60 réponses à ce sujet

[God]

Boy, is this one shallow and weak analysis.

 

And the response of yours matches it in such terms. 

[Sah291]

I too wish there had been more Corypheus. I really liked his introduction in the Legacy DLC, and it's not so much that his scenes weren't good (he has some interesting lines and his voice actor was really good). It just seemed there was a lot hinted at with his character that wasn't explored.

 

For instance, I really felt like we needed at least one more story scene in between Haven and the Well, with dialogue between Cory and the Quizzy, to flesh him out more. He's lacking that sort of mid point to his character development. We go right from a dramatic introduction in Haven that leaves you wanting to find out more, and by the time we get to interact with him again it's end game already. Almost makes me wonder if there was more originally that got cut for whatever reason. Part of it may also be that Cory was originally a villain for a previous protagonist. So that more personal history he had with Hawke (and Hawke's father) never comes into play. 

 

That all said, I do think it's probably intentional Cory turned out to be less significant in the end. It turns out he really was just a pawn in the grand scheme of things, with other characters pulling strings behind the scenes, and the real culprit was right next to you all along.

[thedancingdruid]

Corypheus is not pure evil, he is jaded and misguided. Corrupted by centuries of slumber in isolation, driven mad with blight. His great mistake was abandoning Dumat and seeking to become a god himself. It is no wonder Dumat chose to ignore his pleas especially after he spent all of inquisition mocking his lord.

 

Maybe that is because Dumat is dead, cause of and victim to the First Blight.

[lordsaren101]

Gods cannot die. Dumat answered him in DA2. Everytime he begged for power during the fight Dumat granted one. Also the altar of Dumat.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

I stopped reading after "the mage quest line makes no sense"

In case you missed the obvious. Corypheus's goal is to become a god, with the purpose of restoring his country to its former glory. Since the gods are silent he seeks to become one to guide his people and restore Tevinter to what he consider its rightful place - ruling the rest of Thedas. The core of his motivation is the restoration of Tevinter and reclaiming what he consider is rightfully his, the power of the Black city.

The mage quest line made no sense because Corypheus's goal and motivation is not to destroy the world. What we see in the future with the mage quest line is pretty much "the world has gone to #%&¤". And according to this future Corypheus is alive and ruling it pretty much as a "hell on earth". 

So the mage quest line made no sense according to Corypheus's primary motivation and drive and his character. If you want to disagree on this go ahead but at least state why you think this is wrong.

[X Equestris]

In case you missed the obvious. Corypheus's goal is to become a god, with the purpose of restoring his country to its former glory. Since the gods are silent he seeks to become one to guide his people and restore Tevinter to what he consider its rightful place - ruling the rest of Thedas. The core of his motivation is the restoration of Tevinter and reclaiming what he consider is rightfully his, the power of the Black city.
The mage quest line made no sense because Corypheus's goal and motivation is not to destroy the world. What we see in the future with the mage quest line is pretty much "the world has gone to #%&¤". And according to this future Corypheus is alive and ruling it pretty much as a "hell on earth". 
So the mage quest line made no sense according to Corypheus's primary motivation and drive and his character. If you want to disagree on this go ahead but at least state why you think this is wrong.

He was searching for a way to erase the Inquisitor's accidental seizure of the Anchor, and to do that he was relying on Alexius' time magic. He's still trying to become a god, though.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

 

That all said, I do think it's probably intentional Cory turned out to be less significant in the end. It turns out he really was just a pawn in the grand scheme of things, with other characters pulling strings behind the scenes, and the real culprit was right next to you all along.

That is one of the main points I was trying to make. Our lack of dialogue or choices in dealing with Corypheus in the end is, imo, a result of Corypheus being a narrative stepping stone deemed fulfilled in purpose by the writers. 

The Fen'Harel and his foci stone seems to take precedent over a satisfying roleplaying experience when it comes to dialogue, choices or handling Corypheus in the end. Because the writers "had to have this end in him dying nomatter what". As a consequence, we are deprived of a deeper dialogue with Corypheus.

We don't even have the option to to ATTEMPT to persuade him, understand him better, join him or otherwise engage in a meaningful conversation.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

He was searching for a way to erase the Inquisitor's accidental seizure of the Anchor, and to do that he was relying on Alexius' time magic. He's still trying to become a god, though.

It may be that I have misunderstood this part. If Corypheus had one year to do what he wanted with the Inquisitor out of the way, shouldn't he already have gained the power of the well of sorrows and claimed the power of the black city at this point?

[Reznore57]

It may be that I have misunderstood this part. If Corypheus had one year to do what he wanted with the Inquisitor out of the way, shouldn't he already have gained the power of the well of sorrows and claimed the power of the black city at this point?

 

He didn't ascend to Godhood via the non Golden City in the bleak future.

He raised a demon army , took control of Orlais etc...people fear him and call him a God.

But the Breach is getting out of hand , it's spreading , rifts and demons everywhere...that's why things are wrong.

And  Corynoob still spread red lyrium , using dissidents and prisoners to grow the stuff and kill and torture those who don't follow him.He's a dictator.

 

Anyway he wants Alexius to turn back time before the Breach so he can get the anchor .

[fhs33721]

In case you missed the obvious. Corypheus's goal is to become a god, with the purpose of restoring his country to its former glory. Since the gods are silent he seeks to become one to guide his people and restore Tevinter to what he consider its rightful place - ruling the rest of Thedas. The core of his motivation is the restoration of Tevinter and reclaiming what he consider is rightfully his, the power of the Black city.

The mage quest line made no sense because Corypheus's goal and motivation is not to destroy the world. What we see in the future with the mage quest line is pretty much "the world has gone to #%&¤". And according to this future Corypheus is alive and ruling it pretty much as a "hell on earth". 

So the mage quest line made no sense according to Corypheus's primary motivation and drive and his character. If you want to disagree on this go ahead but at least state why you think this is wrong.

Yeah, the future we see in Redcliffe is obviously not the one Corypheus envisioned though. He failed to achieve his goals there. He took over southern Thedas, but without the Inquisitor's anchor he couldn't become a god and the breach just widened and he and his followers slowly but surely lost control over the ever increasing numbers of demons. Therefore the demons took over most of thedas and even the Venatori are threatened by them now.

That's why Corypheus wants Alexuis to turn back time to before the breach happened. It's a not a future where Corypheus won, but one where the breach fucked up everything for everyone.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Yeah, the future we see in Redcliffe is obviously not the one Corypheus envisioned though. He failed to achieve his goals there. He took over southern Thedas, but without the Inquisitor's anchor he couldn't become a god and the breach just widened and he and his followers slowly but surely lost control over the ever increasing numbers of demons. Therefore the demons took over most of thedas and even the Venatori are threatened by them now.

That's why Corypheus wants Alexuis to turn back time to before the breach happened. It's a not a future where Corypheus won, but one where the breach fucked up everything for everyone.

Thanks for clearing this up. So we are not explained why he didn't manage to claim the well of sorrows in the future?

[fhs33721]

Thanks for clearing this up. So we are not explained why he didn't manage to claim the well of sorrows in the future?

Not really.

Maybe at first he didn't see any urgent need to find it since he was sucessfull in assassinating the Empress and raising a demon army, making it seems like all his plans were suceeding at first. And then later on after he conquered Orlais he might have been to occupied with other problems like the increasing demon hordes spawning and ruining his new empire?

Or he wanted to wait for Alexius to research a way for him to obtain the anchor via time magic somehow first? The well was after all plan B.

[Sah291]

That is one of the main points I was trying to make. Our lack of dialogue or choices in dealing with Corypheus in the end is, imo, a result of Corypheus being a narrative stepping stone deemed fulfilled in purpose by the writers.
The Fen'Harel and his foci stone seems to take precedent over a satisfying roleplaying experience when it comes to dialogue, choices or handling Corypheus in the end. Because the writers "had to have this end in him dying nomatter what". As a consequence, we are deprived of a deeper dialogue with Corypheus.
We don't even have the option to to ATTEMPT to persuade him, understand him better, join him or otherwise engage in a meaningful conversation.

I agree with you, and like I said part of it may be because he was originally conceived as a villain for Hawke, so with Hawke's story cut short, the closure there is lacking. But the shift in focus to Solas/Fen'Harel does make more sense for the Inquisitor, as a new protagonist....the Quizzy has a more intimate and personal relationship with him, so Solas as a potential villain is more meaningful in that context. I'm guessing the decision to scrap the DA2 expansion is the reason. They attempted to fold elements of that story into Inquisition, in order to bridge the gap, but at the same time a transition to something new was needed due to the shift in direction. This is one area where it didn't work as well, because it feels like we are missing a chunck of Cory's character development.

[Lumix19]

His background could go somewhere interesting , I mean he was a High Priest , the Gods went silent , people started to turn away from the faith...he's getting depressed.So Bam Golden City .
But then there's numerous problems , in DA2 DLC , we're told someone promised them the "Golden Light" , and as he leaves Cory says he seek "The Light".
In DAI , in codices , it seems the magisters came up with the idea of invading the city all by themselves , and Cory doesn't say anything about the Light anymore.
 
And then it's really falling apart , he says we only find "darkness and dead whispers , empty throne blablablabla."
So why does he want to go there AGAIN?
The place is corrupted to the core and the only thing he can come up with is "I'll go back there and this time I'm going to be a God somehow".
You'd think he would want to find out what happened exactly , or if someone told them to go , he would be busy trying to find out the betrayer ...or tear the place down.Or I don't know figure out what happened to the Old Gods , he was a priest afterall.
Nope , the dude go straight to the stupid plan , it didn't work the first time , surely if I go there again, it's going to work now.
 
I mean it's the same thing with the Grey Warden and the Demon Army.Or Florianne with the whole I'm going to follow the lunatic darkspawn.

To be fair the first time he went there he got practical immortality plus the power of the Blight and he didn't even get to sit on the throne. What happens a second time might be even more amazing. Plus if I was Florianne I would have certainly considered Corypheus' offer. From third in line for the throne to God-queen of the entire world? Sounds like a bargain to me.

[Bad King]

Final nail in the coffin for me was when we had no dialogue to converse deeper with Corypheus at the end. Because lets face it, that guy would love to talk all day if our Inquisitor tried to. But why were we denied this? No alternate "talk him down" ending or at least the attempt? No deeper and branching dialogue with Corypheus on a more intellectual or philosophical level? No "I will join you!" attempts? No nothing? One line? Really? After 100+ hours?

 

I definitely agree with this point. Would have been good to have some sort of detailed conversation with him like we did with Sovereign in Mass Effect. Sadly, he turned out to be more like Harbinger from Mass Effect 2 - his dialogue mostly consisted of throwing insults at the Inquisitor.

 

As it is, Corypheus and his motives are only really developed during the attack on Haven and in the snippets of dialogue that we hear during Calpernia's quest.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I never cared about Corypheus' motivations, backstory, sorrows, hopes, dreams, etc. None of that matters when the man's delusional idiocy and manipulations lead to the deaths of thousands, possibly tens of thousands. 

 

He's a monster. A villain. A bad guy. A jerk punching down that needs to die so the rest of the world can go back to normal. And that's all that he is. The same can be side about Saren, the Reapers, Loghain, Meredith, the Arishok, Anders, Samson and Calpernia. None of their possibly tragic circumstances justify crimes and deaths they create. 

[lordsaren101]

Corypheus is a tragic character. HE wasn't a bad man in life. It was revealed that he was a decent man during the Shrine of Dumat questline. However, the Imperium was in turmoil, civil war and power squabbles were turning it from the Old Gods and to political dominance. As a faithful man, he saw this as egregious. So with the other six high priests they concocted a ritual in an attempt to reach the Old Gods by entering the fade. It all went downhill from there.

 

Fast forward 1000+ years and he awakens as an immortal pseudo darkspawn. The world is literally upsidedown. Tevinter has fallen into a shadow of the glory it once had. The Gods that were so loved are now shunned, declared false and blamed for all the woes of mankind. In their place a so called cult of the maker has arisen, the ultimate non existent absentee deity. 

 

Upon awakening he is naturally out of sorts and is immediately attacked and defeated by Hawke and friends. Embittered by the life he is enduring he renounces Dumat, he renounces all faith. HE sees Thedas as broken and decaying which in all honestly it is. Gone are the days of enlightenment of the Imperium and the guidance of the gods. In it's place is a Chantry that has oppressed people as brutally if not more so than Tevinter ever did and to make everything worse they demonize his own people at every chance.

 

I fully understand and empathize with Corypheus and his intentions, however I criticize his means. His abandonment of Dumat was foolish and did him no credit, his pursuit of godhood is and always was an insult to not only Dumat, but all the gods. His hubris would not allow him to see this.

 

In the end as he is about to be banished to the fade by the Inquisitor, he calls out to Dumat, the god he cast aside before embarking on his quest for apotheosis. Dumat appropriately ignores his pleas. 

 

Corypheus should have stayed loyal to his god and disappeared for awhile and used his considerable power for purposes suited towards Dumat's will, instead he is defeated by a lesser being one who will no doubt continue working towards the stupidity that has placed Thedas in dire straights to begin with.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Someonestolemyname:  If you're asking if the African soldier child is evil in the sense that the universe will eternally label him evil and damn him for all eternity?  I have no answer.

 

If you're asking: Is he still a destructive force the human world would be better without?  The answer is.  Of course he is.  

 

I have never met a creature like Corypheus I can sympathize with... I don't empathize with Dexter, Walter White, Hannible or any other "victim of circumstance" because I believe that's total bullshit.

 

Corypheus has choices - he chooses to be some jilted tool bag hellbent on trying to relive his glory days like some loser jock stuck in high school.  He chooses to wage war on Thedas.  He chooses to kill the Divine.  He chooses to attack Haven.  He chooses to want to be a god. 

 

I will never understand people who empathize with cretins.  

[mat_mark]

He didn't ascend to Godhood via the non Golden City in the bleak future.

He raised a demon army , took control of Orlais etc...people fear him and call him a God.

But the Breach is getting out of hand , it's spreading , rifts and demons everywhere...that's why things are wrong.

And  Corynoob still spread red lyrium , using dissidents and prisoners to grow the stuff and kill and torture those who don't follow him.He's a dictator.

 

Anyway he wants Alexius to turn back time before the Breach so he can get the anchor .

 

 

Yeah, the future we see in Redcliffe is obviously not the one Corypheus envisioned though. He failed to achieve his goals there. He took over southern Thedas, but without the Inquisitor's anchor he couldn't become a god and the breach just widened and he and his followers slowly but surely lost control over the ever increasing numbers of demons. Therefore the demons took over most of thedas and even the Venatori are threatened by them now.

That's why Corypheus wants Alexuis to turn back time to before the breach happened. It's a not a future where Corypheus won, but one where the breach fucked up everything for everyone.

This is why "In Hushed Whispers" makes sense...

[Giton]

@Someonestolemyname:  If you're asking if the African soldier child is evil in the sense that the universe will eternally label him evil and damn him for all eternity?  I have no answer.

 

If you're asking: Is he still a destructive force the human world would be better without?  The answer is.  Of course he is.  

 

I have never met a creature like Corypheus I can sympathize with... I don't empathize with Dexter, Walter White, Hannible or any other "victim of circumstance" because I believe that's total bullshit.

 

Corypheus has choices - he chooses to be some jilted tool bag hellbent on trying to relive his glory days like some loser jock stuck in high school.  He chooses to wage war on Thedas.  He chooses to kill the Divine.  He chooses to attack Haven.  He chooses to want to be a god. 

 

I will never understand people who empathize with cretins.  

Oh, honey, no. You did not just compare Cory to a dudebrojock. 

 

Also he is not a sociopath a la Dexter/Hannibal, those are not analogous. He may be an over-reacher like Marlowe's heroes--there is a reason Marlowe's characters endure.

 

Anyway, if you really contextualize and think about the arc of the Corypheus's story, I don't see how you can land at jock who peaked in high school. You are missing the entire point.

[BoscoBread]

Oh, honey, no. You did not just compare Cory to a dudebrojock. 

 

Also he is not a sociopath a la Dexter/Hannibal, those are not analogous. He may be an over-reacher like Marlowe's heroes--there is a reason Marlowe's characters endure.

 

Anyway, if you really contextualize and think about the arc of the Corypheus's story, I don't see how you can land at jock who peaked in high school. You are missing the entire point.

I know the Notre Dame football team must have screamed "My god my god why have you foresaken me" a fair few times last season. Maybe it was like that. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Giton:  Right, he never peaked in high school.  He was too stupid when he was a magister - too craven for power - that he was willing to be duped by his god into carving a hole into the Fade and stepping into the Golden City.

 

I'm not missing the point of Corypheus - he's an analogue for ever "knowledge at all cost" moron that ever walked the earth - and much like them, he gets what he deserves... both when he turns into a Magister and when he returns to get his ass kicked. 

 

Besides - you're claim that I missed his deep meaning doesn't undermine the fact that everything he did was his choice... and his death was the consequence of them.  Nothing remarkable about him at all... just another megalomaniac. 

[Giton]

@Giton:  Right, he never peaked in high school.  He was too stupid when he was a magister - too craven for power - that he was willing to be duped by his god into carving a hole into the Fade and stepping into the Golden City.

 

I'm not missing the point of Corypheus - he's an analogue for ever "knowledge at all cost" moron that ever walked the earth - and much like them, he gets what he deserves... both when he turns into a Magister and when he returns to get his ass kicked. 

 

Besides - you're claim that I missed his deep meaning doesn't undermine the fact that everything he did was his choice... and his death was the consequence of them.  Nothing remarkable about him at all... just another megalomaniac. 

Please tell me that in Tevinter there are magical magister transformations a la Sailor Moon:

 

http://guardedlogic....ut-corys-sailor

[lordsaren101]

Corypheus is a tragic character. A great man who fell far from greatness. I still preferred him to the Inquisitor however.

[MisterJB]

the stupidity that has placed Thedas in dire straights to begin with.

If you really think about it, Corypheus is the one responsible for the "dire straits" he believes Thedas to be in.

Without the First Blight, it's possible Andraste would have been defeated in combat and before she achieved independence for the South. And without the Darkspawn, the Old Gods might still be alive. Imprisoned, but alive.