a year for id to release a toolkit for Rage and id was using the engine id developed! The toolkit was still not consumer friendly. id even warned modders that only the brave or foolhardy need to apply. The toolkit's size is 35GB.  It took a year to get all the tools into one package and remove any middleware.

 

Creating a toolkit that for a game that uses middleware means ripping out anything that uses that middleware and making workarounds. The costs simply outweigh the benefits.

 

Selling dlc has nothing to do with it. Bethesda sells dlc and has a creation kit. Their dlc still sells. 

[Eelectrica]

This isn't a PR thing. It's reality. An "engine" is a loosely associated set of programming tools a lot of which is proprietary middleware. You strip out what you've licenced and you get a hot mess of garbage, so Bioware has to reinvent the wheel for tools they'd never need to create for themselves. And that's ignoring their possibility that they'd have to polish their tools to go from game developer friendly to public consumption friendly.

Companies that release mod tools are working primarily within their own engine and they're releasing a pared down version.

This.
Graphic engines have become somewhat more complex than the days of Doom where people were able to create their own map building tools.
Toolsets can increase DLC sales. A top quality mod requiring the most recent DLC means another potential DLC sale.

The reality is Dice developed the engine which gives them final say on what tools can be released. I believe BioWare have said if someone can find a way to mod the game they won't stand in the way.

[TaHol]

They could do it with DAO because Eclipse was their engine. They pretty much gave us developer-tools. No way can they do it with Frostbite. I understand that people have lots of wishful thinking going on with this but do give up, it won't happen in this reality and propably not in any parallel realitys either.

 

I don't know how much Skyrim's Hearthfire sold, but I quess enough even there was a home building mod available for free. I don't believe a moment that mods affect to DLC-sales. The mods that people seem to prefer are very different to DLC-content.

[DanteYoda]

I'm not sure you'd want the Frostbite engine anyway, it seems incredibly crap as game engines go.

[Arreyanne]

Never going to happen.

 

Until they decide to include a toolset like they did with DA:O I'm done with BioWare RPG's

 

DA:I should have been just as moddable as Skyrim is what a waste of a developers time DA:I

[Dread-Reaper]

I sure that some posters remember the game Rage by id Software. It took a year for id to release a toolkit for Rage and id was using the engine id developed! The toolkit was still not consumer friendly. id even warned modders that only the brave or foolhardy need to apply. The toolkit's size is 35GB.  It took a year to get all the tools into one package and remove any middleware.

 

Creating a toolkit that for a game that uses middleware means ripping out anything that uses that middleware and making workarounds. The costs simply outweigh the benefits.

 

Selling dlc has nothing to do with it. Bethesda sells dlc and has a creation kit. Their dlc still sells. 

Did anyone even make mods for RAGE? That game died down so quickly, I didn't even know there were requests for a toolkit.

 

As I and others have said, Frostbite belongs to DICE and DICE made the engine with consoles in mind and for it to be as least modular as they could make it. Bioware struggled to even release the damn game on a engine that wasn't built for RPGs, they are probably still learning how to use the engine themselves. So the chances of a toolkit is so low, it's not even worth asking for.

 

Bethesda games are made to be extremely modular, the fact that they used the Gamebryo Engine for Skyrim proves that point. The reason their DLC sells so well, even with mods is because they introduce a lot of new assest to the game with each DLC, in fact, if you plan on playing any Bethesda game you need to pretty much own all the DLC. For each DLC more mods begin to use assets from that DLC and some mods won't even work unless you have all the DLC, especially overhaul mods.  

[VickVeel]

Skyrim is a modders paradise, if you look how many downloads those mods get, it should be incentive enough for bioware to get on the modding train.

[DarkSun09]

I'm on pc, and for me, personally, the inability to use mods with the current patches is what is keeping me from buying the new DLC. If it's a choice between my many mods and the DLC, the mods win. Unless modders find a way to work with the current patches, or Bioware releases a toolset and make this whole process easier for everyone, they don't have my business as far as DLC is concerned. That's my two cents.

[Lux]

One can only dream. I hope something can be done about this in the next iteration. Ingenious modders proved it is possible.

[Fast Jimmy]

on Reddit they said they were looking into a way to make it mod friendly. In its current incarnation it's not

There's a world of difference between being mod friendly and having a toolkit.

[Kantr]

There's a world of difference between being mod friendly and having a toolkit.

People are creating mods without one

[Fast Jimmy]

People are creating mods without one

I'm aware. And they are doing so in a relatively unsupported manner.

I'm just saying Bioware can take steps to support modding and still not do anything in regards to a toolset. They aren't the same things. A toolkit is an effort to assist modders. But assisting modders doesn't equate a toolkit.

[Sartoz]

Nope. They didn't for DA2 and they wont for DA:I. Can you imagine if they did though? Think of how much cool story content and unique armor and weapons fans could add to the game also hairstyles.

Cool? yes. But it would diminish interest in multiplayer and its micro$transactions.  Something EA demands with MP games.

[Kantr]

Cool? yes. But it would diminish interest in multiplayer and its micro$transactions.  Something EA demands with MP games.

Except mods affecting multiplayer are hacks.

[Terodil]

Except mods affecting multiplayer are hacks.

If by "hack" you mean changes meant to give the "hacking" player an unfair advantage, no, not necessarily.

[Kantr]

If by "hack" you mean changes meant to give the "hacking" player an unfair advantage, no, not necessarily.

I suppose there are mods that dont give advantages.

[DanteYoda]

I suppose there are mods that dont give advantages.

Yes there are generally visual tweaks

[Sartoz]

Except mods affecting multiplayer are hacks.

Mods, in DAI at least, won't affect MP. Denuvo is designed to ensure the integrity of MP play by a) keeping an eye on certain memory locations containing stat values or constantly refreshing the stats variables from an EA server.

 

If you are referring to mods as from Nexusmods then I agree that those "mods" aren't such.