51 réponses à ce sujet

[Abelas Forever!]

I wasn't talking about representation or equal options. I was talking about minimum amount of LIs so that gay male/lesbian/straight male and female PCs can have at least one option and that can be achieved if there is one lesbian, one gay man, one straight woman and one straight man OR that there is one bisexual man and one bisexual woman. They are options like choosing your class or gender.  To some people romances are very important part of the game. Me included. Why not give them options?

 

I don't see how reducing options would make things more authentic. In real life you can flirt with everybody if you want to. You can start a relationship with an older man or woman if you like. How is it more authentic if those options don't exist?  Are you sure you really want that  romances are more authentic? You know. Experience cheating and problems in a relationship? How love fades?  There is also the thing that the whole setting of ME universe is not that realistic because you are the only person who can save the world. There are aliens who are quite similar to humans. How realistic is that? So romances which you don't have to play are quite minor things comparing to those.

[wright1978]

Personally i'm not a fan of non crew romances, think they are highly substandard. Spending time with LI is a pretty integral part of the romance experience imo.

[DraGGon2k]

I wasn't talking about representation or equal options. I was talking about minimum amount of LIs so that gay male/lesbian/straight male and female PCs can have at least one option and that can be achieved if there is one lesbian, one gay man, one straight woman and one straight man OR that there is one bisexual man and one bisexual woman. They are options like choosing your class or gender.  To some people romances are very important part of the game. Me included. Why not give them options?

 

I don't see how reducing options would make things more authentic. In real life you can flirt with everybody if you want to. You can start a relationship with an older man or woman if you like. How is it more authentic if those options don't exist?  Are you sure you really want that  romances are more authentic? You know. Experience cheating and problems in a relationship? How love fades?  There is also the thing that the whole setting of ME universe is not that realistic because you are the only person who can save the world. There are aliens who are quite similar to humans. How realistic is that? So romances which you don't have to play are quite minor things comparing to those.

 

Even though there were a lof of LIs in DAI I think the romances were very good.

The "minimum" number would be 4 love interests, which is what I already used in my example(2 in crew, 2 outside of crew). But even if it was less, as I said, not everybody has to be represented. To me that is just too much bowing down to fans / pandering. No it's not authentic to me when half your crew is gay/bi and the rest are either fitness models or sexualized botox women with boob/ass armor(not that I didn't appreciated the Miranda Ass-Cam, but still it's pandering). It feels like instead of designing realistic, mature deep characters they go "Ok, this one for the dudebros, these for the lgbt crowd, this one for the tumblr fanfiction writers". Too much fanservice.

 

I mean just look at it. In ME1 there were 3 romance partners. Same in DA:O. These romances felt compelling and special as in more "unique". In DA:I it's 8, in ME3 it was 12(!). And it shows quality-wise imo. The josephine romance felt like something a 13yo girl would write in her diary. Diana Allers was pretty much a new low.

 

As for relationship problems/cheating -> Hell yes I'd want that, because it's something new that has barely been touched upon before.

 

 

 

Personally i'm not a fan of non crew romances, think they are highly substandard. Spending time with LI is a pretty integral part of the romance experience imo.

 

Obviously they wouldn't be substandard anymore if they got the proper attention. And I also disagree with them having to be constantly around you for it to be a good experience. You have a loved one in a city hub and go on a dangerous mission, maybe get captured and have to escape and a rather long way back home. I think the time apart would actually strengthen it(assuming it's been introduced well enough before so that you actually care). For me, I was always looking forward to the post-mission walking around Normandy and talking to people. So basically it would be sort of expanding on that.

[SolNebula]

Eh just give me my blue asari and I'm fine. Would prefer though to be squad members. I romanced Josephine in DAI and the entire interaction was kind of disappointing. Non-crew romances felt kind of second class.

[Abelas Forever!]

Minimum amount of LIs is 2 if they are both bisexuals. One man and one woman. I would rather see options for everybody so that you as a player can choose which LI you would like to romance. If that is fanservice then I don't see it as a bad thing. In fact I see it as way to enchance the experience of the story if you like that kind of thing.

 

I think Solas romance in DAI has potential to be the best romance ever made so my opinion is that the quality of the romances have improved. It seems that you didn't like some of the options which were given to you but it doesn't mean that quality of those romances were bad. They were just different. I saw Jospehine romance and it was lovely. I also saw Blackwall romance and I could never romance him. It doesn't mean that the romance was bad. It just means that I didn't like it. That's why I'm happy that there were others to romance. Even though Cullen and Solas romances have less romantic content they are still good romances.

 

If you like cheating then I suggest romancing Jacob.

[katamuro]

Eh just give me my blue asari and I'm fine. Would prefer though to be squad members. I romanced Josephine in DAI and the entire interaction was kind of disappointing. Non-crew romances felt kind of second class.

 

Yup me too, I chose her but every time I saw her walk or do anything but sit behind the desk the animation just felt wrong, her lines were a bit over the top. 

 

 

Minimum amount of LIs is 2 if they are both bisexuals. One man and one woman. I would rather see options for everybody so that you as a player can choose which LI you would like to romance. If that is fanservice then I don't see it as a bad thing. In fact I see it as way to enchance the experience of the story if you like that kind of thing.

 

I think Solas romance in DAI has potential to be the best romance ever made so my opinion is that the quality of the romances have improved. It seems that you didn't like some of the options which were given to you but it doesn't mean that quality of those romances were bad. They were just different. I saw Jospehine romance and it was lovely. I also saw Blackwall romance and I could never romance him. It doesn't mean that the romance was bad. It just means that I didn't like it. That's why I'm happy that there were others to romance. Even though Cullen and Solas romances have less romantic content they are still good romances.

 

If you like cheating then I suggest romancing Jacob.

 

I also do not see that as a bad thing. I do not understand why some people think that giving players more or less what they wanted is bad. But then again I do not understand people who play very hard games like Dark Souls and that new one on ps4. All I feel when playing them is annoyance. 

[Jaquio]

I think one way to resolve there being several LIs aboard the ship who are interested in the main character, is by having the protagonist's actions affect squad mate approval. Choosing dialogue or an action that opposes the Council for example might lock out a potential LI who has strong Council loyalties, or a Qurian might be locked out if dialogue is chosen indicating the Quarians got what they deserved in the Morning War. 

 

Another way to resolve that, and which has never really been a problem with the Mass Effect series, is by giving the potential LIs defined sexualities instead of all of them being available to protagonist of any gender.

 

If the devs go that route on any given playthrough you are going to have some of those options not interested either because of the main character's gender, or because of his or her actions or dialogue throughout the game. The pool of potential LIs on any single playthrough would be small. 

 

I definitely agree.  There needs to be more conflict between companions, and more locking out of romances and friendships based on what you do and what you say.

 

A great example is Fenris in DA2.  A former slave, owned by a Tevinter mage, who openly and actively hates magic and magic users.  Maybe he's bisexual, but you should under no circumstances be able to romance him if you're a mage.  He hates everything you are.  If you're a mage, he should be openly critical of you at least, and you should have to work like a dog just to keep him from bailing on you.

 

In an ME example, giving Veetor over to Cerberus at Freedom's Progress should lock you out of romance with Tali.  She hates Cerberus and you're basically turning one of her people over to them for "interrogation."  There should be no notification of this, but should you try to romance her, you should get a "I just can't trust you" response.  There are other examples of this throughout the games, for all of the other romances. 

[Abelas Forever!]

 

I also do not see that as a bad thing. I do not understand why some people think that giving players more or less what they wanted is bad. But then again I do not understand people who play very hard games like Dark Souls and that new one on ps4. All I feel when playing them is annoyance. 

I haven't even tried those games because I don't believe that I would like them.

 

In a way I understand why people want less romances. If there are less romances then the available resources can be used to make them even better. Probably true. But the resources can also be people so I would imagine (correct me if I'm wrong) that if the person who wrote character don't have enough time to write more content to that romance then nobody else can do that so the resources which are needed to make certain romances better are not  necessarily available.

 

If there are less options to choose from then there is also a greater change that not everybody likes their options. So adding content to just few romances isn't always a good thing. I think there is probably certain point where it's harder and harder to add more meaningful romantic content to romances unless it's an engagement, wedding, having children or some problems in a relationship. Interesting things to explore but not necessarily in one game. If the story continues across several games then getting married or problems in a relationship could be there. Although if problems in a relationship means that your partner cheats on you then I'm against it because I don't want to experience that in a game.

 

Less romances could also mean that there could be more content to friendships. Although if you have a good friendship with someone then I believe there don't need to be that much more content to make that friendship into romance and I believe that is the case in current romances. For example you can go shooting with Garrus even if you are not in a romantic relationship with him. There are just couple of different lines and a kissing scene which are different from friendship relationship.

[Random]

The "minimum" number would be 4 love interests, which is what I already used in my example(2 in crew, 2 outside of crew). But even if it was less, as I said, not everybody has to be represented. To me that is just too much bowing down to fans / pandering. No it's not authentic to me when half your crew is gay/bi and the rest are either fitness models or sexualized botox women with boob/ass armor(not that I didn't appreciated the Miranda Ass-Cam, but still it's pandering). It feels like instead of designing realistic, mature deep characters they go "Ok, this one for the dudebros, these for the lgbt crowd, this one for the tumblr fanfiction writers". Too much fanservice.

 

I mean just look at it. In ME1 there were 3 romance partners. Same in DA:O. These romances felt compelling and special as in more "unique". In DA:I it's 8, in ME3 it was 12(!). And it shows quality-wise imo. The josephine romance felt like something a 13yo girl would write in her diary. Diana Allers was pretty much a new low.

 

As for relationship problems/cheating -> Hell yes I'd want that, because it's something new that has barely been touched upon before.

 

 

 

 

Obviously they wouldn't be substandard anymore if they got the proper attention. And I also disagree with them having to be constantly around you for it to be a good experience. You have a loved one in a city hub and go on a dangerous mission, maybe get captured and have to escape and a rather long way back home. I think the time apart would actually strengthen it(assuming it's been introduced well enough before so that you actually care). For me, I was always looking forward to the post-mission walking around Normandy and talking to people. So basically it would be sort of expanding on that.

Eh, I don't consider it non-authentic. In high school, my social circle had about nine friends. About half of us came out of the closet as bi/pan/gay. 

[DraGGon2k]

Eh, I don't consider it non-authentic. In high school, my social circle had about nine friends. About half of us came out of the closet as bi/pan/gay. 

 

You realize that is just your experience? The odds for half your crew being gay or bi would be in the 0,#% area, just like you wouldn't have the other half running around with botox'd faces or wearing boob/ass armor or be fitness models. Less fanservice all around is what I'm asking for. Less space opera and a more mature, realistic experience.

 

But reading the posts here made me realize that sadly I seem to be simply in the minority. I want complex and mature relationships, realistic characters and actual choice & consequences. The majority seems to want less gameplay complexity and instead a contrived romance simulator with charicature characters and instant gratification everywhere. But that's valid I guess. Just saddens me a bit. Oh well, still got Witcher/PoE and possibly the new Deus Ex I guess.

 

 

If there are less options to choose from then there is also a greater change that not everybody likes their options.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. People are acting as if this is a romance simulator first and foremost that they HAVE to include 10 romances just so people don't get offended (offended by the [not-]inclusion of videogame romances, smh).

[Abelas Forever!]

What is mature and complex relationship? Relationship with Anderson or with Chakwas? Can you give me an example?

I like romances a lot but I'm also interested in more complex relationships. I also want that there is more consequences of the choices I have made but all those things can be achieved while there still is different romance options for different orientations.  Besides I think it's quite natural that the friendships can proggress into romantic relationships in a starship where you spend a lot of time with the same people and you get to know them quite well. For example you might not date people who are over 30 years older than you but in a place like starship it's possible that you might fall in love with that kind of person because you will have to spend time with that person and it gives a possibility to develop feelings.

I think you missed my point. I haven't been talking about that there should be 10 romances or that every sexual orientation should be represented. I have been talking about options to different orientations and what way that can be achieved. If you want less romances then one way to do that is the bisexual way where the LIs are bisexuals unless you think that one bisexual LI means 2 romances. But because you were concerned about the amount of LIs then this way is a good way to decrease the mount of LIs while giving people options.

[DraGGon2k]

What is mature and complex relationship? Relationship with Anderson or with Chakwas? Can you give me an example?

 

I thought the relationship with Morrigan was good because she kinda remained mysterious and (for me at least) it had a dramatic ending. As opposed to for example the "Hihi we're holding hands :)" fanfiction-level romance with Josephine. Or immature stuff like "Riding the bull" or "Hi I'm Diana Allers and I'm here to have sex with you".

 

As others said, actions and attitudes should have consequences on the possibiltiies. Then a room that is completely unexplored is the "post-relationship"-area. Like what if it turns out the person cheated with you on his husband/wife at home? What if he/she's conflicted about something else? What if suddenly the person turns all distant for some reason? Another thing would be relationships forming within the crew itself, a bit like EDI and Joker, just less cringeworthy. That would maybe help get rid of the feeling of "It's all about you and only you, space jesus/hand of god".

 

I really hope ME4 will be a more personal, yet more complex story/attitude instead of the "you're the only saviour of the world against this huge big evil that threatens us all"-bioware cliche.

[Abelas Forever!]

I liked IB romance. Allthough in the begining you had to agree quite many times that you really liked to "ride a bull" before anything happened. It was quite weird because that was what I wanted Anyway I think it was made that way so that people wouldn't accidentaly do it. It's true that there isn't  female LI like Morrigan in DAI. But then again there is Solas who is in a way like Morrigan romance except that there isn't as much romantic content with him.

If you you are not in a romantic relationship with Tali or Garrus then they start a romantic relationship with each others. Gabby and Kenneth can also start romantic relationship and it's possible to see them kissing.
 

[Degrees1991]

Well I wanted Wrex with my Fem Shepard but I don't think Wrex is into Humans a shame really. They're good friends though.

[General TSAR]

I wanted Gianna Parasini for a love interest

She was pretty damn awesome, but of course BioWare did not include her in ME3 because reasons. 

 

Speaking of awesome potential Love Interests that got screwed over by BW, I would have loved to have Emily Wong as our war correspondent instead of you-know-who. 

[Han Shot First]

I definitely agree.  There needs to be more conflict between companions, and more locking out of romances and friendships based on what you do and what you say.

 

A great example is Fenris in DA2.  A former slave, owned by a Tevinter mage, who openly and actively hates magic and magic users.  Maybe he's bisexual, but you should under no circumstances be able to romance him if you're a mage.  He hates everything you are.  If you're a mage, he should be openly critical of you at least, and you should have to work like a dog just to keep him from bailing on you.

 

In an ME example, giving Veetor over to Cerberus at Freedom's Progress should lock you out of romance with Tali.  She hates Cerberus and you're basically turning one of her people over to them for "interrogation."  There should be no notification of this, but should you try to romance her, you should get a "I just can't trust you" response.  There are other examples of this throughout the games, for all of the other romances. 

 

Great examples.

 

Another would be Leliana in DA:O. It is possible under circumstances for a Warden who defiled the Sacred Ashes to romance her, even though it is extremely out of character for Leliana to have any interest in the Warden at that point.

 

Having the main character's actions or dialogue potentially locking out some romance options, would go along way towards making it seem as if not every character on the team is interested in the protagonist. It would also make those LIs feel more like real people. 

[Abelas Forever!]

I think the problem with Fenris is that he joins you even if you are a mage and I don't see any reason why he would do that. But if he would join you despite the fact that you are a mage I would see that you could romance him even if you are a mage or a blood mage. Of course that would require you to condemn blood mages and mages who have done bad things and help elves and victims of slavers. In act 3 he has known you for 4 years so he has had plenty of time to change his opinion about you. So in this case the romance could start only in act 3. Almost same thing with Tali. If you had given Veetor to Cerberus I don't see any reason why she would help you so you shouldn't be able to recruite her if you had done that.

[themikefest]

I definitely agree.  There needs to be more conflict between companions, and more locking out of romances and friendships based on what you do and what you say.

That should also apply to the squadmates as well. 

[mrjack]

I can't get on board with non-crew romances personally. The only romance in a Bioware game that has felt truly is satisfying is between my Shepard and Kaidan. The Streve romance was sweet but those 2 extra goodbye scenes on Earth (at base camp and the Normandy pick up) make the squad romances so much more compelling. Samantha doesn't even get a vid call.

 

It seems to me that you don't like to be flirted with or constantly reminded that whoever you're talking to is bangable and I can kind of get that... or that the whole thing seems to gamey. I'm not a fan of metagame feedback like the heart icons or "Gertrude greatly approves..." messages popping up in DAI. I don't particularly like Liara coming on to Shepard in ME1. If I'm gonna romance a girl (which I do sometimes) I go for Ashley because she's not so in your face about it. Liara's like Conrad Verner with t!ts (sorry Liara fans). It's especially annoying for me when I want to romance Kaidan in 3 and stay completely unattached in 1 and 2 but I end up getting nijamanced in ME1, Miranda starts getting all touchy feely in ME2 after I save her sister and when I tell Jack I'm not interested she actually tells me to "F-ck off".  

 

I think this what you're after right? Someway to remove the romance content unless you specifically want to go looking for it? That's why you want it on hub worlds so the crew doesn't fawn over you or worship you or all fall in love with you all at the same time? I don't know how feasible or how wanted it is though. Some people love to be worshiped by their squad even if they don't reciprocate. Some like the odd flirt or just like to be chased.

 

In ME1 you can shut down any potential romance by being really rude in your first conversation with the 3 LIs. I think if there were maybe a subtle harmless flirt early in the game that you could politely, but in no uncertain terms, reject, it would solve that issue. A bit like when Diana Allers says:

 

"Careful Commander, you keep feeding me stories like this and I might start following you home".

and you can repsond,

"I think we're just fine in front of the camera."

 

It's polite but firm and she just laughs the whole thing off as a misunderstanding. There's no weirdness about it and it's over, no mention of it ever again. They could do something similar with squad mates I guess.

[goishen]

If you like cheating then I suggest romancing Jacob.

 

 

I did romance Jacob once.  Once.  

 

"Youuuuuuuuu."  

 

Seriously?

 

Srsly?

[Abelas Forever!]

I did romance Jacob once.  Once.

 

"Youuuuuuuuu."  

 

Seriously?

 

Srsly?

??

[mrjack]

??

 

Yeah, I don't get it either.

[goishen]

I just remember Jacob saying something like you, "Look at you..." every single time I went to talk to him.   I could be remembering the "Youuuuuu..."  thing differently than it happened, but I remember never ever wanting to romance Jacob ever again.

[KaiserShep]

I just remember Jacob saying something like you, "Look at you..." every single time I went to talk to him.   I could be remembering the "Youuuuuu..."  thing differently than it happened, but I remember never ever wanting to romance Jacob ever again.

 

Lol, interacting with Jacob as FemShep never did go over well XD