416 réponses à ce sujet

[Shevy]

While the HoF is the hero Thedas deserves, I don't want a physical cameo of him/her - especially not with voice over. For me s/he is the best and most loved protagonist of the three because of the lack of a voice and the other things that come by using a muted protagonist. That allowed for more headcanon and thus roleplaying than with the other two. By giving a physical cameo - voiced or not - the risk of ruining this feeling towards her/him is too high for me. A neutral glimpse without a lot of screentime would be okay, cause this could be done without giving him a more defined personality. But then, do I need a physical cameo for ~ 10 seconds? No!

[Jaison1986]

I agree, bringing back the warden would boost sales. I mean, what fan wouldn't be excited to see their old protagonist return? Besides, if they really hate the idea of the warden coming back that much, they should have made the ultimate sacrifice the only possible outcome. Don't give us an option to save the warden's life and then expect us to simply forget they had ever existed. What's the point?

[Heimdall]

I agree, bringing back the warden would boost sales. I mean, what fan wouldn't be excited to see their old protagonist return?

Aside from myself and over half the people on this thread?

[Jaison1986]

Aaide from myself and over half the people on this thread?

 

Oh? Since when the people of this forum represent the entire Dragon age player-base?

[cindercatz]

The Warden Commander is not dead, canon, because whether it's the HoF or the Orlesian, a Warden PC survives DA:A, and DA:A takes place whether you played it or not like every other dlc. So whether you made the ultimate sacrifice or not has no bearing on whether a Warden appearance or dlc applies correctly to your personal canon. One or the other Warden Commander always survives. The customizability and variability of who that character is, their background, status, views, and relationships are the whole point in bringing them back. That's what makes it so worth doing. To actually have this character many of us designed to continue on active in the story and fullfilling a role in the narrative other than 'player avatar #204'. That's what makes it cool. It would give us a tangible effect on the characters populating the world. It gives us some real ownership of the ongoing story and some characters in it, instead of breaking suspension of disbelief like it does now. As is, it's like a third of the story beats that should be there are missing. That's how this slight of hand offscreen shuffle feels.

 

This idea that they should never appear is the same as saying they should all be dead, because the effect is the same, permanent absence from the story whether they should be present or not. And this sentiment of not wanting to see player rage on the boards baffles me. Where do people get that idea? Barring an insta-death or just plain underwhelming cloak and helmet scene, what do people seriously have to complain about if they show? If we can define their stances, choose a voice, and design the character in the CC, the character would be what we make it, no more difficult to write dialogue or design cutscenes for than any other character. It's more than feasible to do it right, it's not cost prohibitive, it allows a much more natural narrative flow, actually gives real weight to our choices, and would make for some truly epic and dramatic moments if they treat it seriously. Done right, there is no downside. And it can absolutely be done right. The devs would just have to accept a character they don't have full control of's constituent parts running around as a major npc, or shifting perspective again for a dlc. But that's the appeal.

[X Equestris]

The way I see it, bringing back the Warden can only end badly. People would complain about how their Warden would never say something, or do such and such, and then they would whine at Bioware for eternity. And if the appearance is so brief that the Warden never says or does anything, why even bother bringing them back?

[sjsharp2011]

Or just use the voice actors who did the battle shouts?

Not sure that wou8ld wor5k either given one of them is no longer with us(Robin Sachs that is) Not sure about the others but if the other's are talented enough it could happen. I think we're really wasting our time thinking about it though. As I think Bioware would rather introduce us to new characters than constantly bring back old ones.

[cindercatz]

The way I see it, bringing back the Warden can only end badly. People would complain about how their Warden would never say something, or do such and such, and then they would whine at Bioware for eternity. And if the appearance is so brief that the Warden never says or does anything, why even bother bringing them back?

That's why we need the ability to define their stances and general disposition. Then in a given scene or a given line, it just checks the character profile (should be a Keep thing, but for this game, just a checklist questionaire at CC would work great, since imports are already baked in), sees it's option A,B,C for the relevant subject or action, and you get a scene consistent with the character you built. There's plenty of room for surprises without contradicting our characters, and voila, that's the magic trick. Not any more difficult to develope than any other random scene, and not much more expensive. But it takes off the shackles weighing everything down now.

 

Honestly, people are jumping at shadows. The problem with Hawke (I liked the appearance, but for people complaining) was that they made a choice to consciously disregard some people's character motivations and restrict our input as co-creators of the character, not because they had to or because it was too expensive, but because they wanted to shoehorn Hawke into that role as a counterweight to the Warden thematically via bloodmagic, and because they undervalued the appearance of former PCs in the first place (hence decisions to exclude any DA2 LI cameos in place of some other character, restricting alternative dialogue, absence of alternate letters from the Warden by player choice, etc.) There's also the problem of assuming expectations to include every LI or exclude them all any time a former PC shows up, but it should be the other way around. If an LI character shows up, then the expectation is to also see the former PC, because their absence doesn't make sense and leaves the story gapped like swiss cheese. If a character has no reason to be there, don't force it. If they do, then get 'em on screen. If we know PCs can show up like any other character game to game, then there's not the same pressure to be everything to all people all at once. It's a storytelling paradigm shift.

[Aren]

Can't believe it after 6 years people are still complaining about HoF coming back even if for Bioware s/he is an absolute Ultimate Sacrifice, i had enough of all of this worshippers of the HoF .

Why don't you ask for a more compelling story and for another great main character and companions instead,is not the HoF who is a great character (s/he is a blank state) it's the story who forge the Hero not the contrary.

Let this character disappear into the Sunset or be an Ultimate Sacrifice.

Sorry for the rant but i'm bit sickened for all of those whiny topics that are here since the 2010.

 

Ps

Thedas does not revolve around your god/godess HoF

[X Equestris]

That's why we need the ability to define their stances and general disposition. Then in a given scene or a given line, it just checks the character profile (should be a Keep thing, but for this game, just a checklist questionaire at CC would work great, since imports are already baked in), sees it's option A,B,C for the relevant subject or action, and you get a scene consistent with the character you built. There's plenty of room for surprises without contradicting our characters, and voila, that's the magic trick. Not any more difficult to develope than any other random scene, and not much more expensive. But it takes off the shackles weighing everything down now.

I love how people say something isn't difficult when they've never done it before. People whined about Hawke's personality, dialogue, and actions, and Hawke at least had broad personality categories. Even if that system is put in place, people will complain, especially considering how some people feel about the Warden.

[Jaison1986]

I love how people say something isn't difficult when they've never done it before. People whined about Hawke's personality, dialogue, and actions, and Hawke at least had broad personality categories. Even if that system is put in place, people will complain, especially considering how some people feel about the Warden.

 

The only complaint I would make about Hawke in Inquisition is that the writer got lazy and gave him/her too much neutral dialogue. Wereas when Hawke spoke with their actual tone, it felt perfectly  in character.

[cronshaw]

Oh? Since when the people of this forum represent the entire Dragon age player-base?

I guess only when they agree with you

[Jaison1986]

I guess only when they agree with you

 

That's an pretty vague argument, considering it goes both ways. Besides, I never said my opinion is the general one of the fandom. I merely call out when people say that they don't want the warden back, they act as if they speak on the behalf of everyone. What proof they have that the majority holds the same opinion as them? 

[Sunnie]

Ok, so a tally of sorts so far...

 

Yes = 41

No = 46

*Other = 17

     *Other are those who were ambivalent or conditional, IOW, could be seen as either yes or no from different perspectives.

 

 

So it looks like the NO are edging out the YES, and there's a ton of crap in between all these NO/YES posts.

[cindercatz]

I love how people say something isn't difficult when they've never done it before. People whined about Hawke's personality, dialogue, and actions, and Hawke at least had broad personality categories. Even if that system is put in place, people will complain, especially considering how some people feel about the Warden.

I love how people assume other people don't know what they're talking about. lol

The only people I've ever even seen put up the 'People will rage!' or 'It's impossible!' arguments are people that don't want to see the character in the first place. So it's really 'I'm not interested, so no.' And usually those people are also people that are first person RPGers, so don't understand the appeal, and/or people who see each game as stand alone, best unburdened by previous games, not as an ongoing, serialized story. I'm the opposite. I like continuity, natural story and character progression, and third person roleplaying, so I design my characters as recurring cast members, and always will. If DA doesn't ever fully commit to the whole 'Your world! Your characters! Your story!' thing, I don't see the point. The story's already breaking down because of this reluctance on their part to prove you guys wrong.

 

edit: @Aren

Man, nobody worships the HoF. A better story is exactly what we want. What makes the HoF the best protag so far imo are the origins themselves, and yes, the stronger story around them. But if you have characters being constantly (in)conveniently shunted off for meta reasons (that really don't have much weight to begin with btw), that blows holes the size of Texas in your story. I don't necessarily want to even play the HoF again beyond a possible dlc/expansion, but I do want them to show up when the story calls for it (like DA:I does) like any other character, and their progression to continue. Give us origins and a tighter story again, and a new PC could certainly match or surpass the Warden. And I'd want that character to remain active too.

 

edit 2: And I'm done for the thread. I've gone into it a lot more before. Just tired of seeing the same old excuses. Have fun.

edit3: Thanks for the tally. ^^

[Aren]

Warden is my favourite character, but i would like to have another great protagonist, maybe even another Grey Warden instead of someone who is already overpowered and byond any challenge.

[Abyss108]

Nope, hated the warden, and there's no way for Bioware to write them that will fit everyone.

 

Give me new, more interesting characters.

[Darkstarr11]

I say bring them back, voiced.  Look, we have four VAs over four races and two genders.  It works.  Give us the chance to pick a VA when we design the face, like we did with Hawke.  While hoping for a DLC that would let us have the Warden, the Champion, AND the Inquisitor is more than we could hope for (seriously, that would just be...friggin' awesome...really...three of the best in all of Thedas, together?  Totally awesome), still having one with a voiced Warden would rock.  No, their voice might now match exactly, but in time, I think it'll work.  What about that VA from the Sacred Ashes video?  That's how I imagine my Lord Cousland to sound. 

 

I remember hearing Dilbert's voice for the first time.  Now, I can't unhear that voice.  Or Dogbert's...or any of them.  Lorenzo Snow as Garfield.  There are thousands of others.  Stephen Fry as the Chesire Cat.  Any of the roles that Tony Jay voiced.  Or any by Shoreh Agdashloo (sorry, love her voice  ).  So many voices that we grow attached to.

 

Let us grow attached to the Wardens.  Bioware has a great track record.  TRUST YOUR FANS...ya never know, it might work out.

[X Equestris]

I love how people assume other people don't know what they're talking about. lol
The only people I've ever even seen put up the 'People will rage!' or 'It's impossible!' arguments are people that don't want to see the character in the first place. So it's really 'I'm not interested, so no.' And usually those people are also people that are first person RPGers, so don't understand the appeal, and/or people who see each game as stand alone, best unburdened by previous games, not as an ongoing, serialized story. I'm the opposite. I like continuity, natural story and character progression, and third person roleplaying, so I design my characters as recurring cast members, and always will. If DA doesn't ever fully commit to the whole 'Your world! Your characters! Your story!' thing, I don't see the point. The story's already breaking down because of this reluctance on their part to prove you guys wrong.

I'd like to see the Warden back, but I doubt the result would match up with the expectations. And in any case, Weekes has no intention of bringing the Warden back.

And great job with generalizations, by the way. I don't know who "you guys" is.

[AlanC9]

Oh? Since when the people of this forum represent the entire Dragon age player-base?

We don't. Every time we have objective data about the player-base to compare to what people on this board say we do, we're wildly different.

But I'm not sure what this proves. If anything, I'd expect that bringing the Warden back would be even less popular among DAI players generally. It's unlikely that more than maybe a third of DAI players have even played DAO.

[Lumix19]

Not sure that wou8ld wor5k either given one of them is no longer with us(Robin Sachs that is) Not sure about the others but if the other's are talented enough it could happen. I think we're really wasting our time thinking about it though. As I think Bioware would rather introduce us to new characters than constantly bring back old ones.

There's a lot of them though and that list includes Gideon Emery and Mark Meer so I think they're all pretty talented. Yuri Lowenthal is the only other one I know and I like his work too.

[General TSAR]

I vote for burying him like BioWare buried Shepard. 

[Bail_Darilar]

The Warden should come back and should be voiced. Silent protagonists may work for PC's but not for NPC's especially when all interactable characters have voices. I also don't think it matters whether or not the Warden died or not since we know the events in Awakening still happened even if you didn't play it and it may have been an Orlesian Warden.

[Iakus]

I vote for burying him like BioWare buried Shepard. 

 

That's exactly why I don't want the Warden coming back. 

[Dyne-]

Ok, so a tally of sorts so far...

 

Yes = 41

No = 46

*Other = 17

     *Other are those who were ambivalent or conditional, IOW, could be seen as either yes or no from different perspectives.

 

 

So it looks like the NO are edging out the YES, and there's a ton of crap in between all these NO/YES posts.

So far I counted

 

Yes 49

No 41

Undecided 18

 

I just skimmed through it though so it is possible that I may have counted the same ones more than once, or just interpreted them differently.