155 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonPogo]

So I know this must have been brought up allot already but it is a horrible choice. In my current game I have done the Hinterlands and the Exalted Plains. But now there is next to no benafit to going back and doing the storm coast or the area where the Avaar kidnap your men. I get next to no exp for it and weak gear. We should not be punished for doing areas out of some arbitrary order. By all means keep the Dragons and bosses strong but trash mobs and gear should level with you so doing an area is not just a chore to get what little story and power it has to offer.

[Abyss108]

Nope, completely disagree. Level scaling is awful and makes no sense. Why should random wolves get stronger because I killed some extra giants in a different country? What's the point in levelling up if everything else levels up? I may as well stay level 1 so the enemies are weaker too.

[9TailsFox]

Agree.Crafting armour already makes you OP level not scaling makes it even worse.

[Lilithor]

Thanks OP, someone needed to say that.

[Rawgrim]

Nope, completely disagree. Level scaling is awful and makes no sense. Why should random wolves get stronger because I killed some extra giants in a different country? What's the point in levelling up if everything else levels up? I may as well stay level 1 so the enemies are weaker too.

 

This.

[happy_daiz]

I disagree.

[Gileadan]

The problem is not that there's no level scaling, the problem is that there's so little variation in enemy levels. Dragons aside, every map is smooth sailing, without any challenge spike that might make you want to come back later. And since there's way more enemies to kill than you need to advance to a particular map's difficulty, you can't help but outlevel everything unless you skip just the right amount of side content - which can't be a satisfying workaround really.

 

Balancing the challenge level of gameplay is a fine art that is not just about what level of creatures are placed where, but also how much of an effect a level difference actually has in combat mechanics. Generally, the more of an effect level difference has, the less "level wiggle room" there is for placing creatures, because said level difference will contribute more to the overall challenge level then, diminishing the effects of player and character skill and equipment.

 

When "no level scaling" was first announced, people expected punishing difficulty and complained. It turned out to be the opposite, and people complain. And I get why - it gets tedious to mow down hordes of losers who barely give you a grazing hit for next to no XP.  No level scaling was a good idea that could have done with a better implementation - but I imagine that would have required a ton of balance testing. The strengths of no level scaling were barely used, but its weaknesses sure came through.

[JasonPogo]

Yes doing two areas makes you out level half the game. That is SO fun....

[Winged Silver]

I think having 'Nightmare' zones would have made more sense. Like have the majority of each map be its own set level range that you eventually outlevel. Cool. But then maybe have a zone within the map that's impossible for you to successfully explore (easily) until you've progressed. For best implementation, it probably wouldn't necessarily be crucial to the main story, but might have some cool loot or side missions.

 

This might give some incentive towards revisiting places, and could provide players looking for a challenge different content to do. It also allows the rewarding of players who've put the effort into leveling up, without necessarily making the entire game really annoying to get through as you level (like OP bears? No thank you).

[luna1124]

I agree with the OP. I think the main enemies should level with you. Not so much the wildlife.. but main enemies. I figure if the enemies can make you use potions etc.. you should get xp from them.

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

Nope, completely disagree. Level scaling is awful and makes no sense. Why should random wolves get stronger because I killed some extra giants in a different country? What's the point in levelling up if everything else levels up? I may as well stay level 1 so the enemies are weaker too.

The point in levelling up is to build and develop a character while still being able to be challenged by whatever or whomever it is you encounter. If you're able to stroll leisurely through 80% of the game map without breaking a sweat (figuratively speaking) because all the hostiles are no longer in your league as you've leveled well past them, then where's the enjoyment in that? In any game with level-scaling, the enemies may keep to your level but you in turn are accumulating more skills and better equipment. There's a big difference between a level 1 character vs a level 1 mob and a level 20 character facing that same mob again which is also now at level 20, because 19 levels later, you've got more skills at your disposal. More options. More strategies to employ. But you're still facing something that can stand a chance against you, which is good.

Far worse is to not have level-scaling and build the hell of out a character to a point where you're very pleased with him/here, except now you have to go out of your way to find a decent fight.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If I've put a bunch of effort into building the character so he's effective in combat, I don't want the game to punish me for that by making the combat tougher. I want rewards, not punishment.

Combat getting easier is that reward. That's what I want. I think DAI has done this really well.

Imagine if the real world worked like level-scaling. "Good job, Jim! As a reward for all your hard work, I'm going to cut your salary to make your life that much more of a struggle. Congratulations!"

No, level-scaling is rife with perverse incentives.

[Lunatic Lace]

I would honestly just love for there to be a larger variety of enemy levels/types in each area instead of everything scaling. Going back to old stomping grounds to take on foes that you simply couldn't handle earlier in the game would be fun.

I also absolutely detest the fact that I don't get exp for certain enemies if I'm leveled, because that doesn't always mean those enemies aren't difficult.

[Rawgrim]

The point in levelling up is to build and develop a character while still being able to be challenged by whatever or whomever it is you encounter. If you're able to stroll leisurely through 80% of the game map without breaking a sweat (figuratively speaking) because all the hostiles are no longer in your league as you've leveled well past them, then where's the enjoyment in that? In any game with level-scaling, the enemies may keep to your level but you in turn are accumulating more skills and better equipment. There's a big difference between a level 1 character vs a level 1 mob and a level 20 character facing that same mob again which is also now at level 20, because 19 levels later, you've got more skills at your disposal. More options. More strategies to employ. But you're still facing something that can stand a chance against you, which is good.

Far worse is to not have level-scaling and build the hell of out a character to a point where you're very pleased with him/here, except now you have to go out of your way to find a decent fight.

 

They should have made areas more difficult, then. And added tougher opponents.

 

One way to do this is to give enemies access to the same abilities you and your companions get. The whole game was basically fights against enemies that had no arsenal. Its easy to win a fight when you are the only one who gets to have "a gun".

[AlanC9]

If I've put a bunch of effort into building the character so he's effective in combat, I don't want the game to punish me for that by making the combat tougher. I want rewards, not punishment.

Remember that a fair number of players don't consider unchallenging combat to be a reward. It's a reward for the character, but not necessarily the player.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I would honestly just love for there to be a larger variety of enemy levels/types in each area instead of everything scaling. Going back to old stomping grounds to take on foes that you simply couldn't handle earlier in the game would be fun.

This is absolutely correct. The Hinterlands is really the only area that does this. Maybe Emerald Graves.

[Lilacs]

If I've put a bunch of effort into building the character so he's effective in combat, I don't want the game to punish me for that by making the combat tougher. I want rewards, not punishment.

Combat getting easier is that reward. That's what I want. I think DAI has done this really well.

Imagine if the real world worked like level-scaling. "Good job, Jim! As a reward for all your hard work, I'm going to cut your salary to make your life that much more of a struggle. Congratulations!"

No, level-scaling is rife with perverse incentives.

 

^^ I'm adding my voice to yours, Sylvius. I completely agree. One aspect of an RPG is leveling up. A character starts as a rookie, with barely enough experience, and throughout his/her journey, she amasses experiences that strengthen her/him morally, spiritually and physically. 

 

The joy I receive as a player comes from first of all: creating a character via the character creator--choosing the right look. Next is on distributing attributes points. Selecting the race is also important for me because certain races do provide certain bonuses. The background adds a lot to how I play my character.  My character at first is inexperienced, a blank slate. She enters the world and begins to shape it according to her belief, to her view. She picks and chooses side-quests carefully. As she does so, she is becoming stronger, more experienced. She levels up, and as the player, I'm shaping her to fit my vision for that character. 

 

 

She is moving from area to area or zone to zone and each zone she finds challenges. In Dragon Age: Inquisition, those challenges come from dragons and occasional bandits. The zones provide the levels. They are there for her to experience at any time if she so chooses knowing that doing so can cause instant death. If she does venture further and fails, she could always come back later to have a rematch when she is stronger, but that won't stop her from being who she is: an inquisitive Inquisitor. xD

 

 

What some players are asking here is for redesign of the game construct.  The zones in Dragon Age: Inquisition are already pre-made. A player can advance linearly or nonlinearly.  It is the player's choice. Either way, there is enough challenge for the player. They be dragons. =).  The dragons in Dragon Age: Inquisition do provide quite a challenge that’s fun!  Nonetheless, the reason some players might feel unchallenged at the moment is due to lack of people, consequently  lack of monsters and enemies in the world of Dragon Age: Inquisition.  When people and towns are added via DLCs and expansions, this will solve some of those complaints that some players have.

 

 

I just started playing the new DLC (Jaws of Hakkon) for Dragon Age: Inquisition . It is quite challenging and satisfying for me (players can up or downgrade the difficulty level for a harder challenge). I'm at the very beginning though. However, I shan't derail this thread. I will post my review for the DLC on my Blog. But suffice to say, BioWare is listening.  Hope is alive and well. =)

 

 

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

They should have made areas more difficult, then. And added tougher opponents.

Or level-scaling.

No thanks to "You must be this tall to go on this ride" difficulty zoning. This isn't an MMO.

I want to be able to go anywhere within a game's world and be able to find a decent fight irrespective of what level my character is. I don't want wholesale chunks of the map to be inappropriate to my character because I'm either too high or to low-level for it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Remember that a fair number of players don't consider unchallenging combat to be a reward. It's a reward for the character, but not necessarily the player.

I know that, but they don't seem to know the opposite.

So I present the opposing view with equivalent justification to show how baseless the initial assertion was.

Also, I'm roleplaying. What the player wants doesn't matter. Only the character's preferences matter.

[Endurium]

While I don't really care for level scaling, or reverse level scaling (GW2), I do feel my character should get some measure of XP for everything they kill. Part of being a good martial artist, for example, is much repetition. So if I'm killing everything that moves (repetitive combat) I should get some XP for it, even if only 1 point for stuff much lower level. I mod, when possible, non-scaling game XP tables so I always get some XP for the things attacking me.

 

Then again, combat is not what I care about most in video games, even though most games have us solving disputes, disagreements, and differences of opinion with violence.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Or level-scaling.

No thanks to "You must be this tall to go on this ride" difficulty zoning. This isn't an MMO.

I want to be able to go anywhere within a game's world and be able to find a decent fight irrespective of what level my character is. I don't want wholesale chunks of the map to be inappropriate to my character because I'm either too high or to low-level for it.

Because all parts of the world are equivalently challenging all of the time?

That doesn't make for a very believable world.

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

Because all parts of the world are equivalently challenging all of the time?

That doesn't make for a very believable world.

If your believable world is a world where 80% or more of it may as well no longer exist for practical purposes because there's no longer anything in it that can test your maxed out character that you've put much work into, then you can have that world.

[Wulfram]

Level scaling is a fairly ugly bodge to fix nonsensical level systems.  But since Bioware didn't do anything to make the level system less silly, removing level scaling was a mistake.

 

A situation where the Right Hand of the Divine and Hero of Orlais is a far worse fighter than a bunch of random bandits because she hasn't done enough grinding does not add to the believability of the world

 

A better solution would be to make the power scale less ridiculous so that enemies can be more or less appropriate challenges for a good spread of levels, and where enemies and characters can thus be assigned levels that actually make sense rather than being assigned based on the place in the story the character is supposed to encounter them.

[coldwetn0se]

I prefer having no level scaling, for most of the same reasons that others have mentioned. However, I do get how tiring it can be slashing through easy mobs, and not get anything in return. I don't know how something like this would work in Dragon Age, but something "akin" to the vocation leveling in Dragon's Dogma, could be a way to gain something, from the low level enemy types.

In DD, you could accumulate both XP and DP. XP is pretty much similar to how it works in DAI. DP (Discipline Points), went towards leveling up your vocations (the myriad of classes and the skills/augments you could unlock). The interesting bit, was that the way that DP was calculated, the lower level mobs/enemy types, gave a better percentage of DP. This meant that if you were wanting to spend time leveling up your vocations, without over-leveling all the available areas, you can do that by engaging low level enemies (en masse, definitely helped ), and gets payback for the time and energy put in, in the form of DP. What made that a rather fun mechanic, was that if I knew and area was more difficult with high(er) level enemies and bosses, I now had a better set of options to work with, thanks to the DP I received. BUT, I wasn't over-leveled. These harder zones, therefore, still felt like a challenge, but with more choices in strategy.

Just some thoughts.

[fchopin]

Completely disagree op, if the game had level scaling i would have stopped playing a long time ago.
It would have been completely pointless in crafting anything in the game and would have stopped doing quests as they would be pointless.