108 réponses à ce sujet

[Spellbound7]

 
inb4, “this is pointless, EAWare will never do this,” I'm perfectly aware of this. I did it for fun.
 

 

I was disappointed in the combat in Inquisition. Much of what made it enjoyable in the previous franchises had been discarded for dull, uninspired combat with little to no complexity. I initially made mock skill trees for Mages only, but I wanted to address the combat system as a whole, and so I tackled the Warrior and Rogue trees as well. So far, only 1 specialisation has been modified.

 

Interested in making your own? Here's a Photoshop template.

 

tl;dr: Skill trees are at the bottom of the post. Tell me what you think, and feel free to offer suggestions!

Base health is tripled. While I suppose it's realistic to die in a few hits, gameplay wise, it's a bit of a hassle. Your health should be able to sustain you in a fight, therefore should be increased.
Deeper resource pools. While small amounts of maximum mana is a viable in a more fast-paced game (like the Wizard in Diablo III), a tactics game would benefit more from being able to decide what to cast when. Deeper mana/stamina pools also opens the possibility of resource-trading, something I propose in this overhaul.
Out of Combat regeneration. Since healing spells are back, you gradually regenerate health and mana/stamina outside of combat.
More skill slots. This one goes without saying. 8 skill slots is ridiculously restrictive.
Guard overhaul. The current state of GUARD is such that certain warriors are practically immortal. My proposal is to instead make GUARD reduce damage taken by the percentage GUARD you have. A Warrior with 30% GUARD has 30% physical damage reduction (and maybe 15% magic damage reduction). At the end of combat, your remaining GUARD drains to restore the percentage of your maximum health. GUARD decays at 1% per second, and certain status effects can destroy it. Caps at 50%. GUARD is calculated after damage reduction from your normal armour rating.
Barrier nerf. Barrier spam is kinda overpowered. Cooldown on Barrier spell is increased, BARRIER status itself decays slower but absorbs less damage.
Attribute Points. Gain 5 attribute points on level up that you can distribute freely.
Health Potion overhaul. Unlimited health potions, or double the amount that can be carried (If not unlimited, may be used to restore Fatigue. See below). Potions are now on a 60 second cooldown after being used per character. Potions heal by rapidly regenerating health over 10 seconds instead of giving health instantly.
Fatigue. New system. Some people seem to enjoy the idea of attrition, so fatigue for me is the answer. You start with 100% fatigue that slowly decays as you lose health and use abilities. The more fatigue you lose, the less effective you are – your overall damage-dealing capabilities go down as well as your stamina and mana regeneration rates. At 0% fatigue, you deal 40% less damage and regenerate resource at half it's original rate. Restore fatigue by resting at camps or forts, or going back to Skyhold/Haven or visiting Val Royeaux. Drinking Health Potions will restore some fatigue, but that would require it to be limited to a fixed amount. Therefore, the above mentioned Health Potion Overhaul cannot be unlimited if this particularly fatigue-restoration mechanic is used. Additionally, there may be a perk that causes your Fatigue to drain more slowly.
Weapon change. Can dual-wield one-handed weapons, but will receive a damage penalty on the off-hand weapon, unless it's a dagger or the appropriate talents are learned. Dual-wielding daggers confers no penalty, but dual-daggers have faster attack speed and critical chance than a dagger-and-other-one-handed-weapon setup. Bows will miss 33% of the time, and you cannot move and fire simultaneously, unless Basic Archery is learned.

Crossbows. Crossbows are basically stronger bows with slower rate of fire but higher damage and armour penetration.
Vambraces and Bucklers. Rogues now have access to the Weapon and Shield tree, but still cannot use Shields. Instead, they use Vambraces and Bucklers. Vambraces and Bucklers do not offer as much protection as a Shield, so to make them appealing for Rogues as well as non-Rogues, Shields now slow down its wielder's attack speed by 20%. It's all about sacrificing damage for defense. Vambraces and Bucklers are not class-restricted. However, to maintain a Rogues's ability to dish out punishment, they do not gain GUARD on block (or with skills that generate GUARD, like Battering Ram) but instead retaliate with a normal attack.
Lyrium Gauntlets and Grimoires. New Mage weapons - Lyrium Gauntlets (and Greaves) are melee weapons that turns the Mage into a Monk-type character. They are considered as Weapon & Shield (and as such benefit from Shield Mastery) with the effectiveness of Vambraces/Bucklers. Grimoires, on the other hand, are ranged weapon with a strong base attack, but short attack cycle and slower attack speed than the Staff.

Specialisation-Specific Equipments. Each specialisation has it's own unique equipment. Some are compulsory for the you to make use of specialisation abilites, while some merely enhance the specialisation abilities. Here's a list of all specialisation items:

 

WARRIOR

• Vanquisher: the Vanquisher uses the Battle Standard. It reduces the upkeep of Battle-Born and increases the stamina regeneration of the entire party by 10%. The Battle Standard occupies the belt slot.
• Undying: the Undying uses the Dragonblood Vitaar. Unlike Qunari Vitaars, which are made from toxic plants, the Dragonblood Vitaar is a complex alchemical mixture with dragon blood as it's main ingredient. It increases the regeneration power of Immortal Blood and you gain more stamina per hit. The Dragonblood Vitaar occupies the helmet slot.
• Spirit Warrior: the Spirit Warrior uses the Spirit Talisman. It reduces the Fade Charge cost of Spirit Warrior abilities by 1. The Spirit Talisman occupies the amulet slot.

MAGE

• Fade Lord: the Fade Lord uses the Lyrium Halo. It increases your spellpower when Shining Soul is active. The Lyrium Halo occupies the helmet slot.
• Blood Mage: the Blood Mage uses the Sacrificial Dagger. It increases your spellpower when Blood Magic is active. The Sacrificial Dagger occupies the belt slot.
• Ritualist: the Ritualist uses the Ritualist's Garb. It is required for the Ritualist's spells to work. The Ritualist's Garb occupies the body slot.

ROGUE

• Ranger: the Ranger uses the Lucky Nug's Foot. It increases your pet's attack damage. The Lucky Nug's Foot occupies one of the ring slots.
• Jester: the Jester uses the Jester's mask. It is required for Mask of Madness to work, and increases your attack damage. The Jester's Mask occupies the helmet slot.
• Witch-Hunter: the Witch-Hunter uses the Lyrium Knife Set. It is required for Hunt the Apostate, Lyrium Knives and Flay to work. It also increases your attack damage. The Lyrium Knife Set occupies the belt slot.

No more weapon and armour restrictions... mostly. The skill tree redesigns are based on the idea that a mage can use a bow if he feels so inclined, and still be able to be specced in such a way as to still be effective in combat. That being said, Rogue cannot use two-handed swords or shields, and neither Rogues or Warriors can use Mage weapons.

Dodging. Warriors can roll out of the way, Rogues can jump away, and Mages can fadestep a few meters away. All dodging has a 10-seconds cooldown.
Cold magic 'realism'. Cold is an absence of heat. Therefore, ice spells are fueled by the heat they dissipate and cost no mana, but usually comes with relatively longer cooldowns. Cold spells also generate HEAT MANA. Check Status effects for details.

Primal Magic Overhaul. In an attempt to be more lore-friendly, I have completely changed how Primal magic is used. You have Forms that you can use (Single Target, AoE, Cone, etc), and these Forms can be modified with a certain element: Fire, Storm and Frost via toggleable Sustained spells. Only 1 can be active at a time, but these Sustained don't have any cost or upkeep or even cooldown. They merely act like switches. Each form has 2 casting charges, meaning you can use them twice and each cast has it's own cooldown. However, the charges occur only when you switch elements: if you cast Wave Form with fire, you can cast Wave Form again, but with either Storm or Frost.

PANICKED/FEARED: Runs around in panic. After 1.5 seconds, PANICKED breaks if creature takes damage, unless otherwise stated.
BLEEDING: Physical DoT - deals 1% of your maximum health per second. Stacks up to 5 times. Does not break PANICKED.
POISONNED: Physical DoT. Stacks up to 5 times. Does not break PANICKED.
BURNING: Magic DoT. Does not stack. Removes CHILLED and detonates FROZEN. Does not break PANICKED.
CHILLED: Applies 25% MOVE SLOW and ATTACK SLOW.
FROZEN: Full disable. Detonates on KNOCKDOWN or critical hits – remainder of FROZEN duration is replaced by CHILLED. Removes BURNING to apply SUNDERED. Breaks 5% GUARD.
WET: Applies after CHILLED wears off. Reduces lightning resistance by 20%. Is replaced with ELECTRIFIED after taking lightning damage.
DRENCHED: Applies after FROZEN wears off (except on detonation). Reduces lightning resistance by 30%. Is replaced with ELECTRIFIED after taking lightning damage.
PARALYSED/STUNNED: Full disable. Takes 10% more damage from all sources. Breaks 5% GUARD.
SUNDERED: Armour reduction. Breaks 5% GUARD.
ELECTRIFIED: Lightning DoT. Does not stack.

SHOCKED: 20% reduced Fire/Lightning/Ice resistance.
STAGGERED: Brief full disable. Usually moves target in a given direction. Breaks 5% GUARD
KNOCKDOWN: Full disable. Usually moves target in a given direction. Breaks 10% GUARD.
IMMOBILISED: Movement disable. Can still attack and use abilities that are not Displacement type.
MOVE SLOW: Movement speed reduction.
ATTACK SLOW: Attack speed reduction.

WEAKENED: 15% attack damage reduction.

SILENCED: Cannot cast spells.

FEEDBACK: Overrides SILENCED. When Mage tries to cast a spell, she is interrupted and takes damage equal to 25% of the spell's mana cost.
ENTROPIC CHARGE: 4% damage increase from all sourced per charge. Stacks up to 25. Charge lasts 4 seconds. When new ENTROPIC CHARGE is applied, charge decay timer is reset.
HEAT MANA: 2% magic damage increase per charge. Stacks up to 35. Lose 1 HEAT MANA charge every time a spell is cast. Charge lasts 8 seconds. When new HEAT MANA is applied, charge decay timer is reset. Spells with No Cost are unaffected. Sustained spell upkeep are unaffected.

Single Target: targets a single enemy or ally, or self.
Not Self: Cannot target self.
Personal: Affects the caster.
AoE: Circular area of effect. Modifiers include Cone AoE and Line AoE.
Point-Target: Point on the ground.
No Target: Affects an area around the caster.
Instant: Does not emit a projectile. Effect happens instantly at the place or on the target it was cast.
Projectile: Emits a projectile.
Beam: Mixture of Instant and Projectile. Visual indicator only. Technically Instant.
Close-Quarter: abilities that can only be cast in melee range, like Shield Bash.
Displacement: Moves the caster.
No Cost: does not cost any stamina or mana to cost. Usually have longer cooldowns.
No Upkeep: Sustained spells with No Upkeep do not tax your mana/stamina pool and/or regeneration. Usually comes with positives and negatives, or drains resource in some other way. (eg, drains mana on attack)
Glyph: Places down a circle or object that repeats an effect every set interval for it's duration. Eg: AoE PARALYSED every 2 seconds.

Trap: Places down a circle or object that causes an effect after a brief few seconds to prime.
Cast Time: Spell will only take effect after a brief timer has elapsed. Any action, unless otherwise stated, will interrupt Cast Time. Can also be interrupted with STAGGERED, KNOCKDOWN, PARALYSED, STUNNED, FROZEN, PANICKED and FEAR.
Channelled: Spell must be maintained for it's effect to endure. Any action, unless otherwise stated, will interrupt Channelled. Can also be interrupted with STAGGERED, KNOCKDOWN, PARALYSED, STUNNED, FROZEN, PANICKED and FEAR.
Passive: ability is always active at no cost.
Sustained: Toggle-able ability. While on, it will have an Upkeep of your maximum mana or stamina and/or mana/stamina regeneration rate.
 
 

(Click on the cards to view the skill trees - refresh to make purchase license prompt go away)

- All icons used are from DotA2 -

 

 

                                                           

                                                           

 

 

 

                                                         

 

 

 

_________________________________________

 

Thoughts?

[Abraham_uk]

My thoughts are: I love the options for the mage!

Now I can be a dual wielding fade stepping mage!

Thank you for taking the time to do this.

 

I am going to have a thorough look at what options the warrior and rogue have available.

If the mage can have 9 skill trees, so should the warrior and rogue.

 

 

If you want mage to have all 4 weapon skill trees, then I'd say it's only fair that warrior and rogue have access to all four.

Then give the warrior and rogue 5 unique skill trees. So no longer are classes defined by their weapon selection, but rather their non-weapon trees.

[Abraham_uk]

What do I have in mind?

 

Mage:

Spoiler

Exactly the same. The same 9 skill trees without any changes.

 

Weapon Trees: Same as you suggested.

Weapon & Shield

2 Hand

Dual Wield

Archery

 

Unique Trees: Same as you suggested.

Arcane

Creation

Entropy

Primal

Spirit

 

 

Rogue: 

Spoiler

I think it's only fair that if the mage has access to all 4, so do the rogues and warriors.

 

Weapon Trees: 
Dagger and Buckler: A faster version of weapon and shield that is less protective. 
Fencing: 1 handed fencing swords. This style is about balance, footwork, lunging, parrying and riposting.
Dual Wield: same as suggested.
Archery: same as suggested.

 

 

Unique Trees:

 

Dirty Fighting: Rogues love fighting dirty. This tree includes moves such as low blows, feigning death, stunning foes and disarming foes.

Sabotage: Same as you suggested.

Subtefuge: Same as you suggested.

Alchemy: Rogues are skilled at crafting special debilitating poisons to attach to weapons and crafting area of effect flasks to throw in combat.

Mechanics: This is for rogues who love crafting traps and explosives. Mechanics will also make the rogue proficient at disarming traps, explosives and lock picking.

 

 

Warrior: 

Spoiler

I think it's only fair that if the mage has access to all 4, so do the rogues and warriors.

 

Weapon Trees: Same as you suggested.
Weapon & Shield
2 Hand
Dual Wield
Archery

 

Unique Trees:

 

 

Vanguard: Same as you suggested.

Battlemaster: Same as you suggested.

Channeling: Much like the beserker specialisation, warriors will unleash their inner rage, using extra stamina to deal extra damage.

Endurance: The warrior can survive huge onslaughts, with better health and stamina management. They also gain better knock down and debuff resistance.

Finesse: Finesse is about footwork, dexterity, precise movements and critical hits. Unlike rogues warriors don't rely on stealth, so they have to be very quick on their feet should they engage foes head on.

 

I love how you have given mage more options but at the same time given some penalties to those who want to play a hybrid warrior/mage type character. The Arcane Warrior and the Knight Enchanter have been criticised for being overpowered. Your concept balances this out. However I do feel that your warriors and rogues could use a few more skill trees.

 

The above suggestions is just an idea on how to even things out.

People are going to be pretty resistant to the idea of the mage having access to all four, and it might be easier to get people on board if the weapons restrictions were ditched and all classes had the same number of unique skill trees.

[Spellbound7]

I thought long and hard about letting all classes use all weapons, however, take the Rogue - how would it benefit a rogue to wield a 2-handed weapon? Besides the increased crit chance, they don't really get much bang for their buck. Rogues follow the principle that they are glass cannons, and their survivability comes from avoiding damage altogether - encumbering weapons like greatswords and weapon-and-shield directly prevent them from doing so. It would make little sense to allow rogue to blink-backstab with a greatsword - not only is that kinda ridiculous, it would also be rather overpowered given the sheer damage a greatsword has. That being said, I would love to hear any workaround anyone may have.

 

One thing I'm thinking of doing is to separate the Sabotage tree into two different ones: Traps and Alchemy.

 

As for the warrior, I imagine there is no harm to give them access to the archery tree - they did have it originally... and I don't remember why i removed it? I mean, the archery skills would synergise well with the ranged attacks from Battlemaster.

 

I'll look at your suggestions closely. Expect an update soon

[Abraham_uk]

I thought long and hard about letting all classes use all weapons, however, take the Rogue - how would it benefit a rogue to wield a 2-handed weapon? Besides the increased crit chance, they don't really get much bang for their buck. Rogues follow the principle that they are glass cannons, and their survivability comes from avoiding damage altogether - encumbering weapons like greatswords and weapon-and-shield directly prevent them from doing so. It would make little sense to allow rogue to blink-backstab with a greatsword - not only is that kinda ridiculous, it would also be rather overpowered given the sheer damage a greatsword has. That being said, I would love to hear any workaround anyone may have.

 

One thing I'm thinking of doing is to separate the Sabotage tree into two different ones: Traps and Alchemy.

 

As for the warrior, I imagine there is no harm to give them access to the archery tree - they did have it originally... and I don't remember why i removed it? I mean, the archery skills would synergise well with the ranged attacks from Battlemaster.

 

I'll look at your suggestions closely. Expect an update soon

 

Okay. Perhaps instead of weapon and shield you could have dagger and buckler. Instead of 2 hand perhaps a fencing tree.

Check out my previous post on this thread.

[Spellbound7]

UPDATE

 

• Rogues now have access to Weapon and Shield tree
• Warriors now have access to Archery tree
• Vambraces and Bucklers added. They are the same thing, just different visuals.
• Sabotage (Rogue) has been renamed to Alchemy.
• Rogue Artificer specialisation has been relegated to a basic Rogue skill tree.
• New Rogue specialisation: Ranger.

[The Baconer]

Liking for DoTA 2 icons ayyyy.

 

 

But in all seriousness this is looking good; very comprehensive.

[Spellbound7]

Thanks

Expect more updates. Do you have any ideas as to new specialisations? I might just end up making trees for them.

 

And yes, DotA 2 icons rocks!

[eyezonlyii]

Before I begin, I want to say that this looks good as always. However, I'm actually a fan of some class restrictions from a gameplay/lore point, so here is what I would have done:

Taking another Bioware game as an example, in the first Mass Effect, the soldier class had access to and was proficient with all weapons. While every other class was more specialized with weapon choice. I would apply the same logic here, warriors get access to W+S, 2H, DW and Archery (includes crossbows) just like they did in Origins.

Rogues could have DW, Archery (includes crossbows), and 1h (includes bucklers)

Mages would have staves (a full weapon tree), and tomes.

 

The biggest issue I see is of course the sheer amount of options a mage has. There is almost no incentive to play anything else if as a mage you have access to all the weapons and talents on top of all of the spell trees too. 

 

I think about it like the racial class restriction. Everyone can be anything except for Dwarves which is a but unbalanced. I would drop one class per race (except humans being the jack of all trades) in exchange for the racial bonus. on top of that, each race/class combo would have a unique starting specialization already unlocked. This is assuming a human PC is from Tevinter:

Humans: Warrior (Champion), Rogue (Bard), Mage (Magister Adept)

Dwarves: Warrior (Beserker), Rogue (Legionnaire Scout)

Elf: Rogue (Stalker-mix of Shadow and Ranger) Mage (Arcane Keeper)

Qunari: Warrior (Shokrakar) Mage (Saarabas)

 

The saarabas tree would have bonuses to casting without a weapon because (as I've said a few times in a few places) Qunari don't seem to use staves, so I think it would fit with their depiction. 

[Vault_Tec101]

It looks quite good and it shows that you put a lot of work into it, well done.

 

I would like to make a suggestion if I may regarding the fatigue system. It sounds like a very good idea save for the part where I have to go back to a camp or 'safe house'. I find that the general spread of enemies, however many advantages it may bring, tends to break the exploration aspect by having me to stop every so often to fight instead of explore. Tack on the need to return to camp to replenish your health potions plus this new need to rest at a camp and I see myself having to return to camp so many times that it simply gets tedious. Perhaps you can wait some x time after combat to regain your composure or stamina.

 

Another thing I like is that a warrior is able to use a bow or two daggers, maybe even two swords. It always struck me as odd that someone versed in physical combat regarding swords and such weaponry is unable to use a bow. Maybe not be a marksman but surely you should be able to at the least use one.

[Duelist]

First of all, I can appreciate that you've obviously put a lot of effort into these.

 

Now my feedback on the Rogue trees:

• Using a Weapon And Shield may allow one to take more hits, it's superior offence and the ability to avoid taking damage entirely that make Rogues into dangerous combatants.
   
• The Archery tree looks like the one from DAO which was the worst time to be an archer. The current archery tree in Inquisition is already the best in the series.
   
• Alchemy is mostly fine except Serpent Strike. Weapon agnostic talents outside of the weapon trees are the way to go IMO.
   
• As with Archery, the Dual Wield tree looks ripped straight from DAO save for a few talents like Parry (a talent most useful for keeping the AI alive but somewhat dubious otherwise) and Unforgiving Chain (a talent with next to no value for any rogue at all).
  As it stands, Twin Fangs looks like a worse version of it's current iteration, there's no hard hitting single target attack like Deathblow or an attack that allows you to re-position like Flank Attack or DA2's Backstab and the sustained talents, Lacerate particularly, are of questionable value.
   
• The Artificer tree is missing the talents that made it one of the best specializations in the DAI: Hail of Arrows and Opportunity Knocks.
  Crossbow Sentry aside, the rest of the traps look to be useful only to those who like fights taking a lot longer than they need to.
   
• The Subterfuge tree is mostly fine although it does have one too many active talents for my liking. Back To Back and Decoy could be done without though.

IMO, as a result of opening up Dual Wielding and Archery to warriors and mages, Rogues lose a lot of the ability to deal heavy damage in a short amount of time.

 

My suggestions:

• Separate the DW and Archery trees into class specific ones. Rogues specialise in single target DPS and as it stands, the current trees do not allow for that.
  Rogues using double daggers but gaining hard hitting talents and passives that boost crit chance or flanking damage would be my preference while Warriors can use anything but get passives that buff their attack speed and crit chance.
   
• Drop the Weapon and Shield tree entirely. It's far too defensive to be of use to a rogue and simply not getting hit is far better than being able to take it.
   
• Make all talents outside of the weapon trees agnostic, i.e. usable with any weapon.
   
• While I appreciate giving the Artificer an actual theme, it's a severely neutered version of the current specialisation. Personally I would like to see it restricted to bows or crossbows with a focus on increasing rate of fire and crit chance to take advantage of Opportunity Knocks which already exists.

All in all I get the sense that you don't really play rogues much.

 

I could care less about mages having more options but to me, playing a rogue should be a case of high risk, high reward and your current take on the rogue trees means that playing a rogue carries the same risk sans the reward.

 

Just my two cents.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

This game is already a watery Skyrim enough without making it a class buffet too.

[Spellbound7]

Spoiler

Before I begin, I want to say that this looks good as always. However, I'm actually a fan of some class restrictions from a gameplay/lore point, so here is what I would have done:
Taking another Bioware game as an example, in the first Mass Effect, the soldier class had access to and was proficient with all weapons. While every other class was more specialized with weapon choice. I would apply the same logic here, warriors get access to W+S, 2H, DW and Archery (includes crossbows) just like they did in Origins.
Rogues could have DW, Archery (includes crossbows), and 1h (includes bucklers)
Mages would have staves (a full weapon tree), and tomes.
 
The biggest issue I see is of course the sheer amount of options a mage has. There is almost no incentive to play anything else if as a mage you have access to all the weapons and talents on top of all of the spell trees too. 
 
I think about it like the racial class restriction. Everyone can be anything except for Dwarves which is a but unbalanced. I would drop one class per race (except humans being the jack of all trades) in exchange for the racial bonus. on top of that, each race/class combo would have a unique starting specialization already unlocked. This is assuming a human PC is from Tevinter:
Humans: Warrior (Champion), Rogue (Bard), Mage (Magister Adept)
Dwarves: Warrior (Beserker), Rogue (Legionnaire Scout)
Elf: Rogue (Stalker-mix of Shadow and Ranger) Mage (Arcane Keeper)
Qunari: Warrior (Shokrakar) Mage (Saarabas)
 
The saarabas tree would have bonuses to casting without a weapon because (as I've said a few times in a few places) Qunari don't seem to use staves, so I think it would fit with their depiction.

 

The reason why every class can do everything (sorta) is that I dislike restrictions. If I want to go in combat with a greatsword on my Mage, why shouldn't I be able to do that? I imagine the most obvious reason would be that it's difficult to balance, and granted, maybe each class does need it's own version of weapon-masteries, but afaik, I like being able to use whatever on whatever. Option, y'know. I guess it boils down to a matter of preference.

 

Concerning the Saarebas, they may be able to cast spells without any tools, wouldn't wielding one make them stronger? You might be able to harm someone with your fists, having a knife would be more destructive. Besides, I don't think we have enough information on Saarebas to be able to tell whether they are better Mages than Circle/Tevinter Mages, which I strongly doubt they are.

 

If you are simply looking for hand-free spellcasting, I've added Lyrium Gauntlets to the list of new items for Mages. All hail Dragon Age Monks!

 

 

 

I would like to make a suggestion if I may regarding the fatigue system. It sounds like a very good idea save for the part where I have to go back to a camp or 'safe house'. I find that the general spread of enemies, however many advantages it may bring, tends to break the exploration aspect by having me to stop every so often to fight instead of explore. Tack on the need to return to camp to replenish your health potions plus this new need to rest at a camp and I see myself having to return to camp so many times that it simply gets tedious. Perhaps you can wait some x time after combat to regain your composure or stamina.

 

I updated the Fatigue and Health Potion Overhaul descriptions. You can now drink Health Potions to restore some Fatigue, but this requires for Health Pots to be limited. I could even add the idea of a Fatigue Potion specifically for that - perhaps only obtainable through Perks.

 

 

 

Spoiler

First of all, I can appreciate that you've obviously put a lot of effort into these.

 

Now my feedback on the Rogue trees:

• Using a Weapon And Shield may allow one to take more hits, it's superior offence and the ability to avoid taking damage entirely that make Rogues into dangerous combatants.
   
• The Archery tree looks like the one from DAO which was the worst time to be an archer. The current archery tree in Inquisition is already the best in the series.
   
• Alchemy is mostly fine except Serpent Strike. Weapon agnostic talents outside of the weapon trees are the way to go IMO.
   
• As with Archery, the Dual Wield tree looks ripped straight from DAO save for a few talents like Parry (a talent most useful for keeping the AI alive but somewhat dubious otherwise) and Unforgiving Chain (a talent with next to no value for any rogue at all).
  As it stands, Twin Fangs looks like a worse version of it's current iteration, there's no hard hitting single target attack like Deathblow or an attack that allows you to re-position like Flank Attack or DA2's Backstab and the sustained talents, Lacerate particularly, are of questionable value.
   
• The Artificer tree is missing the talents that made it one of the best specializations in the DAI: Hail of Arrows and Opportunity Knocks.
  Crossbow Sentry aside, the rest of the traps look to be useful only to those who like fights taking a lot longer than they need to.
   
• The Subterfuge tree is mostly fine although it does have one too many active talents for my liking. Back To Back and Decoy could be done without though.

IMO, as a result of opening up Dual Wielding and Archery to warriors and mages, Rogues lose a lot of the ability to deal heavy damage in a short amount of time.

 

My suggestions:

• Separate the DW and Archery trees into class specific ones. Rogues specialise in single target DPS and as it stands, the current trees do not allow for that.
  Rogues using double daggers but gaining hard hitting talents and passives that boost crit chance or flanking damage would be my preference while Warriors can use anything but get passives that buff their attack speed and crit chance.
   
• Drop the Weapon and Shield tree entirely. It's far too defensive to be of use to a rogue and simply not getting hit is far better than being able to take it.
   
• Make all talents outside of the weapon trees agnostic, i.e. usable with any weapon.
   
• While I appreciate giving the Artificer an actual theme, it's a severely neutered version of the current specialisation. Personally I would like to see it restricted to bows or crossbows with a focus on increasing rate of fire and crit chance to take advantage of Opportunity Knocks which already exists.

All in all I get the sense that you don't really play rogues much.

 

I could care less about mages having more options but to me, playing a rogue should be a case of high risk, high reward and your current take on the rogue trees means that playing a rogue carries the same risk sans the reward.

 

Just my two cents.

 

You're right on the money, I don't play Rogues much - not because I don't like them, but because my only DA:I playthrough was with a Mage. Anyway, I have addressed your concerns with the Rogue's inability to dish out damage, as well as with Weapon and Shields. They don't gain GUARD anymore, but retaliate instead. I added in Opportunity Knocks in the Subterfuge tree. Check the Rogue trees out (Dual-Wield got major changes).

 

As for Hail of Arrows... I'll admit to not liking Focus skills much. They all come off as this save-until-bossfight, get-out-of-jail-free skill. However, if enough people want them, I'll put them back in. I might just replace Ambush from the Ranger spec tree to Hail of Arrows.

 

I would just like to point out that it's kinda hard to tell whether they are underpowered or not since there are no damage values available. X differs from skill to skill.

[eyezonlyii]

The reason why every class can do everything (sorta) is that I dislike restrictions. If I want to go in combat with a greatsword on my Mage, why shouldn't I be able to do that? I imagine the most obvious reason would be that it's difficult to balance, and granted, maybe each class does need it's own version of weapon-masteries, but afaik, I like being able to use whatever on whatever. Option, y'know. I guess it boils down to a matter of preference.

 

Concerning the Saarebas, they may be able to cast spells without any tools, wouldn't wielding one make them stronger? You might be able to harm someone with your fists, having a knife would be more destructive. Besides, I don't think we have enough information on Saarebas to be able to tell whether they are better Mages than Circle/Tevinter Mages, which I strongly doubt they are.

I get that people want to do different things, and that's cool. Bit how about instead of having access to the trees, just remove the class restrictions, like in origins? I think that's a fair compromise. If you want to run into battle with your mage and wielding a greatsword, then that's cool, but a mage wouldn't have the necessary hours trained with a sword and be a competent mage, at least according to the lore.

Which brings me to saarabas. According to the game (I think it was Vivienne and someone else confirms) saarabas and in fact, hedge mages in general are not very powerful. It's because of the Circles that Thedas' (and by extension Tevinter) mages are any good. A mage trained outside of those areas, without "proper" instruction have stunted magic, permanently. But that's really not here nor there. 

 

I just think the weapons for mages would be good enough. No need for them to have 9 talent trees (plus a specialization) to choose from while a warrior only has 6 (plus special).

[Duelist]

You're right on the money, I don't play Rogues much - not because I don't like them, but because my only DA:I playthrough was with a Mage. Anyway, I have addressed your concerns with the Rogue's inability to dish out damage, as well as with Weapon and Shields. They don't gain GUARD anymore, but retaliate instead. I added in Opportunity Knocks in the Subterfuge tree. Check the Rogue trees out (Dual-Wield got major changes).

As for Hail of Arrows... I'll admit to not liking Focus skills much. They all come off as this save-until-bossfight, get-out-of-jail-free skill. However, if enough people want them, I'll put them back in. I might just replace Ambush from the Ranger spec tree to Hail of Arrows.

I would just like to point out that it's kinda hard to tell whether they are underpowered or not since there are no damage values available. X differs from skill to skill.

On the bolded: my main reason for perceiving the rogue skills as underpowered is past experience.
Unforgiving Chain was all but useless in DAI because Sneak Attack effectively doubled crit chance while your other sustained talents were reminiscent of past abilities that were either:
- Easily replaced. Momentum in DAO is the closest analogue to Flurry Of Strikes and it could be replaced by Haste or in DAI, Flask Of Lightning .
- Only worth investing in if you had leftover points. Lacerate was a passive in DAO and didn't do much extra damage whereas it was a sustained talent in DA2 that did the same thing only it cost more stamina than it was worth (although it did make Vendetta on a staggered target really, really hurt).
- Not worth the stamina cost. I'm on mobile at the moment so I'm going off of memory here because I can't see the trees but a little extra damage at the cost of expending stamina isn't really worthwhile when one considers that a rogue can pump out quick, hard hitting crits consistently and some crazy burst damage.

On focus abilities, I take your point and personally can live without them.

As an aside, despite knowing how pointless these sorts of threads are, I do so enjoy them.

Peace.

[Spellbound7]

I get that people want to do different things, and that's cool. Bit how about instead of having access to the trees, just remove the class restrictions, like in origins? I think that's a fair compromise. If you want to run into battle with your mage and wielding a greatsword, then that's cool, but a mage wouldn't have the necessary hours trained with a sword and be a competent mage, at least according to the lore.

Which brings me to saarabas. According to the game (I think it was Vivienne and someone else confirms) saarabas and in fact, hedge mages in general are not very powerful. It's because of the Circles that Thedas' (and by extension Tevinter) mages are any good. A mage trained outside of those areas, without "proper" instruction have stunted magic, permanently. But that's really not here nor there. 

 

I just think the weapons for mages would be good enough. No need for them to have 9 talent trees (plus a specialization) to choose from while a warrior only has 6 (plus special).

 

Were I to make an RPG, that's pretty much how I would do it (no classes), unless, ofc, magic is something special you are born with like in the Dragon Age universe. Then you would have the Mage and the non-Mage class. The non-Mage would still get the short end of the stick though, unless having magic makes you physically weak or something, so you can only be good at magic. Opening up the weapon trees would be the way to go, so then you can create your class yourself. Kinda like Skyrim, come to think of it.

 

Keep in mind that Mages are supposed to be overpowered based on Dragon Age lore. Even though, giving them access to 9 trees doesn't make them better than warriors with only 6 trees since at the end of the day they'll all be getting the same number of skill points.

 

 

On the bolded: my main reason for perceiving the rogue skills as underpowered is past experience.
Unforgiving Chain was all but useless in DAI because Sneak Attack effectively doubled crit chance while your other sustained talents were reminiscent of past abilities that were either:
- Easily replaced. Momentum in DAO is the closest analogue to Flurry Of Strikes and it could be replaced by Haste or in DAI, Flask Of Lightning .
- Only worth investing in if you had leftover points. Lacerate was a passive in DAO and didn't do much extra damage whereas it was a sustained talent in DA2 that did the same thing only it cost more stamina than it was worth (although it did make Vendetta on a staggered target really, really hurt).
- Not worth the stamina cost. I'm on mobile at the moment so I'm going off of memory here because I can't see the trees but a little extra damage at the cost of expending stamina isn't really worthwhile when one considers that a rogue can pump out quick, hard hitting crits consistently and some crazy burst damage.

On focus abilities, I take your point and personally can live without them.

As an aside, despite knowing how pointless these sorts of threads are, I do so enjoy them.

Peace.

 

The thing I'm going for in this overhaul is giving you options. If you don't pick Tempest as a specialisation and so can't pick Flask of Lightning, you can still get the attack speed boost with Flurry of Strike in the Dual-Wield tree. That being said, it's entirely possible that there are skill overlaps in the skill trees I made, so I'm relying on feedback to change them if need be. Point in case - I did some significant modification on a lot of talents based on your own feedback, so keep 'em coming, I guess

 

Glad you enjoy this type of thread. I do enjoy making it

[Abraham_uk]

The biggest issue I see is of course the sheer amount of options a mage has. There is almost no incentive to play anything else if as a mage you have access to all the weapons and talents on top of all of the spell trees too. 

 

I think the Warrior and Rogue should have more "weapon agnostic" trees. I intend there to be 5 per class.

I'm going to address this in a later post. (It is going to be huge).

Now to address the point you made.

 

One way to look at the mages is as two separate classes. Battle Mage and Mage.

 

Battle Mage: Uses the four weapon trees along with the mage's five skill trees. However the mage cannot compete with warriors or rogues in terms of weapon damage. In addition the warrior is a lot more durable, has their unique skill trees and the rogue is stealthy along with having their unique skill trees. Add to this the fact that pure mages are more effective at spell casting then you have a class that sacrifices efficiency for versatility.

 

Pure Mage: Uses their five skill trees to great effect. Is superior to Battlemage in terms of spell casting but lacks the physical skill trees which puts them at a disadvantage when fighting magic resistant and magic immune foes.

 

Rogue: Has stealth and high peak damage. They have access to alchemy and traps too.

 

Warrior: They can take a lot of punishment in addition to dealing a lot of damage without resorting to stealth.

 

So I'd argue that there are good incentives to choosing Pure Mages, Rogues and Warriors over Battle Mages. However battle mages are still viable options.

[Spellbound7]

I think the Warrior and Rogue should have more "weapon agnostic" trees. I intend there to be 5 per class.

I'm going to address this in a later post. (It is going to be huge).

Now to address the point you made.

 

One way to look at the mages is as two separate classes. Battle Mage and Mage.

 

Battle Mage: Uses the four weapon trees along with the mage's five skill trees. However the mage cannot compete with warriors or rogues in terms of weapon damage. In addition the warrior is a lot more durable, has their unique skill trees and the rogue is stealthy along with having their unique skill trees. Add to this the fact that pure mages are more effective at spell casting then you have a class that sacrifices efficiency for versatility.

 

Pure Mage: Uses their five skill trees to great effect. Is superior to Battlemage in terms of spell casting but lacks the physical skill trees which puts them at a disadvantage when fighting magic resistant and magic immune foes.

 

Rogue: Has stealth and high peak damage. They have access to alchemy and traps too.

 

Warrior: They can take a lot of punishment in addition to dealing a lot of damage without resorting to stealth.

 

So I'd argue that there are good incentives to choosing Pure Mages, Rogues and Warriors over Battle Mages. However battle mages are still viable options.

 

I have an idea on how to collapse all four weapon specialisations into 1 tree for the Mage so that all classes have 6 skill trees... though it could potentially make Mages ridiculously overpowered. I'll give it a go and see what the concensus on it is.

[eyezonlyii]

Were I to make an RPG, that's pretty much how I would do it (no classes), unless, ofc, magic is something special you are born with like in the Dragon Age universe. Then you would have the Mage and the non-Mage class. The non-Mage would still get the short end of the stick though, unless having magic makes you physically weak or something, so you can only be good at magic. Opening up the weapon trees would be the way to go, so then you can create your class yourself. Kinda like Skyrim, come to think of it.

 

Keep in mind that Mages are supposed to be overpowered based on Dragon Age lore. Even though, giving them access to 9 trees doesn't make them better than warriors with only 6 trees since at the end of the day they'll all be getting the same number of skill points.

 

I too like the idea of mage and nonmage, as that would allow for some varied builds, however I do have to disagree with the mages are overpowered statement. If that were true, why would they need Circles? There are one or two wartable missions where you can send forces to help mages who locked themselves in their Circles to get away from mundanes. If they were so OP, then a small group of mages should have had no problem with some rabble rousers. 

 

I'm trying to work out in my head what kind of system I would use, so I'll post when the majority of kinks are out.

[JadeDragon]

Lyrium gauntlets and greaves can make mages like a battlemage/monk hybrid. melee weapons for mages is a better way to spice things up then just elemental trees. Have staves be a tree for support/aoe mages and gauntlet and greave be for single target/tank mages. Then rogues can have there dagger tree and archer tree warriors have sword and shield and two handed then mages could have the two i mentioned. That gives 2 range units and 4 melee units. and if you wanna roll with a party of more then one mage then you have a melee mage then a mage with a staff in the back. Ill probably come up with a tree for staff and G&G then post it here. But basic attacks for the G&G could be elemental punchs and kicks combos followed by a groundpound that makes a small aoe shockwave around the mage to finish off the combo similar to how a staff combo ends by sending out multiple elemental bolts only this is the melee version of that.

[Patchwork]

In game there's no reason why someone can't pick up any sort of weapon and over time become an expert in its use but gameplay wise I would restrict the types of weapons that are most effective for a class. 

Warriors-crossbows slower than bows but always hard hitting.

Rogue- dirk and buckler size sword/shield combo to maintain agility.

Mage- two handed staff weapons like halberds, a standard mage weapon with a usable melee bit*.

 

*To become really effective in melee I would ditch the spirit blade part of the KE specialisation and have part of the tree focus on offence/defence weapon use, stances, parries that sort of thing. 

[Abraham_uk]

Staying true to the OP there will be only 10 abilities per tree (passive, sustained and active). No upgrades at the moment.

 

___________________________________________________________________________

 

Mage:

 

For the Mage, I'm thinking of keeping them exactly the same as the current OP at the time of this post:

 

___________________________________________________________________________

 

Warrior:

 

New Trees:

 

Finesse:  The warrior's true strength comes from finesse, footwork and technique rather than raw physical power.

Spoiler

 

Precision (Active): For short time warrior's attacks will have a higher chance of landing critical hits.

 

Glance (Active): For brief duration, whenever enemies hit you, there is a small chance that they will land what is known as a glancing blow. These glancing blows will deal a lot less damage.

 

Kick (Active): This ability has no cooldown nor does it cost any stamina. Kick a foe at the right moment and you will knock down low level foes and stagger all other foes. If you time this badly, the enemy will attack your leg causing you to lose a bit of health.
In addition. A foe that is affected can take additional damage from your melee attacks.

 

Staggering Attacks (Sustained): This mode reserves a portion of the Warrior's stamina to increase the chances of all attacks staggering opponents.

 

 

Block and Parry (Sustained): This mode reserves a portion of the Warrior's stamina to increase the chances of automatically blocking and parrying in melee combat.

 

Nimble Fingers (Passive): The warriors movements are smaller in battle. Whilst this slows down the warriors attack speed, this passive increases the warrior's damage output.

 

Enduring Finesse (Passive): Increases the durations of Glance and Precision abilities, reduces their cool downs and stamina cost. + 3 Willpower on unlock

 

Reflexes (Passive): You'll be notified when the time is right to kick an opponent or use the parry ability. This doesn't change the fact that you have a less than one second window to use either ability.

 

Weapon Techniques (Passive): The warrior will add improved counter animations into their three melee combat styles (weapon & shield, 2 hand and dual wield).

 

Ranged Weapon Techniques (Passive): The warrior will sacrifice rate of speed for bows to increase range and damage output.

 

 

Calamity: The warrior is better at punishing foes with negative status affects.

Spoiler

 

Depletion Mode (Sustained): Every attack will deal less damage but will reduce the amount of stamina a foe has. (This doesn't work on mages manna pool).

 

Fatiguing Mode (Active): For a short time all attacks will slightly slow down a foe. This is the only ability in this tree that stacks with itself.

 

Smashing Mode (Active): During this mode the warrior will have a chance of lowering their foe's weapon damage output with regular attacks. This has a short duration.

 

Weakening Mode (Active): During this mode the warrior will have a chance of lowering their foe's damage resistance. This has a short duration.

 

Blinding Mode (Active): During this mode the warrior will have a chance of lowing foe's accuracy.

 

Ravaging Calamity (Passive): All of the calamity abilities will weaken foes even more.

 

Lingering Calamity (Passive): Any debuff delivered to an enemy from a calamity ability will last longer.

 

Stealth Exploit (Passive): All foes who are affected by calamity abilities will be more vulnerable to stealth based critical hits.

 

Magic Exploit (Passive): All foes who are affected by calamity abilities will be more vulnerable to magic based attacks. 

 

Knockdown Exploit (Passive): All foes who are affected by calamity abilities will be easier to knock down.

 

Channeling: The warrior uses extra stamina to enhance their regular attacks (much like the beserker). Channeling once again is more to do with technique over raw physical power.

Spoiler

 

Adrenaline Burst (Active): Your stamina rapidly depletes. Whilst this is active your regular attacks and weapon skills deal a lot more damage.

 

Channel Defence (Active): For a short time you take less damage from all sources but deal less damage as well. (Makes you a tank).

 

Channel Offence (Active): For a short time you deal a lot more damage but you take more damage from all sources. (Makes you a glass cannon).

 

Adrenaline Shot (Active): You can completely restore your stamina and reset all cool downs (except the one for this ability).

This ability has a 10 minute cool down.

 

Striker (Active): For brief period of time ignore barriers and guard to deal direct damage to health.

 

Against All Odds (Passive): When more than 4 foes are attacking you, you gain a damage bonus.

 

Last Offence (Passive): When health is below 30% you gain a damage bonus.

 

Body and Mind (Passive): Increases the duration of channel abilities.

 

Intense Training (Passive): Reduces stamina consumption of all channelling abilities.

 

Intense Channelling (Passive): Improves the effectiveness of channelling abilities. 

 

 

All other trees the same as OP.

 

___________________________________________________________________________

 

Rogue:

 

Weapon and Shield: Same talents as OP, however Rogue would be restricted to small shields and smaller 1 handed weapons. The Rogue will be faster and stealthier, but will lack the damage output and durability of the Warrior.

 

New Trees:

 

Fencing: Small precise movements, footwork, accuracy and finesse are the tricks of the trade. The rogue will use foils, sabres, rapiers and epees to deliver devastating blows.

Spoiler

 

Engarde (Sustained): Take an attack stance that guards your weapon arm and body. This is not the most offensive stance you can take. You will deal less damage but will have a much higher rate of parries and riposting.

 

Threaten (Sustained): Adopt an attack stance that sacrifices defence for greater offence. You won't be able to parry as much though.

 

Beat and Strike (Active): When the opponent is attacking, beat their weapon out the way before striking them. This is a guaranteed critical hit if your blade strikes.

 

Lunge (Active): The rogue will point the blade and step forward for a powerful attack. This will be a guaranteed critical hit if timed right. If timed poorly you'll take a lot of damage.

 

Circular Parry (Active): Tiny movements with the fingers will move the blade to the other side of the foe's weapon before hitting them where they're exposed.

 

Target the Arm (Active):  An excruciatingly painful jab to the opponent's arm will cause them to suffer permanent penalty to their damage output.

 

Path of the Epée (Passive): This is a point weapon. So there no cut type attacks. While you'll have a lower rate of successful hits, every successful hit will a lot of damage. This passive improves your damage output with the Epée.

 

Path of the Sabre (Passive): Sabres allow for cutting. Sabre users do not strike below the waist and concentrate on the upper body, arms and head. You'll gain a higher chance of hitting enemies but won't deal as much damage. With armoured opponents you'll be less effective. Mages and lightly armoured foes are vulnerable against this style. This passive improves your damage output with the Epée.

 

Path of the Foil (Passive): The foil is a more basic fencing weapon. It weighs less than the others and is faster. However it deals less damage too. However this weapon gains the best damage bonuses from stealth. This passive improves your damage output with Foils.

 

Path of the Rapier (Passive): This well balanced and well designed sword can cut, slice and thrust. It outclasses the other swords however this style of combat will be more stamina intensive. Even regular attacks will consume stamina. This passive improves your damage with rapiers.

 

 

Dirty Fighting: Low blows, feigning death, distracting lures, dummy attacks to open up foes to critical hits etc. The rogue will fight dishonourably to gain the upper hand.

Spoiler

 

Feign Death (Active): Appear lying dead on the ground. When you spring out of this position for 2 seconds you gain a damage bonus.

 

Below The Belt (Active): Attack a foes legs reducing mobility. Male opponents be warned. Rogues will go straight for the midsection weakening foe's damage output and damage resistance.

 

Insult (Active): The rogue taunts a foe with an insult. This insult puts the foe into a rage. This rage greatly reduces their accuracy but also increases their damage output.

 

Dummy Attack (Active): The rogue will issue a dummy attack at an enemy. The enemy will of course try to counter this attack, but in doing so will open themselves up. For a brief 1 second window that foe will be very vulnerable to any attack. The entire party can exploit this situation.

 

Divert Attention (Active): Divert attention from the rogue to an ally of your choice. This ability will make all foes attack chosen ally instead. This is best used if there is a tank on the battlefield.

 

Armistice (Active): Draw enemy attention away from one party member to attack another party member.

 

Brand (Active): Brand a foe to be attacked by your allies. For a brief time all allies will have a higher critical chance against said foe.

 

Scourge (Passive): Increases damage output of a surprise attack from Feign Death and Below The Belt ability.

 

Tainted Weapons (Passive): All of the weapon talents are guaranteed to inflict bleed effect (with exception of spirits, abominations, golems and darkspawn). In addition there is a small chance that weapon talents can blind foes.

 

Ruin (Passive): Increases debuffs from Below The Belt, Insult and Dummy Attack.

 

 

 

Agility: This tree enables the rogue to rush from A to B very quickly. They can also rush into enemies (potentially knocking foes down). Agility also enables rogues to run without breaking out of stealth.

Spoiler

 

Rush (Active): The rogue will rush attempting to knock down all nearby enemies. This requires a target.

 

Silent Dash (Active): The rogue will sprint a short distance. This can be done without interrupting stealth.

 

Back To Back (Active): The rogue will dash towards an ally ready to lend their aid.

 

Speed (Sustained): This mode boosts the rogue's speed. You cannot use this at the same time as precision and/or power.

 

Precision (Sustained): This mode boosts the rogue's accuracy and critical chance. You cannot use this at the same time as power and/or speed.

 

Power (Sustained): This mode boosts the rogue's damage output. You cannot use this at the same time as speed and/or precision.

 

Harmony (Passive): Improves all of the sustained abilities in the agility skill tree.

 

Athleticism (Passive): Improves all of the active abilities in the agility skill tree.

 

Additional Reserves (Passive): .The rogue has a second reserve of stamina should the main pool run out. The rogue also has an additional reserve of health. The two second reserves cannot be restored by stamina salves and health potions. They can only be restored by resting. Please note that the pools have: 150 HP and 100 SP.

 

All other trees the same as OP.

[b10d1v]

I thought long and hard about letting all classes use all weapons, however, take the Rogue - how would it benefit a rogue to wield a 2-handed weapon? Besides the increased crit chance, they don't really get much bang for their buck. Rogues follow the principle that they are glass cannons, and their survivability comes from avoiding damage altogether - encumbering weapons like greatswords and weapon-and-shield directly prevent them from doing so. It would make little sense to allow rogue to blink-backstab with a greatsword - not only is that kinda ridiculous, it would also be rather overpowered given the sheer damage a greatsword has. That being said, I would love to hear any workaround anyone may have.

 

One thing I'm thinking of doing is to separate the Sabotage tree into two different ones: Traps and Alchemy.

 

As for the warrior, I imagine there is no harm to give them access to the archery tree - they did have it originally... and I don't remember why i removed it? I mean, the archery skills would synergise well with the ranged attacks from Battlemaster.

 

I'll look at your suggestions closely. Expect an update soon

Greatsword is a bit silly for a rogue class. The biggest gripe I've seen for the rogue is single vs dual blades and swapping to a bow.  As I understand it inquisition modeling lag is an issue that needs attention before the swap can work correctly and the behavior models have to allow it and they clearly need an overhaul.  The control system is another issue.  I'm one for keeping mages at a distance for protection, however that is not always feasible in inquisitions, invisibility, traps, teleport and the like are useful to escape danger.  I like your ideas and appreciate your work to date and suggest a larger team would help make them more feasible and functional, as any one of the weak elements could cause you problems.

[Duelist]

The thing I'm going for in this overhaul is giving you options. If you don't pick Tempest as a specialisation and so can't pick Flask of Lightning, you can still get the attack speed boost with Flurry of Strike in the Dual-Wield tree. That being said, it's entirely possible that there are skill overlaps in the skill trees I made, so I'm relying on feedback to change them if need be. Point in case - I did some significant modification on a lot of talents based on your own feedback, so keep 'em coming, I guess

Glad you enjoy this type of thread. I do enjoy making it

I get what you're going for, it's just the way that a Rogue uses two weapons vs the way a Warrior does comes down to the fact that the latter relies far more on taking down enemies with quick, decisive strikes rather than going toe to toe.


My thoughts:

• The Dual Wield tree looks vastly improved this time. Painstrike looks like it drew inspiration from Deathblow which is one of my favourite dagger talents. It could maybe use something akin to Flank Attack or Backstab from DA2 though.
• Archery could stand to take more inspiration from DAI as well since it's the best in the series (yes even better than Awakening).
• Still not sold on Weapon And Shield. As I said before, it's still far too defensive for my liking.
• I didn't mention this before but I really like the different poisons on offer in the Alchemy tree. I always loved making my own poisons in DAO and to a lesser extent in DA2 but I could understand it not being for everyone.

Other than that, I like the changes I've seen.

Peace.