416 réponses à ce sujet

[BMcDill]

Here is a thought..you can bring him/her back and keep the character mute.  The character did go in search of a cure.  I am sure a lot of fighting happened along the way.  Or he/she could be captured (saving your own Hero would be cool) and in that captivity tortured and made mute.  A lot of ways to bring the character back as a mute.

[MarcoNeves]

(to MarcoNeves) If the question is "should we bring back the HoF as a NON PLAYABLE CHARACTER, or not?" then you might want to change not only the title of this thread but also the opening post since the question posed in both is "What does everyone think about bringing the Warden back as a voiced character?"

Point taken, you are correct. I made the changes to the title and text.

[Just Here For Popcorns]

   But if you're gonna say it, say it with STYLE!

 

[Brockololly]

Here is a thought..you can bring him/her back and keep the character mute.  The character did go in search of a cure.  I am sure a lot of fighting happened along the way.  Or he/she could be captured (saving your own Hero would be cool) and in that captivity tortured and made mute.  A lot of ways to bring the character back as a mute.

 

Except the Warden is not a damn mute. They're not voiced but they are perfectly capable of speaking to other characters. Non-voiced does not equal mute.

 

 

I just think this whole set in stone law that the Warden can never show up in a game ever again from Laidlaw because the developers cannot figure out how to deal with the voice issue is just absolutely ludicrous. As I've said, if they retire all the other Origins companions and romances from the world stage, then sure, let the Warden walk off into the sunset with them. But with Inquisition, the developers practically brought back everyone under the sun and wrote up a decent excuse as to why a living Warden wouldn't show up. But next time? If they keep bringing back old companions and romances from Origins adn keep dredging up excuses as to why the Warden is conspicuously absent? That's far more damaging to the feeling of a coherent world state than the Warden showing up with a player chosen voice.

 

Mike says that "The Warden is and was an awesome character, and I don't want to risk "wrecking" those memories, even unintentionally" simply by adding in a voice potentially. And yet earlier on in that Kotaku Q&A, Mike and Mark both say how "absolutely fascinating" the notion of having multiple protagonists in a game would be. Ummm... hello!? Provided the HoF/Warden Commander would have a story reason to show up, why not do it from a multiple protagonist standpoint? If the voice issue is the crippling nonstarter to that idea to Mike, then wouldn't having the Warden as a brief playable PC be one solution? BioWare and the developers are in a fast lane to ruining or "wrecking" those memories by basically making any living Wardens effectively play dead in world states where they're alive but forever offscreen, meanwhile everyone else close to the Warden has no problem showing up again and developing amnesia with respect to their history with the still living Warden.

 

 

Again, I just find this all incredibly frustrating from a story standpoint that the developers seem content to bring back every character in the DA world but a Warden that survived Origins.To me, what makes companions interesting in BioWare games is the relationships they forge with the respective player character. So while it was nice to see Morrigan or Alistair or Leliana again in Inquisition, its not even remotely the same feeling as it would have been had I been playing as my Warden interacting with Morrigan, Alistair or Leliana again.

 

And that is just amplified when the developers thrust these old companions into plot critical moments, where as the player, my feelings towards those old companions are directly put into conflict with how my new Player Character can act, since the new PC doesn't have the same history with those old companions. So a choice like leaving Hawke or Loghain/Alistair/Stroud in the Fade is maybe tough for me as a player but its not really an emotionally wrenching decision for my Inquisitior since he barely knows these guys. Same with the Well of Sorrows- as a player I don't want anything bad to happen to Morrigan but my Inquisitor barely knows her.  The game is basically forcing metagaming scenarios on me where my feelings as a player come into conflict with what's logically available to my PC. So instead of forcing old companions into this new game in plot critical moments, why not use the new companions that are most developed through the new PC? Inquisition rarely does this and its baffling to me. Instead they're content to dredge up old companions and force them down one sized fits all character development paths that overwrite their relationships with the Warden from Origins.

 

I really don't get it.

[In Exile]

The multiple protagonist this is just them setting people up for co-op. They will not have multiple SP PCs. Which, unrelatedly, might kill the franchise.

They don't want to add in a voice because there will be riots and they have no plans to go back to silent PC. It there wasn't a voice issue the HOF would be back as fast as Hawke was back. And they'd give nary a thought to canon. Not wrecking the HOF is their best response to trying to avoid the insane hatefest that would follow any attempt to reintroduce the HOF.

As to your last point I don't think Bioware is responsible for your inability to compartmentalize and RP, though you did set out a good argument for why multiple PCs can't work in a game.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

d yet BioWare is already potentially ruining any "walk off into the sunset" endings you had post Origins with the Warden and their Love Interest by constantly bringing back those old love interests like Leliana, Morrigan or Alistair and thrusting them into main plot roles where they seemingly act without any regard to their past and their relationship with the Warden.

Leliana becoming Divine? A romanced Warden never brought up during that process. Morrigan potentially going Full Stupid in service of the plot and blindly drinking from the Well of Sorrows despite potentially having a child and de-facto husband? Kieran is brushed off in one sentence like Morrigan is some deadbeat mother ("Oh, he's a strong 10 year old. He'll deal") and a romanced Warden's relationship with Morrigan is not only not brought up at the Well of Sorrows nor does any of that relationship influence Morrigan's decision making there. Nor is any of that brought up during the whole family drama with Flemeth. And Alistair potentially dying in the Fade? Nope, no mention of a romanced Warden.

Urgh, so much this. It's more than a little bit difficult letting my Warden go when BioWare keeps bringing back her lover (Leliana, in my case) while shoving her off-screen, making me hesitant to ever get attached to any potential ending between the two of them because there's a 50/50 chance it'll just be rendered moot in the next game by some arbitrary excuse for seperation anyway.

If they're not bringing the Warden back, at least stop bringing back the people important to them as well, so I can stop wishing they could actually be involved in their lives still.

[King Killoth]

Bring back the warden and let us choose between four voice two for each gender just like the Inquisitor and give us the same CC as the Inquisitor and Hawke. shortly after you finish your edit you selects your specializations and get popped out with some good warden gear and go off on the story

[S Seraff]

Yes

[Bunny]

I enjoyed letting companion characters rescue the HoF from Fort Drakon in Captured! Maybe a similar quest involving the next DA game's new companion characters and returning DAO characters meeting up somewhere with the new protagonist and the HoF could provide a happy medium? This way, there's interaction between DAO characters and the HoF and maybe some long-expected closure.

[FaWa]

Let people choose a voice and maybe personality, if they brought Hawke back they can bring the Warden back...

[DuskWanderer]

It bears repeating, but it is an utterly terrible idea, given that the Warden could be dead. It's a spit in the face to people who made that choice. The voice thing is an issue, the "what we did to the Warden" is also an issue, but what it comes down to in a nutshell is two reasons: He might be dead, and that no one will like it. 

 

People already disliked the way Hawke was handled in Inquisition, despite the fact that Hawke could have his face customized, had the same voice, and the same personality. They disliked the fact that he "had to hate blood magic" despite potentially being one, they hated the fact that "he was concerned about the people I didn't care for", or whatever the reason could be. 

 

Why would you want BioWARE to do that again with the Warden? Are you truly so obsessed with one character you think all of Thedas revolves around this guy? There is literally nothing wrong with bringing back the other characters because the other characters have really important tasks to do: Leliana and Morrigan aren't going to drop everything just to be with the Warden. All it's going to do is cause cries of "Defiled Forever!" or "Noes! It's not my Warden!" Don't deny that it is what you'll say if BioWARE doesn't make the decisions you want them to make. As proof of this, look at how many people in this topic refer to "my" Warden. 

 

"My" is a possessive pronoun, it states ownership. And it's true, the Warden (as well as Hawke and the Inquisitor) are created by the player, they get attached because they choose what is appealing. So many different "my"s, and no two will ever be alike. Some people would be happy with BioWARE's choice, but others will not. We already saw this. Why would you want the same thing to happen again? Did you learn nothing from the first time?

 

tl-dr? Warden could be dead, or if not, people would be pissed.

[jedidotflow]

This is what the thread title is:

Bringing back a "voiced" Hero of Ferelden NPC: Yes, or No?

 

My answer: No. 

 

Don't get your underwear in a bunch over another pointless HoF thread.

[Steppenwolf]

Let people choose a voice and maybe personality, if they brought Hawke back they can bring the Warden back...

 

Hawke was already voiced and his/her personality could only fall into 3 distinct options. The Warden is "voiced" by each player and the personality is defined by each player because the lines you choose have the inflection and meaning you assign them, not what an actor assigns them. And the Warden had more response options than Hawke so his/her personality could be much more complex. than polite, sarcastic or stern.

It's really apples and oranges.

[Brockololly]

The multiple protagonist this is just them setting people up for co-op. They will not have multiple SP PCs. Which, unrelatedly, might kill the franchise.

They don't want to add in a voice because there will be riots and they have no plans to go back to silent PC. It there wasn't a voice issue the HOF would be back as fast as Hawke was back. And they'd give nary a thought to canon. Not wrecking the HOF is their best response to trying to avoid the insane hatefest that would follow any attempt to reintroduce the HOF.

As to your last point I don't think Bioware is responsible for your inability to compartmentalize and RP, though you did set out a good argument for why multiple PCs can't work in a game.

 

Why would having multiple PC's "kill the franchise"? BioWare is clearly from day 1 trying to ape Game of Thrones. And Game of Thrones' story works in no small part because they have multiple POVs of the world from the all various locations in the world. That helps flesh out the world and the characters. Its more jarring to me forcing somebody like Hawke or the Inquisitor into a Grey Warden-centric storyline just because as opposed to using an established Grey Warden PC to deal with Grey Warden stuff.

 

In the Kotaku interview, Laidlaw already even mentions multiple PC's in how GTAV used them. And hell, The Witcher 3 is going to be using them too. Its just another way for BioWare to expand their storytelling repertoire and bring back in a playable fashion old PCs for limited bits of relevant story.

 

 

As to the last bit, my point is more along the lines of why did BioWare not use any of the companions in Inquisition for the big plot choices? Instead they toss in old companions, romances no less, where they act in ways that hold basically zero reactivity towards their still living Warden significant other. And to me, if BioWare keeps going down that road, that's far more damaging to the HoF and the Warden's story than simply adding in a voice.

 

Urgh, so much this. It's more than a little bit difficult letting my Warden go when BioWare keeps bringing back her lover (Leliana, in my case) while shoving her off-screen, making me hesitant to ever get attached to any potential ending between the two of them because there's a 50/50 chance it'll just be rendered moot in the next game by some arbitrary excuse for seperation anyway.

If they're not bringing the Warden back, at least stop bringing back the people important to them as well, so I can stop wishing they could actually be involved in their lives still.

 

Right. It's why I don't quite understand the sentiment I've heard from Weekes and some of the other developers on how they think the Warden was able to walk off into the sunset with their romance and thus, their story is done. That would be all well and true except for the fact that 3 of the 4 Origins romances showed back up again in Inquisition and all can get embroiled in the main plot and have significant things happen to each of them without any reactivity from their respective romances. All the while they have the Warden off on some life or death quest. None of that screams of closure to me.

 

Like with Leliana, its doubly annoying since her whole character development arc in Origins is basically played out in reverse in Inquisition and potentially overwritten by the Inquisitor. Add in how the whole Divine election process has no reactivity towards her being in a romance and that kind of sucks.

 

I just have the feeling it will really suck with Morrigan's romance if BioWare is so beholden to the idea of the Warden forever being mysteriously absent and offscreen because I'm guessing they're going deep with some godhood plotline for her. So she'll inevitably get tossed back into the main story beats with some new PC and conveniently develop amnesia regarding the HoF and Kieran when it comes to big plot moments or choices.

[In Exile]

Why would having multiple PC's "kill the franchise"? BioWare is clearly from day 1 trying to ape Game of Thrones. And Game of Thrones' story works in no small part because they have multiple POVs of the world from the all various locations in the world. That helps flesh out the world and the characters. Its more jarring to me forcing somebody like Hawke or the Inquisitor into a Grey Warden-centric storyline just because as opposed to using an established Grey Warden PC to deal with Grey Warden stuff.

 

In the Kotaku interview, Laidlaw already even mentions multiple PC's in how GTAV used them. And hell, The Witcher 3 is going to be using them too. Its just another way for BioWare to expand their storytelling repertoire and bring back in a playable fashion old PCs for limited bits of relevant story.

 

 

As to the last bit, my point is more along the lines of why did BioWare not use any of the companions in Inquisition for the big plot choices? Instead they toss in old companions, romances no less, where they act in ways that hold basically zero reactivity towards their still living Warden significant other. And to me, if BioWare keeps going down that road, that's far more damaging to the HoF and the Warden's story than simply adding in a voice.

 

The reference about killing the SP was for Co-Op, not multiple PCs per se. I think there are other reasons why multiple self-created PCs don't work, but largely those have to do with either having to keep them all in separate parts of the world the entire game or getting ridiculous nonsense conversations where you as the player are just talking to yourself.

 

TW3 is a poor example here (and so is even something like Suikoden III or GTA 5) because all of these are pre-set characters. TW3 in particular has one main: Geralt, with Ciri playing a minor role in the grand scale.

 

To have proper dual PCs is something else entirely. You have to have a story that now turns on two characters. Neither is the focal point of the story. So fine, we try it that way. That means essentially having a plot that happens over multiple locations (see the GOT game out now). That can work too, though now you've split up your writing budget and party over two locations. If we have this whole group converge, we're suddenly back to nonsense three-way conversations where you're on the same side.

 

The plot as Bioware writes it doesn't work with multiple PCs. That's 8 voices if they go the DAI route, plus a need for multiple companions, now you have to deal with things like two separate bars of NPC approval, two separate romance triggers, players hitting on their other PC's LI, people wanting to RP PCs that make opposite plot choices (how does that get sorted out with unkillable PCs?)

 

There is no way this ever works without a railroad and pre-set characters, and it's a disaster in a party-based game.

 

No, Bioware is talking about Co-Op for the story, which is a different kind of disaster.

 

As to the old plot reference, Bioware likes to bring up fan favourite characters and they presumably have the same view on them as I do, which is that my attachment to them as me is different from the characters I play in game and I don't somehow need the same perspective to enjoy them. Beyond that, there's no difficulty in RPing what the Inquisitor would do vs. the HOF. But if you feel like you're running into these problems, well what happens if PC#1 has to choose what to do with PC#2s LI?

[Brockololly]

TW3 is a poor example here (and so is even something like Suikoden III or GTA 5) because all of these are pre-set characters. TW3 in particular has one main: Geralt, with Ciri playing a minor role in the grand scale.

 

Point being though, if BioWare had some sort of multi-PC approach, my thinking isn't that it would be for the full game but maybe one questline. So if instead of getting some event told via a codex entry or cutscene, just cut to the said event with a more fixed PC. That way you can cut down on the Small World Syndrome that plagues DA by having 1 new  PC globe trot with the same dozen or so people. So if you had the whole cure the Calling quest, and if it was deemed sufficiently story relevant, instead of the Inquisitor getting involved, just cut to either the HoF or Warden Commander. Not as fixed as somebody like Geralt but they're both Wardens doing Warden stuff.

 

Really, what I'd be thinking is having it probably more like what they're doing with Ciri in TW3. Have another PC that offers an active POV on some other side of a story instead of having to tell that piece of story second hand or through passive cutscenes.

 

 

To have proper dual PCs is something else entirely. You have to have a story that now turns on two characters. Neither is the focal point of the story. So fine, we try it that way. That means essentially having a plot that happens over multiple locations (see the GOT game out now). That can work too, though now you've split up your writing budget and party over two locations. If we have this whole group converge, we're suddenly back to nonsense three-way conversations where you're on the same side.

 

That's not really what I'd expect, realistically. I think it would be great and potentially awesome if BIoWare tried some sort of Starcraft campaign style storytelling where you had some mini-campaigns from different POVs. But what I'd want would be more akin to almost what you had in TW2 where you controlled Henselt for a brief portion of the game. Do something slightly more involved than that just for a story section or smaller questline so as to offer some active involvement from the player instead of cutscenes. Or hell, take Alien:Isolation. One of the best parts of that game involved a point where you take control of a different player character through a playable flashback sequence.

 

 

The plot as Bioware writes it doesn't work with multiple PCs. That's 8 voices if they go the DAI route, plus a need for multiple companions, now you have to deal with things like two separate bars of NPC approval, two separate romance triggers, players hitting on their other PC's LI, people wanting to RP PCs that make opposite plot choices (how does that get sorted out with unkillable PCs?)

 

Sure, and I'm not really advocating for a full on game wholly doing multiple PCs with multiple full fledged parties. But allowing for brief questlines to be completed with old, existing PC's fulfilling some established role to expand the scope of the world? Sure.

 

 

[dsl08002]

The multiple protagonist this is just them setting people up for co-op. They will not have multiple SP PCs. Which, unrelatedly, might kill the franchise.
They don't want to add in a voice because there will be riots and they have no plans to go back to silent PC. It there wasn't a voice issue the HOF would be back as fast as Hawke was back. And they'd give nary a thought to canon. Not wrecking the HOF is their best response to trying to avoid the insane hatefest that would follow any attempt to reintroduce the HOF.
As to your last point I don't think Bioware is responsible for your inability to compartmentalize and RP, though you did set out a good argument for why multiple PCs can't work in a game.

I think that the voice factor is a bit overated. Yes if bioware would choose a voice for us then yes it would be some outrage but ME3 set that bar very high so i dont think it will reach the same effect.

If they let us choose a selection of 4 voices of each race then it would be more likley to find a voice you are happy with. YES it would take many resources for it but it could work. But then its the personality problem that kicks in for an NPC.

So to summorize: selection of minimum 4 voices for each race and warden as PC. that is the only way it could work. Yes it would take some investment.

[JadeDragon]

 

Like with Leliana, its doubly annoying since her whole character development arc in Origins is basically played out in reverse in Inquisition and potentially overwritten by the Inquisitor. Add in how the whole Divine election process has no reactivity towards her being in a romance and that kind of sucks.

Out of all the characters they brought back Leliana to me was the worst. Not because I dont like her, in fact she was my main rogue in origins and part of my main party. But because with her character they are basically saying this is how Leliana is supposed to be after origins. Some wardens did not Harden her and some actually killed her (not me for either). But the point is not only is she alive no matter what which I accepted, she is harden no matter what. Then the Inquisitor can soften her up again and overrule the wardens decision. Sure you dont have to try to soften her and leave her harden which I did but the main point is, we have 9 other companions why cant they get harden or soften. Why cant we do that with Josie, Sera or anybody else? We have new companions yet most of the main plot the old companions are more involved and then people wonder why some people felt closer to there companions in DA:O then DA:I. Stuff like this doesn't help everybody feel connected to the new direction Bioware wants to go it in fact reminds us of the past which is well and all if equal or greater focus was also put on the new characters not less than.

[KaiserShep]

Out of all the characters they brought back Leliana to me was the worst. Not because I dont like her, in fact she was my main rogue in origins and part of my main party. But because with her character they are basically saying this is how Leliana is supposed to be after origins. Some wardens did not Harden her and some actually killed her (not me for either). But the point is not only is she alive no matter what which I accepted, she is harden no matter what. Then the Inquisitor can soften her up again and overrule the wardens decision. Sure you dont have to try to soften her and leave her harden which I did but the main point is, we have 9 other companions why cant they get harden or soften. Why cant we do that with Josie, Sera or anybody else? We have new companions yet most of the main plot the old companions are more involved and then people wonder why some people felt closer to there companions in DA:O then DA:I. Stuff like this doesn't help everybody feel connected to the new direction Bioware wants to go it in fact reminds us of the past which is well and all if equal or greater focus was also put on the new characters not less than.

 

I do believe that BioWare should have introduced a new character to serve as the Right Hand of the Divine in DA2. It was fun having the amusing dialogue with Isabela if the Warden and she got into that threesome (or foursome), but I think it would have been better to simply leave her character behind in the Warden's story and get someone new, and without troublesome ties to past stories, and of course, to ensure that decisions made in Origins remain intact.

[Steppenwolf]

I think that the voice factor is a bit overated. Yes if bioware would choose a voice for us then yes it would be some outrage but ME3 set that bar very high so i dont think it will reach the same effect.

So the bar is simply "****** players off slightly less than ME3 did and you're golden"? That's ridiculous.
 

If they let us choose a selection of 4 voices of each race then it would be more likley to find a voice you are happy with. YES it would take many resources for it but it could work. But then its the personality problem that kicks in for an NPC.
So to summorize: selection of minimum 4 voices for each race and warden as PC. that is the only way it could work. Yes it would take some investment.

Also ridiculous. That's 12 voice actors playing the lead role. Twelve. Do you have any idea how expensive and time consuming that would be? And why would the voices even need to be different for each race? They didn't do that with Inquisition. Not to mention the fact that the Warden can't be Qunari so players making new characters would feel like they have fewer options than they did in Inquisition.

[Yriss]

After reading some of the following arguments and discussions, I move my position from "Maybe" to "No."

 

I still maintain that if they brought the warden back with a voice, I wouldn't be bothered. But if push comes to shove, I'd rather him/her not make an appearance.

 

I vaguely remember someone saying that the devs/writers had wanted the world of Dragon Age to be the "star" and we are just discovering the world through various characters and points of view. I'd want them to stick to that. Especially in light of the discoveries regarding the world and gods in DA:I, I'm now more interested in figuring out the mystery and truth of Thedas. If the warden has a role to play in that, then fine. But they could also be re-introduced as dead in a Deep Roads cave-in in a super heroic attempt to save the group and then other wardens continue the work.

[pinkjellybeans]

No. And I can't understand why people can't just let this go. 

 

They brought back Hawke who always had a voice and a set personality and even then there were people upset at how they were portrayed in DAI. There were even people disappointed at a letter the HoF sent. So yeah, I can only imagine what would happen if they brought back the HoF in the flesh.

[Sunnie]

No. And I can't understand why people can't just let this go.

Because

[Toasted Llama]

Because

Because your argument is still loading?